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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-05-28

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Time Nick Message
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02:05 Ighalli Can anyone help me write the proper lua command to place a door?
02:06 Ighalli minetest.set_node({x=some_x, y=some_y, z=some_z}, {name="doors:door_steel_b_1"})
02:07 Ighalli that's what I've been trying, but it only makes the bottom node of the door, and right click interactions don't work
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03:02 bigfoot547 Ighalli: 2 things, doors now have 2 nodes: doors:door_wood: The whole node; doors:hidden: Tiny node to stop falling nodes. doors:hidden is placed above the door, make sure it has the same facedir.
03:02 bigfoot547 You are using old doors mod.
03:04 Ighalli so, stop using the modded door, put down `doors:door_wood` and above that put down `doors:hidden`?
03:04 bigfoot547 Yes.
03:04 Ighalli That's really helpfu! thanks!
03:05 Ighalli I guess I'll have to mod the doors myself to remove the windows...
03:08 bigfoot547 Try placing a doors:door_wood without the doors:hidden and try dropping sand on it. Then you will see the purpose of the second node.
03:17 Ighalli 2017-05-27 23:16:47: ERROR[Server]: Map::setNode(): Not allowing to place CONTENT_IGNORE while trying to replace "air" at (188,21,-10) (block (11,1,-1))
03:17 bigfoot547 Doing what?
03:17 Ighalli that's what I get for trying to use {name="doors:door_wood"}
03:17 bigfoot547 Ah. Is it in unloaded chunks?
03:18 bigfoot547 Mapblocks*
03:18 Ighalli i think it's loaded. it's only a handful of tiles away from me.  I'm trying to set the nodes
03:19 Ighalli i was able to replace the neighboring tiles with air and stone
03:20 bigfoot547 Well, doors:door_steel_b_1 is depricated, and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga​me/blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L446 says that it exists.
03:21 Ighalli yeah I disabled that door mod.  not using steel_b_1 at all now. hmm...
03:22 bigfoot547 The door mod is in mtgame
03:26 Ighalli the hidden node seems to be being placed.  or at least, I can't put a block there by hand anymore
03:26 bigfoot547 Ok, is the regular door node placed?
03:27 Ighalli no, the door_wood node throws that error
03:27 Ighalli and you can build in the node that it ought to occupy
03:29 bigfoot547 hmm... maybe append _a to the nodename. _a and _b are appended for double-door stuff. _a is for normal, _b = reversed.
03:29 bigfoot547 Confirmed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/​blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L314-L321
03:30 Ighalli that did it!
03:30 Ighalli thanks a ton!
03:31 bigfoot547 No problem! :)
03:31 Ighalli I'm new to lua and to MT. been trying to figure stuff out based on the wiki, but some things are just not to be found
03:31 bigfoot547 Mhm, the wiki needs a massive update.\
03:32 Ighalli I'm making a script that reads in ascii mapss (think nethack) and places them in the game world
03:32 bigfoot547 Oh.
03:32 Ighalli using it to run an RPG in first person when the group goes into a dungeon
03:32 Ighalli works pretty well, but the first time we used it, I had to place the map and then go around putting in the doors by hand
03:33 bigfoot547 Ah. Well, glad I could help!
03:33 bigfoot547 :)
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07:03 nerzhul merging #5836 in ~10mins
07:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5836 -- Added missing levels to logging menu by NathanSalapat
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10:14 Raven262 Hello red-arch
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10:27 red-001 wb Krock
10:27 Krock ty
10:32 * mylittlepony prances around in joy at seeing Krock
10:33 nerzhul well... is mtg enough stable for me generating a beta apk ?
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12:29 nerzhul merging #5839 in ~20 mins
12:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5839 -- guiVolumeChange: prevent wrong value position by using 1 label instead of 2 by nerzhul
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17:40 H-H-H hey guys does anyone know of a mod that adds the name of the selected item just above the hotbar similar to that other voxel game of a similar name ?
17:44 VanessaE unified inventory does that.
