IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-04-27

Time	Nick	Message
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09:10	tenplus1	hi folks
10:03	shivajiva	morning tenplus o/
10:04	tenplus1	hi shiva, hows things
10:04	shivajiva	good thanks, things are looking up :)
10:04	tenplus1	glad to hear :)
10:05	shivajiva	have you enjoyed being off work?
10:05	tenplus1	I updated a few mods earlier and added settingtypes.txt to them so you can edit .conf settings within the SETTINGS tab
10:05	tenplus1	yeah, am finding time to do many things now
10:05	shivajiva	that sounds sweet, didn't know you could do that
10:06	tenplus1	krock suggested it yesterday for Pova, thought I'd do the same for my other mods
10:07	shivajiva	how long has that been possible?
10:07	tenplus1	0.4.16 stable I think
10:09	shivajiva	heh good to know it can be done :)
10:10	tenplus1	there's prolly a lot of new features I'm unaware of in 0.4.16 still...
10:10	tenplus1	let alone 0.5x which I haven't tested yet
10:11	shivajiva	guess we need to scour the documentation for the release and keep a closer eye on 0.5 changes =)
10:12	tenplus1	0.4.17 has some good stuff added as well, but few ppl report issues
10:15	shivajiva	http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
10:17	tenplus1	? 0.4.17 isnt on there
10:17	shivajiva	I thought 0.4.17 was a mistake
10:18	tenplus1	0.4.17 will be the next release with some of the 0.5x additions and fixes added
10:18	tenplus1	0.5x is total dev for new features...
10:21	rubenwardy	some = 1 or 2
10:21	tenplus1	hi ruben
10:24	tenplus1	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6542
10:28	tenplus1	I cant even find any 0.4.17 builds to test
10:30	sfan5	there's some on my builds page
10:30	tenplus1	hey sfan, checking now
10:30	tenplus1	for linux ?
10:31	sfan5	winddows
10:31	sfan5	+d
10:31	tenplus1	buuuu... lol...
10:31	sfan5	..
10:31	sfan5	you can always compile it yourself on linux
10:32	tenplus1	is it 0.4-backport thats officially 0.4.17 ?
10:32	shivajiva	tenplus doesn't compile builds does he?
10:32	tenplus1	not on this old thing :P
10:32	tenplus1	my net-top is optimized for desktop use only, not compiling
10:33	shivajiva	ten if you need a specific rev I could try but what works for me may not run on your system
10:34	tenplus1	no worries, am just checking 0.4- backport to see what changes are in there...
10:46	tenplus1	most of the lua changes I'm using anyhoo with mod overrides :D
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11:17	tenplus1	o/ fixer
11:26	Fixer	\o
11:28		Krock joined #minetest-hub
11:28	Krock	hi tenplus1
11:28	tenplus1	hey krock :)
11:29	tenplus1	the new item_entity.lua code makes it harder to implement water flowing for items
11:29	Krock	!tell shivajiva You should consider updating the 3d_armor mod on your skyblocks server
11:29	MinetestBot	Krock: yeah, yeah
11:30	Krock	tenplus1, well yes but at least it's now better structured and supports slippery nodes (0.5.0-dev)
11:31	tenplus1	yeah, saw taht...
11:31	tenplus1	will squeezze it in somehow tho :D
11:32	Krock	after all you can still overwrite the entire on_step function entirely
11:32	Krock	but that will make it harder to update later
11:32	tenplus1	I have the 0.5x version of it and will add additional features like before (water flow, move items to space if block placed on top)
11:36	tenplus1	fixed :) w00t!
11:44	tenplus1	slides on ice, deletes in void, burns in lava, water pushes items and if block placed on top of item it moves to closest air block :)
11:44	tenplus1	nom time :D
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11:48	tenplus1	hey raven
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11:54	tenplus1	wb
11:54	Raven262	Hi ten
11:54	tenplus1	:P
11:55	Krock	!tell shivajiva The creative inventory leak exists there too. I suggest patching asap :)
11:55	MinetestBot	Krock: I'll pass that on when shivajiva is around
11:55	tenplus1	leak ?
12:05	Krock	free items from the infinite creative inventory
12:05	Krock	for everybody. was fixed months ago
12:06	tenplus1	so certain servers arent running the udpated version ?
12:07	* rubenwardy	sighs
12:07	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=317365#p317365
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12:07	tenplus1	enrico causing hassle on other servers now
12:07	tenplus1	hi longer
12:07	longerstaff13	Hi
12:08	Krock	tenplus1, well yeah. it's not contained in the last stable so there are surely many unpatched servers there
12:09	Krock	s/s there/s online/
12:09	Krock	tenplus1, they're on #minetest btw :P
12:09	tenplus1	who is, enrico ?
12:10	Krock	rubenwardy, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vgsccj-2ANU/VTFnvs4dLdI/AAAAAAAAPcE/IizjXwM4UPo/s1600/facebook-thumbs-star-wars-luke-skywalker.jpg
12:10	Krock	tenplus1, yes
12:10	tenplus1	glad I dont go in there :P
12:10	tenplus1	had enough of him on Xanadu
12:10	rubenwardy	he literally said "Hi"
12:10	Krock	Quality player
12:12	tenplus1	heh
12:29	tenplus1	github.com/tenplus1/builtin_item updated
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12:30	tenplus1	hi mister
12:30	Mr_Pardison	ahoy
12:30	ThomasMonroe	:P
12:30	tenplus1	hi thomas
12:30	ThomasMonroe	hi tenplus1
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12:52	tenplus1	hi aerozoic
12:52	aerozoic	wazup tenplus1
12:52	tenplus1	o/
13:01	shivajiva	thanks krock :D
13:01	MinetestBot	shivajiva: Apr-27 11:29 UTC <Krock> You should consider updating the 3d_armor mod on your skyblocks server
13:01	MinetestBot	shivajiva: Apr-27 11:55 UTC <Krock> The creative inventory leak exists there too. I suggest patching asap :)
13:39	Krock	np shivajiva. The latter one can be patched using the backport-0.4 MTG branch or applying the patch manually
13:41	shivajiva	think I'll go for applying the patch manually at this stage, don't want to update everything just yet
13:48	shivajiva	presumably this is #1840
13:48	ShadowBot	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1840 -- Singlenode: Failed to resolve 'mapgen_water_source'
13:57	Krock	yes, game#1840
13:57	ShadowBot	https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1840 -- Creative: Prevent unauthorized item access by SmallJoker
13:59	shivajiva	heh wondered how to do that :P
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14:37	Mr_Pardison	hai
14:37	tenplus1	hi mister :P
14:38	ircSparky	is minetest.find_path heavy on ram or CPU?
14:39	rubenwardy	more RAM
14:39	rubenwardy	as you need to read the map, and also store an open list
14:39	tenplus1	has error message been fixed in chat for pathfinding when it cant find one ?
