| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
paramat |
ok i'm going to revert those collisionbox and stepheight commits, the proper implementation is not easy and will take time to work on |
| 01:09 |
paramat |
there it is #5733 |
| 01:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5733 -- Revert custom player collision box and step height commits by paramat |
| 01:11 |
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| 01:19 |
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| 01:39 |
Wayward_One |
#5734 |
| 01:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5734 -- Android crash on startup |
| 02:31 |
paramat |
#5733 tested will merge very soon |
| 02:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5733 -- Revert custom player collision box and step height commits by paramat |
| 02:36 |
paramat |
nore ^ if you're around |
| 02:37 |
nore |
paramat: couldn't we just make a protocol bump and set these if protocol is too old? |
| 02:39 |
paramat |
yes, i was discussing with TeT about this, a protocol bump seems good, but a fix is needed urgently, the correct implementation will take time |
| 02:40 |
nore |
hmm ok |
| 02:40 |
nore |
try not to revert everything though |
| 02:40 |
nore |
keep the #defines |
| 02:41 |
nore |
use PLAYER_DEFAULT_STEPHEIGHT |
| 02:42 |
paramat |
we don't need to keep the defines |
| 02:42 |
nore |
it's better code style and it will minimize the changes needed again when doing the new implementation |
| 02:43 |
paramat |
PLAYER_DEFAULT_STEPHEIGHT is not used if the PR is reverted |
| 02:44 |
nore |
well, you would do s/0.6f/PLAYER_DEFAULT_STEPHEIGHT/ |
| 02:45 |
nore |
(in localplayer.cpp) |
| 02:45 |
paramat |
risky, other literals could be 0.6f |
| 02:45 |
nore |
I mean, only at the place when you do the change back |
| 02:46 |
nore |
ie. line 348 |
| 02:46 |
paramat |
ah |
| 02:47 |
paramat |
well i either merge this now or someone else does what you suggest, i've spent 2.5 days work on these bugs due to hasty merging on Sat and i've had enough now :] |
| 02:47 |
paramat |
*working |
| 02:47 |
nore |
we also have that ugly #IF __ANDROID__ thing that I don't know by what it should be replaced (I mean, if you change the stepheight, what should happen on Android?) |
| 02:47 |
paramat |
do you want to take over on this PR and merge it tonight? |
| 02:47 |
nore |
yeah, just revert, we will figure a better implementation |
| 02:48 |
nore |
just merge your thing |
| 02:48 |
paramat |
ok |
| 02:48 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 02:48 |
paramat |
could you +1? |
| 02:48 |
nore |
hmmm github seems broken |
| 02:49 |
paramat |
no prob will edit later, PR is tested |
| 02:50 |
paramat |
we should be more careful at the next meeting |
| 02:52 |
nore |
https://www.reddit.com/r/github/comments/69zqxu/is_it_just_me_or_is_js_on_github_broken/ <-- ok so I'm not the only one experiencing github problems :/ |
| 02:53 |
nore |
well the problem is that the PRs were agreed upon but not really tested :/ we should indeed be more careful next time |
| 02:55 |
paramat |
merging |
| 03:01 |
paramat |
done. yes that android increase of stepheight should not occur when not touching ground |
| 03:04 |
nore |
Yes but even so |
| 03:05 |
nore |
If we increase step height, how should the step height on Android? |
| 03:11 |
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| 03:12 |
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| 03:12 |
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| 03:14 |
paramat |
ah i see |
| 03:14 |
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| 03:17 |
paramat |
maybe .. for 'touching ground', android should have a default of 1.1, if customised use whatever is set |
| 03:34 |
sofar |
ugh what a day |
| 03:34 |
sofar |
is it tuesday yet? |
| 03:36 |
VanessaE |
not for 24 more mins. |
| 03:47 |
sofar |
I wish. Still 3 more hours of torture remaining |
| 04:00 |
benrob0329 |
Aaand its Tuesday |
| 04:17 |
sofar |
!seen pilzadam |
| 04:17 |
ShadowBot |
sofar: I haven't seen pilzadam in #minetest-dev. |
| 04:18 |
sofar |
I vote for removing pilzadam as minetest-dev |
| 04:18 |
sofar |
he hasn't been around for 6+ months |
| 04:18 |
sofar |
https://github.com/PilzAdam |
| 04:18 |
sofar |
0 contributions in the last 12 months |
| 04:21 |
sofar |
@5735 |
| 04:21 |
sofar |
#5735 |
| 04:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5735 -- Move Pilzadam to previous developers. by sofar |
| 05:02 |
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| 05:14 |
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| 05:56 |
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| 05:58 |
red-001 |
#5736 |
| 05:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5736 -- Fix android main menu. by red-001 |
| 06:21 |
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| 06:56 |
nerzhul |
merging #5735 |
| 06:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5735 -- Move Pilzadam to previous developers. by sofar |
| 06:57 |
nerzhul |
difficult to maintain PR outside 153, this evening we really should look at refcent PR some are mergeable |
| 07:05 |
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| 07:06 |
burli |
Hi |
| 07:17 |
|
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| 08:27 |
|
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| 08:28 |
nerzhul |
merging #5720 in 15 mins (3 approvals) |
| 08:28 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5720 -- Add cancel button to password change menu. by red-001 |
| 08:37 |
Zeno` |
nerzhul, what's the problem with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5719/files/513089cbdaf9330ac2e0c1f6577ad51adfd551c9#diff-18513665750ef5adf42b5ec29e14162eR4538 ? |
| 08:38 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, they null terminate string, but the remaining area is undefined |
| 08:38 |
Zeno` |
and? |
| 08:38 |
nerzhul |
it can be a security problem to access random memory |
| 08:39 |
nerzhul |
(random previously used memory) |
| 08:39 |
Zeno` |
but the code doesn't access random memory |
| 08:39 |
Zeno` |
does it? |
| 08:39 |
nerzhul |
the code doesn't permit but when allocating char buffer you should ensure it's properly inited to zero (it can be a problem in BSD systems) |
