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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-02-12

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Time Nick Message
00:36 paramat joined #minetest-dev
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00:43 paramat RBA changing BS will have to be a MTHD thing, it won't be allowed n MT. i agree camera offset distance is too small, perhaps 1000?, i might make a PR. camera offset is not the main cause of stuttering, that happens all the time not every 200 nodes
00:48 RealBadAngel paramat, im not quite sure if it will be worth it, i keep getting mixed results
00:48 RealBadAngel but offset indeed could be changed
00:49 paramat ok
00:49 RealBadAngel i will play with the issue later on, atm i dont have time for something unrelated to deferred rendering
00:59 Fixer stutter happens when there is meshgen spike // Captain Obvious
00:59 Fixer coincidence? don't think so
01:04 RealBadAngel well, whatever is the reason of updating meshes, it has to be limited, its a pure nonsense having mesh updated because time of day changed, player moved a bit and crossed camera offset change line, etc
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01:04 RealBadAngel makin mesh is heavy duty stuff and have to be avoided at all costs
01:07 RealBadAngel atm there are 3 reasons left that are making mesh dirty -> time of day (lighting will fix it), cracks (have to be removed same way as halo), and camera offset (not quite sure how to get rid of it completely)
01:09 RealBadAngel well, 4. changing any node meta is causing complete up to 7 mapblock meshes regen
01:10 RealBadAngel with all those 4 issues solved we can enable VBO and go further
01:10 RealBadAngel at least thats the plan ;)
01:54 VanessaE RealBadAngel: the camera offset can only be dealt with properly by splitting the world into many (thousands of) irrlicht Scene Nodes
01:54 VanessaE it's there because the map is one big scene node, and the camera gets glitchy once you get more than a few hundred meters from the camera's origin
01:55 VanessaE or rather, the rendering precision becomes a problem and it LOOKS glitchy.
01:55 paramat would 1000 nodes be okay for the offset distance? it should be maximised
01:55 VanessaE paramat: nope.
01:56 VanessaE even 1000 is enough to see the glitch, if you're looking for it
01:56 VanessaE I don't recall why 200 in particular was chosen, though
01:56 RealBadAngel VanessaE, i was looking hard with offset set to 2k and couldnt find any
01:57 VanessaE it probably depends partly on the video driver and irrlicht version
01:58 VanessaE either way, there is only one proper way to fix it.
01:58 VanessaE the proposal at the time was to make each Minetest mapblock a scene node.
02:14 paramat i think 200 is a little too low, as it apparently causes mesh updates
02:16 paramat need to discuss with nore though
02:25 RealBadAngel not really mesh updates but shitload of operations on vertices adding offseted pos to them
02:27 paramat ok
02:29 RealBadAngel if we consider using VBO it will also mean that mesh have to be reuploaded to GPU VRAM
02:52 VanessaE RealBadAngel: but that doesn't answer the scene node problem.
02:52 VanessaE adjusting the camera offset is just delaying the inevitable.
02:54 RealBadAngel im trying to figure out best solution
02:54 RealBadAngel and im not sure about scene nodes idea
02:54 * VanessaE shrugs
02:55 VanessaE I leave it to you guys to find the best way
02:56 RealBadAngel fuck, i wrote perfect code for something, then was looking for whole day why it is not working at all
02:56 RealBadAngel damn misplaced bracket
02:57 RealBadAngel it threw a bit of code out of scope lol
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04:44 RealBadAngel kahrl, here?
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06:48 sofar why is my character.b3d rotated 90 degrees when I export?
06:48 sofar I don't see any b3d export options for axis
06:57 sofar anyone know what's the proper B3Dexport.py script to use?
06:57 paramat no idea
06:58 sofar I tried a different one but that one plainly is broken
07:00 sofar there's a small problem with character.b3d that I want to fix
07:00 sofar I've managed to fix it
07:00 sofar but now I can't export it properly back :(
07:02 paramat btw i will merge game#789 game#833 later
07:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/789 -- New mesh door models, and extensive door API by sofar
07:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/833 -- Convert furnace ABM to node timer by sofar
07:02 sofar neat
07:10 sofar hmmm kilbith was the person who made b3d files out of character.x
07:11 sofar I wonder if he has an exporter that doesn't futz the axes
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11:32 RealBadAngel #3695
11:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3695 -- Use vertices with tangents only when its needed. by RealBadAngel
11:33 RealBadAngel ^^ some mapblock mesh rework
11:34 * RealBadAngel yawns
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14:22 kaadmy sofar: i use one that someone pointed me towards, it works fine
14:22 Taoki RealBadAngel: Any estimation as to when we can hope for bloom and DoF to make it in master? Just waiting for confirmation that they will be there... especially now that I'm working on a Minetest game designed to have fancy graphics and shaders too.