14:39	rubenwardy	but it's blocking
14:44	ircSparky	do you know offhand if open_ai is much heavier than mobs redo?
14:45	tenplus1	open_ai works well :) but is very simple... mobs redo api has many more features to use but can be tailored to run fast
14:46	ircSparky	does mobs redo have advanced pathfinding?
14:46	ircSparky	open_ai disnt have any hostile mobs, and thats what i need, but I need mobs that are harder to loose
14:46	tenplus1	yes, has 2 level pathfinding... level 1 finds player through mazes... level 2 breaks walls/builds up to player etc
14:47	ircSparky	does i tneed to be enabled? or just the version I have dosnt haveit
14:48	tenplus1	it's there, in mob registration you set pathfinding level
14:49	ircSparky	ok
14:49	ircSparky	ill try it out
14:50	tenplus1	if you get stuck check out the example .lua's for monsters and animals, or look at api.txt
14:50	ircSparky	do most monsters haveleve 1?
14:50	tenplus1	some of the smarter one's... the majority use no pathfinding and dumb directional to follow player
14:52	ircSparky	ok which ones are the smart ones? :P
14:53	tenplus1	sand/stone monster and oerkki
14:54	ircSparky	I mean, ill mostly have zombies, but zombies are usually know how to properly turn a corner :P
14:54	ircSparky	kk
14:54	tenplus1	we have a mob called "Evil Bonny" on Xanadu that has level 2 pathfinding and kills everyone she's near
14:58	Mr-Pardison	tenplus1: what kind of weapons are there on Xanadu?
14:58	rubenwardy	contributions welcome to fix the engine pathfinder
14:59	rubenwardy	also, would be awesome to make a parallel vesion
14:59	tenplus1	defaults, crystal, lava pick, super axe
15:00	Mr-Pardison	no spears?
15:01	tenplus1	bows n arrows
15:01	tenplus1	snowballs :D eggs
15:03	tenplus1	players can use monsters as weapons also... sneaky players
15:06	Mr-Pardison	sounds like something I would do :)
15:07	tenplus1	ehehe
15:08	tenplus1	I made 5x sky islands with a water source and a different tree for each... so far 4 players are trying to survive on them :D
15:08	Mr-Pardison	is that 5th island claimed yet?
15:09	tenplus1	nah, u want ?
15:09	Mr-Pardison	sure.
15:10	Mr-Pardison	try a survival server other than DL (need to diversify my experiences).
15:11	tenplus1	am there now if you wanna join I'll to ya
15:11	Mr-Pardison	k
15:12	Mr-Pardison	what's the port for it? (my client refuses to load any other server names than what I've joined)
15:13	Mr-Pardison	nvr mind.
15:13	tenplus1	lol
15:27	rdococ	Yayâ„¢
15:30	tenplus1	hi rdococ
15:34	ircSparky	so, the mobs_monsters are able to follow a player through a maze?
15:35	ircSparky	or you need smart_mobs?
15:35	tenplus1	mobs redo api has pathfinding that allows a mob to find a player through mazes...
15:35	ircSparky	hm
15:35	tenplus1	but of a set size :)
15:35	tenplus1	dont want them super OP
15:36	ircSparky	yea
15:37	ircSparky	https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=FUZ0GOWFj8I
15:37	ircSparky	they dont seem to be working the best for me
15:37	ircSparky	idk why
15:37	tenplus1	lol
15:38	rdococ	Huh, I didn't know Lua 5.4 was ut
15:38	ircSparky	um
15:38	rdococ	s/ut/out/
15:38	ircSparky	wups
15:38	tenplus1	only attacking mobs use pathfinding... so make a glass maze 3x high so it cant jump over... punch sand monster outside and quikly go inside, but leave an entrance for them to find
15:38	rdococ	I'm gonna read its changelog
15:38	ircSparky	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUZ0GOWFj8I
15:39	ircSparky	ah ok
15:39	ircSparky	lemme try that
15:39	rdococ	tenplus1: I think passive mobs could do with pathfinding too
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15:39	rdococ	well, some of them, anyway
15:40	tenplus1	hi twoelk
15:40	twoelk	o/
15:40	rdococ	Also, when you attack a chicken, other chickens should be spawned that attack you like in TLoZ :P
15:40	tenplus1	once pathfinding and line of sight functions improve then all mobs could ise them
15:40	tenplus1	lol rdococ, chickens and rabbits runaway from player, unless you are owner
15:40	rdococ	tenplus1: so chickens are chicken?
15:41	rdococ	There could be a rare deer mob that drops cool stuff, and an even rarer unicorn mob that drops a unicorn horn
15:41	rdococ	Both would run away from players if they don't hold sneak
15:42	* twoelk	wonders wether mobs could deteckt nodes placed by players and avoid these as if they smelled dangerous as animals may do in real life
15:43	ircSparky	so when do sand monsters and such go into pathfinding mode?
15:44	tenplus1	when they attack a player and a timer goes off saying it'd been idle too long
15:45	rdococ	Certain mobs could be drawn towards artificial light sources
15:46	twoelk	bsssssssszzzzzzz
15:46	rdococ	twoelk: Imagine a horde of zombies that sees someone's torchlight in the distance . . .
15:46	ircSparky	ok
15:46	ircSparky	sounds would be nice too
15:46	tenplus1	yeah... was thining of redoing walking cycle to move towards certain blocks/light etc
15:46	ircSparky	if they could hear sounds
15:46	ircSparky	yea the maze test worked
15:47	twoelk	ah, my circling sharky jellyfish idea arises again
15:47	tenplus1	:P
15:48	rdococ	Zombies would be attracted to artificial light sources as they have a higher chance of finding players there, those weird desert skeleton things could maybe be able to 'smell' blocks that are artificial and don't normally spawn in their biome (e.g. wood)
15:48	rdococ	Hehe, that would be funny because skeletons and probably weird desert skeleton things don't have noses
15:49	tenplus1	am trying to think of a way to spawn mobs without using ABM's...
15:49	twoelk	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=241321#p241321
15:50	tenplus1	ooh jellyfish :P
15:50	rdococ	Maybe zombies or jellyfish could change their behavior based on whether they're alone or in a horde. E.G. a lone zombie probably would run away from an armored player, but a horde would move towards them
15:50	tenplus1	we have fish and sharks handy for now, might be worth adding those nd turtles
15:54	ircSparky	would it be heavy for each mob to check line of sight every second or half second?
15:55	rdococ	Odd, I can't tell if Lua 5.4 is out or not
15:55	twoelk	some sort of situation related herd behaviour that can react to changes would be really cool, although pretty creepy as it might get close to resembling an ai
15:55	rubenwardy	no
15:55	rubenwardy	line of sight is pretty optimised
15:55	rdococ	Each mob should store a detailed neural network
15:56	ircSparky	totally
15:56	ircSparky	ok
15:57	tenplus1	if only :P
15:57	rdococ	GMO crops mod: you'd be able to splice DNA and create new crops
15:57	ircSparky	tenplus1, should i try to make the level 1 pathfinding use line of sight instead of a timer? or maybe make a new level? or do you want to code it yourself?