| 08:40 |
Zeno` |
I'm pretty sure that if you had = {0} or even memset() after the buffer allocation the compiler is probably going to optimise it away anyhow |
| 08:41 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, absolutely not |
| 08:41 |
Zeno` |
it does on Windows and Linux |
| 08:41 |
burli |
nerzhul, just one question: Will old mob APIs become obsolete if you change the API? |
| 08:41 |
Zeno` |
which is why there are special (non-portable) functions for setting memory to 0 |
| 08:41 |
nerzhul |
i already saw FreeBSD and OpenBSD problems when area not is properlyu onitialized, it just crash when you read area (pointer valid) |
| 08:42 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, hopefully in C++11 char buf[4096] = {}; is portable to do bzero :p |
| 08:42 |
nerzhul |
burli, there is no mod api in core currently |
| 08:42 |
nerzhul |
there is just mod doing crap which current lua entity api |
| 08:42 |
nerzhul |
it's slow and crappy, but works like it can |
| 08:43 |
burli |
nerzhul, I mean your comment here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5729#issuecomment-300077859 |
| 08:43 |
nerzhul |
yes i know |
| 08:44 |
nerzhul |
i can just say, wait for next release, we will re-do that properly and more things to have a nice way to handle mobs with proper prediction (example: mob:move_to(x,y,z)) (pathfind calculated client side & server side with ticks for the movement) |
| 08:45 |
burli |
So my pathfinder is also obsolete |
| 08:45 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, discard my comment as it's a client side issue and there are no BSD users on desktop :) |
| 08:45 |
nerzhul |
keep it somewhere, this can be useful coreside if it works properly |
| 08:46 |
burli |
Great. Lots of work for nothing |
| 08:50 |
nerzhul |
burli, your pathfinder is in Lua ? |
| 08:51 |
nerzhul |
and burli not exactly because you are invited to help us to make real mobs API when we start the project in next release, your PF work is appreciated :) |
| 08:52 |
burli |
nerzhul, you remember this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5479 |
| 08:52 |
burli |
What does PF mean? |
| 08:52 |
nerzhul |
pathfinding |
| 08:53 |
nerzhul |
i remember this discussing and i hope we can see this work at a moment |
| 08:53 |
kilbith |
no need to talk C++11 to Zeno`, he knows why |
| 08:53 |
burli |
I have absolutely no idea about csm |
| 08:53 |
burli |
I don't even know how to run a csm mod |
| 08:54 |
nerzhul |
burli, what is the relation between CSM and pathfinding, there is not |
| 08:55 |
burli |
I assume that the pathfinder on client side works similar than on server side |
| 08:57 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, it's because I'm too old |
| 08:58 |
Zeno` |
But I still think the compiler in C++11 is allowed to optimise setting memory to 0 away if it wants to |
| 08:58 |
kilbith |
and your cognitivity sucks also |
| 08:58 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, that's right. Most days I don't even know who I am |
| 08:58 |
kilbith |
lol |
| 09:01 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, i don't know for optimization, but in c++11 you can initialize all array or STL containers with = {}; operator |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
also you can do some nice things, imagine std::vector<std::pair<int,int>> a; |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
you can do a.push_back({1,1}); |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
:) |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
it's easier to write STL containers |
| 09:04 |
nerzhul |
5720 merged |
| 09:04 |
nerzhul |
ty red-001 |
| 09:05 |
nerzhul |
red-001, can you explain me what is core.start in #5736 and what is the bug ? |
| 09:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5736 -- Fix android main menu. by red-001 |
| 09:05 |
nerzhul |
i see the main menu doesn't launch, but why ? |
| 09:21 |
burli |
nerzhul, would it be helpful if I try to port the pathfinder to the client side? Or what are you planning on this? |
| 09:23 |
nerzhul |
burli, continue to optimize your work, atm we have 0.4.16 to finish and when the project will be opened you will be welcome to contribute with us about it :) |
| 09:24 |
burli |
Ok |
| 09:57 |
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| 10:21 |
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| 10:34 |
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| 10:35 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 10:39 |
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| 10:40 |
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| 10:42 |
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| 10:59 |
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| 11:10 |
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| 11:23 |
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| 13:12 |
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| 13:13 |
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| 13:35 |
kilbith |
https://lut.im/H98HJ4FUk0/6Uq3dQKB2UQLqtCk.png |
| 13:35 |
kilbith |
wth |
| 13:37 |
kilbith |
oh, this only happens when pipeworks's enabled |
| 13:37 |
VanessaE |
it's not pipeworks, per se. |
| 13:37 |
kilbith |
cc: VanessaE, nore |
| 13:37 |
VanessaE |
it's the UV-mapped chest textures in mt_game |
| 13:37 |
VanessaE |
I have a PR open to put them back right. |
| 13:37 |
nerzhul |
kilbith, it's future art :p |
| 13:37 |
kilbith |
look, when I disable pipeworks, the chests look back normal |
| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
it's. not. pipeworks. |
| 13:38 |
VanessaE |
see above. |
| 13:39 |
kilbith |
I'm not saying it's pipeworks' fault |
| 13:39 |
kilbith |
but there's a relation between MTG' chests and this mod |
| 13:39 |
VanessaE |
I know. |
| 13:40 |
VanessaE |
see my PR in mt_game for a fix. |
| 13:41 |
kilbith |
how about adapting downstream stuff to upstream changes then? |
| 13:41 |
kilbith |
yeah, I know breaking mods sucks still |
| 13:42 |
VanessaE |
because upstream's change was a stupid change (imho) |
| 13:43 |
kilbith |
that was certainly not worth the breakage, I agree |
| 13:43 |
kilbith |
MTG turned out to be a cesspit long time ago, so meh |