14:22 kaadmy b3d exporter*
14:23 RealBadAngel Taoki, dunno, i still have lotsa things to code
14:23 Taoki ok
14:23 Taoki Hope 3D plantlike / torchlike is still among them BTW. I think that's a more urgent visual improvement anyway.
14:24 Taoki IIRC you got it working with waving plants last time, so hopefully not much is left there.
14:25 kaadmy Taoki: would having the *thin* drawtypes like signlike, torchlike, plantlike extruded look better?
14:25 Taoki kaadmy: There's already screenshots and videos of it. They certainly do! At least I think so.
14:25 kaadmy in master?
14:25 RealBadAngel kaadmy, having flat torches is lookin ANY good to you?
14:26 Taoki Not in master yet, but it was coded.
14:26 Taoki It going i master is my point :P
14:26 kaadmy RealBadAngel: flat torches look retarded :)
14:29 RealBadAngel same as plants
14:30 Taoki Yep
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15:55 Fixer RealBadAngel, will check it out
15:55 RealBadAngel Fixer, ok, let me know
15:58 RealBadAngel funny, i just got an attack of stuttering, it was starting a minute or so after starting game, so even walking was choking. played a bit with camera far plane to see if that would help
15:59 Fixer and?
15:59 RealBadAngel it looked like it helped, so reverted all the changes to see if stuttering will back
15:59 RealBadAngel and i cant reproduce stuttering anymore lol
16:00 Fixer RealBadAngel, yes, that's the problem, one time i was having very baad stutter with shaders disabled, next day - gone o_0
16:00 RealBadAngel fuck me walking if i know whats the reason
16:00 RealBadAngel weather on mars or what?
16:01 Fixer mm? i get stutter when new blocks are generated
16:01 Fixer simple
16:01 RealBadAngel no that not a reason
16:01 Fixer est31 said it is uploading to gpu
16:01 RealBadAngel atm im walkin around, with debug code to control whats going on with mapblock meshes
16:02 RealBadAngel cant see any difference
16:02 Fixer walk in a forests %)
16:02 RealBadAngel from time to time some meshes got updates
16:02 RealBadAngel i do
16:02 RealBadAngel propably because of growing grasses etc
16:02 Fixer stutter in multiplayer is also present, that is funny
16:03 Fixer so it is not mapgen
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16:03 Fixer at least partially
16:03 RealBadAngel it seems to be tottally random
16:04 RealBadAngel i was able to observe it for 15 minutes or so, many client restarts with different settings, was trying to determine whats the reason
16:04 RealBadAngel now its completely gone
16:04 Fixer your videocard has clock frequency autochange support?
16:05 Fixer RealBadAngel, https://i.imgur.com/OdTgVnF.png
16:06 Fixer RealBadAngel, three minetest runs
16:06 RealBadAngel idk
16:06 RealBadAngel havent played with gpu settings
16:06 Fixer RealBadAngel, sometimes GPU/MEM clocks drop from 1000 to 750 or even 150, for very short time, few times, not sure if it is the cause
16:08 Fixer RealBadAngel, try walking on this test world -> https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/files/101456/Just.Test.zip
16:08 RealBadAngel if you can observe stuttering check the clocks then
16:08 RealBadAngel if thats related
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16:25 Fixer RealBadAngel, looks like it is not related
16:28 Fixer hold on
16:28 RealBadAngel can anybody tell what version of irrlicht travis is using?