15:57	twoelk	can one querry how many mobs are active at any given time on a running map?
15:59	tenplus1	api uses line of sight already
15:59	ircSparky	oh, i thought you said it used a timer :P
16:00	rdococ	yay, line of sightâ„¢
16:00	tenplus1	it uses all sorts, line of sight for attack and pathfinding
16:03	ircSparky	hm
16:03	ircSparky	do you know what the main difference between it and open_ai pathfinding system is?
16:05	tenplus1	open_ai pathfinds towards certain blocks only, not players
16:06	ircSparky	so, the block the player is standing on?
16:06	ircSparky	or
16:06	ircSparky	in
16:07	tenplus1	open_ai has sheep for instance look for grass blocks or wheat nodes to move around... it heads towards areas a sheep is at home :P
16:07	ircSparky	ah
16:07	tenplus1	in mobs redo it's up to the mob where it wants to go, only using pathfinding to find player
16:07	ircSparky	well most of the npcs also follow players when they hold dry grass
16:07	tenplus1	but I was gonna add a way to head towards certain blocks in api at some point
16:09	ircSparky	you must not have seem my comparison video?
16:09	tenplus1	you made a video ?
16:09	ircSparky	i mean, I guess its not very polite of me to just paste youtube links
16:09	ircSparky	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUZ0GOWFj8I
16:09	ircSparky	im not rickrolling you though :P
16:09	tenplus1	heh
16:10	ircSparky	the first time works for the stone monster
16:10	ircSparky	not the rest though
16:10	ircSparky	and i have one trying to get to me in that exact spot right now :P
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16:12	tenplus1	hi Jordach
16:12	tenplus1	ircSparky: pathfinding needs work :P yeh
16:12		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:12	tenplus1	wb mister
16:13	ircSparky	yea
16:13	Mr_Pardison	gracias.
16:13	ircSparky	but of course, open_ai has the best pathfinding ive ever seen
16:14	ircSparky	so it might be unfair to compare with mobs_redo
16:14	Mr_Pardison	but have you seen closed_ai? :P
16:14	ircSparky	:P
16:15	tenplus1	lol
16:15	ircSparky	sometimes they get stuck in the middle of a open area though
16:15	ircSparky	and it would be nice if they could get through doors
16:15	tenplus1	yeah doors kinda suck for that
16:16	ircSparky	does find_path treat them as solid nodes?
16:16	tenplus1	yeah
16:16	tenplus1	pathfinding really needs a list of nodes that it can ignore (doors, slabs etc)
16:16	Mr_Pardison	IMO if they went through doors, then that would defeat the purpose of them at night
16:16		Darcidride_ joined #minetest-hub
16:16	ircSparky	yea
16:17	ircSparky	and "open" doors can be used to close a different direction
16:17	tenplus1	hi Darcidride_
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16:18	tenplus1	wb fixer
16:21	Fixer	ty
16:21	tenplus1	open_ai has a newer framework which is really good... mobs redo still has compatibility with the older simple mobs framework
16:21	tenplus1	if features could be ported across :))
16:22	ircSparky	ah, nice
16:22	ircSparky	I think its the most used mob framework
16:23	tenplus1	for ease of use, yes... features, yes... but I still want it to be better
16:23		benrob0329 joined #minetest-hub
16:23	tenplus1	hi benrob
16:23	benrob0329	Hi tenplus1
16:24	tenplus1	o//
16:24	benrob0329	I definitely didn't stay up way too late last night making this thing https://gitlab.com/benrob0329/simpdown
16:25	tenplus1	heh
16:25	benrob0329	But hey, now I don't have to write my website in html
16:25	tenplus1	even better :P
16:26	tenplus1	back soon, making noms :P
16:29		Krock joined #minetest-hub
16:31	tenplus1	wb
16:31	Krock	ty
16:35	rdococ	Lua 5.4 is in developyayâ„¢
16:36	tenplus1	oooh
16:36	tenplus1	mt still doesnt use 5.3 yet
16:37	rdococ	I'm pretty sure Minetest doesn't use 5.2 yet, nevermind 5.3
16:38	tenplus1	ehehe
16:38	rubenwardy	Lua 5.2+ sucks
16:38	tenplus1	how come ?
16:38	rubenwardy	No LuaJIT support
16:38	tenplus1	buuuu
16:39	rdococ	does Lua 4.0 have LuaJIT?
16:40	sofar	luajit is only 5.1 I think
16:40		Krock joined #minetest-hub
16:55	benrob0329	isn't that more the fault of LuaJIT, and not Lua?
16:59	tenplus1	they wont admit to it :D
16:59	rdococ	X sucks because Y refuses to support itâ„¢
17:00	rdococ	Totally makes senseâ„¢
17:01	rubenwardy	LuaJIT hasn't got any maintainers anyway
17:01	tenplus1	o.O open_ai spawning is intruiging... it has a 70 second timer which then loops through every player and then loops through every mob to do a find_nodes_in_area(20 radius), choose random node and spawn mob...
17:01	rubenwardy	and for me, LuaJIT is Lua
17:01	tenplus1	you'd think that 5.3 would do away with separate luajit and just have an option to enable
17:02	rdococ	rubenwardy: So for you, Lua has no maintainers? :P
17:02	rubenwardy	basically
17:02	rdococ	hm, does Minetest require luajit?
17:03	benrob0329	No
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17:03	tenplus1	o/ longer
17:03	benrob0329	In fact, numerous problems tend to occur when its compiled with LuaJIT on heavy servers
17:03	tenplus1	the 2mb limit ?
17:04	rubenwardy	that's because GC64 isn't stable yet
17:04	Mr_Pardison	tenplus1: does the latest release of mobs_redo prevent mobs from glitching out through nodes?
17:04	longerstaff13	o/
17:04	Mr_Pardison	\o
17:05	tenplus1	it tries to... the mt engine itself has a glitch where entities use stepheight to glitch through solid walls
17:05	rdococ	I wonder if Minetest supports Lua 5.2+, seeing as it doesn't require LuaJIT
17:06	benrob0329	So using something that tends to crash the game, has very few maintainers, refuses to support new versions of the standard, and who's added speed boost does nothing for most mods is worth not supporting Lua 5.2+ ?
17:06	benrob0329	That sounds like some bs right there, ngl
17:06	rubenwardy	doesn't crash that much
17:06	rubenwardy	if your mods aren't bloated
17:07	benrob0329	Unless you use one if the heavy mods its supposed to help make faster
17:07	rubenwardy	I'd rather have the 64x speed boost
17:07	rdococ	> does nothing for most mods
17:07	rdococ	> 64x speed boost
17:07	rdococ	does not compute
17:07	benrob0329	For what, defining nodes?
