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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-02-27

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Time Nick Message
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02:59 paramat updated game#1541
02:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1541 -- Textures: Darker, richer dirt texture by paramat
03:02 VanessaE eck
03:02 VanessaE no way
03:02 VanessaE that dirt is way too dark
03:02 VanessaE it looks almost wet
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04:28 paramat yeah dirt is one of those difficult textures, like grass. i'm wasting time maintaining a branch and PR when more experimentation is needed, i'll open an issue instead
04:30 paramat sofar out of interest what's your opinion of game#1541 ? i'm about to close it
04:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1541 -- Textures: Darker, richer dirt texture by paramat
04:33 paramat btw i updated game#1587
04:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1587 -- Biomes: New surface node for rainforest by paramat
05:01 paramat what do people think about adding krock as an mtgame dev? since he's active, has contributed quite a lot and has been around a long time
05:01 paramat mtgame is understaffed
05:07 sofar paramat: I kind of like it
05:08 sofar it's fairly drastical though, but "weh weh weh" people hate change
05:09 sofar tbh I think we should give up on doing textures one by one and just have a small team redo every single texture at once
05:09 sofar 2-3 people tops
05:09 sofar and no external blocking votes
05:17 paramat i think that would be good for a texture pack, but not for default textures, as contributors will want to submit their own textures for nodes, and if the texture is good and consistent i would disagree with insisting it is redone by someone else
05:19 paramat people generally like the default textures we have, and they are good, there would be a lot of resistence to trashing the lot
05:20 sofar no, you'd just ask the team to add new textures
05:20 sofar and yeah, nothing bad about many textures
05:21 sofar but, if you redo the style consistently, really, you have to throw it all out
05:21 sofar no exception
05:22 paramat my opinion of default textures made by various authors is that it is inevitably less consistent, but needed. texture packs can be (and are already) for small-team / single-artist consistent textures
05:22 sofar seriously if you'd start to use mcresconvert and use some even half-assed texture pack for MC converted to MT, you just don't want to go back
05:22 sofar it's so more pleasing and consistent
05:23 sofar if you want to keep things ugly for old times sake, that's just a really bad proposition
05:23 sofar I could care less about my code getting replaced with something better
05:24 paramat i don't think default textures are that bad, i look at MT texture packs and usually i end up deciding that the default pack is the best we have
05:24 sofar heck a large portion of textures is shamefully ripped from an actual artist
05:24 sofar did you try pixelperfection?
05:24 sofar isabella II?
05:24 sofar hell even the default MC textures look like an eye opener in MT
05:25 paramat our textures are not ugly
05:25 sofar oh, yes they are
05:25 sofar they're absolutely mediocre
05:25 sofar they're inconsistent
05:25 sofar they're not color coordinated
05:25 sofar the contrast level is all over the place
05:25 sofar and so is the saturation level
05:27 sofar show it to an art minor student and they run away crying
05:28 sofar anyway
05:28 paramat hmm, it could be a new texture pack, once complete we could try it and decide to use it as default if it's generally better. then perhaps have the old textures as a shipped alternative pack
05:29 paramat i think our textures are better than MCs even if less consistent
05:29 sofar if only I could get some art students to do a project for school
05:30 paramat well, it's a good idea, we need a variety of texture packs, this could be an official pack
05:31 paramat i'm sure some would maintain the classic textures as an alternative official pack
05:32 sofar find . -name '*.png' -exec cp {} ~/.minetest/textures/minetest-classic/ \;
05:32 sofar there, maintained
05:36 sofar is someone maintaining gambits textures?
05:36 sofar hmm kilbith was for a while
05:43 paramat lots of good textures there
05:44 sofar the whole pack is good
05:44 sofar I admit a few are odd ones out
05:44 sofar but as a whole it's coherent, very
05:44 paramat there are a few i can't stand
05:48 sofar this is why I'm working on something else atm
05:49 sofar can't make any radical progress without throwing out a dozen babies with bathwater
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05:58 paramat we do need alternative subgames, and when made by 1 or a few people these can develop many times faster than mtgame does
05:58 paramat free from the PR/review process
05:59 paramat fewer authors means more artistic vision
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06:11 paramat i somewhat feel that should be the subgame focus, mtgame work is difficult, being an artistic project with too many authors
06:12 sofar the project I'm working on now sits at 285 commits and 7500 lines of lua code of which barely 1000 were borrowed I think
06:13 sofar not to mention completely new sound and textures
06:14 paramat excellent work
06:14 paramat a variety of subgames has been requested for a long time
06:14 paramat ideally i should make one too
06:15 sofar this is technically not even a subgame project, lol
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06:49 paramat #5316
06:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5316 -- Biomes: Add heat and humidity gradient parameters by paramat
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07:57 celeron55 i agree that textures should be done by a team that actually knows how to do consistent artwork; is there any chance of that actually happening though, outside of just picking an independent texture pack and using it?