16:28 RealBadAngel error: ‘EGDS_BUTTON_PRESSED_IMAGE_OFFSET_Y’ is not a member of ‘irr::gui’
16:29 Fixer RealBadAngel, on heavy world, it can stutter when clocks go down to 150MHz for some reason, but there are stutters at FULL clock
16:29 Fixer hmmm
16:29 RealBadAngel https://travis-ci.org/minete​st/minetest/builds/108787153
16:29 RealBadAngel Fixer, so thats not related
16:30 Fixer RealBadAngel, hold on
16:30 Fixer RealBadAngel, it is partially related
16:30 Fixer RealBadAngel, if stutter is really deep it is clocks going to min for 1 sec or so
16:31 RealBadAngel Fixer, so related or not?
16:32 Fixer RealBadAngel, only for some deep stutters, it is partially related, some stutters are caused by frequencies some are not
16:36 Fixer RealBadAngel, pff, why on earth it lower the frequencies when i load heavy MT scene with 30 fps :(
16:37 RealBadAngel theres some auto tune code in mt
16:38 RealBadAngel i wonder if it doesnt work the opposite as it should
16:38 RealBadAngel first of all, why the hell camera far plane is not set when lowering view range?
16:39 RealBadAngel and why fog doesnt match view range
16:54 Fixer RealBadAngel, clock powersaving can cause some stutters, but not a whole lot to account for everything (most of the time MEM clock is at 75% (lol), GPU is at 100%)
16:55 Fixer RealBadAngel, also, some time clocks going down does not cause stutter at all
16:55 Fixer RealBadAngel, lots of time actually
16:55 Fixer RealBadAngel, so it is not powersaving problem only, other sources are at work
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17:24 RealBadAngel Fixer, have you tested 3695?
17:27 Fixer RealBadAngel, just walked, let me eat something, i will test deeper
17:27 RealBadAngel sure
17:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, why on earth drop frequencies down to 15% level for very short time in heavy minetest scene? feels like source of the problem is MT, that reduces (?) gpu load for very short time, causing frequinces down and big stutter after
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17:29 Fixer and frequiences back to normal
17:29 Fixer maximum 1 sec for this all
17:29 RealBadAngel it may be this auto tune code
17:31 RealBadAngel from quick look it works that way: if it takes too long, lets lower wanted fps
17:31 RealBadAngel then gpu thinks theres less to do, lower clocks
17:31 RealBadAngel then mt again lowers wanted fps
17:32 RealBadAngel until it chockes itself and gpu is sitting idle laughing
17:32 RealBadAngel pretty funny
17:33 RealBadAngel also i like the code for trying to be smarter than hardware
17:33 RealBadAngel far clipping plane is actually disabled no matter what
17:34 RealBadAngel the code that sets it looks like it could set an actual value
17:34 RealBadAngel if far plane could be further than 20000
17:35 RealBadAngel total absurd
17:35 RealBadAngel so, no matter what far is always 2000
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17:35 RealBadAngel 20k i mean
17:45 RealBadAngel Fixer, i will make a patch with manual only view range control so you can test it
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18:15 RealBadAngel Fixer, wanna test it?
18:19 RealBadAngel im playing with it right now, it looks like it allows me to set viewing distance at which framerate wont drop below 60fps no matter whats visible
18:20 RealBadAngel like shitload of trees with snow nodeboxes on them
18:22 Fixer RealBadAngel, yes
18:22 Fixer RealBadAngel, i need .diff
18:23 RealBadAngel it will be easier, open camera.cpp please
18:23 Fixer done
18:24 RealBadAngel find void Camera::updateViewingRange(f32 frametime_in, f32 busytime_in) should be line 484
18:24 RealBadAngel and paste this at the start of the function
18:24 Fixer yes
18:24 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/sCedr3Jr
18:27 Fixer RealBadAngel, like this? http://pastebin.com/raw/agDEK9YB
18:28 RealBadAngel yeah
18:35 RealBadAngel Fixer, and?
18:37 Fixer RealBadAngel, compiling
18:37 Fixer RealBadAngel, not so fast
18:37 Fixer RealBadAngel, at 20%
18:38 RealBadAngel i thought you have i3?