17:07	rdococ	globalsteps, ABMs
17:07	rubenwardy	heavy on memory :P
17:08	tenplus1	how do I tell minetest to use lua isntead of luajit ?
17:08	rdococ	(although, to be fair you should be avoiding globalsteps whenever possible anyway)
17:08	benrob0329	ABMs are used rarely anymore, and globalsteps need to be lightweight anyways
17:08	benrob0329	tenplus1: compile time option
17:09	tenplus1	whats different between using globalstep and mintest.after to run same function ?
17:09	tenplus1	benrob0329: damn, was gonna test a game without jit to see
17:09	benrob0329	Globalstep is repeated every step
17:09	benrob0329	After is only repeated once
17:09	rdococ	^
17:09	benrob0329	Er, done once
17:09	rdococ	essentially
17:10	tenplus1	so even if I setup a globalstep with a 1 second timer wouldnt that help ?
17:10	rdococ	globalsteps don't have a timer parameter so if you want a timer you'll have to keep track of it yourself
17:10	benrob0329	It will only run the code once a second, but will repeat the check every step
17:10	rubenwardy	I've never had an OOM with LuaJIT
17:10	tenplus1	timer = 0 ; globalstep function ; timer = timer + dtime ; if timer < 1 then return end ; timer = 0 ; do something
17:11	rdococ	minetest.after is better for things that don't run every step or so, because it minimizes the number of function calls per step
17:11	benrob0329	after() just delays a function
17:11	rdococ	^
17:11	benrob0329	rubenwardy: tagged: WORKSFORME
17:11	rdococ	but you can define a function that uses minetest.after to call itself
17:11	rubenwardy	basically
17:11	rdococ	resulting in a loop
17:11	tenplus1	yeah, did that for stamina poisoning
17:12	benrob0329	Ive done it for smooth Alpha transitions :P
17:12	tenplus1	:P
17:12	rdococ	I like exhaustion poisoning (takes 1 point of exhaustion away every second or so) because it makes you less tired
17:13	rdococ	rubenwardy: hm, what do you think about a CTF map that takes place in space with planets? players would have to use their planet's resources to create bridges from planet to planet
17:13	rubenwardy	interesting
17:13	rubenwardy	maybe islands would be better
17:13	rdococ	but islands aren't in space
17:13	rubenwardy	or float lands
17:13	tenplus1	sounds a good idea, can you do planetoids with biomes ?
17:13	rubenwardy	MT can't do space
17:13	sofar	everything is in space, technically
17:13	benrob0329	Idea for sprint: you always sprint, but your speed decreases with stamina (and stamina with food)
17:13	rdococ	Floatlands might be a good compromise
17:14	rdococ	sofar: technicallyâ„¢
17:14	rubenwardy	you'd expect a vacuum and low G
17:14	tenplus1	lol
17:14	benrob0329	Technically everything is moving too
17:14	tenplus1	pova's base overrides can set gravity to a lower value :)
17:14	rdococ	benrob0329: technically everything can be said to be moving from one reference frame and not from its own reference frame
17:14	tenplus1	could wear say antigrav boots to compensate
17:14	rdococ	s/one/at least one/
17:14	rdococ	CTF space map: everyone suffocates repeatedly upon spawning
17:15	tenplus1	haha
17:15	benrob0329	Lol
17:15	Mr_Pardison	XD
17:15	tenplus1	brb
17:15	rdococ	rubenwardy: although, I wonder how low gravity would affect the game
17:16	rdococ	PvP would essentially have a third dimension to it as you have to work harder to aim up and down at the enemy
17:16	benrob0329	Eh, just jump over peopl
17:17	rdococ	They could jump up to you
17:17	benrob0329	We don't have collision thougb
17:17	rubenwardy	would be interesting
17:17	rubenwardy	Minetest won't like it though
17:17	rdococ	benrob0329: but then they can reach you to hit you
17:17	rubenwardy	maybe an underwater map would be cool too
17:17	rubenwardy	with gas bubbles
17:18	rubenwardy	and bases so far apart you need to build glass tunnels
17:18	Mr_Pardison	methane bubbles? :P
17:18	benrob0329	boom
17:18	rdococ	gas bubbles could be implemented as walk-thru translucent nodes
17:18	sofar	cosmic rays constantly bombarding players with radiation making them mutate slowly altering their physical properties randomly
17:19	benrob0329	Thats morbid, but also really cool sounding
17:19	sofar	it'll kill players over time, but they also might get stronger or faster
17:20	benrob0329	Or die instantly from radiation poisoning
17:20	rdococ	Or you get cancer and die slowly and painfully
17:20	sofar	instantly?
17:21	sofar	whatever happened to slow, painful deaths?
17:21	rdococ	I mentioned them
17:21	rdococ	;)
17:21	rubenwardy	cancer -> disables hp regen
17:21	benrob0329	cancer -> you get teleported to a Roblox server
17:22	Krock	cancer -> you're suddenly cured
17:22	Mr_Pardison	cancer -> discord.
17:22	Mr_Pardison	no wait.
17:23	Mr_Pardison	cancer -> fortnite -> hype
17:23	rdococ	lol
17:24	rdococ	When people say "XXX is cancer" without elaborating as to why, it bugs mwe
17:24	rdococ	s/mwe/me/
17:24	rdococ	for example, I don't think fortnite or roblox ever caused people to die slow painful deaths or caused cells to multiply out of control
17:24	rdococ	okay, roblox might have but idk about fortnite
17:25	Mr_Pardison	fortnite is all hype.
17:25	Mr_Pardison	ergo, cancer.
17:26	rdococ	I'm pretty sure fortnite is a game of some sort, meaning that it is not literally composed of hype. I think you're talking metaphorically, but I don't completely understand so can you elaborate a little further?
17:26	rubenwardy	fortnite is pretty fun though
17:26	rubenwardy	basically a rip off of CTF
17:26	tenplus1	seen it being played on yt, not bad
17:27	Mr_Pardison	I don't get ppls' obsession over it when it's just your basic build and fight game with fancy graphics and weapons.
17:28	rdococ	I'm looking on Wikipedia
17:28	rdococ	apparently Fortnite is a paid sandbox survival game while Battle Royale is a gamemode that can also be gotten for free as a standalone game?
17:29	rdococ	it wasn't acquired by Microsoft, so it's already better than YKW
17:31	tenplus1	Q. should mobs despawn when stepping on "ignore" node ?
17:32		rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub
17:32	rdococ	tenplus1: nah. the only way that could happen is if a mob was on top of an unloaded mapblock boundary and I don't think it should be removed just because the ground it's on isn't loaded yet
17:39	rubenwardy	huh
17:40	rubenwardy	I got 17.10 not 18.04
17:40	rubenwardy	odd
17:40	rdococ	I have 18.04
17:40	tenplus1	ditto
17:40	rdococ	well, xubuntu 18.04
17:40	rubenwardy	I ran do-release-upgrade, but it didn't give me 18.04. Hasn't it been released?
