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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-02-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:11 paramat joined #minetest-hub
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04:53 Thomas-S Megaf, we're working on Streets 3.0 at the moment. This version will be much more modular and lightweight.
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10:38 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
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13:20 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
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14:40 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
14:43 IhrFussel I was curious how many high lag values my avg_lag mod reported on my server so far... the script that counts the lines results in "78082 samples -> 4299 higher lag values (3978 tolerable, 321 critical) [5.5%]." ... A sample is the max lag per minute
14:46 IhrFussel I think that's pretty good considering my server is not lightweight
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16:48 Fixer MAKE A MOOOOOOOOOOVE
16:49 * Mr_Pardison moves his king pawn to d4
16:55 ThomasMonroe umm
16:55 ThomasMonroe thats not possible
16:55 ThomasMonroe Mr_Pardison, its e4 XD
16:55 Mr_Pardison I knew somethign was wrong.
16:55 Mr_Pardison It's been a while since I've played a game.
16:55 ThomasMonroe d6
16:56 ThomasMonroe ^ was my next move :)
16:59 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
17:00 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
17:00 twoelk o/
17:01 Mr_Pardison \o
17:01 twoelk
17:02 Fixer \oo/
17:02 Mr_Pardison /oo\
17:02 Fixer |oo|
17:03 ThomasMonroe \O>
17:04 Fixer Do you know what "INNOVATIVE" game we need for minetest? Skiing down the slope! Extreme sports %)
17:04 ThomasMonroe lol
17:05 ThomasMonroe Qub3d Update: Gamestates are going to be added soon :)
17:06 Mr_Pardison Fixer: YES!
17:06 Mr_Pardison put a player on a pair of skis and then see how long it takes them to either fail or make it to the bottom.
17:08 ThomasMonroe or make it to the bottom AND fail XD
17:09 Mr_Pardison would be hilarious either way
17:11 ThomasMonroe lol
17:23 Krock joined #minetest-hub
17:23 Krock hi Mr_Pardison
17:23 Mr_Pardison 'ello Krock
17:56 * twoelk remembers skidding downhill with a pinguin in some game
17:59 twoelk https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_Racer can minetest supply the physics for something like that?
17:59 twoelk oops, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_Racer for most
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18:30 rubenwardy Tux racer is great fun
18:30 rubenwardy hoping that client-side scripting will allow custom player physics eventually
18:30 rubenwardy but we need better anticheat first
18:30 rubenwardy ala #6219
18:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6219 -- Server side movement by bendeutsch
18:35 Shara Your initial feedback to that hasn't made me feel hopeful :(
18:40 Fixer *,,,,*
18:41 Fixer you know, you can merge and disable it by default and keep improving by adding further commits along the way, and then when it is pretty good - enable by default, ???, profit
18:44 Fixer better than letting that PR die and spread dissatisfaction
18:44 Shara I really hope it doesn't die
18:45 Shara But merged and off by default doesn't mean something will just get improved either
18:46 rubenwardy well, it depends on whether the issues are design related or just random bugs / unimplemented stuff
18:46 Fixer it does, there is insentive to work on it
18:46 rubenwardy I hope it's the latter
18:46 rubenwardy if it's the latter, it's fine to merge it and work on it more
18:46 Fixer if it is not merged, it ends up like that FarMap PR and 100 other prs...
18:46 rubenwardy if it's the former, then it shouldn't be merged
18:46 rubenwardy far map had design issues
18:46 rubenwardy and was generally pretty ugly
18:47 rubenwardy heh, strike the former
18:47 rubenwardy the map loading stuff should definitely have been merged
18:49 Fixer farmap idea looks neat on the surface, but then how that minecraft bedrock engine can achieve insane performance on vrange 1000
18:49 Fixer ?