| 13:44 |
kilbith |
since PilzAdam left, basically |
| 13:45 |
kilbith |
fortunaly I'm paid to work on that shit |
| 13:53 |
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| 14:00 |
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cx384 joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:01 |
* twoelk |
looksup cesspit |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:32 |
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| 14:39 |
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| 14:46 |
Zeno` |
should MTG be removed from the minetest project? |
| 14:47 |
kilbith |
+1 |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
because I am sick to death of seeing notifications about in when I join github when I can't even comment on them |
| 14:47 |
kilbith |
let's put it directly in competition with the other subgames |
| 14:47 |
DS-minetest |
since you get mtg together with core i dont think so |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
DS-minetest, yes but core devs cannot have a say about it |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
so, it should be a different project IMO |
| 14:48 |
kilbith |
MTG does not deserve to be in its ivory tower |
| 14:48 |
DS-minetest |
hmm, can't you just unwatch mtg? |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
DS-minetest, not without unwatching engine changes (afaik) |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
but that's beside the point. Either MTG is part of minetest or it's not |
| 14:50 |
twoelk |
hm - if mtg is so bad what should a replacement look like or is the idea ti ship the engine gameless? |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
and at the moment it's not. So it should be a separate project |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
twoelk, I have commit privs to MTG but I am not "allowed" to comment or make commits to it |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
this doesn't make sense |
| 14:51 |
Zeno` |
I didn't say it was bad |
| 14:51 |
twoelk |
er, parsing error - ?? |
| 14:52 |
twoelk |
you have privs that are not accepted? |
| 14:52 |
twoelk |
can't be the fault of mtg |
| 14:52 |
Zeno` |
no. I can do anything I like with the MTG repo. The only reason I don't is out of respect |
| 14:53 |
Zeno` |
but... there is are guidelines as to when I (or other coredevs) can intervene |
| 14:53 |
twoelk |
guess I missed something :-D |
| 14:53 |
Zeno` |
are no guideline* |
| 14:54 |
Zeno` |
and that does not seem right |
| 14:54 |
Zeno` |
either MTG is part of minetest or it's not |
| 14:54 |
twoelk |
ah, so the fault of missing working respectable guidelines |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
is MTG part of minetest? |
| 14:56 |
twoelk |
well being a subgame it might be a subpart in contrast to something parallel |
| 14:57 |
twoelk |
but - for me nondev it always was part of mt |
| 14:57 |
Zeno` |
Ok, well core devs should be able to contribute to it |
| 14:58 |
Zeno` |
and discuss it |
| 14:58 |
Zeno` |
etc etc etc |
| 14:58 |
Zeno` |
I'm not even sure if celeron55 is allowed to push a commit to MTG |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
which is kind of crazy |
| 14:59 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, i don't receive MT game notifications because i'm not in the group |
| 14:59 |
VanessaE |
mt_game should be treated as part of Minetest. Full Stop. |
| 14:59 |
twoelk |
I always thought mtg schould be the first example reference for a modder and as such the code of it should showcase how things are prefered to be done |
| 14:59 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, minetest_game is partially a part of minetest distribution (linux packages, Windows, Android) |
| 15:00 |
Zeno` |
nerzhul, so why aren't we involved with it? |
| 15:00 |
nerzhul |
for a modder minimal should be enhanced to add examples (i added recently a pseudo unit test in minimal calling player attributes API |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: "minimal" should be deleted. |
| 15:00 |
nerzhul |
personnaly i'm too far from this project, i want to have core side features and many minetest_game discussions are not on my interests |
| 15:01 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE, no |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
there's really no reason for it to exist anymore |
| 15:01 |
nerzhul |
minimal it's a developper test |
| 15:01 |
Zeno` |
minimal is useful for doing valgrind tests etc |
| 15:01 |
nerzhul |
it's nice, minimal content, you can test easily each development |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
yes, which is exactly why it needs to die |
| 15:01 |
nerzhul |
VanessaE, maybe we should drop it for end user distribution but not for us |
| 15:01 |
twoelk |
minmal could use some more testing possabilities and tools than |
| 15:01 |
VanessaE |
because if you aren't using mt_game for dev testing, you're doing something wrong. |
| 15:01 |
Zeno` |
since we don't have any say in MTG then it's not suitable for testing |
| 15:02 |
nerzhul |
and i agree with Zeno` valgrind & callgrind like minimal because there are few lua calls permitting to focus on core performance |
| 15:02 |
nerzhul |
as many said, minetest is an engine, and when testing an engine i don't want to be polluted by MT game ABM |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
Zeno`: my point is, if you don't use mt_game for testing, you are not testing with an environment the average user will have in front of him/her. |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
and that's bad. |
| 15:03 |
celeron55 |
minimal should probably be renamed to "example" and the content should be totally redone to better fit the purpose instead of being a snapshot of what minetest_game essentially was at some point |
| 15:03 |
twoelk |
still minimal could use more ingame info like an expanded F5 |
| 15:03 |
celeron55 |
and it shouldn't be distributed to end users |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: it's sometimes essential to not run an entire game as debugging modes are slower, especially something like valgrind |
| 15:04 |
celeron55 |
and you get more control in what happens |
| 15:05 |
celeron55 |