17:40	rdococ	speaking of which, I think 18.04 was released yesterday
17:40	rubenwardy	-d makes it find it
17:40	rubenwardy	odd
17:40	tenplus1	rubenwardy: sudo update-manager -d
17:41	rdococ	maybe look to see what the -d flag does
17:41	rubenwardy	this is on a server
17:41	rubenwardy	d means development version
17:41	tenplus1	and only works when current setup is up to date
17:44	rubenwardy	"The upgrade has aborted. The upgrade needs a total of 117 M free
17:44	rubenwardy	space on disk '/boot'. Please free at least an additional 35.5 M of
17:44	rubenwardy	disk space on '/boot'. You can remove old kernels using 'sudo apt
17:44	rubenwardy	autoremove' and you could also set COMPRESS=xz in
17:44	rubenwardy	/etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf to reduce the size of your
17:44	rubenwardy	initramfs. "
17:44	rubenwardy	ew
17:44	rubenwardy	oops
17:44	rubenwardy	stupid new lines
17:44	tenplus1	do you add your own /boot partition ?
17:45	rubenwardy	no, from host
17:45	rubenwardy	which is stupid for a server, as you'd expect to find a lot on /var/www
17:47	rubenwardy	/ also only has 15GB
17:47	rubenwardy	/home has 985GB
17:47	rubenwardy	was wondering why those lines weren't sending ^
17:47	tenplus1	eek... I set / to 50gb and the rest to /home
17:47	rubenwardy	that would be logical
17:49		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
17:50	tenplus1	wb raven
17:50	Raven262	ty ten
17:52	* rdococ	updates his operating systemâ„¢
17:53	tenplus1	Ubuntu 18.04 final release was yesterday :)
17:53	Krock	quick! distro upgrade!
17:54	* Mr_Pardison	levels up his distro
17:54	tenplus1	:)
17:54	rdococ	I'm a time traveller from the future
17:54	rdococ	Linux 5.0.0 is all the rage
17:56	rdococ	in 2030, GNU acquires Mojang from Microsoft at the end of an incredibly unlikely chain of events
17:57	tenplus1	lol
17:57	ircSparky	is Elon Musk the supreme leader of Mars?
17:57	Mr_Pardison	and how would that snowball start?
17:57	Mr_Pardison	ircSparky: one day he might be.
17:57	Mr_Pardison	but I'd take over and give it to the ppl for free :D
17:57	tenplus1	and Trump finally builds his wall.... on the moon
17:58	ircSparky	does he deport mexicans to the moon?
17:58	rdococ	a wall wouldn't work anyway
17:58	tenplus1	lol yeah... they'd just get a cheap flight to USA for holiday and not go back :P
17:58	rdococ	there are these magic white birds in the sky that can carry tons of people, they're called "airplanes"
17:59	ircSparky	yea we have those
17:59	rdococ	time to restartâ„¢
18:04	tenplus1	https://libreboot.org/
18:07	rdococ	I couldn't find installation instructions specific to my computer/its bootloader/I'm just stupid
18:07	sofar	MS doesn't sign the UEFI bootloader
18:07	sofar	MS signs the windows loader
18:08	sofar	and the MS pubkey is used by UEFI to validate that the windows loader was signed by it
18:08	rdococ	ah
18:08	sofar	but UEFI itself isn't signed
18:08	* rdococ	bashes his head against a wall
18:08	sofar	take out the keys from UEFI, and you're trusting nobody
18:08	sfan5	intel employee defends microsoft
18:08	sfan5	classy
18:08	sfan5	/s
18:08	sofar	troll
18:08	sofar	you know well how it works
18:09	rdococ	I have secure boot disabled on this laptop
18:09	sfan5	don't you see the /s I put
18:09	sofar	btw it's your hardware vendor that puts the UEFI firmware on the motherboard
18:09	sofar	I do, but I made sure others also know ;)
18:10	rdococ	I'm not that familiar with bootloaders
18:10	sofar	UEFI without secure boot is just fine, as long as you trust your motherboard firmware vendor
18:10	sofar	you can also put in your own keys
18:10	sofar	and prevent someone from possibly tampering with your OS
18:10	sofar	at least, you can detect it that way
18:12	sofar	btw most of UEFI is open source and you can see how it works (https://www.tianocore.org/)
18:12	rdococ	Unicorns
18:12	sofar	almost all EFI implementations are based on tianocore
18:13	rdococ	rubenwardy: are there size restrictions for CTF maps?
18:21	Calinou	â† proud user of disabled Secure Boot :p
18:21	tenplus1	lol, hi Cal
18:21	Calinou	thankfully, my hardware still lets me do it
18:22	Calinou	(there's reports of some motherboard models not allowing disabling Secure Boot, even on x86)
18:22	Calinou	my old laptop required putting an UEFI password first in order to disable Secure Boot
18:22	Calinou	the password I set was "123" :-)
18:23	rubenwardy	rdococ: 225 max
18:24	rubenwardy	225y225
18:24	tenplus1	am prolly 1x bios update away from uefi forever
18:24	rubenwardy	That's r < 115
18:25	rdococ	what about y?
18:26	rdococ	rubenwardy: what about y?
18:26	rubenwardy	Err, don't go mad
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18:27	Mr_Pardison	ty.
18:27	rubenwardy	It's usually smaller though
18:28	rdococ	I meant what 'y' is in '225y225'
18:28	rubenwardy	yeah
18:28	rdococ	I'm mad as in insane but not as in angry :P
18:29	rubenwardy	there's no coded limit unlike X and Z
18:29	tenplus1	y = 37.952
18:29	rubenwardy	but bigger values will increase load time
18:29	rubenwardy	so maybe max 200
18:29	rdococ	ha
18:29	rdococ	s/ha/ah/
18:29	rubenwardy	but that should be rare, and you should justify it
18:29	rubenwardy	and I will also need to make sure it's not too slow
18:30	rubenwardy	two hills has a y of 140
18:30	rubenwardy	bridge is the same
18:34	rdococ	I'm trying to figure out how to set a world to use 'dummy' backend
18:34	rdococ	I don't have a 'minetestserver' file I can execute and using './minetest --migrate [blah blah]' doesn't seem to work
18:35	rubenwardy	literally just change backend in world.mt to dumy
18:35	rubenwardy	*dummy
18:36	rdococ	ah, world.mt didn't exist until I opened the world. I think.