08:00 celeron55 i don't really care though
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08:37 kilbith I'm unable to cross-compile MT with GCC-MinGW (arch) : https://hastebin.com/abekewixiq.txt
08:37 kilbith using the buildbot script
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09:02 kilbith I really don't understand, yet I have set `export CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc` (same for g++)
09:03 kilbith sfan5: any idea ?
09:13 sofar I'm not seeing my minetest ever touch a remote media server O_o
09:17 VanessaE curl support?
09:18 sofar hmm
09:18 sofar oh look there's 2 http download classes
09:19 sofar I put a debug print in the http download setup
09:19 sofar and it only ever downloads the master server list
09:19 sofar no media at all, ever
09:19 VanessaE weird.
09:19 VanessaE clear the cache and try it on my server ?
09:20 VanessaE I'm 100% certain it works there :)
09:20 sofar cleared cache, nothing
09:21 VanessaE huh.
09:21 sofar wait, no new cache made?
09:21 VanessaE ?
09:22 VanessaE I know it sounds obvious, but you're looking in the right place for it I assume?
09:22 sofar I wiped ~/.minetest/cache
09:22 VanessaE it's not there anymore.
09:22 sofar it doesn't get recreated
09:22 VanessaE it's in ~/.cache/minetest/
09:23 sofar *wipes*
09:23 sofar 500mb lmao
09:23 VanessaE you've been getting around :
09:23 VanessaE :)
09:23 sofar AHHH there we go
09:23 VanessaE I don't remember when that dir was moved but at least that worked :)
09:24 sofar put 60mb of music and wanted to make sure it loads reasonably ok
09:24 sofar (not)
09:24 VanessaE hah!
09:24 VanessaE 10 minute download easy
09:24 sofar 2-3 minutes I estimate
09:24 VanessaE (it takes about 5mins for Dreambuilder's media, which is I think around 30 MB)
09:25 sofar done
09:25 VanessaE sweet
09:25 sofar about 2
09:25 VanessaE guess that works better now :)
09:25 sofar not bad for 60mb of fantastic music
09:25 VanessaE (shows you how long it's been since I last cleared my cache)
09:25 sofar this subgame will rock with this music
09:25 sofar anyway, I so, totally, need to get to bed now
09:25 sofar :)
09:25 * sofar vanishes
09:26 * VanessaE throws flour on sofar
09:26 VanessaE there, now you're visible again.
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10:53 nerzhul read<int>(L, -2) ? :)
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11:27 glut32 Hi, I would like to compile minetest on MacOSX. I installed Xcode and CMake. And I would like to know wich compiler do you use for the MacOSX compilation with CMake? is it "Xcode" or "Unix Makefile"?
11:28 sfan5 if you want to compile it using GNU "make" from the command like choose makefile
11:28 sfan5 if you'd like xcode then choose that
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12:22 nerzhul merging #5132
12:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5132 -- Bug in nodeboxes and collision check. And ghost slabs again, in version 0.4.15
12:22 nerzhul err #5312
12:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5312 -- Fixed spelling mistakes by Bond-009
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13:31 glut32 thank you sfan5 !
13:33 glut32 I want to compile minetest on mac os x. I used "brew install ..." and I launch cmake (compiler = Xcode). And I have this error : "Could not find X11" when I click on configure on CMake. Does someone has a solution to fix this it?
13:38 sfan5 it shouldn't be looking for x11 on mac
13:44 glut32 could you send me your "CMakeCache.txt" file ?
13:45 glut32 I think that a lot path will be the same cuz we use "brew install"?
13:45 glut32 this is my email adress : mr.glut32@gmail.com
13:45 sfan5 i don't have a mac
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14:09 glut32 ok. no problem
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14:25 glut32 I read the CMakeLists.txt file. You can read this :
14:25 glut32 if(WIN32)
14:25 glut32 ...
14:25 glut32 else()
14:26 glut32 # Unix probably
14:26 glut32 if(BUILD_CLIENT)
14:26 glut32 find_package(X11 REQUIRED)
14:26 glut32 ...
