Time  Nick           Message
00:43 paramat        RBA changing BS will have to be a MTHD thing, it won't be allowed n MT. i agree camera offset distance is too small, perhaps 1000?, i might make a PR. camera offset is not the main cause of stuttering, that happens all the time not every 200 nodes
00:48 RealBadAngel   paramat, im not quite sure if it will be worth it, i keep getting mixed results
00:48 RealBadAngel   but offset indeed could be changed
00:49 paramat        ok
00:49 RealBadAngel   i will play with the issue later on, atm i dont have time for something unrelated to deferred rendering
00:59 Fixer          stutter happens when there is meshgen spike // Captain Obvious
00:59 Fixer          coincidence? don't think so
01:04 RealBadAngel   well, whatever is the reason of updating meshes, it has to be limited, its a pure nonsense having mesh updated because time of day changed, player moved a bit and crossed camera offset change line, etc
01:04 RealBadAngel   makin mesh is heavy duty stuff and have to be avoided at all costs
01:07 RealBadAngel   atm there are 3 reasons left that are making mesh dirty -> time of day (lighting will fix it), cracks (have to be removed same way as halo), and camera offset (not quite sure how to get rid of it completely)
01:09 RealBadAngel   well, 4. changing any node meta is causing complete up to 7 mapblock meshes regen
01:10 RealBadAngel   with all those 4 issues solved we can enable VBO and go further
01:10 RealBadAngel   at least thats the plan ;)
01:54 VanessaE       RealBadAngel: the camera offset can only be dealt with properly by splitting the world into many (thousands of) irrlicht Scene Nodes
01:54 VanessaE       it's there because the map is one big scene node, and the camera gets glitchy once you get more than a few hundred meters from the camera's origin
01:55 VanessaE       or rather, the rendering precision becomes a problem and it LOOKS glitchy.
01:55 paramat        would 1000 nodes be okay for the offset distance? it should be maximised
01:55 VanessaE       paramat: nope.
01:56 VanessaE       even 1000 is enough to see the glitch, if you're looking for it
01:56 VanessaE       I don't recall why 200 in particular was chosen, though
01:56 RealBadAngel   VanessaE, i was looking hard with offset set to 2k and couldnt find any
01:57 VanessaE       it probably depends partly on the video driver and irrlicht version
01:58 VanessaE       either way, there is only one proper way to fix it.
01:58 VanessaE       the proposal at the time was to make each Minetest mapblock a scene node.
02:14 paramat        i think 200 is a little too low, as it apparently causes mesh updates
02:16 paramat        need to discuss with nore though
02:25 RealBadAngel   not really mesh updates but shitload of operations on vertices adding offseted pos to them
02:27 paramat        ok
02:29 RealBadAngel   if we consider using VBO it will also mean that mesh have to be reuploaded to GPU VRAM
02:52 VanessaE       RealBadAngel: but that doesn't answer the scene node problem.
02:52 VanessaE       adjusting the camera offset is just delaying the inevitable.
02:54 RealBadAngel   im trying to figure out best solution
02:54 RealBadAngel   and im not sure about scene nodes idea
02:54 * VanessaE     shrugs
02:55 VanessaE       I leave it to you guys to find the best way
02:56 RealBadAngel   fuck, i wrote perfect code for something, then was looking for whole day why it is not working at all
02:56 RealBadAngel   damn misplaced bracket
02:57 RealBadAngel   it threw a bit of code out of scope lol
04:44 RealBadAngel   kahrl, here?
06:48 sofar          why is my character.b3d rotated 90 degrees when I export?
06:48 sofar          I don't see any b3d export options for axis
06:57 sofar          anyone know what's the proper B3Dexport.py script to use?
06:57 paramat        no idea
06:58 sofar          I tried a different one but that one plainly is broken
07:00 sofar          there's a small problem with character.b3d that I want to fix
07:00 sofar          I've managed to fix it
07:00 sofar          but now I can't export it properly back :(
07:02 paramat        btw i will merge game#789 game#833 later
07:02 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/789 -- New mesh door models, and extensive door API by sofar
07:02 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/833 -- Convert furnace ABM to node timer by sofar
07:02 sofar          neat
07:10 sofar          hmmm kilbith was the person who made b3d files out of character.x
07:11 sofar          I wonder if he has an exporter that doesn't futz the axes
11:32 RealBadAngel   #3695
11:32 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3695 -- Use vertices with tangents only when its needed. by RealBadAngel
11:33 RealBadAngel   ^^ some mapblock mesh rework
11:34 * RealBadAngel yawns
14:22 kaadmy         sofar: i use one that someone pointed me towards, it works fine
14:22 Taoki          RealBadAngel: Any estimation as to when we can hope for bloom and DoF to make it in master? Just waiting for confirmation that they will be there... especially now that I'm working on a Minetest game designed to have fancy graphics and shaders too.