18:37	rdococ	or I'm just an idiot
18:37	rubenwardy	set up windows builds on my CI for my game
18:38	rubenwardy	source/server/worker/threadworker.hpp:34:8: error: â€˜mutexâ€™ in namespace â€˜stdâ€™ does not name a type
18:38	rubenwardy	silly Ubuntu being outdated :'(
18:38	rubenwardy	hopefully the update will fix it
18:38	rubenwardy	normal gcc works fine
18:38	rubenwardy	so it's just mingw that's outdated
18:43		Mr-Pardison joined #minetest-hub
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18:51	ircSparky	im looking through the mob_redo api
18:51	tenplus1	:P
18:52	ircSparky	if self.hornytimer > 240 then
18:52	ircSparky	self.child = false
18:52	ircSparky	wtf
18:52	tenplus1	mobs can be bred, have children :)
18:52	ircSparky	lo
18:52	ircSparky	l
18:52	rdococ	Yayâ„¢
18:52	rubenwardy	woo 18.04 on my server!
18:52	rubenwardy	lol!
18:52	tenplus1	nice one rubem :P
18:52	rdococ	so if a young mob becomes horny enough he becomes an adult?
18:53	sofar	that code is wrong on many levels
18:53	rdococ	sofar: exactly what I was thinking
18:53	sofar	who wrote it?
18:53	tenplus1	lol, self.hornytimer controls 3 different things, hearts above mod meaning it can breed, timer until ti can breed again, and child growing up status
18:53	rdococ	I feel like that might add several more levels of wrong
18:54	tenplus1	lolol, it's just a variable name :D
18:54		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:54	tenplus1	wb Jordach
18:54	rdococ	so the mob becoming an adult is equivalent to it being able to breed for the first time?
18:54	sofar	seriously though, variable names matter
18:54	rdococ	and the mob becomes an adult by getting really horny
18:54	tenplus1	sofar: agree'd, and this means what it means :P
18:54	sofar	do you honestly think people will be able to read your code objectively if you label your variables "swastika" and "redskin" ?
18:55	tenplus1	why would I use those ?
18:55	sofar	whatever happened to "fertile"
18:55	rdococ	I don't think "hornytimer" is on the same level as wrong as "swastika" and "redskin"
18:55	tenplus1	heh... my code is commented so you know exactly what's happening
18:55	sofar	look
18:55	rdococ	also, can mobs become infertile/
18:55	sofar	I'm not part of the PC police here
18:55	rdococ	s/\//?/
18:55	tenplus1	and self.hornytimer is exactly that... how long the mob is horny for so it can breed...
18:56	sofar	the name is thick
18:56	sofar	very, very thick
18:56	tenplus1	lol
18:56	tenplus1	what woudl ya make it ?
18:56	rdococ	sofar: hehe, PC police... it kind of sounds like it could be recursive. PoliCe police
18:56	rubenwardy	*SJWs
18:56	sofar	mating, fertile, etc.
18:56	rdococ	I'm not clear on the definition of SJW though
18:56	sofar	reproductiontimer
18:57	sofar	etc.
18:57	sofar	plenty of normal ways of saying it
18:57	sofar	heck even `aroused` sounds better
18:57	rdococ	surely a grand title like "justice warrior" wouldn't be given to someone whose complaints about the way others use terms are extreme?
18:57	tenplus1	self.repo_timer ... bam! guy breaks through your door to steal the car back :DDDDD hah
18:57	ircSparky	testosteronetimer
18:57		IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
18:57	tenplus1	hi fussel
18:58	IhrFussel	tenplus1, not sure if it's still like that in the newest mobs redo version but slow animals with jump enabled cannot climb up nodes...only when I make them faster
18:58	rdococ	ircSparky: wouldn't that suggest that all the mobs are male? then how would they create child mobs without advanced technology?
18:58	tenplus1	lol rdoc
18:58	rdococ	:O
18:58	tenplus1	we cant assume their genders :D
18:58	rdococ	lol
18:59	rdococ	the mobs have a secret underground laboratory where they construct eggs
18:59	rdococ	well, eggs and embryos
18:59	ircSparky	males just generally have more, if i am understanding correctly
18:59	IhrFussel	They simply jump at the same spot, they cannot reach the next node (in my version at least)
18:59	rdococ	ircSparky: lolwat :P
18:59	ircSparky	idk
19:00	rubenwardy	women have testosterone
19:00	rubenwardy	just less of it
19:00	rdococ	IhrFussel: it's fun to jump repeatedly
19:00	rdococ	rubenwardy: true, I suppose
19:00	IhrFussel	In particular tamed mobs that try to follow the player
19:00	IhrFussel	It's annoying to go with them on exploration tour cause they are stuck if they fall down 1 node
19:00	rdococ	IhrFussel: just make them super fast ;)
19:01	tenplus1	fussel, set stepheight to 1.1 in the mob registry or add to jump_height so they can clear a block better
19:01	tenplus1	I've been getting complaints about mobs being able to escape captivity so much I limited them too much it seems
19:04	tenplus1	if I make stepheight 1.1 so they can walk up hills then they get stuck inside walls... mt engine bug with entities
19:05	ircSparky	self.path.way = minetest.find_path(s, p1, 16, self.stepheight, dropheight, "A*_noprefetch")
19:06	ircSparky	we kno dey wey
19:06	ircSparky	:P
19:06	tenplus1	lol
19:06	rdococ	I'm bored so I'm experimenting with lua 5.3.4
19:06	ircSparky	what are you experimenting?
19:06	rdococ	not much yet
19:06	rdococ	I'm looking on the lua-users wii
19:06	rdococ	s/wii/wiki/
19:06	tenplus1	install love2d and play with gui's :P
19:07	rdococ	there are cool things like mutable functions
19:09	IhrFussel	tenplus1, jump_height 6 means 0.6 nodes?
19:10	tenplus1	set_velocity({x = x, y = self.jump_height, z = z})
19:11	IhrFussel	Is velocity in nodes?
19:11	rubenwardy	yes
19:11	tenplus1	then yeah, 0.6 nps
19:12	tenplus1	thing is, the mob jumps high enough to make the step up.. I gotta make it move forward at the apex of the jump
19:13	IhrFussel	My "hack" is if self.owner ~= "" and self.order == "follow" then v.y = 11 end
19:14	IhrFussel	That way it should prevent animals from jumping through walls if not following their owner
19:15	tenplus1	lol, that's a high jump
19:15	IhrFussel	1.1 nodes...is that wrong?
19:18	tenplus1	mob will jump very high into air
19:18	IhrFussel	Is there a better self. value to check if the animal is currently following a player?
19:19	tenplus1	k, I've added a minetest.after when mob jumps to nudge it forward at ape
19:19	tenplus1	*apex
19:19	tenplus1	testing
19:20	IhrFussel	How do you know whether you need to increase X or Z velocity?
19:21	tenplus1	it's all calculated in do_jump
19:21	IhrFussel	Ah...will look at it. The tamed mobs save the player they follow in self.following correct?