17:44 VanessaE its method is apparently somewhat hacky, but it works
17:45 VanessaE I think by now, CSM could also be used
17:45 VanessaE not sure though
17:51 H-H-H ty VanessaE ive been away from minetest for a while and am just getting a server setup again for the familly :)
17:52 H-H-H i might have to grab the code i need and implement it in a seperate mod as i have the MC crafting like mod installed which does change the inv
18:03 H-H-H ty again VanessaE mod made and working
18:03 VanessaE good deal
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18:18 Zeno` merging #5800 in 10 minutes
18:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
18:19 Zeno` Despite objections from the "community" it's not their decision
18:20 kilbith closing, re-opening, and then merging on your own decision... your mental stability is kind of questionable
18:20 sfan5 your commit does not even fall into the "trivial" category
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18:20 Krock I disagree
18:20 sfan5 even if it did you couldn't merge it because it's not a fix
18:20 Zeno` what do you mean not a fix?
18:21 red-001 its a workaround for the existence of the credit tab
18:21 Krock neither Shara nor VE belong to this list, sorry.
18:21 kilbith ^
18:21 Zeno` Krock, celeron55 agreed that Shara should be added
18:21 Zeno` I did not asked about VE
18:22 celeron55 i said i don't have anything against it
18:22 Zeno` yeah
18:22 Krock that's supposed to mean "do what you want, I'm neutal"
18:22 celeron55 well i didn't say "should"
18:22 celeron55 don't misquote me
18:23 Zeno` celeron55, I apologise. You actually said what you just said
18:23 Fixer just you the damn git history and post top 20 contribs
18:23 Fixer you = use
18:23 VanessaE For the record:  I don't really care if my name gets moved up to "active" or not, though I certainly wouldn't complain.
18:24 Zeno` bugger it. The file is too controversial. Closed the PR again
18:28 kilbith your impulsivity seriously question your ability to perfom such duties
18:28 kilbith *perform
18:28 Zeno` That was not an impulse. It was a considered decision
18:29 VanessaE kilbith: technically speaking, that makes him well-suited for dev.
18:29 VanessaE after all, minetest is written by a bunch of "lunatics" :)
18:29 kilbith well, it's not like the first time you act that way and got scolded by other devs
18:29 Shara It feels a bit like hunting season on devs.
18:30 Shara I wonder how many we'll have left at this rate.
18:30 VanessaE dev season!  admin season!  dev season!  admin season!  dev season -- fire!  *BANG*
18:30 * Krock runs away.  delete this;
18:31 Fixer https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480​x480/e35/12357700_464469330405959_1963486238_n.jpg​?ig_cache_key=MTEzNzMwMzY5MjA2NDM3NjIzNA%3D%3D.2
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18:32 VanessaE heh
18:34 Zeno` kilbith, the core devs said they would not support me merging it so I did not
18:34 Zeno` I closed it based on my own evaluation
18:34 kilbith Zeno`> merging #5800 in 10 minutes
18:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
18:35 Zeno` kilbith, and objections were raised so I did not
18:35 Zeno` those are the rules
18:35 kilbith you did not get a 2nd approval before they raised
18:35 kilbith ;)
18:36 Zeno` I didn't need one because in my opinion the PR was trivial
18:36 Zeno` just leave it
18:36 Zeno` I followed the rules to the letter
18:36 sfan5 in fact you didn't
18:36 Zeno` sfan5, how not?
18:37 Krock merging the own PR with one approval is ok as long there are no disapprovals (or how to name them()
18:37 Krock )
18:37 Zeno` No, a trivial PR needs no approval from a second dev
18:37 sfan5 "If you have a small patch, fixing some compiler error or other trivial mistake," quote end
18:38 sfan5 yours does not confirm to this criteria
18:38 Krock it's maintenance
18:38 VanessaE sfan5: to be fair, I've seen "trivial" patches go in that carried more risk than Zeno`'s credits did.
