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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-10-05

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Time Nick Message
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08:34 nrzkt hi -dev ! trivial but a long #4574 ready for review
08:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4574 -- Replace various std::map with UNORDERED_MAP + various cleanups by nerzhul
08:47 sfan5 nrzkt: lgtm
08:53 nrzkt sfan5: merging then :)
08:56 nrzkt done
09:18 Hijiri can someone check #4128
09:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4128 -- Prevent attached models from disappearing during parent reload by Foghrye4
09:22 nrzkt Hijiri: i'm doing it
09:22 Hijiri thanks
09:24 nrzkt done,
09:24 nrzkt some spaces, some code lines to change
09:25 nrzkt and i ask you to change one MT container type because you are manipulating it here to generic type permitting to switch to C++11 optimized set for this use case
09:27 Hijiri It's not my PR
09:27 nrzkt oh i see :)
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13:35 red-001 intersting you can search the posts of users who no longer have an account
13:36 Krock seems like you had some strange number overflow in your name, which started with 1 instead of 0
13:44 _Megaf Krock: not binary based
13:44 Krock yes, thus, strange.
13:44 _Megaf Krock: is base 10, he goes to 999 and resets to 1
13:44 _Megaf I know, should start in 0
13:44 _Megaf [08:27:11] --> red-999 (red-999@109.77.13.221) has joined #minetest-dev
13:45 red-255 so much for my cloak
13:46 red-255 :)
13:49 * _Megaf stops talking before someone says it's not minetest development related
13:54 * red-255 says it's not minetest development related
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14:16 nrzkt guys, release was in apr/may. it's time to release no ? is there any blocker to release MT 0.4.15 ?
14:16 nrzkt many fixes has been added and some little feature
14:17 Fixer i see reason for 0.4.14.1 not for 0.4.15 :(
14:31 nrzkt we didn't do sub patch
14:31 nrzkt major.minor.patch
14:31 nrzkt 6 months of commit it's a patch :)
14:31 nrzkt we didn't need to be impressive if it's only user experience improvements
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16:10 paramat Fixer we're very aware of bugs and do care, the issue is simply lack of dev time. please stop being so negative, it's actually harmful to the project. how about improving your coding and starting to contribute since you care so much and have so much time to report bugs and complain? :]
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16:14 paramat your nick is funny
16:14 * paramat changes your nick to Whiner
16:32 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZmyAWul9Y
16:35 paramat i'll merge games 1306 1307 soon
16:37 paramat sofar sfan5 nore rubenwardy i need game#1303 for new biomes, please can i merge that too?
16:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1303 -- Default: Add grey sand by paramat
16:37 sfan5 grey sand is a little weird as a description
16:37 Zeno` #1306
16:37 sfan5 how about "dark sand" or "cold sand"?
16:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1306 -- Fix line run on, making lua-api.txt more readable. by hoodedice
16:37 Zeno` +1
16:38 Zeno` #1307
16:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1307 -- Add minetest.register_on_punchplayer by Bremaweb
16:38 sofar can I get a sec to see if I can come up with a better name for grey/gray sand?
16:38 nore paramat: same comment as sfan5: "Grey sand" looks weird, but once this is changed, +1
16:38 Zeno` err 1307 is already merged
16:39 Zeno` oh games
16:39 Zeno` oops :)
16:40 * Zeno` listens to Evie song again
16:40 nore (also: since we are starting to have quite diverse versions of basically the same thing (for sand, trees, ...), it would be nice to make them somehow a bit different)
16:40 paramat sure we can improve the name
16:40 nore (would be harder for sand than for wood though)
16:41 paramat texture seems fine to me, it's a lovely design
16:42 sofar fluvial sand, alluvial sand, volcanic sand... trying to find better names...
16:42 paramat i chose 'grey sand' to make it more flexible in use, not restricted to cold desert, but sure i don't mind a new name
16:43 Zeno` volcanic sand is normally black. Although it might be grey if there is coral reef involved as well. The merging of the two is... hmm... variable
16:43 sofar eolian sand would do well, but it's a difficult word
16:43 sofar Zeno`: volcanic sands often turn gray after a while when exposed to sunlight
16:43 Zeno` sofar is the geologist... we should listen to him!
16:44 sofar but sure, many people think volcanic sands are dark, and they mostly are
16:44 sofar I'
16:44 Zeno` sofar, I have a black pearl (which is really grey)
16:44 sofar I'm not actually looking for a name that declares the origin of the sand
16:44 sofar just posing ideas
16:44 Zeno` from an area which has volcanic sands
16:44 sofar lol
16:45 Zeno` apparently it's probably worth some $$
16:45 Zeno` but I aint selling it
16:46 Zeno` I dunno if alluvial sand would be correct... wouldn't that depend of the alluvium?