some random game content you don't care about when developing won't crash the engine |
| 15:05 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: I can respect that. |
| 15:05 |
VanessaE |
test with "example" or "minimal" or whatever you wanna call it, then test again with mt_game./ |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
THAT I wouldn't be against. |
| 15:06 |
celeron55 |
nobody is arguing against that |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
good. :) |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
just sometimes one gets the impression that testing stops at "minimal" more often than not. |
| 15:07 |
Fixer |
Zeno`: in notifications just press arrow above to mark them as read and you are done |
| 15:07 |
nerzhul |
no, i don't want to test with mt_game, if there is a bug in mt_game it's mt_game problem, minimal should have one example of each function, not hundreds :) |
| 15:08 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: unless the hypothetical bug is in the engine and isn't revealed by testing under minimal. |
| 15:08 |
VanessaE |
expecting minimal to have examples of every possible API call is probably excessive |
| 15:08 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: it would seem at least one person is arguing against it ;) |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:09 |
Zeno` |
VanessaE, there is no point testing with MTG because we're not allowed to fix a bug in it even if we find one |
| 15:09 |
Zeno` |
so minimal is what we use |
| 15:09 |
* twoelk |
thinks both, minimal and mtg could be improved to serve their purpose better |
| 15:09 |
VanessaE |
that needs to change, but by "bug" I mean engine bugs |
| 15:09 |
VanessaE |
anything mt_game exposes that minimal doesn't. |
| 15:12 |
Zeno` |
Fixer, thanks. I didn't realise how to make all the notifications on github marked as read :p |
| 15:14 |
Zeno` |
THe point is... either MTG is part of minetest or it isn't |
| 15:15 |
Zeno` |
if it's not then it should be removed from the minetest project on github |
| 15:17 |
Zeno` |
if it *is* part of the minetest then any core dev should be able to contribute to it |
| 15:18 |
twoelk |
I rather like it within the mt project as you then have one place you can download everything to play. Putting it somewhere else would be too confusing for those new to the project. |
| 15:18 |
Zeno` |
not a select few chosen by who knows what method |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:19 |
twoelk |
i don't understand why you don't let yourself get added to the mtg devs then |
| 15:19 |
rubenwardy |
Zeno`: you can select "ignore" on the watch combo box on the Minetest repo |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
twoelk, I am |
| 15:19 |
Zeno` |
twoelk, theoretically |
| 15:19 |
rubenwardy |
*Minetest Game |
| 15:20 |
rubenwardy |
http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development |
| 15:20 |
rubenwardy |
"Note: To prevent problems with the development like before Minetest Game is maintained by only seven people" |
| 15:20 |
Zeno` |
rubenwardy, that's old and out of date |
| 15:20 |
rubenwardy |
I don't know what the problems are |
| 15:21 |
rubenwardy |
well, http://dev.minetest.net/User:Rubenwardy/Minetest_Game_Development |
| 15:22 |
rubenwardy |
also the original link isn't out of date, all still applies |
| 15:22 |
Zeno` |
The problem is that onyl SOME core devs are "allowed" to comment or approve/disapprove MTG PRs |
| 15:22 |
Zeno` |
and that is not right |
| 15:23 |
rubenwardy |
only mtg core devs can vote, but all can comment |
| 15:23 |
Zeno` |
who are the mtg core devs and how are they chosen? |
| 15:23 |
Zeno` |
that is my point! |
| 15:23 |
rubenwardy |
I don't care either way |
| 15:23 |
Zeno` |
and based on your comment mtg is a different project. right? |
| 15:24 |
rubenwardy |
the same as core devs are chosen - by existing core dev proposals, or self-proposing, and celeron55 ultimately |
| 15:24 |
twoelk |
maybe you failed to state your interest at some vital point while things where organized? |
| 15:24 |
Zeno` |
rubenwardy, that is not true. I can commit to mtg |
| 15:24 |
rubenwardy |
no you can't |
| 15:24 |
rubenwardy |
you have github rights |
| 15:24 |
Zeno` |
I cna |
| 15:24 |
Zeno` |
yeah, because it's part of minetest |
| 15:24 |
rubenwardy |
but you would be removed from the minetest organisation if you abused the access righs |
| 15:25 |
Zeno` |
really? |
| 15:25 |
Zeno` |
where is that stated? |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
same as if you merged a PR to minetest/minetest without approval |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
ultimately anyway |
| 15:25 |
Zeno` |
so it's a different project then |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
how are you defining project |
| 15:26 |
Zeno` |
"minetest" as a whole |
| 15:26 |
celeron55 |
the mtg team was made smaller due to the rather extreme design-by-committee flaws caused to it when all core devs were involved in it |
| 15:26 |
celeron55 |
making a game with a huge programming-focused team doesn't quite work |
| 15:26 |
celeron55 |
or didn't, in fact |
| 15:27 |
rubenwardy |
maybe the compromise here is to let all core devs do patches etc, and approve implementation, but only mtg devs do concept/game direction |
| 15:27 |
celeron55 |
i have never chosen the developers of mtg |
| 15:27 |
celeron55 |
i just threw it to the people who insisted in developing it after it was officially shut down |
| 15:28 |
celeron55 |
that's where the current mtg team originates from |
| 15:29 |
celeron55 |
it was re-opened and given to blockmen and some others that forked minetest_next from it |
| 15:31 |
Zeno` |
celeron55, so who are the non-core devs able to commit to it |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
I agree with making Minetest Game less of the status-quo however. The real power of Minetest isn't the mods imo, but the subgames |
| 15:31 |
Zeno` |
and if that's the argument then why are some core devs allowed to and not others? |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
Current MTG devs are: sfa_5, no_e, Shado_Ninja, par_mat, s_far, rubenwardy, and Kr_ck |
| 15:32 |
celeron55 |
