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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-10-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 est31 #3230
00:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3230 -- Better gettext support for protocol version mismatch messages by est31
00:33 paramat papyrus/biome tweak merging soon game#696
00:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/696 -- Papyrus: Grow on dirt and grass only, remove from desert ocean by paramat
00:45 paramat now merging game 695 and 696
00:50 paramat complete
01:02 paramat now merging #3223
01:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3223 -- Mgv5: getGroundLevelAtPoint searches a larger range by paramat
01:06 paramat complete
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02:16 paramat http://i.imgur.com/yX6BaLQ.png hybrid dungeon
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02:18 VanessaE looks like a geometry argument is mandatory now:
02:18 VanessaE GD Warning: product of memory allocation multiplication would exceed INT_MAX, failing operation gracefully
02:18 VanessaE bash: line 1: 25953 Segmentation fault      ./minetestmapper --drawscale --drawalpha -i $worldpath"/"$worldname"/" -o $imagepath"/"$worldname".png"
02:19 VanessaE (without a geometry arg to limit the size, I guess it does the whole world now, and throws that ^^^ error)
02:24 VanessaE (also, I'm pretty sure a segfault is rather opposite of "graceful" :P )
02:33 kahrl rather graceful if you ask me. I mean, it doesn't rewrite random mapblocks in the database and corrupt them
02:34 VanessaE maybe. heh
02:34 VanessaE still pretty sure a crash is unwanted ;)
02:36 kahrl probably just a missing return value check somewhere
02:38 VanessaE a feature that I think would be useful is if the mapper tool could slice the output image into several smaller pieces
02:38 VanessaE (say max 4096x4096 or so)
02:39 kahrl https://github.com/minetest/minetestmap​per/blob/master/TileGenerator.cpp#L349
02:39 kahrl this is where a NULL check is missing, I think
03:14 VanessaE est31:  leaftest needs a tweak -- geometry arg for minetestmapper takes X:Y+W+H but you have X,Y+W+H (comma instead of colon).
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07:33 hmmmm wow, caverealms is a pretty cool mod
07:34 hmmmm i haven't been able to reproduce that crash yet, however
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07:41 hmmmm unfortunately the slowness of block loading among other things breaks player immersion and ruins something that otherwise would be very neat
07:42 nrzkt you are right
07:43 nrzkt this is a pain to wait for map loading many times... :(
07:43 hmmmm specifically with map generating mods
07:43 hmmmm i have an idea though it's a lot of effort
07:44 nrzkt why not having a lock per mapblock ? EmergeThread commit directly to map with a lock on the mapblock memory area itself instead of the whole map
07:44 hmmmm there are a lot of mapblocks dude
07:44 nrzkt yes, but an intelligent locking system, allocate locks at mapblock first creation
07:44 hmmmm if the platform in question does not implement pthread_mutex_* as a futex then that would wreak havoc on the OS
07:45 nrzkt futex ?
07:45 hmmmm user-mode mutex
07:45 nrzkt i see :)
07:46 hmmmm freebsd and linux do this with pthread_mutex_ functions, and Windows does if you use "critical sections"
07:46 hmmmm in other words, on windows, CreateMutex() et al.  are NOT user mode mutexes
07:46 hmmmm you need to be careful there
07:46 hmmmm in any case, an idea I would be more open to is maybe a "locking region" or some shit
07:47 hmmmm which might be defined as a 4x4x4 cluster of mapblocks...?
07:47 hmmmm shrug
07:47 hmmmm even if you do this, there's still an enormous amount of work
07:48 nrzkt 8x8x8 ? :)
07:48 hmmmm small steps first
07:48 hmmmm break up envlock into maplock, playerlock, objectlock, etc.
07:49 hmmmm then when we get that working really well, then we'll look into breaking up maplock
07:52 nrzkt i do it in a separate branch
07:52 nrzkt i have map_lock and SAO_lock
07:52 nrzkt i did*
08:00 nrzkt technically this separation is not a problem
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08:19 Megaf Hi all, little help please, So, I updated my server today and now this happens
08:19 Megaf https://paste.debian.net/plain/314451
08:20 Megaf I'm afraid it had overwriten my world =/
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08:22 Megaf Ok, it might not be a minetest fault
08:26 Megaf ok, nevermind, I think is not minetest fault this time, game on
08:31 nrzkt it's you
08:32 nrzkt +x missing
08:32 Megaf Thanks
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17:05 est31 I dont like locks as they might allow for deadlock
17:05 est31 e.g. what if you have a mod that has a mob that modifies the map
17:06 est31 e.g. on its on_step, it automatically farms
17:06 est31 so you aquire the map lock while holding the object lock
17:06 est31 now what if sth else has the map lock and wants to spawn an object?
17:07 est31 e.g. you place a windmill block, and it has a rotating part
17:07 est31 which is an object
17:07 est31 --> deadlock
17:07 est31 better is an event system, asynchronous
17:08 est31 we could introduce the rule that you can't aquire more than one lock
17:08 est31 then the modders would have to use event util functions we provide for them to avoid that situation
17:09 est31 This would be a hybrid approach
17:10 hmmmm lol
17:12 hmmmm that's pretty silly.  this is a non-problem.  a deadlock is a bug you encounter from using locks in the wrong manner.