16:46 paramat btw this biome will extend from 'cold desert' into (dry) tundra climate
16:47 Zeno` auxiliary sand
16:47 Zeno` :D
16:47 sofar Zeno`: `alluvial` means `in a river dominated geomorphology`
16:48 sofar e.g. non-marine
16:48 Zeno` sofar, yeah, but wouldn't the sand colour then depend on what is being eroded into the river/stream?
16:48 sofar eolian can mean near seas as well (dunes) or desert
16:49 sofar alluvial sands are usually more rich in detritus and clay, so yes, browner
16:49 Zeno` hmm ok
16:49 sofar that's why aeolian fits better
16:49 Zeno` what about in sandstone areas? :D
16:50 Zeno` aeolian is a bit hard to type
16:50 sofar we could call it `dune sand` to simplify
16:50 Zeno` yeah that'd work
16:51 Zeno` i guess :/
16:51 Zeno` what about sand dunes? lol
16:51 Zeno` (i mean beach ones)
16:51 sofar at least it avoids the `gray` vs `grey` sand problem
16:51 Zeno` but this is a bit silly hehehe
16:51 Zeno` desert sand?
16:52 sofar how about
16:52 sofar `silver sand`
16:52 sofar avoid the whole genealogy debate
16:52 paramat silver was my first idea
16:52 sofar isn't weird like grey, perhaps?
16:52 Zeno` so, "grey" is the issue?
16:52 Zeno` just call it "dark sand"
16:53 sofar in dutch it's even a word I think
16:53 paramat the biome is inspired by high cold deserts in pakistan
16:53 sofar silversand (loosely translated)
16:53 sofar I'd be quite content with it being called `silver sand`
16:53 sofar it fits the biome, it's a bit more descriptive and catching
16:53 paramat it's a prettier word
16:54 Zeno` sounds nice
16:54 sofar do it
16:55 paramat ^ nore sfan5 ?
16:55 sfan5 yup
16:55 sfan5 though it should be "silversand" not "silver sand"
16:55 paramat https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_vmUKfXEAA1c2_.jpg
16:56 paramat nope silver_sand, node names now use seperated word
16:56 paramat http://www.pakistantoursguide.pk/wp​-content/uploads/2015/11/Cold-deser​t-at-dusk.%E2%80%94-S.M.Bukhari.jpg
16:56 sfan5 i meant the description
16:58 paramat ah i would think Silver Sand is correct english
16:58 sofar english usually splits out words
16:58 sfan5 it is
16:58 sofar german/dutch concatenate
16:58 sofar I'd split it out myself
16:58 paramat yeah, ok thanks everyone
16:59 T4im "Police helps dog bite victim."
16:59 sfan5 i'm aware that "silversand" is not correct english, i'd just name it that way because it's not really quite literally supposed to be "just" silver colored sand
16:59 redyellow sand maked from sliver dust?
17:00 redyellow made*
17:00 paramat i see 'silversand' is often used as a fancy name
17:00 Krock as a name for an infrumental album from 1985 for example
17:00 Krock *instrumental
17:00 paramat heh
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17:13 sfan5 serverlist stats are in << https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/se​rverlist_stats_2016-10-05.txt
17:13 sfan5 could be interesting for coredevs
17:15 paramat it is
17:15 twoelk modernhousebuild?
17:15 sfan5 android clones have quite silly names
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17:16 twoelk I didn't know you could actually identify them
17:18 T4im passive os fingerprinting, i assume :)
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17:19 paramat mobile is 93%!
17:19 twoelk 16 older than winXP? wonder what they ran on
17:20 T4im oh, that's simple user agent parsing?
17:20 sfan5 yes it is
17:21 T4im any chance of minetest unrelated bots being part of that?
17:21 T4im you know, exploit scaners
17:22 T4im nvm, i should've read the rest first x)
17:23 twoelk so most users by far use some sort of multicraft :-(
17:23 T4im it's impressive how many old clients are still in play
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17:26 Krock but wow.. two million ingame server list fetches
17:27 Krock and that in less than a month
17:27 twoelk hm, this is for ten days right? so we have a quarter million clients per day? If some of those are rejoins or such this still gives minetest some  hundreds of thousands unique users per day
17:27 Krock yeah, imperssive
17:28 T4im doesn't the same client update the lists, too after a while? or at least when switching tabs?