the mtg team chooses the mtg team and it's their responsibility to publish who the team is |
| 15:33 |
celeron55 |
the purpose wasn't to put random people in an ivory tower but to give a good place for dedicated people to work on the official subgame that they wanted to work on |
| 15:34 |
celeron55 |
without all the hassle of trying to convince the entire core team on individual game ideas |
| 15:35 |
Zeno` |
I guess the problem is that with some core devs also being part of the game core devs (all of them?) then the direction of the engine is influenced by their opinions |
| 15:35 |
celeron55 |
sounds like a valid concern |
| 15:38 |
celeron55 |
maybe it could be enough if the mtg team is informed of the possible bias they have so that they can be mindful of it |
| 15:38 |
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| 15:40 |
celeron55 |
i think it would be good if the mtg team had many non-coredevs |
| 15:41 |
Zeno` |
I think it would be good if it had no core (engine) devs, but *shrug* |
| 15:41 |
celeron55 |
that's a difficult change to make in a short timespan, but maybe in the long term |
| 15:42 |
kilbith |
when you add a feature in MTG, it's important to know whether the engine's ready for it |
| 15:42 |
rubenwardy |
mtg dev is practically ran by paramat atm, so that would exclude him |
| 15:42 |
kilbith |
that's why it's important to be core-dev in order to maintain a subgame |
| 15:43 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, that's not possible atm |
| 15:44 |
kilbith |
there's real game designers, etc. etc. |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
rubenwardy, and that is a problem? paramat would just have to choose his preferred role |
| 15:44 |
kilbith |
*there's no |
| 15:45 |
celeron55 |
it seems either minetest has literally zero appeal to game designers or they all find something better to do |
| 15:45 |
kilbith |
exactly |
| 15:46 |
Zeno` |
kilbith, and that's not 100% true. The game maintainers if they need something should request that core engine devs implement whatever they might need. Not the same people saying "we need this" as those who add it to the engine |
| 15:46 |
kilbith |
that's right |
| 15:48 |
kilbith |
I often read paramat openly refusing any real artist to have an authority on the assets that goes in MTG or not |
| 15:50 |
kilbith |
that kind of behavior should stop, people should stick on their domain of expertise and do not self-improvise artist or whatever |
| 15:52 |
twoelk |
it often seems that while some devs may to seem unable to move when something is first thrown at them they later after some consideration may decide to change their initially negative stand - and paramat is no exception to this |
| 15:52 |
kilbith |
actually he sucks so hard in C++ and Lua that I don't even know why he has an official role in the upstream repos in the first place |
| 15:53 |
kilbith |
he's just specialist of a small niche: mapgen |
| 15:53 |
kilbith |
and that dofus can vote on anything |
| 15:54 |
twoelk |
he does get things happening - sort of |
| 15:56 |
twoelk |
and I disagree that the project can only be led by a master coder |
| 15:56 |
Fixer |
about permanent fps drop bug - catched it again I think, and literally at the same time (start of the bug) some random person says "lag" in chat (probably meaning fps drop down), not the first time i see this |
| 15:56 |
twoelk |
actually that might not be all that usefull to keep <a bunch of lunatics> focused |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
there is no need for the project to be led by a master coder |
| 15:57 |
Fixer |
debug question/begging: please send me a code to display number of particles drawed in F5 graph... |
| 15:57 |
kilbith |
there's no need for the project to be led by an incompetent |
| 15:58 |
Zeno` |
I don't think anyone has suggested that |
| 15:58 |
kilbith |
or at least the incompetent could have the decency to stick on the mapgen stuff and that's all |
| 15:58 |
twoelk |
what response are you expecting from using such a phrase? |
| 15:58 |
kilbith |
I'm talking to the non-developers here, already |
| 15:58 |
Zeno` |
A person who leads a project relies on people other than themselves |
| 15:59 |
kilbith |
*not talking |
| 15:59 |
Zeno` |
And, I'm going to say it... paramat is not suitable for that role |
| 16:00 |
Zeno` |
it's the reason I have not contributed at all in the last 3 months (apart from some very small comments on PRs) |
| 16:00 |
kilbith |
yup |
| 16:00 |
kilbith |
you're just one of the numerous people disgusted of contributing because of him |
| 16:01 |
twoelk |
maybe be polite enough to discuss this further when he is around |
| 16:01 |
kilbith |
oh he read us currently, no worry |
| 16:01 |
Zeno` |
twoelk, timezones |
| 16:03 |
Zeno` |
A recent example. Paramat saying that the ternary conditional operator needs parenthesis around the condition -- i.e. (a == b) ? 1 : 0 |
| 16:03 |
Zeno` |
that's just silly |
| 16:03 |
Zeno` |
(bad example I know) |
| 16:03 |
kilbith |
I have plenty of examples in mind about his silliness |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:03 |
nerzhul |
it's not needed, but i agree taht for readability |
| 16:04 |
Zeno` |
nerzhul, it's harder to read |
| 16:04 |
kilbith |
he don't even know what compiler he uses |
| 16:04 |
rubenwardy |
I find it easier to read |
| 16:04 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, i think it's more taste, i don't complain :) |
| 16:04 |
rubenwardy |
however it's a nonissue |
| 16:04 |
rubenwardy |
and not something I'd comment on |
| 16:05 |
Zeno` |
nerzhul, that was a contrived example. In general parenthesis where they are not needed makes things harder to read |
| 16:06 |
Zeno` |
but, meh |
| 16:06 |
kilbith |
the essential of his "reviews" is just "spaces around the operator please" |
| 16:06 |
Hijiri |
nerzhul: there are plans for engine NPCs? |
| 16:06 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, in sofar and my head yes |
| 16:06 |
Zeno` |
you may as well write x = (a) + (b); following that logic lol |
| 16:06 |
Hijiri |
nerzhul: alright |
| 16:07 |
Hijiri |
so I guess just discussions then and no github issue or anything I could read? |
| 16:07 |
nerzhul |