18:49 rubenwardy yeah
18:49 rubenwardy that's the performance I'd prefer
18:50 Fixer i'm not saying i need vrange 1000, but if you have at least vrange 240 - you are set, totally immersed
18:50 rubenwardy agreed
18:50 Fixer now go and visit any server with town at spawn, fps will blow your mind, it sucks balls
18:51 Fixer it is that bad, you need to relocate the spawn sometimes
18:51 Fixer or avoid building on water
18:51 Fixer and/or
18:52 rubenwardy wonder if we could some how fundraise or bounty performance
18:52 rubenwardy hard to do with micro optimisations
18:52 Fixer BTW
18:52 rubenwardy would maybe be better to have benchmarks so we can at least see how PRs affect it
18:53 Fixer MINETEST was mentioned in upvoted thread in r/Minecraft
18:53 Fixer recently
18:53 Fixer something about wishes about next updates
18:53 Fixer with deeper mining
18:54 Fixer rubenwardy: minecraft is dying, not trandy, etc, how you gonna attract people to OSS-like of it, especially when MT pretends to be not MC-inspired, while it is clearly inspired
18:55 rubenwardy yeah, getting people is an issue
18:55 Fixer rubenwardy: my guess is, there are shittons of survival games, it is meme now, even if you push minetest on steam... I doubt it will have much traction (with current MTG)
18:56 Fixer rubenwardy: also, I don't see much developers right now, and MTG is dead (not really, paramat improves it and keeps alive, but that feels scary)
18:57 Fixer there are some attention to engine, but very little interest in MTG, thats bad
18:57 Fixer there is*
18:57 rubenwardy MTG sucks
18:57 rubenwardy I'd rather have people working on their own games, and actually making them good
18:57 Fixer it is like not fun to develop or smth
18:58 rubenwardy than more people on MTG
18:58 Shara Hoenstly, I'm sick of people being so negative about MTG
18:58 sofar I don't think I need to chime in on that and people know my perspective on MTG
18:58 Fixer MTG is nice for sandbox game as of now ;)
18:59 Sokomine joined #minetest-hub
18:59 Fixer but it is boring, no story, no challenge, no mobs, automation, ambience, whatever
18:59 rubenwardy the problem with MTG is that it tries to suit everyone, so suits no one
18:59 Shara Or at least of people being so negative and doing nothing to help it
18:59 sofar I've written extensively why MTG will never succeed at anything on the forums
18:59 rubenwardy it's also a MC clone which is trying not to be a MC clone
18:59 Shara rubenwardy: sure, we know more games are needed, but unless those games can be official or at least have some easy way for people to find them, everyone will still get to know MT through MTG
19:00 Fixer ahah, yes
19:00 Shara and as long as that stands, improving MTG remains more worthy of time than anyone but paramat is willing to give it
19:00 Fixer rubenwardy: featuring some minecraft alpha/beta ideas
19:00 Fixer tools in inventory
19:00 Fixer cobble/gravel texture
19:00 sofar everyone should stop working on MTG immediately
19:00 Fixer no hunger
19:01 sofar it's not worth the time
19:01 sofar just let paramat maintain it
19:01 sofar everyone else should be working on specific narrow-focus subgame goals
19:01 rubenwardy work needs to be done to allow mod compatibility between multiple subgames
19:01 Shara sofar: again, why are you even on the MTG team?
19:01 rubenwardy so having individual mods with defined APIs
19:01 sofar to make sure stuff doesn't break
19:01 Mr_Pardison sofar: surely MTG can't be maintained by a single person.
19:01 rubenwardy having a single mod (ala defualt) is just brain dead
19:01 rubenwardy well
19:01 Shara Just pretty poor show when the MTG devs slam the only official game there is
19:01 rubenwardy when it does more than add nodes
19:02 sofar without any progress or development goals of significance, anyone can maintain mtg as-is
19:02 Mr_Pardison yeah....