17:28 Krock no, only when removing or adding favourites
17:28 twoelk creating clicks by server hopping?
17:28 T4im well switching tabs updates server status here though, Krock
17:29 Krock ah right, yes
17:30 Krock right now I noticed that I submit wrong data by using my browser to fetch the list. x64 linux gets some clicks more by that xD
17:31 sfan5 T4im: F5 and take a look at the effective version distribution
17:31 sfan5 then you'll be much happier
17:32 T4im ah :D
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17:34 T4im why are some absolute numbers smaller in the effective distribution now though?
17:34 T4im shouldn't all of them be larger if you distribute the third-party applications onto them?
17:35 T4im eh nvm
17:35 T4im theyare
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17:37 twoelk I wonder wether the desktop/mobile ratio is tipped towards mobile devices because they reconnect much more often due to bad internet and such
17:37 Krock could be
17:38 twoelk the last time I tried to play from a phone I was in an overland bus with a bad wlan connection
17:39 sfan5 i could count unique ip addresses in a time frame of 30 minutes
17:39 sfan5 but then i'd need to do all the stats again
17:39 sfan5 nahhh
17:42 twoelk I did notice on some servers that sometimes players are disconnected and reconnect in groups, like a netsplit on irc
17:43 Fixer sfan5: do it, is not it is interesting to confirm 7% desktop share?
17:43 sfan5 no i'm going to have some ice cream now
17:43 twoelk yummy
17:44 * T4im wonders if mobile clients aren't essentially just crowd sourced bots
17:44 Fixer i go eat too
17:44 twoelk well looking at their behaviour does let one wonder
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18:58 nrzkt will push a little compilation fix since recent commit that travis didn't point
18:59 nrzkt pushed
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19:52 redyellow will minimal be included in the next release?
19:55 _Megaf probably
19:58 sfan5 minimal will always be included unless we find a reason to omit it
19:58 redyellow It doesn't really make sense to include it
19:59 sfan5 paramat: greysand now has 2 approvals
19:59 sfan5 why not?
19:59 redyellow only the sort of people that complie minetest from source have a use for it
20:00 redyellow half of the game is code for testing stuff
20:01 paramat ok
20:01 est31 thats why it says "this is minimal and only intended for developers"
20:02 paramat minimal is probably useful in stable
20:02 paramat i always keep a 'last stable' version around for testing and comparing
20:06 _Megaf minimal is good for making mods too
20:08 redyellow you can't make a lot of mods using minimal
20:08 redyellow most mods depend on default
20:13 paramat i'll merge game#1310 also, a trivial tuning of ABM speed to match previous ABM version
20:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1310 -- Default/functions: Tune speed of grass spread ABM by paramat
20:15 paramat ok will merge games 1303 1306 1307 1310 in 20mins
20:21 sfan5 paramat: why can't we add bushes btw
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20:35 paramat we can, that's in the pipeline
20:36 Krock that pipeline with the valve on the one side?
20:36 nrzkt sfan5, i'm working on a worker for C++11 builds using gcc #4578, i will change our exclusion mode to inclusion matrix
20:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4578 -- [WIP] Changes on travis build matrix by nerzhul
20:36 Krock sometimes it flushes through, sometimes it gets stuck
20:36 paramat with the closed valve yes
20:37 sfan5 wait didn't you say that you don't want/like bushes?
20:37 sfan5 also for which biomes are bushes planned?
20:39 paramat est31 hmmmm nore nrzkt sfan5 sofar Tesseract rubenwardy we're considering a release for around winter solstice Dec 21st, 2.5 months from now
20:39 paramat erm we disagreed on some details, like bushes in jungles
20:40 est31 paramat, okay with me
20:40 nrzkt paramat, we're ? who ? because in the list you poke everybody except you in team :p
20:40 sfan5 lemme dig up the bushes pr again
20:40 paramat but they're good in savanna and maybe grassland too
20:40 paramat yeah there's new discussion
20:42 paramat and this time i think we can manage the release together
20:43 sofar I'd settle for bushes like mine in savannah's. I'd be exhilerated with small bush clumps in grassland
20:43 paramat yes i like the 3x3x2 savanna bushes
20:44 sfan5 nrzkt: see my comments
20:44 sofar how about a pine needle version of that in grassland?