more than just NPC, i have a server side spell API on my fork, which need to be ported to MT and improved with client side abilities |
| 16:07 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, no discussion about this moment, we need to merge many PR for 0.4.16 PR then no more plans atm |
| 16:07 |
Hijiri |
alright |
| 16:08 |
Hijiri |
client side abilities meaning a specific "abilities" mechanic? |
| 16:08 |
nerzhul |
when release will be done i will open projects for: NPC and C++11 switch |
| 16:08 |
Hijiri |
or just "client stuff" |
| 16:08 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, imagine: npc:cast_spell('default:fireball', {pos}) |
| 16:09 |
Hijiri |
what do you mean by client side abilities though? |
| 16:09 |
Hijiri |
stuff done through CSM? |
| 16:09 |
Hijiri |
I feel like it would be nice to have a way for players to activate abilities without using items |
| 16:10 |
Hijiri |
(or using control tables/bitmaps which will get saturated very quickly) |
| 16:12 |
Hijiri |
I don't know if that is part of what you meant, but it would be useful if the player is going to be casting spells |
| 16:12 |
Zeno` |
I take back my words about paramat. The only issue I have with him is that he seems to control both the engine AND MTG atm |
| 16:13 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, spells and NPC doesn't need CSM |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
and I don't think that's right |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
*shrug* |
| 16:13 |
Hijiri |
nerzhul: did you mean some kind of engine change then? |
| 16:13 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, maybe we will have a on_cast_spell and on_spell_hit callbacks in CSM, but it's not the first goal, it will be after having a nice NPC API |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
I know he cares |
| 16:13 |
Zeno` |
But sometimes his views are kind of crazy |
| 16:13 |
nerzhul |
NPC will require a very huge protocol enhancement to add new features to make NPC entities work withotu lag |
| 16:14 |
Hijiri |
alright |
| 16:14 |
nerzhul |
instead of telling client (like now) move_direction,acceleration,blah |
| 16:14 |
nerzhul |
a goal is to use waypoints: move_to (x,y,z,speed) |
| 16:14 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3507#issuecomment-300182387 redundant check of a boolean value. It will be true afterwards anyways. |
| 16:14 |
Hijiri |
I just think that maybe if there are engine changes specifically for spell stuff, then maybe it would be stuff that can be generalized beyond spells |
| 16:14 |
Krock |
^ nerzhul |
| 16:14 |
nerzhul |
and client will calculate path for entities (server too for sending regular new updates) |
| 16:15 |
Hijiri |
nerzhul: what if NPCs move in a non-waypointy way sometimes? |
| 16:15 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, yeah, i tell spell, because i'm very World of Warcraft API aware, i maintained a World of warcraft private server for three years 3 years ago |
| 16:16 |
nerzhul |
Hijiri, i can't answer all your questions, but we will try to have smooth server side API reducing client entity lag and increasing accuracy |
| 16:16 |
nerzhul |
atm it's too early, many PR and bugs should be solved for release |
| 16:16 |
Hijiri |
alright, thanks |
| 16:16 |
Hijiri |
probably it will be up on Github for discussion later on anyway, I'll be able to comment there |
| 16:17 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, yeah, he's very strange, on the knockback PR he said: NO never useless... etc, and after told, why not in fact |
| 16:17 |
Hijiri |
actually not "probably" since you explicitly said you would make a project for it |
| 16:17 |
nerzhul |
yeah, just wait for this release, we have some nice PR to merge (before 21st may) |
| 16:17 |
nerzhul |
12 days before feature freeze guys |
| 16:17 |
Hijiri |
hope mine gets in |
| 16:17 |
nerzhul |
nice PR should be discussed this saturday and merged/enhanced |
| 16:18 |
Hijiri |
I stopped bothering to mergebeg every day since it's in the milestone anyway |
| 16:18 |
nerzhul |
and recent PR, stop with old PR for 2 weeks please (ShadowNinja) |
| 16:18 |
nerzhul |
Krock, i don't think a boolean write is expensive, yes |
| 16:18 |
nerzhul |
we are not at this optimization point :p |
| 16:19 |
nerzhul |
(but i don't think it's useful to add it to patchset) |
| 16:19 |
nerzhul |
i should go, Krock can you merge #5736 in some minutes ? |
| 16:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5736 -- Fix android main menu. by red-001 |
| 16:19 |
Krock |
nerzhul, yes sure, too trivial. Just seen it and replaced :3 |
| 16:19 |
Krock |
sure. |
| 16:19 |
nerzhul |
ty |
| 16:20 |
Krock |
merging in 10 minutes |
| 16:20 |
nerzhul |
i hope sfan5 will finish the private metas before feature freeze, it's very important to have this to reduce CSM unneeded lookups in metas for server owners :) |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
the suggestion is not adressed right |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
i should probably respond to it |
| 16:22 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, #5736 re-adds lines that got accidently removed in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/43d1f375d18a2fbc547a9b4f23d1354d645856ca#diff-22c832bbf307849c913965da6a862b49L192 |
| 16:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5736 -- Fix android main menu. by red-001 |
| 16:22 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i see :) |
| 16:22 |
nerzhul |
i missed them |
| 16:23 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, i think the remaining point is static_cast to dynamic_cast, else other parts are okay to me |
| 16:23 |
nerzhul |
see you later |
| 16:23 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 16:33 |
Fixer |
currently playing on mp server, hanging out on my base, memory usage slowly goes up it seems, memory leeks? will look more |
| 16:36 |
Fixer |
is there difference on how debug/release builds receive network packets? |
| 16:39 |
Krock |
Fixer, only 1 match for NDEBUG in network/, which changes the logging but not the packet handling |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
checked my suspicion, false alarm |
| 17:03 |
Krock |
*phew!* |