14:27 glut32 endif()
14:27 glut32 It's strange
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14:42 celeron55 none of the core developers have macs, you're pretty much on your own
14:42 celeron55 remember to make a PR if something needs to be fixed
14:46 sfan5 this searching for all the deps sucks anyway
14:46 sfan5 it is only needed for static linking
14:46 sfan5 the whole section from if(BUILD_CLIENT) to endif(BUILD_CLIENT) can just be omitted
14:47 sfan5 if responsibility of specifying deps in case of static linking is moved to whoever is compiling mt
14:48 sfan5 glut32: you can comment out the find_package for X11, Xxf86vm, jpeg, bzip2 & png
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15:18 glut32 thank you again sfan! the project compiles on xcode but doesnt work. porting::share_path is not valid on mac os x. I'm investigating this now
15:18 sofar glut32: congratulations, you are now the mac port maintainer
15:20 glut32 ha ha
15:21 glut32 * porting::path_share
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15:22 octacian Seeing as I'm implementing both a workbench and a nametag to rename items, I'm wondering if I should keep the ability to name nametags with their own formspecs show on_use. What do you guys thing?
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15:38 sofar octacian: what's the use of the nametag item if the workbench does all the complex work?
15:38 octacian Yeah, that's what I decided.
15:39 octacian Right now I'm just fighting with getting the workbench to show the name of the item when I move it from the output slot back to the input slot.
15:39 sofar you'd still want a consumable though
15:39 octacian I'm not sure how I can get the description of an item with on_metadata_inventory_move
15:40 octacian Apparently local stack = inv:get_stack(from_list, from_index) doesn't work
15:40 octacian But, up in allow_metadata_inventory_move, inv:get_stack(from_list, from_index) does work
15:40 octacian ..which is a bit confusing.
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15:45 octacian All I have left though, is to fix that issue and clean up some code.
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15:52 octacian sofar: the nametag is the consumable. One is used with each renaming.
15:52 halt_ Hey anyone know what a PC would need to run a minetest server?
15:53 octacian halt_: it'd be better to ask in #minetest
15:53 halt_ K
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16:11 nerzhul halt_: i suggest to have a bi xeon x6 + 64GB ram
16:11 nerzhul MT have memleak and we don't want to fix it, also please use systemd to respawn your service after a OOM kill :p
16:11 nerzhul *joke*
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20:11 nerzhul we will need to switch from sha1 to sha256 guys
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20:14 est31 why
20:14 est31 we dont use it for any cryptographic purpose
20:15 est31 and in SRP its meaningless which hash is used
20:15 est31 we could use MD5 too
20:15 sfan5 huh srp uses a hash?
20:15 est31 yes
20:15 est31 I mean, weak collision resistance is not what you want from a password hash
20:15 est31 as long as preimage attacks are not feasible, its perfectly usable to use sha1
20:16 est31 (of course, you can say you should use scrypt/bcrypt instead but this will just mean a constant factor)
20:17 est31 we also use sha1 for media files
20:17 est31 I dont see any problems in its use either
20:17 est31 again, we could have used md5 as well and nothing would have went wrong
20:18 nerzhul est31, collision between client files
20:18 nerzhul we use a sha1 to know the unique file
20:18 est31 yes, and?
20:19 nerzhul if two files have the same sha1 your client will just be crazy
20:19 est31 nerzhul: do you know the difference between collision attacks, and second preimage attacks
20:19 sfan5 google's thingy allows everyone to create two colliding pdf files
20:19 sfan5 but i don't see how that is a problem
20:19 sfan5 we don't deal with pdfs
20:19 est31 yeah
20:20 nerzhul it could be extended to other format like images no ?
20:20 est31 yes
20:20 nerzhul and minetest have images, no ?
20:20 est31 yes, so you will see a wrong image, is that any bad?
20:20 sfan5 it's a theoretical attack until someone actually does it
20:20 sfan5 which is estimated to cost like $600k
20:20 nerzhul est31, yes it's bad as it's the wrong image and also could be a rogue image
20:21 est31 nerzhul: but you'd have to download that image first
20:21 est31 I mean minetest already now bases on the concept that the network between client and server is to be trusted
20:21 est31 unless we do encryption ofc
20:22 nerzhul it's wrong to trust client <=> server without encryption
20:22 sfan5 obviously it is
20:23 est31 nerzhul:  if the server wants you to send a malicious image, it can send you one already now
20:23 nerzhul base on that concept is wrong and you can send colliding rogue files to clients
20:23 est31 there is nothing preventing it from that
20:23 nerzhul because we use UDP
20:23 nerzhul :)
20:23 est31 server can send all kinds of shit
20:23 sfan5 you don't need a sha1 collision for that
20:23 est31 ^
20:23 nerzhul sfan5, ofc yes, but why not protect against that ? :)
20:23 sfan5 this is a game not a banking app
20:24 nerzhul sfan5, i think you didn't see banking app code
20:24 sfan5 :D
20:24 est31 :P
20:24 nerzhul the only reason why bank are secure is nobody understand all the infrastructure and code :p
20:25 nerzhul i change the topic but #5088 needs to be merged at a point
20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
20:25 nerzhul i will not lost many time to rebase just for rebase as the API is now stable and secure, only requires a CSM store out of this PR and more callbacks
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