14:22 kaadmy         b3d exporter*
14:23 RealBadAngel   Taoki, dunno, i still have lotsa things to code
14:23 Taoki          ok
14:23 Taoki          Hope 3D plantlike / torchlike is still among them BTW. I think that's a more urgent visual improvement anyway.
14:24 Taoki          IIRC you got it working with waving plants last time, so hopefully not much is left there.
14:25 kaadmy         Taoki: would having the *thin* drawtypes like signlike, torchlike, plantlike extruded look better?
14:25 Taoki          kaadmy: There's already screenshots and videos of it. They certainly do! At least I think so.
14:25 kaadmy         in master?
14:25 RealBadAngel   kaadmy, having flat torches is lookin ANY good to you?
14:26 Taoki          Not in master yet, but it was coded.
14:26 Taoki          It going i master is my point :P
14:26 kaadmy         RealBadAngel: flat torches look retarded :)
14:29 RealBadAngel   same as plants
14:30 Taoki          Yep
15:55 Fixer          RealBadAngel, will check it out
15:55 RealBadAngel   Fixer, ok, let me know
15:58 RealBadAngel   funny, i just got an attack of stuttering, it was starting a minute or so after starting game, so even walking was choking. played a bit with camera far plane to see if that would help
15:59 Fixer          and?
15:59 RealBadAngel   it looked like it helped, so reverted all the changes to see if stuttering will back
15:59 RealBadAngel   and i cant reproduce stuttering anymore lol
16:00 Fixer          RealBadAngel, yes, that's the problem, one time i was having very baad stutter with shaders disabled, next day - gone o_0
16:00 RealBadAngel   fuck me walking if i know whats the reason
16:00 RealBadAngel   weather on mars or what?
16:01 Fixer          mm? i get stutter when new blocks are generated
16:01 Fixer          simple
16:01 RealBadAngel   no that not a reason
16:01 Fixer          est31 said it is uploading to gpu
16:01 RealBadAngel   atm im walkin around, with debug code to control whats going on with mapblock meshes
16:02 RealBadAngel   cant see any difference
16:02 Fixer          walk in a forests %)
16:02 RealBadAngel   from time to time some meshes got updates
16:02 RealBadAngel   i do
16:02 RealBadAngel   propably because of growing grasses etc
16:02 Fixer          stutter in multiplayer is also present, that is funny
16:03 Fixer          so it is not mapgen
16:03 Fixer          at least partially
16:03 RealBadAngel   it seems to be tottally random
16:04 RealBadAngel   i was able to observe it for 15 minutes or so, many client restarts with different settings, was trying to determine whats the reason
16:04 RealBadAngel   now its completely gone
16:04 Fixer          your videocard has clock frequency autochange support?
16:05 Fixer          RealBadAngel, https://i.imgur.com/OdTgVnF.png
16:06 Fixer          RealBadAngel, three minetest runs
16:06 RealBadAngel   idk
16:06 RealBadAngel   havent played with gpu settings
16:06 Fixer          RealBadAngel, sometimes GPU/MEM clocks drop from 1000 to 750 or even 150, for very short time, few times, not sure if it is the cause
16:08 Fixer          RealBadAngel, try walking on this test world -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/files/101456/Just.Test.zip
16:08 RealBadAngel   if you can observe stuttering check the clocks then
16:08 RealBadAngel   if thats related
16:25 Fixer          RealBadAngel, looks like it is not related
16:28 Fixer          hold on
16:28 RealBadAngel   can anybody tell what version of irrlicht travis is using?