| 17:07 |
Fixer |
this strange fps drop bug sucks so much, i have no idea how to even catch it on debug build, since fps degenerates to very low points |
| 17:15 |
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| 17:17 |
nerzhul |
ty Kray |
| 17:17 |
nerzhul |
Krock, |
| 17:17 |
Krock |
hehe :P |
| 17:18 |
nerzhul |
red-001, can you finish most of your PR before sunday ? feature freeze is at the end of next week |
| 17:18 |
nerzhul |
i want #5719 to be merged :) |
| 17:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001 |
| 17:21 |
red-001 |
working on it |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:34 |
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| 17:49 |
red-001 |
updated #5719 |
| 17:49 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001 |
| 17:50 |
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| 17:51 |
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| 17:51 |
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| 17:54 |
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| 18:01 |
nerzhul |
Zeno`, Krock can you review #5719 another time ? or other coredevs ? it's very nice improvement |
| 18:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001 |
| 18:02 |
nerzhul |
red-001, for std::string damage = g_settings->getBool("enable_damage") ? on : off; can you verify is a const ref can be used for the std::string please ? if yes, please replace |
| 18:06 |
red-001 |
note: I used a size of 500 for the char array which slightly more then twice the size of the english controls text |
| 18:06 |
nerzhul |
yeah ignor that :) |
| 18:06 |
red-001 |
I think that should probaly be enough for most lanuages |
| 18:06 |
Krock |
these could be placed into the stream writing |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
the compiler then surely wouldn't be unhappy with it |
| 18:07 |
red-001 |
krock that might make translating harder |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
no: os << strgettext("- Damage: ") << g_settings->getBool("enable_damage") ? on : off << "\n" |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
but that makes it hard to read |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
try using const refs |
| 18:12 |
Fixer |
idling on multiplayer server in minimise watching a big area: https://i.imgur.com/wUXu2tc.png (mem usage incraesed +120 mb in 50 minutes) |
| 18:12 |
red-001 |
done |
| 18:22 |
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| 18:30 |
nerzhul |
approved thanks ! |
| 18:32 |
nerzhul |
nice job on the project on this release red-001 , you have many time as it seems :) |
| 18:33 |
nerzhul |
i will merge it in two hours is no objection (taking time for other core devs to re-look at this) |
| 18:38 |
rubenwardy |
made a review |
| 18:38 |
rubenwardy |
nice improvement though |
| 18:48 |
nerzhul |
:) red-001 it's your time heh |
| 18:49 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, good work recently |
| 18:56 |
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| 19:12 |
Fixer |
i have impression that minetest is memory leaking |
| 19:13 |
Fixer |
just afking and watching the area on MP server away from most people: 20:40 - 930mb, 22:10 - over 1.1 Gb |
| 19:18 |
Fixer |
just afking and watching the area on MP server away from most people: 20:40 - 930mb, 22:17 - over 1.2 Gb |
| 19:18 |
Fixer |
*corrected |
| 19:20 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, it depend on mapblocks loaded/modified, valgrind doesn't report memleaks recently |
| 19:20 |
nerzhul |
(it's very hard to track client memleaks too) |
| 19:21 |
Fixer |
not much activity in my place, i just afk, and sometimes few 1-2 people go by and do a little play |
| 19:55 |
Fixer |
22:32 - over 1.3 gb |
| 19:55 |
Fixer |
hmmm |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
having another suspicion, lets bump it up to 2.4 gb right now and measure fps |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:09 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/eJbAZVj.png lets see if it unloads some |
| 20:19 |
Fixer |
back to afkying in my place and position, observing some mem unload, but slight: https://i.imgur.com/4YisVZv.png |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:37 |
Fixer |
more unload, but weak, still lots of mem used, keeps leaking: https://i.imgur.com/JRK9ZrD.png |
| 20:39 |
Fixer |
corrected pic: https://i.imgur.com/d9LIGi0.png (vrange 240 was not rendered properly) |
| 20:41 |
sfan5 |
nerzhul: nodemeta pr updated |
| 20:48 |
nerzhul |
nice looking |
| 20:49 |
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| 20:50 |
nerzhul |
merging #5738 in ~10 mins |
| 20:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5738 -- minetest.deserialize: Throw error when argument not string by SmallJoker |
| 20:52 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, just a question, is there any metadata in buildit which can be private? |
| 20:52 |
nerzhul |
or minimal ? |
| 20:54 |
nerzhul |
added my approval, but minimal & mt_game should be updated after that heh, nice job |
| 21:20 |
red-001 |
updated 5719 to escape strings that could break the formspec |
| 21:22 |
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| 21:42 |
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| 21:47 |
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chatter29 joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:47 |
chatter29 |
hey guys |
| 21:47 |
chatter29 |
allah is doinf |
| 21:47 |
chatter29 |
allah is doing |
| 21:47 |
chatter29 |
sun is not doing allah is doing |
| 21:47 |
chatter29 |
to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger |
| 21:47 |
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| 21:48 |
* red-001 |
asks for someone to ban chatte29 |
| 21:48 |
nore |
so they are really typing it each time, lol |
| 21:49 |
red-001 |
I wonder why they always use the same nick |
| 21:49 |
nore |
no idea |
| 21:50 |
nore |
there |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:54 |
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| 21:55 |
ShadowNinja |
nore: /mode -bq+q chatter29!*@* *!*@gateway/web/freenode* *!*@gateway/web/* |
| 21:55 |
nore |
ShadowNinja: hmm, you are not op there? strange |
| 21:55 |
ShadowNinja |