19:02 sofar I'm not slamming it. I'm saying it has no reasonable long-term goals that are worth working on
19:02 Shara Yes, you are slamming it
19:02 sofar It's not worth working on
19:02 Shara Heh
19:03 sofar there are far better things you can work on that are far more beneficial to minetest
19:03 sofar it's not the same
19:03 sofar sunken cost fallacy
19:03 Shara At least now I know why you didn't say no to me joining :)
19:03 sofar I can't prevent you from working on MTG, but I wish you wouldn't
19:04 Shara I'm also working on a seperate game
19:04 rubenwardy I think the best thing to do it work on both MTG and other games
19:04 Shara And actually find the experience of moving between them both useful
19:04 rubenwardy then you can back port cool but minimal things, and also expand on them elsewhere
19:04 sofar I get that
19:04 Shara There's some things MTG does right, and a whole load of things I wish it would do differently
19:04 sofar I'm beyond that from my perspective
19:05 Fixer also, do not throw rocks onto me, I waited 6 years to have carts on rails, instead of going into mc beta 1.5 at the time, I have commitment to this game, it is quite impressive how much progress was done on engine, and MTG has carts, and even fireflies, good selection of blocks to build, good for sandbox
19:05 Shara Well that's good for you, but a whole lot of server owners and players are stuck with MTG unless they'd like to lose a lot of work.
19:05 rubenwardy for coursework I think I'm going to work on a mod store for MT
19:05 rubenwardy in Python/Flask
19:05 rubenwardy and get it done
19:06 Shara I do consider making sure the needs of those sever owners and players get met means MTG stays important
19:06 rubenwardy will be done by May
19:06 sofar Shara: even more sunken cost fallacy
19:07 Shara sofar: sorry, but don't agree with you
19:07 Fixer MTG can be improved
19:07 sofar I understand, my perspective is ... not very empathetic
19:08 sofar I'm basically telling current server owners to stuff it and maintain mtg themselves, so everyone else who has cycles can work on something new
19:08 Fixer it can be improved evolutionally or revolutionary, whatever :D
19:08 Fixer sofar: that can work
19:08 Fixer some games has this extreme decentralisation
19:08 Fixer have*
19:09 Shara Well I've been maintaining my own versions of MTG since coral and keys got added, because I don't want them
19:10 Shara Though I'd actually like to get back to a point where I can use MTG proper again to save myself some hassle of maintaining those mods
19:10 sofar why are you maintaining a subgame if you can make a mod that can `minetest.override_item` etc.?
19:11 sofar anyway, not important/irrelevant
19:11 Shara Back when I started this, that wasn't an option
19:11 Calinou I just wish Minetest had a better experience for new players for now
19:11 Calinou there's just too much things to configure to make a fresh install playable right now
19:11 Fixer Calinou: problems in 2018?
19:11 Fixer holy shit, it is 2018!
19:11 Calinou plus, we don't even have an official Windows installer anymore
19:12 Fixer Calinou: installer sucks, zip rules new Brave & Degenerate windows era
19:12 Krock apt get install 2018
19:12 Mr_Pardison Linux FTW
19:12 Krock Calinou, did we ever have an official Windows installer?
19:12 Calinou Mr_Pardison: we don't have an official distribution-independent Linux package either :/
19:12 Calinou (AppImage)
19:12 Calinou Krock: yep, for a short while. rubenwardy made it
19:12 Mr_Pardison Calinou: ik.
19:12 Mr_Pardison only in the reops tey have.
19:12 Mr_Pardison *they
19:12 Calinou Mr_Pardison: so lots of people end up using outdated versions
19:12 rubenwardy I don't have Windows any more
19:12 rubenwardy and so can't anymore
19:13 Calinou rubenwardy: you can create them from Linux (both with NSIS and Inno Setup) and test them using WINE
19:13 Mr_Pardison Ubuntu (as of 16.04) has 0.4.13
19:13 Fixer Calinou: windows installer in 201X @ malware, adware, opencandy, universal extractor, regshot2, hassles with updates
19:13 Calinou the only one which doesn't work in WINE is the WiX Toolset, which is more targeted at enterprise applications
19:13 Fixer portable is superior
19:13 Calinou (it creates .msi packages instead of .exe installers)
19:13 Calinou Fixer: why not both?