18:38 Zeno` sfan5, the trivial label had been on that PR since it was opened
18:38 sfan5 its not about the label applied to the torrent
18:38 sfan5 uh
18:38 Zeno` no core dev objected and said it was not trivial
18:38 sfan5 PR
18:39 sfan5 it's about whether your PR matches the description given in the rules
18:39 Zeno` editing text is trivial
18:39 sfan5 indeed
18:39 sfan5 but that is not the kind of trivial the rule references
18:39 Zeno` so the PR was trivial
18:39 sfan5 yes
18:40 kilbith why did you close this even
18:40 kilbith you could have found a compromise
18:41 Zeno` kilbith, because I don't want to be involved with it anymore
18:41 VanessaE just because it's closed doesn't mean it can't still be merged as-is
18:41 VanessaE (or with changes)
18:41 Krock indeed. adapting it shouldn't be a problem
18:42 Shara just direct to contributors on github and have done really.
18:43 red-001 ^
18:43 red-001 just wipe the contributor section of the credits if it causes this much drama
18:43 Shara I don't really think I deserve to be included, but on the other hand there's people on there that I am certainly making far more active contributions than. It's just silly.
18:43 Zeno` just get rid of the tab altogether if you ask me
18:43 Shara But probably no way to make everyone happy.
18:44 Zeno` nobody reads it anyway
18:45 Zeno` and it's a pain and HARD to update because it always upsets someone
18:45 Zeno` just get rid of it
18:46 VanessaE all right damn it.  celeron55, would you please merge that PR so we can stop this?
18:47 VanessaE alter it, don't alter it, I don't care.  just merge the fucking thing.
18:47 Thomas-S How about removing the contributor section (as suggested above) because it doesn't carry additional information in comparison to the git history, but instead name a few contributors that contributed very, very good things since the last release (e.g. juhdanad for light fixing or numberZero for smooth lightning)?
18:49 Fixer millersman for water flow :}
18:49 Shara Thomas-S: then people will likely argue over which things were good enough
18:50 red-001 ^
18:50 red-001 no easy way to win this
18:51 Thomas-S That would definitely be a problem. Maybe this could be solved by letting this decision being made by a special group of active community members. It would be forbidden to influence their decision or to argue with them about their decision.
18:52 celeron55 well, i would look at this from the standpoint that there actually is a finite list of contributors even if absolutely anything counts
18:53 celeron55 altough it seems people want the list to be much smaller than that
18:53 celeron55 it's a weird issue
18:54 kilbith too much people in credits and it's no longer honorific for anyone
18:54 red-001 or it's just a large project
18:54 kilbith no, not really
18:55 celeron55 i guess that's true
18:57 celeron55 a per-release contributor list would seem fine to me, but i'm lazy and adding more stuff to do for releases might not be a good idea; then it would be very honorific which might be nice
19:06 celeron55 i feel like if contributors other than engine developers are listed, then with them it should be listed what they've been doing for being included in the list
19:07 VanessaE nothing wrong with that, but how would you categorize someone who does multiple things?
19:08 VanessaE I mean, there's only just so much room to include such a thing
19:08 celeron55 i guess just pick the thing that most closest affects the engine
19:08 celeron55 as it's the engine's credits list anyway
19:08 VanessaE sounds fair.
19:08 rubenwardy I'll do that, if you like
19:12 celeron55 this is very non-trivial though, nobody has an objective viewpoint for telling who's done enough to be on the list
19:13 celeron55 i could try, but the end result would probably be worse than just fighting here about it
19:13 VanessaE heh
19:16 rubenwardy my algorithm will be to include every non-trivial contributor from the release (more than X commits, not counting documentation/translation changes), and to include the X top contributors for the last 3 years. This should be automated though, ideally
19:16 rubenwardy s/X top/Y top/g
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19:19 celeron55 something like that does seem fair
19:19 red-002 +1
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19:20 rubenwardy at what point should someone be a previous contributor?
19:20 rubenwardy 1 year?