(quiet all webchat, not just freenode webchat) |
| 21:56 |
nore |
oh ok |
| 21:56 |
ShadowNinja |
Yeah, a bunch of people got oped a while ago, but I wasn't around. |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
most of them got de-oped by now |
| 21:57 |
nore |
I guess we could op you if celeron55 is fine with it ^ |
| 21:59 |
nore |
hmmm chatter29 just joined another channel as chatter30 |
| 21:59 |
nore |
I guess that's why we don't ban them |
| 21:59 |
red-001 |
oh thats because I took his nick |
| 21:59 |
nore |
haha |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
it's registered so he could ghost me |
| 22:00 |
nore |
something like a year ago they were called just chatter |
| 22:00 |
nore |
I guess using the nick has been done more than once |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
ShadowNinja: muting the entirety of webchat is rude, IMO |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
oh, this is -dev, I guess it's ok |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
I thought this was the main channel |
| 22:03 |
nore |
Calinou: yeah, it's -dev and freenode webchat was already muted |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:36 |
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| 22:37 |
paramat |
"maybe the compromise here is to let all core devs do patches etc, and approve implementation, but only mtg devs do concept/game direction" that happens already, anyone can submit PRs |
| 22:37 |
paramat |
(still reading logs) |
| 22:41 |
paramat |
"rubenwardy > mtg dev is practically ran by paramat atm, so that would exclude him" oops, i know what you meant here, but this will provoke certain people :] |
| 22:41 |
paramat |
i'm active but have no more power than any other mtg dev |
| 22:43 |
paramat |
oh dear my fan club has been active |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
"I often read paramat openly refusing any real artist to have an authority on the assets that goes in MTG or not" just stating my opinion |
| 22:44 |
kilbith |
yep, and your fan club really want to meet you to get things straight with you.... |
| 22:44 |
kilbith |
we are not living far from each other, you know ;) |
| 22:47 |
paramat |
"kilbith > there's no need for the project to be led by an incompetent" ! i'm obviously not leading anything |
| 22:47 |
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| 22:48 |
paramat |
"Zeno` > And, I'm going to say it... paramat is not suitable for that role" luckily i don't have that role (master coder) |
| 22:48 |
kilbith |
think a moment why several people perceive that you're leading both projects, there's certainly a kernel of truth there |
| 22:51 |
paramat |
"it's the reason I have not contributed at all in the last 3 months" that's a delusional personal 'problem with me' |
| 22:51 |
kilbith |
it's not personal, it's a common problem with you |
| 22:53 |
paramat |
"A recent example. Paramat saying that the ternary conditional operator needs parenthesis around the condition" just a personal opinion for consistency, a suggestion, every dev has opinions and makes suggestions |
| 22:57 |
paramat |
"Zeno` > I take back my words about paramat. The only issue I have with him is that he seems to control both the engine AND MTG atm" that's delusional madness |
| 22:58 |
paramat |
also implies all other devs are spineless and let me walk all over them |
| 23:00 |
paramat |
"kilbith > you're just one of the numerous people disgusted of contributing because of him" the problem here is in your heads, nowhere else |
| 23:07 |
paramat |
"kilbith > yep, and your fan club really want to meet you to get things straight with you... we are not living far from each other, you know ;)" almost a personal physical threat |
| 23:08 |
paramat |
"kilbith > think a moment why several people perceive that you're leading both projects, there's certainly a kernel of truth there" i'm active and you're delusional |
| 23:10 |
paramat |
i've actually had long periods of obsessive personal attacks from kilbith before, it's nothing new |
| 23:11 |
paramat |
BTW sun is doing :] |
| 23:17 |
paramat |
celeron55 i guess personal threats are against IRC rules? |
| 23:17 |
paramat |
^^^ |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
half joking is not very comforting |
| 23:26 |
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| 23:26 |
Hijiri |
Any comment on #5612 |
| 23:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5612 -- Allow overriding tool capabilities through itemstack metadata by raymoo |
| 23:27 |
Hijiri |
I've got some upvotes and party poppers but no approvals or criticisms of the design |
| 23:27 |
Hijiri |
except the code style review by nore |
| 23:27 |
Hijiri |
nerzhul I mean |
| 23:27 |
Hijiri |
sorry for the highlight |
| 23:28 |
Calinou |
there, have one more upvote and party popper |
| 23:28 |
Calinou |
you deserved it |
| 23:29 |
Hijiri |
:P thanks |
| 23:32 |
paramat |
twice before i've had periods of irrational personal attacks from zeno too, however, the rest of the time he is a pleasure to work with |
| 23:34 |
paramat |
we do need more subgames, but large subgame teams are a problem as explained before, so it would be good for devs to get into groups to work on multiple subgames |
| 23:34 |
paramat |
zeno perhaps start a group and work on a subgame? |
| 23:38 |
paramat |
i sort of agree with you that it's weird how some core devs do not have a say in MTG, but having all core devs as MTG devs would probably be worse. multiple subgames created by groups or individuals is best, and takes the focus and pressure off MTG |
| 23:40 |
paramat |
this has been asked for, for years, and there is no obstacle, people just have to get working |
| 23:40 |
paramat |
and some are already |
| 23:53 |
Calinou |
I don't think we need more subgames, quality over quantity is prime here |
| 23:53 |
Calinou |
I mean, MTG is close to being a full game… all it needs is mods, and more server admin tools perhaps |
| 23:53 |
Calinou |
(but the latter is mostly relevant for multiplayer) |
| 23:53 |
Calinou |
mobs* |
| 23:53 |
Fixer |
you can merge good mods into game with mod author continuing working on it |
| 23:55 |
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