19:13 Fixer you can do both :)
19:13 Calinou see https://packages.ubuntu.co​m/search?keywords=minetest and https://packages.debian.or​g/search?keywords=minetest
19:14 Krock indeed, using Wine might be the solution there
19:14 Fixer Calinou: there is literally a PR about *.msi, guess what? IT IS DYINGG
19:14 Calinou users of LTS distros won't have the latest version :(
19:14 Calinou Fixer: yeah, I don't know why it's not being merged
19:14 Fixer Calinou: poke nerzhul and autogenerate appimages on his stuff
19:14 Calinou Krock: Inno Setup works very well from WINE, I'm using it for my Godot builds
19:14 sofar Shara: perhaps I'm looking at this too much from a business perspective, but honestly if I don't then I'd be working on things that are a waste of my time - I'm just not interested in working on something that has limited to no forward mobility and doesn't match the problem space I'd like to see solved
19:15 Krock Calinou, I don't know of any dev who has a setup on Windows to test & review it
19:15 Calinou Fixer: I would if there was any promise to make them official…
19:15 Fixer Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6153
19:15 Calinou Krock: the generated installer works perfectly in WINE :P
19:15 Calinou but you can test it in a Windows VM if you wish
19:15 Shara sofar: yes, you probably are. But do try to remember not everyone sees or wants to solve the exact same problem as you.
19:16 sofar which is fine, but everyone should agree that resources are now wasted on things that just... don't need it
19:16 Calinou I kind of feel this as well
19:16 Calinou (see: CSM debates)
19:16 sofar the amount of people-time available to the project is limited
19:16 Shara And what would you have me invest my time in instead?
19:16 rubenwardy sofar: then resign from MTG
19:16 Shara ^
19:17 sofar rubenwardy: as long as people want me to review PRs for specific bits of code, I see no problem with doing that
19:17 sofar why should I resign if I'm still around to fix critical bugs and advise/review?
19:17 sofar I just don't want to work on solving the major architectural problems that MTG has
19:18 sofar or adding new features to it
19:18 Fixer sofar, MTG time available is paramat time available; no paramat, no MTG, and it will be sad to be gameless or stuck with zombie game (trying not to troll here)
19:18 sofar which is fine (and somewhat the current status quo)
19:18 sofar but then everyone except paramat should resign from mtg
19:18 Shara I'm actually working on things for it
19:19 sofar well, good
19:19 sofar I see it more as how I treat minetest-mods
19:19 sofar making sure it doesn't go to shit
19:19 Shara They are also things for another game for the most part, but it becomes a two for the price of one then
19:19 sofar I'm not going to delete it
19:20 Shara Delete what?
19:20 sofar mtg
19:20 Shara Uhhh
19:20 Shara Not even sure why that came up, since it wouldn't be your call.
19:20 sofar as in, delete it from my local copies, stop using it myself etc.
19:20 Shara Ahh
19:21 sofar I've done Open Source for... like 20 years now? I know very well that maintining legacy projects can be a very small time investment and have a big return
19:21 Fixer sofar: but what remains?
19:22 Shara I'm quite happy for you to work on MTG or not as you see fit, but I do find is bad when one of the official devs for it is so intent on calling it a waste of time.
19:22 Fixer sofar: apart from MTG, insidethebox
19:22 sofar I would just effectively shelf it for the most part
19:22 sofar ah, yes, I still think the words are suitable (crass, but not out of line)
19:22 Fixer but what in the future?
19:22 rubenwardy #7053
19:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7053 -- Rename Subgame to Game
19:23 sofar rubenwardy: I'm all for that
19:23 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:23 sofar mark me as :+1: on that
19:23 rubenwardy done
19:25 sofar Shara: the reason I'm being somewhat offensive about it is because I want people to realize that "we all want to get something" but "it comes at a cost" and those 2 are not matching
19:26 Shara sofar: I realise the cost of getting things, which is both why I am working on my own game (not a small effort, and has a team behind it... but not doing any kind of public release until it gets to a certain stage), and also why I agreed to join MTG development.
19:26 aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
19:26 Shara I am completely willing to work on things.
19:26 twoelk sofar: you got any links to where you go into detail at where mtg fails?