16:28 RealBadAngel   error: ‘EGDS_BUTTON_PRESSED_IMAGE_OFFSET_Y’ is not a member of ‘irr::gui’
16:29 Fixer          RealBadAngel, on heavy world, it can stutter when clocks go down to 150MHz for some reason, but there are stutters at FULL clock
16:29 Fixer          hmmm
16:29 RealBadAngel   https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/builds/108787153
16:29 RealBadAngel   Fixer, so thats not related
16:30 Fixer          RealBadAngel, hold on
16:30 Fixer          RealBadAngel, it is partially related
16:30 Fixer          RealBadAngel, if stutter is really deep it is clocks going to min for 1 sec or so
16:31 RealBadAngel   Fixer, so related or not?
16:32 Fixer          RealBadAngel, only for some deep stutters, it is partially related, some stutters are caused by frequencies some are not
16:36 Fixer          RealBadAngel, pff, why on earth it lower the frequencies when i load heavy MT scene with 30 fps :(
16:37 RealBadAngel   theres some auto tune code in mt
16:38 RealBadAngel   i wonder if it doesnt work the opposite as it should
16:38 RealBadAngel   first of all, why the hell camera far plane is not set when lowering view range?
16:39 RealBadAngel   and why fog doesnt match view range
16:54 Fixer          RealBadAngel, clock powersaving can cause some stutters, but not a whole lot to account for everything (most of the time MEM clock is at 75% (lol), GPU is at 100%)
16:55 Fixer          RealBadAngel, also, some time clocks going down does not cause stutter at all
16:55 Fixer          RealBadAngel, lots of time actually
16:55 Fixer          RealBadAngel, so it is not powersaving problem only, other sources are at work
17:24 RealBadAngel   Fixer, have you tested 3695?
17:27 Fixer          RealBadAngel, just walked, let me eat something, i will test deeper
17:27 RealBadAngel   sure
17:28 Fixer          RealBadAngel, why on earth drop frequencies down to 15% level for very short time in heavy minetest scene? feels like source of the problem is MT, that reduces (?) gpu load for very short time, causing frequinces down and big stutter after
17:29 Fixer          and frequiences back to normal
17:29 Fixer          maximum 1 sec for this all
17:29 RealBadAngel   it may be this auto tune code
17:31 RealBadAngel   from quick look it works that way: if it takes too long, lets lower wanted fps
17:31 RealBadAngel   then gpu thinks theres less to do, lower clocks
17:31 RealBadAngel   then mt again lowers wanted fps
17:32 RealBadAngel   until it chockes itself and gpu is sitting idle laughing
17:32 RealBadAngel   pretty funny
17:33 RealBadAngel   also i like the code for trying to be smarter than hardware
17:33 RealBadAngel   far clipping plane is actually disabled no matter what
17:34 RealBadAngel   the code that sets it looks like it could set an actual value
17:34 RealBadAngel   if far plane could be further than 20000
17:35 RealBadAngel   total absurd
17:35 RealBadAngel   so, no matter what far is always 2000
17:35 RealBadAngel   20k i mean
17:45 RealBadAngel   Fixer, i will make a patch with manual only view range control so you can test it
18:15 RealBadAngel   Fixer, wanna test it?
18:19 RealBadAngel   im playing with it right now, it looks like it allows me to set viewing distance at which framerate wont drop below 60fps no matter whats visible
18:20 RealBadAngel   like shitload of trees with snow nodeboxes on them
18:22 Fixer          RealBadAngel, yes
18:22 Fixer          RealBadAngel, i need .diff
18:23 RealBadAngel   it will be easier, open camera.cpp please
18:23 Fixer          done
18:24 RealBadAngel   find void Camera::updateViewingRange(f32 frametime_in, f32 busytime_in) should be line 484
18:24 RealBadAngel   and paste this at the start of the function
18:24 Fixer          yes
18:24 RealBadAngel   http://pastebin.com/sCedr3Jr
18:27 Fixer          RealBadAngel, like this? http://pastebin.com/raw/agDEK9YB
18:28 RealBadAngel   yeah
18:35 RealBadAngel   Fixer, and?
18:37 Fixer          RealBadAngel, compiling
18:37 Fixer          RealBadAngel, not so fast
18:37 Fixer          RealBadAngel, at 20%
18:38 RealBadAngel   i thought you have i3?