19:20 celeron55 then if there are some honorary mentions or whatever, they can be explicitly added in addition to whatever that algorithm results in
19:20 VanessaE rubenwardy: since the last major release maybe
19:23 rubenwardy was thexyz ever a core dev?
19:24 rubenwardy oh wait, they are there
19:36 rubenwardy right
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19:52 rubenwardy #5840
19:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5840 -- Update credits by rubenwardy
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20:09 Shara rubenwardy: how many is more than x?
20:10 rubenwardy X=3, in the end
20:10 rubenwardy and only counted minetest engine commits
20:10 Shara so people with mroe than three in this release are added?
20:11 Shara more*
20:11 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/graphs/contributors?from=2016-1​2-20&to=2017-05-28&type=c
20:11 Shara Why are none of mine showing on that link?
20:12 rubenwardy what's your username, again?
20:13 Shara ezhh
20:13 Shara I've had four commits in this year
20:13 Shara I'm not saying I should be there, but Zeno included me because I have made commits.
20:13 Shara You'r PR would add people who don't appear to have made a single commit this year.
20:13 rubenwardy huh
20:14 rubenwardy you should be in that contributors list
20:14 rubenwardy that is very strange, you should be between est31, wuzzy and adrido with 4
20:16 VanessaE maybe they appear under different names?
20:16 VanessaE like foo <bar@baz> in one case, foo <bar_something_else@baz> in another case
20:17 VanessaE I've seen that a lot in commit logs.
20:17 rubenwardy the commits show up here though: https://github.com/minetest/​minetest/commits?author=Ezhh
20:17 Shara based on the criteria, there are others who I think should be added but are missed as well
20:17 VanessaE I see why, rubenwardy
20:18 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-related/minetest_core$ git log |grep -i Ezhh
20:18 VanessaE Author: ezhh <owlecho@live.com>
20:18 VanessaE Author: Ezhh <owlecho@live.com>
20:18 VanessaE (plus two more)
20:18 VanessaE note the case
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20:19 Shara Tenplus1 possibly qualifies as well, at least based on the dates since some on the list seems to have last commited
20:19 kilbith so it's actually counted from the number of commits?
20:19 kilbith irregardless of their importance?
20:19 rubenwardy I also went down LOC
20:20 Shara kilbith: who defines importance? The game was unplayable to me without one of my own commits.
20:20 rubenwardy and I checked that the commits were none trivial
20:20 VanessaE rubenwardy: commits * LoC * (# days between last commit and last major release)
20:21 VanessaE that seems like a fair weighting method
20:21 kilbith a single commit can transcend the whole software
20:21 VanessaE sure, if it has a shitton of changes
20:21 Shara Like I said anyway, I'm fine with just not listing contributors. But if we are saying the criteria is a certain thing, anyone in that criteria should be included
20:22 nore kilbith: we can say that anyone satisfying some criteria will be included, and include some more people for exceptional reasons such as the one you just mentionned
20:23 halt_ included in what?
20:27 rubenwardy tomorrow I could look into making a script to automate this
20:27 rubenwardy given that the contributors list doesn't seem to work
20:28 VanessaE rubenwardy: don't like my weighted idea?
20:28 rubenwardy I'll use something like that
20:28 VanessaE ok
20:28 red-002 Zeno`, did you lift the ban on grandolf?
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21:44 red-002 huh how is Grandolf joining if he is banned?
21:44 red-002 I don't think this $a:Grandolf thing is working
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22:43 * H-H-H has only just noticed that in default the chests actually open lol
22:52 rubenwardy H-H-H: thank sofar for that
22:52 VanessaE and thank me for putting the textures right ;)
22:52 H-H-H only thing is they dont seem to play nice with technic and or pipeworks lol
22:52 VanessaE H-H-H: fixes coming soon-ish.
22:53 VanessaE after 0.4.16 goes out
22:53 VanessaE also, wrong channel :P
22:53 H-H-H nice :) ty :P
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23:11 bigfoot547 Should I make a system to back up world folders? And auto-save?