20:44 nrzkt sfan5, did you remove the condition fix comment ? i saw it but after refresh... disappear (for the ||)
20:44 paramat those with generic 'bush leaves' nodes, in savanna and grassland is fine by me
20:44 sfan5 yes i added a more comprehensive one instead
20:44 paramat i'd rather keep pine nedles to pine trees
20:44 paramat (needles)
20:45 nrzkt nice idea for the compiler var :)
20:45 sfan5 keeps the code compact :)
20:45 paramat nrzkt by 'we' i meant a discussion a few devs had a few days ago
20:46 nrzkt paramat, who ? :)
20:46 nrzkt sfan5, yes ofc
20:46 nrzkt i think we could remove llvm install no ?
20:47 nrzkt it's included in base ?
20:47 nrzkt i will test it
20:47 paramat erm me, est, sfan .. can't remember
20:47 nrzkt ty paramat
20:47 nrzkt because apt-get install $COMPILER i think i can remove the clang + llvm 3.1
20:47 sfan5 not sure, try that before
20:47 sfan5 i think we used that because ubuntu 12.04 had outdated versions
20:48 nrzkt okay, but 16.04 is now out
20:48 nrzkt and 14.04 :)
20:48 sfan5 indeed
20:48 sfan5 we need travis to update
20:48 sfan5 but i'm sure you can set a newer version in travis
20:49 sfan5 i might try this with minetest/minetestmapper travis today
20:49 nrzkt will try it
20:49 nrzkt for this PR i can do some cleanups :)
20:49 nrzkt yes i can remove -std=c++11 because GCC 6.2 enable std=c++14
20:49 nrzkt i will test it by adding a std::unordered_map in map t obe sure
20:49 sfan5 paramat: so we can agree on acacia bushes whose trunks should drop sticks? and also the leaves should be a seperate node somehow?
20:50 paramat yes, the leaves nodes might drop sticks, we might use a trunk node at the centre to provide wood
20:51 paramat (for grassland)
20:51 sofar just do trunk + leaves
20:51 sfan5 why should the leaves drop sticks?
20:51 sofar I don't see why you'd make it more complex
20:51 sfan5 IMO there isn't much material in bush leaves
20:51 sofar keeps it simple for the players
20:51 paramat we could use the generic 'tree' node for the trunk
20:51 sfan5 so you can't justify it dropping sticks
20:51 sofar I don't see the need for it
20:51 sfan5 just make the trunk drop sticks
20:51 paramat fine by me
20:51 sofar why sticks?
20:52 paramat wood
20:52 sofar just make it drop a log like normal
20:52 sfan5 nah
20:52 sfan5 bushes are way less dense than normal trees
20:52 sfan5 it would be kinda weird if they dropped comparable amount of resources
20:52 sofar it's a blocky game with everything being 1m3
20:52 sofar lol
20:52 sofar sorry, I think it's overdoing it :)
20:53 paramat i know it's weird but the idea was to provide enough wood to make a tool, in grassland
20:54 sfan5 can't we make it drop half a wood node? :D
20:54 sofar how many bushes are you going to put in mapgen?
20:54 sofar that's really the question
20:54 paramat i guess it could directly drop a small amount of wood
20:55 sofar if you are going to make a significant amount, then maybe, it makes sense to limit resources
20:55 sofar if you are going to scatter a few very far apart, then it doesn't matter
20:55 paramat i was thinking quite scattered and sparse in grassland, but larger clumps in savanna
20:55 sofar say, 5 bushes in a 200x200 space
20:55 sofar each 1 trunk
20:56 sofar that's 5 trunks in a 40000 node surface
20:56 paramat in savanna density is not an issue because trees
20:56 sofar who cares it's 5 logs instead of 10 sticks?
20:56 sofar it's still not enough to build a house!