19:22	tenplus1	jumping up works fine now :D
19:23	tenplus1	git updated, try new version
19:24	tenplus1	it puts a slight delay after jump which then moves mob forwards to get up that 1 block :D
19:24	tenplus1	without the use of stepheight
19:27	Calinou	rubenwardy: Fedora is an excellent OS for MinGW builds, I use it for my Godot CI builds
19:27	Calinou	GCC 7 out of the box :)
19:27	rubenwardy	:'(
19:27	tenplus1	18.04 has gcc7
19:27	Calinou	for portable Linux builds, you can use Ubuntu 14.04 with a GCC 7 PPA, and statically link libstdc++/libgcc
19:27	rubenwardy	My computer has gcc7
19:27	rubenwardy	(Manjaro)
19:27	Calinou	you can run Docker containers in Travis CI if you really need to, but you should probably use GitLab CI instead
19:27	rubenwardy	tenplus1: really?
19:27	Calinou	(which uses Docker)
19:28	rubenwardy	maybe it's because I'm using Docker?
19:28	tenplus1	yeh, currently sitting at gcc 7.3.0
19:28	rubenwardy	no no
19:28	rubenwardy	I'm talking about mingw-w64-gcc
19:28	rubenwardy	not gcc
19:28	Calinou	unfortunately, I haven't found a way to make portable Linux applications from a recent distribution in all cases
19:28	rubenwardy	it's the windows cross compiler
19:28	Calinou	(i.e. with graphical applications that link to OpenGL libraries)
19:29	Calinou	it can be done for CLI apps, but not for GUI applications
19:29	rubenwardy	companies like Steam and Unity seem to do it well
19:29	Calinou	(https://github.com/intoli/exodus)
19:29	Calinou	rubenwardy: they just build on old distributions :P
19:29	rubenwardy	they probably compile on Ubuntu
19:29	Calinou	which is what you should do for now
19:29	rubenwardy	oh?
19:29	Calinou	my pipe dream is building on a recent distribution so I can use recent tech all I want
19:29	rubenwardy	what's the issue?
19:29	Calinou	but Ubuntu 14.04 + GCC 7 PPA is good enough for this, just remember to link libgcc and libstdc++ statically
19:29	Calinou	(the license allows it)
19:30	Calinou	it should be enough for C++14 at least, not sure about C++17â€¦Â I haven't tested
19:30	rubenwardy	well, I use C++14
19:30	Calinou	(GCC 7 has full C++17 support as far as I know, but I don't know if stuff will break when the binary is run on old distributions)
19:30	Calinou	I'm writing my LearnOpenGL code in C++17 modeâ€¦ not that I actually use features from it anyway :P
19:30	rubenwardy	do you know how I can get a newer mingw-gcc version?
19:30	Calinou	(I definitely use C++11 features and possibly at least one C++14 feature)
19:31	Calinou	there should be PPAs for it, but I advise you to build from Fedora instead
19:31	Calinou	nothing forces you to use the same container for all target platforms :)
19:31	Calinou	https://github.com/Calinou/godot-builds-ci
19:31	Calinou	I'm using Fedora 27 for all platforms except Linux (Ubuntu 14.04), macOS and iOS (which use Travis CI instead of GitLab CI)
19:32	Calinou	it's also good for making WebAssembly and Android builds
19:32	rubenwardy	I use self-hosted CI on my server
19:33	rubenwardy	with the builds done in docker containers
19:33	Calinou	ah, I see
19:33	Calinou	it should be easy enough to run Fedora containers, no?
19:33	rubenwardy	not sure
19:34	rubenwardy	I mean, Fedora doesn't have apt, right?
19:34	rubenwardy	I'd have to rewrite most of my scripts
19:34	rubenwardy	I'd rather find a PPA
19:34	rubenwardy	or build mingw-w64 myself
19:36	Calinou	it uses DNF instead of apt, yeah
19:36	Calinou	I don't know if there's a good MinGW PPA
19:36	rubenwardy	doesn't appear to be
19:41	rdococ	there seems to be no such thing as first-class scopes
19:46	Mr-Pardison	perhaps there are first-rate ones
19:47	rubenwardy	Calinou, tenplus1: turns out the docker container is running 16.04, not 18.04
19:47	rubenwardy	I did delete and recreate them
19:48	tenplus1	:P#
19:48	Calinou	keep in mind your binary won't run on old distributions
19:49	Calinou	PSA https://www.gimp.org/news/2018/04/27/gimp-2-10-0-released/
19:49	tenplus1	ooh, havent tested new gimp out yet :))) thanks for reminding me
19:50	benrob0329	Calinou: I was using Fedora, then I tried Debian testing
19:51	rubenwardy	Calinou: jesus, I'm building for Windows not Linux!
19:52		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
19:53	tenplus1	wb Jordach
19:53	rubenwardy	argh
19:53	Jordach	microfiber cloth + 99% isopropyl alchohol
19:53	tenplus1	:P
19:53	Jordach	that shit cleans screens
19:54	rubenwardy	do you know how I can override the ubuntu version of a docker parent image?
19:54	Jordach	linux magic
19:54	rubenwardy	I'm inheriting from this: https://github.com/JetBrains/teamcity-docker-agent
19:54	rubenwardy	which uses u16.04
19:54	Jordach	ayy LTS
19:54	Calinou	rubenwardy: sorry, I thought you were building for Linux
19:54	Calinou	I read it wrong
19:54	Calinou	I mean, both platforms
19:56	Krock	no idea.. check for docker updates?
19:56	rubenwardy	I guess I'm going to have to fork both of these repos
19:57	sfan5	ayy docker
19:58	Krock	ayy lmao sfan5 got triggered ^^
19:58	sfan5	yes
19:59		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:59	rubenwardy	actually, with tagging I can replace a parent of a packet out of my control
20:00	tenplus1	wb mister
20:00	Mr_Pardison	t.hanks.
20:00	Mr_Pardison	something is going on with the internet here.....