23:15 bigfoot547 I will make the backup directory .minetest/backups/<worldname>.
23:17 bigfoot547 Would that be a good idea?
23:23 VanessaE I think most server owners use a script for that
23:24 VanessaE i.e. cron to run a script that does basically `killall -INT minetest`, `rsync` to initiate the backup, and then restart the server afterward
23:24 VanessaE but some kind of generic backup script might be useful
23:25 bigfoot547 I think world-auto backup might be good because you don't need to restart the server.
23:26 bigfoot547 Should auto-save warnings be in public chat? I think so because that means that if that is a big server, lag-spike incoming!
23:30 VanessaE auto-backup would probably be impossible though
23:30 bigfoot547 wHY?
23:30 VanessaE the purpose of a true backup is to have something you can refer back to (or restore from) that hasn't changed in X amount of time
23:30 VanessaE whereas what you propose sounds more like simply keeping two copies of the map
23:30 VanessaE (i.e. realtime)
23:31 bigfoot547 well, you could have a worldname-20170528 and have maybe 3 beck in time?
23:32 VanessaE and for large worlds, the time it takes to copy a map is measured in minutes, not milliseconds, so it's not something that can be done with the server running
23:32 VanessaE my public servers keep two days' worth of backups
23:32 VanessaE in total, those backups use 115 GB
23:33 Shara It's not even possible for some of us to keep multiple backups
23:33 Shara They get big.
23:33 bigfoot547 Hm. Maybe keep 1 backup, and make a /backup command.
23:33 VanessaE I used to keep a full week's worth of backups, but as Shara said, too big.
23:33 rubenwardy with a transaction based database, couldn't you make the database readonly whilst backing up, and instead write changes as transactions until it's no longer read only
23:33 VanessaE bigfoot547: still impossible.  big worlds are REALLY big, like 10-20 GB
23:33 VanessaE you just can't back that up while the server's online and expect reasonably low lag
23:34 rubenwardy without transactions you'd definitely need to stop the server
23:34 VanessaE rubenwardy: perhaps, but which databases can do that?
23:34 rubenwardy MySQL can
23:34 rubenwardy It's transaction based at least
23:35 bigfoot547 Soooo, basically, no, no backups.
23:35 VanessaE not while the server's up, no.
23:36 VanessaE shut down, rsync to your backup storage, start up.
23:36 bigfoot547 Ok...
23:37 bigfoot547 Well, for small maps, it could still be useful right?
23:38 VanessaE even the smallest map will still be a couple hundred megs
23:39 bigfoot547 So 100,000 bytes on a 1,000,000,000,000 byte hard-drive. I don't see a problem
23:39 VanessaE it isn't a question of storage
23:39 VanessaE it's a question of time
23:39 bigfoot547 How long would it take?
23:40 red-002 do any of the databases minetes supports support snaps shots or something like that?
23:40 VanessaE taking a live backup would take time away from the server, thus preventing it from communicating with clients, and again, you would not end up with a map that hasn't been touched in X hours/days/etc.
23:40 VanessaE red-002: I think redis does?  not sure
23:40 VanessaE bigfoot547: how long?  a few minutes on a slower hard drive I suppose
23:40 VanessaE less than a minute on a good SSD
23:41 red-002 wouldn't that be the best way to do regular backups?
23:41 VanessaE but server lag is generally measured in tenths of seconds
23:41 VanessaE red-002: not really, because there are other housekeeping things you should generally do, such as clearing out abandoned accounts, generating overview maps, uploading your backups to FTP, etc.
23:58 bigfoot547 Well, back when I didn't write code for minetest, I would have segfaults and my map would get corrupted, and I would get mad. If only I had a backup...
23:58 bigfoot547 Also my saves were, like hundreds of kilobytes.
23:58 VanessaE right, and if you were doing some kind of live backups, likely both maps would get corrupted at the same time
23:59 bigfoot547 I was not doing a live backup. My idea was not to a live backup, but rather to do auto-saving.

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