20:56 sofar (20 planks doesn't make a shed, even)
20:57 sofar sure, it's 80 sticks, so I can make a nice long ladder and some basic tools
20:57 paramat the issue is, whether to provide wood for tools in grassland, if not sticks might be more suitable
20:57 paramat i'm not too bothered either way
20:57 sofar either way you look at it, if you make it sparse enough it's not enough to do major construction
20:58 sofar so don't bother making it drop even less artificially
20:58 nrzkt okay then there is g++-6 usage https://travis-ci.org/minet​est/minetest/jobs/165354980 but i need to ensure it work by adding c++11 container explicitely to code :)
20:58 paramat yeah
20:59 paramat the new biomes mean that there's more chance player is a long way from any forest
20:59 paramat personally i think that's good for exploration
21:00 Fixer i really miss this: possibility to see rough map of a given seed before world creation
21:00 Fixer not all seeds are nice
21:00 Fixer some are boring
21:01 paramat my latest core mapgen has a way to shrink the whole world down to a 3D map
21:01 paramat very useful for devving
21:01 paramat but could be used by players too
21:02 paramat you can zoom to any scale
21:02 Fixer lets say i want seed with island in ocean
21:03 Fixer minecraft has nice configuration menu for world, ore settings, water level, here it is hard to adjust water level
21:03 Fixer i want ocean world, that means i need to write my mod
21:03 Fixer or arctic only world
21:03 sofar water level can be tuned
21:05 Fixer on my first try I increased water level up and made arctic only, but then I discovered underground trees :)
21:05 Fixer underwater*
21:06 nrzkt if that build pass https://travis-ci.org/minet​est/minetest/jobs/165356862 we have working c++11 CI. and then i will squash my commits. Can you review a last time sfan5 please ? (except the std::unordered change which is just for testing)
21:07 sfan5 in a few mins, sure
21:10 nrzkt nice build pass
21:11 paramat yes changing water level screws up any non-mgv6 mapgen unless you reregister all biomes and decorations
21:11 paramat better to use noise params to lower terrain
21:12 sfan5 nrzkt: see comments
21:12 sfan5 if you fix that you have my +1
21:12 nrzkt fixed the two conditions :)
21:12 nrzkt strange, unittests are not working with C++11
21:13 nrzkt somes are unconditonally failing
21:13 sfan5 is it pcg random?
21:13 sfan5 or something with streams & floats?
21:13 nrzkt [FAIL] testAllSettings - 1ms
21:13 nrzkt [FAIL] testAtomicSemaphoreThread - 7ms
21:14 nrzkt only those
21:14 paramat it possible to write mods that create miniature 3D 'seed previews' of the core mapgens
21:14 sfan5 never seen those fail
21:15 nrzkt i know but two builds failed exactly here
21:15 nrzkt comparing const char* vs std::string
21:15 nrzkt it's not good in c++11
21:16 nrzkt on my pc cannot reproduce easily, coredump on floating point exception
21:16 sfan5 same here
21:17 nrzkt systematic on the test after testPcgRandom
21:19 paramat (will merge those 4 game PRs in a moment)
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21:22 nrzkt sfan5, in fact in debug mode i have the unit tests problem mentionned by travis and in release mode the floating point failure
21:24 nrzkt sfan5, the problem is the std::unordered_map i used in a previous commit sfan5 for the settings
21:24 nrzkt the generated string is different
21:25 sfan5 ah yes
21:26 sfan5 serialization gets non-deterministic with unordered maps
21:26 nrzkt i don't know how fix this... except remove this test
21:26 sfan5 which one? (github code link please)
21:27 paramat merging
21:27 nrzkt sfan5, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/​master/src/unittest/test_settings.cpp#L200
21:28 nrzkt this line
21:28 sfan5 hm yes that's hard
21:28 sfan5 comment it out for now i guess
21:29 nrzkt sfan5, or ifndef c++11 like ?
21:29 nrzkt to use it in old builds but not in c++11 ?
21:29 sfan5 that works too
21:31 paramat merge complete
21:31 nrzkt lol
21:32 nrzkt testAtomicSemaphoreThread problem is only due to uninitalized variable and c++11 doesn't like it
21:32 nrzkt random value in atomic :)
21:34 I_wish_I_was_a_l #3900
21:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001
21:34 I_wish_I_was_a_l #3900
21:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001
21:40 _Megaf T4im: [22:29:52] <MinetestBot> [git] t4im -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix sapling placement handling of on_rightclick and CONTENT_IGNORE 32f7051 https://git.io/vPnSd (2016-10-05T22:22:15+01:00)
21:40 _Megaf awesome!
21:41 nrzkt sfan5, i found the problem i think
21:41 nrzkt 0 % 0
21:41 nrzkt i think
21:43 nrzkt very very strange
21:43 nrzkt if (bound == 0)
21:43 nrzkt return next();
21:43 nrzkt but
21:43 nrzkt i have this line after
21:43 nrzkt std::cout << bound << " test2" << std::endl;
21:43 nrzkt and it works
21:43 nrzkt ...
21:43 nrzkt and bound = 0
21:45 nrzkt sfan5, i'm waiting for travis but did you agree with last version ?
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22:26 _Megaf Some of the latest commits broke minetestserver!! #4579
22:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4579 -- SEG FAULT on entering anything on the curses terminal.
22:27 _Megaf sfan5: nrzkt paramat ˆ
22:28 nrzkt merging #4578
22:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4578 -- Changes on travis build matrix by nerzhul
22:38 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
22:40 kahrl left #minetest-dev
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