18:38 Fixer RealBadAngel, 3695 fixed mesh lag issue for me, will test performance later
18:38 Fixer RealBadAngel, i compile in Debian VM
18:39 Fixer RealBadAngel, cross compilation for windows from VM with debian*
18:39 Fixer RealBadAngel, it is 2x slower
18:39 RealBadAngel aw lol
18:39 Fixer it is much easier
18:42 RealBadAngel no doubts, compilin on windows is pain in the ass
18:43 Fixer i've compiled on it some years ago, on xp, with celeron script
18:43 Fixer on msvc
18:50 RealBadAngel i have a feeling that game runs much smoother with this patch
18:50 Fixer 100%
18:50 Fixer i mean compiled just now
18:51 Fixer 15 min %)
18:52 RealBadAngel with distance ~100 i can see fixed 60fps
18:52 RealBadAngel no fuckin matter what
18:53 Fixer starting, shaders enabled
18:54 Fixer walking, will start monitoring program
18:54 Fixer it feels smooth on just test, walking more
18:56 Fixer RealBadAngel, woah
18:58 Fixer RealBadAngel, i see fog fluctuation
19:00 RealBadAngel fog would need to be fixed, so clouds
19:01 Fixer RealBadAngel, it feels smoother, let my try next server
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19:06 Fixer hmm
19:07 Fixer RealBadAngel, very interesting, looking linuxgaming now
19:07 Fixer RealBadAngel, much less stutters for me, strangely, more smooth
19:10 Fixer RealBadAngel, linuxgaming seems slow, not all blocks are loaded, but smoothness is amazing when there are no activity
19:10 Fixer super flat
19:16 Fixer RealBadAngel, LinuxGaming looks smoother, few deep stutters, also, when packets arrieve, draw curve becames somewhat unsettled
19:16 Fixer RealBadAngel, but when no net activity, walking in loaded chunks are very good
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19:27 RealBadAngel fixer, so, overall how it feels?
19:27 sofar what did you add RBA?
19:27 RealBadAngel rather what ive trashed ;)
19:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, smoother, but in singleplayer stutters are present, but when no activity it is goood
19:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, doing more testsw
19:28 RealBadAngel sofar, http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2016-02-12#i_4531932
19:29 Fixer RealBadAngel, wait, do i need to specify _max range?
19:29 RealBadAngel use +-
19:31 Fixer RealBadAngel, hmm, removed back max range and now it feels much better, not sure why
19:31 RealBadAngel ive set i menu also wanted fps = 60, min 60
19:31 RealBadAngel im not sure if it counts at all
19:32 Fixer RealBadAngel, singleplayer looks seriously better
19:34 Fixer RealBadAngel, feels really smooth and good most of the time, hmm
19:35 Fixer RealBadAngel, i will do automated tests, need 20 min or so
19:36 RealBadAngel when you start game with creating server instead of famous singleplayer, it works indeed better
19:36 Fixer RealBadAngel, i start singleplayer as always
19:38 RealBadAngel btw, when you now set a viewing distance, its a real one
19:39 RealBadAngel no fancy gimmicks with drawing blocks or not, its a circle around you
19:40 RealBadAngel thats why fog doesnt fit
19:41 Amaz RealBadAngel, with the latest git I'm sometimes getting problems with node highlighting. The box sometimes, seemingly randomly, turns opaque for a random period of time... https://i.imgur.com/SUleY1t.png
19:41 RealBadAngel before it was drawn on things theoretically on things outside viewing range
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19:41 RealBadAngel Amaz, i know about it, havent found the reason for it yet
19:42 Amaz Ah, okay
19:42 Amaz Thanks!
19:42 Fixer doing some test, need 20 min
19:42 RealBadAngel ok
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20:21 Fixer RealBadAngel, tested in no mapgen environment, some liquid flows were possible on a test, here my results
20:21 Fixer RealBadAngel, https://i.imgur.com/194Yxxp.png
20:22 Fixer RealBadAngel, in general, with your changes you get little performance boost, but stutters are the same
20:23 Fixer RealBadAngel, as you can see both curves on graph #3 became one somewhere near stutter zone (which is at the end - highest spikes)
20:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault
20:24 * Fixer >_> ShadowBot
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21:41 Fixer RealBadAngel, this one with mapgen v6 test: https://i.imgur.com/zGKTue0.png
21:42 Fixer RealBadAngel, very slight fps boost, but stutters are the same, so it is not fixing the stutters unfortunately
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23:55 RealBadAngel Fixer, pity :( im quite suprised because it really does feel smoother

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