19:27 sofar hmm, honestly that would probably be somewhere in IRC logs I think
19:27 sofar essentially, MTG shouldn't be packaged as a game with the default download
19:28 Shara It needs to come with something
19:28 sofar the default download should contain a single-player survival type game instead, focussed on local play or local lan play only
19:28 sofar no problem with mtg existing for server owners to use
19:29 sofar but stop giving it to people who download a phone or tablet version from the app store
19:29 twoelk well if ever mt does not come with default content then it definetly needs some built in download option for content
19:29 sofar I'm definitely not saying "dont' ship any game"
19:29 sofar the opposite
19:29 sofar it just should not be MTG, at all
19:30 Shara Personally I'd favour either it coming with more than one game, or making a very easy way to get games from the client
19:30 twoelk all other games had their time and faded into abandoned states
19:30 twoelk none have stuck around for really long
19:31 twoelk I wrote most of the games-list on the wiki and there are a lot of corpses there
19:31 sofar previous games haven't gotten enough momentum
19:31 Shara How many other games ever had actual teams, not just one or two people, working on them?
19:32 sofar or lacked actual orchestration/directing
19:32 twoelk mtg is the only game that has some sort of functioning maintenance for most of the time it existed
19:32 rubenwardy yeah
19:32 rubenwardy there are basically no other games of sufficient quality
19:32 sofar It would certainly be interesting to do a post-mortem on old games
19:33 Darcidride_ joined #minetest-hub
19:33 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&t=19721
19:34 Krock rubenwardy, you forgot to add a poll for those who don't have a github acc
19:34 Shara rubenwardy: surely there's already been enough positive support for this?
19:34 rubenwardy heh
19:34 rubenwardy yeah
19:34 Shara It's just changing a word
19:34 Shara Nothing else
19:34 rubenwardy kk, fiar
19:35 sofar I think one of the biggest problems is that people don't understand the problem space
19:35 sofar it's not that mtg is bad/or good
19:35 twoelk maybe someone should explain why the term subgame was chosen in the first place - I remember some discussion but forgot the content
19:35 Shara It's simply not really a game
19:35 sofar well no
19:36 sofar the problem is that it's not a solution for the biggest problem
19:36 sofar take for instance
19:36 sofar terraria
19:37 twoelk so the single example game solution is bad?
19:37 sofar did you know that terraria is a terribly incompatible game that can't do multiplayer with other versions unless you have the exact same version pretty much?
19:37 sofar if you're on android 4, you pretty much cant play with anyone who has android 5/6 etc
19:37 sofar why then is the game still so popular?
19:37 Shara Never had a single problem when running a server for it way back (but only played with a group of PC users)
19:38 sofar and the answer is simple: the game is enjoyable in single player anyway
19:38 rubenwardy deleted topic
19:38 sofar I bet 95%+ terraria players never play multiplayer (ever)
19:38 rubenwardy there's a lot more to do in terraria than just build
19:38 Shara sofar: it's a game. Not a dig-a-hole simulator
19:38 rubenwardy which is why
19:38 sofar exactly
19:38 sofar it's actually a well-rounded game at that
19:38 sofar someone did:
19:39 sofar - artwork direction
19:39 sofar - landscaping
19:39 sofar - crafting engineering to be consistent and understandable
19:39 sofar - add some RP elements/storyline
19:39 sofar it's not rocket science
19:39 rubenwardy > crafting engineering to be consistent and understandable
19:39 rubenwardy github.com/rubenwardy/crafting
19:39 Shara None of this is really news though. It's also why I'm trying to ge specific people taking ownership for such areas in my own game
19:39 sofar it's just looking at it from a product perspective
19:40 sofar this is how nore and me developed ITB as well
19:40 sofar focus on a goal, make sure everything passes the checkboxes (good textures, audio, mechanics, etc.)
19:41 sofar and don't release until it all works
19:41 Shara Basically why mine is not public
19:41 twoelk sofar: seems I'm pretty much with you there except that I don't understand why this excludes working on mtg
19:41 sofar "working on" in my vocabulary isn't the same as "maintaining it"
19:42 sofar I'm currently not working on ITB, either
19:42 sofar I'm not working on anything :)
19:42 Shara Lucky for some :P
19:43 twoelk well from what I understand you would check that new code doesn't wreck havoc but not fix the existing content where you think it fails
19:43 sofar Shara: if you are working on a project that has it's goals set to create an essentially single-player survival game, count me in
19:43 Shara sofar: if you would be interested in working with us, please do message me to discuss more.