20:09	rubenwardy	so, the answer to my issue is to make my own image with 18.04 and java8, then tag it as the base image for the CI container
20:10	tenplus1	nite folks o///
20:10		tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:14	rdococ	A scope would be a special case of associative array which has a 'parent'. If you try to access a scope's variable that is undefined, then it will look in its parent instead for that variable name
20:14	rdococ	e.g. "function () { var a = 3; return (function () { return a })() }" in the inner function, 'a' does not exist in its scope so it checks the parent scope, which does have 'a'
20:15	rdococ	This would also occur with assignment (assigning to 'a' will assign to the first variable 'a' it finds, checking the current scope first then its parent, and then its parent), unless you use a keyword like 'local'
20:16	rubenwardy	makes sense
20:16	rubenwardy	that's how my compiler/interpretter worked
20:17	rdococ	Additionally: Function calls would treat 'return' statements as implicit parameters holding the caller's continuation (a function-like object that, when invoked, returns from that function), essentially turning calls into call/cc and also meaning that the call stack would be part of the scoping system
20:45		nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
20:54		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
21:17	* rubenwardy	is now running Linux 4.16 on his laptop
21:18	rubenwardy	it's really cool how easy it is to switch on Manjaro https://i.rubenwardy.com/J2diI.png
21:20	rdococ	I am using xubuntu 18.04 with Linux 4.15
21:20	rubenwardy	yeah, that's what ubuntu comes with
21:20	rdococ	which is good, as 4.15 is a fairly recent release
21:21	rubenwardy	it has the spectre fixes in it, which makes it slower
21:21	rubenwardy	4.16 has improvements on that
21:21	rubenwardy	it'll be backported though
21:21	rubenwardy	may already have been
21:21	rdococ	I'm bored and experimenting with lua
21:22	rubenwardy	4.15=28/Jan/18 4.16=1/April/18
21:22	rubenwardy	oh, fart
21:22	rubenwardy	$ sudo apt update
21:22	rubenwardy	sudo: apt: command not found
21:22	rdococ	Sounds smelly
21:23	Krock	rdococ, then fite some players in CTF
21:23	rdococ	rubenwardy: That doesn't sound good
21:23	rdococ	Krock: What if I loze? :c
21:23	Krock	rdococ, then grab a new sord and gun to try again
21:23	rubenwardy	I'm not using a debian based OS anymore, so no apt
21:23	rubenwardy	the command I was looking for was pacman -Syyu
21:23	rdococ	sounds apt
21:24	Krock	< insert -Syyu meme here >
21:26	* rubenwardy	adds pacman -Syyu to his crontab
21:27		Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub
21:29	Fixer	pacman commands are so shitty
21:30	Calinou	4.15.17-300.fc27.x86_64
21:30	Calinou	and yeah, my laptop feels a bit slower lately :/
21:30	Calinou	desktop is fine still
21:32	rubenwardy	> reuben
21:32	rubenwardy	TRIGGERED
21:32	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=317400#p317400
21:32	rdococ	that's a weird way to do a 2x2 crafting table
21:33	rdococ	yet I think that might actually work
21:34	Krock	reuben, that method is not CSM-safe
21:35	rubenwardy	no
21:41	xerox123	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_sandwich
21:41	rdococ	delicious?
21:42	xerox123	I guess so, possibly meat overload
21:43	rdococ	warning: meat overload
21:45	rdococ	yay
21:48	rdococ	I'm working on a linked list implementation
21:48	rdococ	should list[3] return list.tail.tail.tail or list.tail.tail.tail.head?
21:51	rdococ	It's a Krock
21:59	* benrob0329	starts to setup his website on a more permanent setup
22:00	rdococ	It's a benrob0329
22:00	rubenwardy	it's a yay
22:00	rdococ	I am slowly infesting everyone around me with the yay
22:00	rdococ	Soon, everyone will say yay
22:02	rdococ	I'm working on a linked list script in Lua
22:02	rdococ	it adds linked lists that use zero-indexingâ„¢
22:04	sofar	rdococ: you should't allow [] usage on a linked list
22:04	sofar	x = List()
22:04	sofar	x.insert(elem)
22:04	sofar	x:insert(elem)
22:05	sofar	etc..
22:05	rubenwardy	* List:new()
22:05	rdococ	sofar: whyZat
22:05		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
22:05	sofar	x:next():get_value()
22:05	sofar	something like that
22:06	rdococ	so for the fourth item of a list I need x:next():next():next():get_value()â„¢
22:06	sofar	rdococ: [] isn't a linked list operator
22:06	sofar	rdococ: sure, yes
22:06	rubenwardy	or get()
22:06	sofar	or x:get_by_index(4)
22:06	rdococ	sofar: that's long for x[4] though
22:07	rdococ	at the moment you can access the head and the tail directly
22:07	sofar	then your implementation is probably broken
22:07	rdococ	e.g. "x.head = 42" will work
22:07	sofar	x:head() and x:tail() should always be used
22:07	sofar	x:head():set(value)
22:07	rubenwardy	you know Lua has operator overloading, right?
22:07	sofar	is he overloading?
22:07	rubenwardy	it's still kinda wrong to have [], but not too wrong
22:07	rdococ	yes
22:07	rdococ	I am overloading
22:07	sofar	I still wouldn't start with overloading [] tbh
22:08	rubenwardy	it's the kinda wrong that you shouldn't worry too much about in Lua
22:08	rdococ	I'm confused
22:08	rdococ	I need more elaboration on what kind of wrong it i
22:08	rdococ	s/it i/it is/
22:09	rdococ	I also have x(n) - the difference is that x(n).head == x[n]
22:09	* xerox123	has exams in a couple weeks >.<
22:19	sofar	I've never felt the need for a linked list in lua
22:19	sofar	in C, sure
22:20	rubenwardy	it's an academic exercise
22:20	rubenwardy	obv
22:21	sofar	well I've used LL in several work projects
22:21	sofar	so I'd like to see what he cooks up in Lua
22:21	rubenwardy	I've not used it much
22:22	rubenwardy	mostly use vectors or deques in C++, as I didn't tend to change the contents
22:22	sofar	systemd-bootchart uses a doubly linked list, for instance
22:24	rdococ	The way my linked list script works is that the head and tail are exposed as properties of the table returned from List.new
22:24	rdococ	allowing you to do whatever with them
22:24	sofar	geesh
22:24	sofar	can you stop swearing?
22:24	sofar	I mean, that's just mean
22:25	rdococ	wat
22:25	rubenwardy	you don't store the tail
22:25	rubenwardy	if it's a doubly linked list, you don't even have a tail
22:25	sofar	rdococ: I'm just saying that doing that kind of stuff when you design a class, are just reasons why you would instantly fail your data structures 101 class
22:25	rdococ	?
22:26	sofar	exposing your head/tail should really be done ONLY if you can show a computational advantage in a real world use case
22:26	sofar	not when you design a basic class
22:26	rdococ	I should just give up programming
22:27	sofar	lol, no
22:27	sofar	just take the learning experience
22:27	rdococ	I don't see the point of having functions to set the head and tail as opposed to just exposing them
22:27	sofar	you never should set the head
22:27	sofar	the head is internally kept
22:28	sofar	you give out a reference for it (a new list, essentially)
22:28	sofar	but you never expose it
22:28	rdococ	I still don't completely understand
22:33	rubenwardy	OOP relies a lot on keeping things private if they should be private
22:33	rubenwardy	like, as a class maker you decide what the things that use you should be able to access
22:33	rubenwardy	and you should choose it in a way that dissuades hacky behaviour
22:34	rdococ	Lua is the definition of hacky behavior
22:34	rubenwardy	well, true
22:45	rdococ	sofar: although, pretending that I'm swearing only really served to confuse me
23:52	Fixer	HEY< LITTLE DRUM!

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