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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-07-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 hmmmm nope
00:00 hmmmm set_noiseparams() is still necessary for global settings
00:00 hmmmm i will however move it to l_settings.cpp in the future
00:01 hmmmm or rather, deprecate it and replace it with a generic settings group interface that works on an arbitrary table
00:01 hmmmm set/get_noiseparams will be implemented in lua
00:04 hmmmm i made it so that you can't set mapgen settings while the mapgen is running, but even if you did, it would be meaningless without re-generating the MapgenParams structure
00:05 hmmmm i suppose it is possible to safely do by surrounding all access to any Mapgen with a mutex, and if mg_name changed, reallocate the mapgens between makeChunk calls
00:05 hmmmm but why would you want to do that?
00:08 paramat yeah just seen 'if (mapgen_params) return false'
00:09 paramat and indeed we don't need to do this
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00:14 hmmmm like
00:15 hmmmm maybe i can see there being potential for a game that wants to change mapgen params including mapgen on runtime to enter into a new realm or so to spaek
00:15 hmmmm but if that's the case then why isn't it using a lua mapgen to start with
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00:26 paramat i didn't fully understand all of this, but i understood more than i expected to. +1 for what it's worth
00:30 sofar hmmmm: it may be interesting to make a mapgen that continuously adjusts params based on gameplay
00:31 paramat i like the new functionality. looking forward to dungeon params being easily settable the same way, had a request for this today
00:31 hmmmm the best part about all this is, now adding adjustable DungeonParams is downright trivial
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00:51 paramat game#1171
00:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1171 -- Remove reverse crafting of mese crystals and fragments
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02:17 paramat game#1172
02:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1172 -- Default/mapgen: Add precious ores above y = 1024 by paramat
02:18 VanessaE "There's gold in them thar hills!"
02:23 paramat VanessaE, you may want to comment on game 1171, bbl
02:24 VanessaE I have no opinion on it.
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03:33 paramat shocking
03:55 VanessaE what
04:04 paramat you having no opinion :]
04:06 VanessaE :P
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04:16 paramat does anyone use the 'melty' group? it was added to steel door on 19 Nov 2012 by PilzAdam
04:17 paramat i can't see 'melty' used anywhere
04:24 paramat i'll remove it then next chance
04:29 VanessaE you may as well remove it along with that other group
04:29 VanessaE wtf was it.. weather related..
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05:11 paramat 'hot'
05:12 paramat which is still lava groups
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05:18 VanessaE hm, I thought it was something else
05:18 VanessaE roughly similar to melty..
05:19 VanessaE *shrug*
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05:43 sofar paramat: https://github.com/PilzAdam/nether/pull/20 ?
05:46 paramat looking
05:51 paramat +1
05:57 sofar aight, bedtime again, I'm out
05:58 paramat will merge games 1167 1169 1170 in a moment
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06:08 paramat merging
06:11 paramat done
06:13 paramat minetest has 650 issues but the good news is 308 are feature requests, and only 181 are bugs :]
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09:20 tenplus1 pull game#1081 restructured to remove place_liquid function, need dev to look at it plz
09:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1081 -- Placing liquid in protected area fixed by tenplus1
09:25 tenplus1 ...also game#1085 amended for server use
09:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1085 -- Disabling TNT by tenplus1
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12:48 tenplus1 pull game#1081 updated with HybridDog's latest pull...  could a dev check pls for addition
12:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1081 -- Placing liquid in protected area fixed by tenplus1
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14:32 T4im xunto: you said yesterday, you are already using the linting stuff for your game; does that include travis usage? if yes, then it would be helpful to know, if that works, or if game#1165 still needs some changes for that
14:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1165 -- Let Travis-CI automatically lint the lua code of the game. by t4im
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16:05 hmmmm hey guys, do you think auto-item-pickup is a feature used often enough to warrant being put into the engine?
16:06 hmmmm the operation could be a lot faster than it exists right now by making silly approximations of 'nearness'
16:07 hmmmm truncate the coordinates for each active item by a factor of two and insert that into a multimap.  when the player steps do a lookup on that map and any items in that grid will then start getting vaccumed up
16:07 T4im sounds like a great idea imo; it also seems to be one of the more expensive operations during profiling usually
16:07 Fixer some people will welcome it, including me
16:08 hmmmm the only problem with this is that people will undoubtably want the sucking radius to be adjustable, but it needs to remain small in order to keep the illusion of working properly
16:09 nore hmmmm: idea then:
16:09 nore store the items like that
16:10 nore but when player is somewhere, walk among the positions that may contain items close enough
16:10 nore and among those items, check those that are actually close enough
16:10 hmmmm oh yeah i guess that makes sense too
16:10 nore it's a bit more expensive, but not that much
16:10 hmmmm so that'd be like 8 more lookups
16:10 hmmmm maybe 4 if you're willing to make assumptions about the surface
16:10 nore if the step is close to the size of radius
16:11 hmmmm here's one of my wackier ideas that may still have some merit:
16:11 nore 8 multimap lookups is not something expensive
16:11 nore even 1000 is still ok
16:11 hmmmm 3 multimaps, designated for each coordinate x y z
16:11 hmmmm each item position is stored in each of these three
16:11 hmmmm so that's 3x storage space
16:11 nore hm...