19:44 sofar the goals need to match, though, I absolutely do not want to work on a project that solely is designed to be run on a server
19:44 Shara Agred, that's why discussion first
19:44 sofar or primarily, even
19:44 * twoelk remembers some tomes lost in never made trails
19:44 sofar mostly because I worked on ITB and entity_ai
19:44 Shara I want something that gives a solid singleplayer experience without need of additional mods
19:45 sofar and finishing an actual project is more important than getting traction on 3 projects at the same time
19:45 sofar besides that, with ITB I got a chance to do the whole creative directing/architecture that I wanted to do
19:46 sofar my next project should really be to work on entity_ai
19:47 sofar of course, there are significant RL projects happening as well for me
19:47 Shara One thing I do not want to work on myself is mobs... so if you find yourself in a place where you can provide mobs that work well, that's something I could have use for
19:48 twoelk my next RL-project : go shovel lots of snow :-P
19:48 sofar yeah, we had 8+" of snow at our RL project too last week :)
19:49 Fixer twoelk: same, snow loves you
19:49 Krock 20 centimeters ^
19:49 sofar I nearly got stuck in it
19:49 sofar well, the car :)
19:51 twoelk usually I get my "spring-is-coming" haircut in early march - but I don't really feel like doing it that soon
19:52 benrob0329 joined #minetest-hub
20:05 Fixer spring is coming, it will be nice, but summer will suuuuck
20:06 * Fixer pokes Calinou
20:07 Mr_Pardison Fixer: try summer in a place where it will reach 100 F regularly.
20:08 Fixer Mr_Pardison: that is why I hate it so much
20:08 Fixer i mean, when Europe moved into Africa? I've missed that part
20:08 Mr_Pardison at least we have really good BBQ where I live.
20:09 sofar yes, because BBQ is related to location
20:09 Fixer if your car has no AC, you will became BBQ
20:10 * twoelk thinks after all this discussion he should bring his own privat subgames uptodate - but then rather starts to play some mt
20:11 sofar twoelk: make me a new box?
20:11 sofar on itb?
20:12 twoelk erm ...
20:12 sofar twoelk: minetest.foo-projects.org
20:13 twoelk been there, failed some, loved the place
20:14 twoelk wow - playing from my new usb-stick sucks like sticky goo :-(
20:15 sofar rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=6&t=19719&view=unread&sid​=fcc776b5f9317fa8afe6b68a558f22f4#unread
20:15 sofar bug in docs?
20:18 rubenwardy lol
20:20 sofar we use "models" as folder name everywhere, not "meshes"
20:21 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_boo​k/commit/dddfab3827c356ce4743aa195f36d085d8fd583f
20:22 sofar +1
20:22 Shara :)
20:22 Shara (yes, your editor needs to do better work)
20:24 Calinou sofar: people don't care about compatibility in proprietary gaming
20:24 Calinou especially since Steam has (sometimes forced) automatic updates
20:25 Calinou also, MemoServ is literally Twitter :P https://lut.im/7f45uybXHi/PEwhkPdB9k0Orkj0.png
20:27 rubenwardy > literally
20:28 sofar Calinou: steam doesn't exist for android
20:28 sofar and that's where the largest minetest user base exists
20:37 * twoelk whispers lets make windows great again and hides again in the shadows
20:39 twoelk hmm, so turning of logging and savemaptolocal makes mt playable from slow usb - not really surprising I guess
20:40 twoelk why do write processes slow down the client? or rather can't that be avoided?