17:12 nrzkt2 agree with hmmmm
17:15 hmmmm although I agree it's going to be tough to interface this properly with mods
17:15 hmmmm modders are generally incompetent and they don't actually understand what it is they're coding
17:15 hmmmm you get a handful who actually know what's going on and they write their own mods, and then everybody else copies and pastes from the working mods
17:16 hmmmm but they introduce subtle differences and bugs that didn't exist in the original version
17:16 est31 I dont want to get deadlocks regardless of what modders code
17:16 hmmmm I'm floating around the idea of letting mods control envlock in a limited manner
17:16 est31 part of the "manner in which we use locks" isnt influenced by us
17:17 hmmmm maybe mods will only have access to envlock
17:17 hmmmm and then when envlock gets split up, envlock will become multiple locks underneath but still appear as one single lock to the mod interface
17:17 hmmmm this helps keep things simple
17:18 est31 ermmm
17:18 est31 so what does splitting up envlock use then?
17:18 hmmmm there's a lot more engine code than there is mod code
17:18 est31 i mean you cant run a mobs mod parrallel to a mod that affects nodes only then
17:19 est31 well, okay, that would be a good first step
17:20 est31 engine side only split up
17:22 est31 hmmmm, is it a bad goal to not allow modders to introduce deadlocks? you agree to it?
17:22 est31 and nrzkt2
17:23 hmmmm I agree that it needs to be made safe
17:23 hmmmm that's the number one reason why nothing has been done with regards to locks
17:24 est31 argh #3231
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3231 -- Server Error: A fatal error occurred: Invalid position (expected table got nil).
17:24 hmmmm i've been persuaded by VanessaE to give modders a chance however
17:24 hmmmm maybe they will be able to 'rise to the challenge' of synchronization
17:25 est31 yet another somebody who has encountered a crash, and submits it without any info
17:25 hmmmm I mean it may have took a while but it seems they're able to use LuaVoxelManip without problems now
17:26 est31 still bad it does no range checking
17:27 est31 easily exploitable
17:27 est31 hrmm, perhaps I try precisely that later on...
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20:27 eugd i'm going to ask it again; mapblock->octree?
20:27 Krock PLease code it for us.
20:27 eugd ha, ok
20:28 eugd just trying to brainstorm stuff
20:28 eugd as far as i can reckon it wouldn't suffer transversal problem
20:32 eugd is everyone in agreement with paramat regarding #3199>
20:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3199 -- split map_generation_limit into x/y/z components by EUGD
20:32 eugd just change the name?
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21:51 paramat sfan5 ShadowNinja any comments to add on https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/480#issuecomment-145301062 ?
21:56 paramat hmmmm sometime can you add comments to #3199? my opinion is here https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/3199#issuecomment-144213976
21:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3199 -- split map_generation_limit into x/y/z components by EUGD
21:59 paramat btw AFAICR caverealms is slow due to placing lots of schematics (each with a separate lighting update)
22:09 hmmmm you mean it doesn't register the schematics to be placed on map generation?
22:10 paramat it might use 'place schematic' ... i might have misremembered
22:10 hmmmm what the hell... why
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22:11 paramat the biome api can't place schematic decorations in some situations
22:11 paramat so i see modders using 'place schematic' during lua mapgen
22:11 paramat we need a way to blit a schematic into the lvm
22:12 hmmmm well why don't they say something about it instead of using an extremely inefficient function as a workaround
22:12 est31 eugd, I like ShadowNinja's idea as well
22:12 eugd i'm looking at the code now
22:12 paramat i should check caverealms code ..
22:13 eugd but i still really don't like it, for the reasons i said in the comment page
22:13 est31 what was it again
22:13 ShadowNinja Hmmm?
22:13 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/3199#issuecomment-143392234
22:14 paramat eugd it's okay if you don't want to make the PR, someone else can
22:14 eugd can actually do it in one, i think
22:14 ShadowNinja Ah, thanks.
22:14 eugd no i'm working on it now, i just increasingly dislike it overall
22:14 eugd really should be part of map structure
22:15 eugd piling hacks on top of hacks
22:15 kahrl I agree that it should be map metadata
22:16 paramat hmmmmm i was wrong about caverealms, no heavy use of schems
22:16 ShadowNinja kahrl: Good point, you'll have issues with multiple worlds other wise.
22:17 est31 yea kahrl is right
22:18 paramat oh per world ..
22:18 est31 better having it be map metadata
22:18 est31 but that has nothing to do with having it as setting
22:24 paramat agreed, if we have map gen limit at all it should be per-world
22:25 est31 well we do need one
22:25 est31 as our addresses are limited :)
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23:43 eugd this settings code is, bad.
23:43 eugd like half of it is unused
23:43 eugd i'm trying to sus out the 'standard' for doing this but there isn't really one
23:56 est31 okay, what about not doing it?
23:56 est31 and waiting until it becomes a param for the map?

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