16:12 hmmmm now the players maintain their position inside of these maps
16:12 nore what about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R*_tree
16:12 hmmmm remember they're ordered so we maintain an iterator per-player in each of these three maps
16:12 hmmmm only problem is that if an item is inserted close to the player that might invalidate their iterator...
16:12 nore hmmmm: no, multimap iterators are not invalidated by inserting items
16:13 nore I checked that
16:13 nore since this feature is used in the nodetimer efficiency code
16:13 hmmmm but anyway the neighboring values would get checked for being within the radius
16:13 nore hmmmm: but what not use specialized spatial data structures?
16:14 hmmmm say for X multimap:  207, 207,  <player here>, 406, 435    |  Y multimap:  0, <player here>, 10 | Z multimap:  50, 60, <player here>, 90
16:14 hmmmm so it'd do a check on the flink and blink
16:14 hmmmm if blink is > current_pos.X - radius then reject
16:14 hmmmm and so on and so forth with all of the 6 neighbors
16:15 hmmmm if one of them passes all the constraints you can consider it 'near' and then use that one
16:15 xunto >(05:32:29 PM) T4im: xunto: you said yesterday, you are already using the linting stuff for your game; does that include travis usage? if yes, then it would be helpful to know, if that works, or if game#1165 still needs some changes for that
16:15 xunto It works but building of environment is too long. You can't do anything about this but it's quite faster to execute luacheck manually.
16:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1165 -- Let Travis-CI automatically lint the lua code of the game. by t4im
16:16 hmmmm the issue with R trees is that the sectors need to move around
16:16 hmmmm err wait
16:16 xunto ofc it's still usefull for checking incoming pull requests
16:16 hmmmm no each item would be the sector
16:17 T4im xunto: alright thanks, that helps
16:17 nore hmmmm: no, the x/y/z idea wouldn't work
16:17 nore let's say the player is at 0,0,0
16:17 nore there's an item at 1,1,1 that should be taken
16:17 nore but there are items at 0.5,100,100, 100,0.5,100 and 100,100,0.5
16:18 hmmmm well the item you're matching the constraints against would need to be the same item
16:18 nore yes
16:19 hmmmm that can be checked no problem
16:19 nore but you'll have a lot of checks to do
16:19 hmmmm so it'd require 6 lookups
16:19 hmmmm maximum
16:19 nore no, why would it?
16:19 nore let's say you're walking the x multimap
16:20 nore you first hit the 0.5,100,100 item
16:20 nore and you say that it is too far and abort
16:20 nore it will be the same for the other items
16:20 nore and you won't get to the 1,1,1 one
16:21 hmmmm oh no you don't understand
16:21 hmmmm i'm not *walking* these multimaps, the player is already there
16:21 hmmmm so the multimap should look like
16:22 hmmmm (0.5, 100, 100), <player here>, (1, 1, 1)
16:22 hmmmm sorted by the X value
16:22 nore no, the player is at 0,0,0
16:22 hmmmm right
16:22 nore so it would be <player here>, (0.5, 100, 100), (1, 1, 1°
16:22 nore s/°/)/
16:22 hmmmm oh right the player is 0.0
16:22 hmmmm well it wouldn't be rejected right away
16:23 hmmmm it'd look past the immediate neighbors until all X values are out of range
16:23 hmmmm this would make operations slow if there were many items in a straight line though...
16:23 nore ^ that means that items far away would ruin performance
16:23 nore the other solution was better
16:24 nore but still, I'd say a specialized spatial data structure (I think we even have this code in the engine now) should be better for that
16:30 hmmmm i think an R-tree might be a corrected version of what I proposed...
16:30 hmmmm i'm reading about it right now
16:32 hmmmm oh i see how an R tree works.
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17:04 hmmmm really wish est didn't go with a C++ library for the spatial areastore support...
17:05 hmmmm as if leveldb isn't enough of a nightmare to get working :) lol
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22:37 paramat please can anyone review hmmmm's important mapgen parameters commit? https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/30b77a79505f4e32df5d00d0c8e2ea50f63900c3
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