20:41 sofar usb storage is slow to write
20:41 sofar saving the map locally serves no purpose other than stealing the map
20:41 sofar you don't load the game faster
20:41 twoelk but I love using the mapper
20:41 sofar it's just reducing the longevity of your usb stick
20:43 twoelk but that aside, can't them slowmotion monks that scribble down the map be sent to some other abbey on the other side of the mountain, so I can have my fast lane for fighting of the odd monster
20:43 twoelk it's the same with any info written to local file
20:45 Calinou USB sticks are really slow compared to SSDs or even HDDs at times
20:46 Calinou high-end USB sticks such as the Sandisk Extreme aren't too bad, but are still much worse than mid-range SSDs
20:46 twoelk all true
20:47 twoelk haven't played from a stick for that exact reason
20:48 twoelk insert "for some time" in the above  - somewhere
20:48 Mr_Pardison between 'stick' and 'for'
20:49 twoelk :-P
20:51 twoelk so it seems my new tiny speck of usb device is not the gadget of option to sneak in more mt at work :-(
20:56 Fixer USB 2.0 flash driver is uselessly slow
20:57 Fixer drive*
20:57 Fixer Calinou: i'm in SSD club as of now :]
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21:17 Calinou congrats :D
21:19 Fixer new stalker lost alpha full release, neat
21:20 rubenwardy so, that snow huh
21:24 rubenwardy how can Ubuntu's Software app be so slow
21:55 lumberJ rubenwardy: every try app grid?
21:55 lumberJ ever*
21:55 rubenwardy no?
21:55 rubenwardy !g linux app grid
21:55 rubenwardy ~g linux app grid
21:55 ShadowBot rubenwardy: App Grid An Alternative to Ubuntu Software Center, Install in ... - App Grid is a lightweight software center which is being considered as an alternative to Ubuntu software center, it's been a quite whil... </l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noobsl​ab.com%2F2015%2F10%2Fapp%2Dgrid%2Dalter​native%2Dto%2Dubuntu%2Dsoftware.html>, App Grid: New Lightweight Ubuntu Software Center (7 more messages)
21:56 lumberJ its a nice software app if you are unhappy with ubuntu software center
21:56 rubenwardy http://www.appgrid.org/
21:56 lumberJ performs well enough, easy to install and is drastically better at discovery than most software/package installers
21:57 rubenwardy argh
21:57 rubenwardy PPA
21:57 lumberJ there is ppa or .deb
21:58 rubenwardy where?
21:58 lumberJ the .deb should be on the app grid website, one sec
21:58 rubenwardy PPA
21:58 rubenwardy not .deb
21:58 lumberJ ah, sure, another sec :P
21:58 rubenwardy https://launchpad.net/~appg​rid/+archive/ubuntu/stable
21:59 lumberJ that looks right
23:01 Fixer sofar: you are right about goals, but is not MTG goals are already defined here https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/515 Why starting from scratch?
23:08 sofar Fixer: convincing paramat is not a good, healthy and satisfying hobby
23:09 sofar besides, it would be more work to convert mtg
23:09 Fixer sofar: fork minetest_game and included it alongside and rework it heavily?
23:09 sofar than to start from scratch
23:09 sofar it's too much baggage imho
23:09 sofar some parts are great, though
23:09 sofar sfinv works well, for instance
23:14 Shara Only issue with sfinv is that it depends on default
23:14 * Shara pokes rubenwardy again about that
23:15 Shara I really want to see more of the basic mods that games need being easily usable outside MTG, so people have an easier time of making other games.
23:15 sofar it's really only 2 lines of default that it needs
23:15 sofar the silly gui bg textures
23:16 Shara I know, already changed it in my version
23:16 sofar I patched that out myself too
23:16 sofar honestly sfinv can just carry those textures
23:16 Shara But it would be nice to sort that out in MTG, so other people can just drop it in to whatever they are working on
23:16 Shara Yes, that's what I did
23:17 Shara I just really like the idea of making mods non game specific where possible.
23:17 Shara You can't with some things, but for other things there'd no real excuse.
23:18 Shara there's*
23:18 rubenwardy Shara: #7068 is needed for that
23:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7068 -- Standard formspec templates (ie: default.gui_bg)
23:20 Shara Just got to hope someone finds time :)
23:20 Fixer everything relies on MTG this days
23:20 Fixer these
23:20 * Shara maybe wants to clone certain devs
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