18:38 Fixer          RealBadAngel, 3695 fixed mesh lag issue for me, will test performance later
18:38 Fixer          RealBadAngel, i compile in Debian VM
18:39 Fixer          RealBadAngel, cross compilation for windows from VM with debian*
18:39 Fixer          RealBadAngel, it is 2x slower
18:39 RealBadAngel   aw lol
18:39 Fixer          it is much easier
18:42 RealBadAngel   no doubts, compilin on windows is pain in the ass
18:43 Fixer          i've compiled on it some years ago, on xp, with celeron script
18:43 Fixer          on msvc
18:50 RealBadAngel   i have a feeling that game runs much smoother with this patch
18:50 Fixer          100%
18:50 Fixer          i mean compiled just now
18:51 Fixer          15 min %)
18:52 RealBadAngel   with distance ~100 i can see fixed 60fps
18:52 RealBadAngel   no fuckin matter what
18:53 Fixer          starting, shaders enabled
18:54 Fixer          walking, will start monitoring program
18:54 Fixer          it feels smooth on just test, walking more
18:56 Fixer          RealBadAngel, woah
18:58 Fixer          RealBadAngel, i see fog fluctuation
19:00 RealBadAngel   fog would need to be fixed, so clouds
19:01 Fixer          RealBadAngel, it feels smoother, let my try next server
19:06 Fixer          hmm
19:07 Fixer          RealBadAngel, very interesting, looking linuxgaming now
19:07 Fixer          RealBadAngel, much less stutters for me, strangely, more smooth
19:10 Fixer          RealBadAngel, linuxgaming seems slow, not all blocks are loaded, but smoothness is amazing when there are no activity
19:10 Fixer          super flat
19:16 Fixer          RealBadAngel, LinuxGaming looks smoother, few deep stutters, also, when packets arrieve, draw curve becames somewhat unsettled
19:16 Fixer          RealBadAngel, but when no net activity, walking in loaded chunks are very good
19:27 RealBadAngel   fixer, so, overall how it feels?
19:27 sofar          what did you add RBA?
19:27 RealBadAngel   rather what ive trashed ;)
19:28 Fixer          RealBadAngel, smoother, but in singleplayer stutters are present, but when no activity it is goood
19:28 Fixer          RealBadAngel, doing more testsw
19:28 RealBadAngel   sofar, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-02-12#i_4531932
19:29 Fixer          RealBadAngel, wait, do i need to specify _max range?
19:29 RealBadAngel   use +-
19:31 Fixer          RealBadAngel, hmm, removed back max range and now it feels much better, not sure why
19:31 RealBadAngel   ive set i menu also wanted fps = 60, min 60
19:31 RealBadAngel   im not sure if it counts at all
19:32 Fixer          RealBadAngel, singleplayer looks seriously better
19:34 Fixer          RealBadAngel, feels really smooth and good most of the time, hmm
19:35 Fixer          RealBadAngel, i will do automated tests, need 20 min or so
19:36 RealBadAngel   when you start game with creating server instead of famous singleplayer, it works indeed better
19:36 Fixer          RealBadAngel, i start singleplayer as always
19:38 RealBadAngel   btw, when you now set a viewing distance, its a real one
19:39 RealBadAngel   no fancy gimmicks with drawing blocks or not, its a circle around you
19:40 RealBadAngel   thats why fog doesnt fit
19:41 Amaz           RealBadAngel, with the latest git I'm sometimes getting problems with node highlighting. The box sometimes, seemingly randomly, turns opaque for a random period of time... https://i.imgur.com/SUleY1t.png
19:41 RealBadAngel   before it was drawn on things theoretically on things outside viewing range
19:41 RealBadAngel   Amaz, i know about it, havent found the reason for it yet
19:42 Amaz           Ah, okay
19:42 Amaz           Thanks!
19:42 Fixer          doing some test, need 20 min
19:42 RealBadAngel   ok
20:21 Fixer          RealBadAngel, tested in no mapgen environment, some liquid flows were possible on a test, here my results
20:21 Fixer          RealBadAngel, https://i.imgur.com/194Yxxp.png
20:22 Fixer          RealBadAngel, in general, with your changes you get little performance boost, but stutters are the same
20:23 Fixer          RealBadAngel, as you can see both curves on graph #3 became one somewhere near stutter zone (which is at the end - highest spikes)
20:23 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault
20:24 * Fixer        >_> ShadowBot
21:41 Fixer          RealBadAngel, this one with mapgen v6 test: https://i.imgur.com/zGKTue0.png
21:42 Fixer          RealBadAngel, very slight fps boost, but stutters are the same, so it is not fixing the stutters unfortunately
23:55 RealBadAngel   Fixer, pity :( im quite suprised because it really does feel smoother