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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-30

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Time Nick Message
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00:52 est31 hmmmm, this might interest you https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&t=13126
00:54 VanessaE I think I chased him off :P
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04:52 hmmmm ugh
04:52 hmmmm i'll have to add a comment for -bound % bound
04:52 hmmmm I guess it's really non-obvious
04:53 est31 you should also make the comment match the actual code
04:53 hmmmm with regard to the documentation being inaccurate - that's correct, the variance is not 1.  i don't know why I wrote that
04:53 hmmmm I correctly have the variance in the unit test :p
04:54 est31 :D
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06:55 celeron55 <+est31> celeron55, did you know that rubenwardy has added a patch to customize the map limit?
06:55 celeron55 yes, i am yet to test it for my purposes
06:58 est31 and about "keeping all blocks loaded", like in an RTS setting, the method that unloads blocks could be made customizeable with lua
07:00 est31 hrmm, the function inside register_on_placenode seems to not work for tree trunks
07:12 est31 seems to be an mtgame bug
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08:09 est31 btw celeron55 what is your "purpose"? an RTS?
08:10 celeron55 stop talking about RTS
08:10 celeron55 that's ridiculous
08:10 celeron55 my purpose for a fixed-size all-active world is a base defence game of sorts
08:17 est31 okay
08:18 est31 about the website
08:18 est31 the poll has ended, and the result was that the public favours Calinou's entry
08:28 est31 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=12843
08:29 est31 The next step would be that the core devs decide which submission to take
08:29 est31 I have tried multiple times to start discussions, but never succeeded
08:29 celeron55 why wasn't the old site in the poll?
08:29 celeron55 this poll is flawed
08:29 est31 do you want to repeat it?
08:30 est31 with the old site added?
08:31 celeron55 oh whatever, i'll just take calinou's site into use and see what people think
08:31 celeron55 this isn't a big deal at all
08:32 est31 agreed
08:39 celeron55 www.minetest.net is now set to be a cname to minetest.github.io and the repo is at https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io
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08:41 celeron55 and the core team now has access to it
08:42 celeron55 uh oh, it broke
08:43 est31 also perhaps people like rubenwardy or Calinou should get access too, they had it before, and they are trusted
08:43 celeron55 i wonder why this isn't working
08:44 kahrl_ perhaps it's a virtual host and github checks the Host: header?
08:45 est31 https://help.github.com/articles/add​ing-a-cname-file-to-your-repository/
08:49 celeron55 hmm well this makes sense
08:51 celeron55 now it works
08:53 celeron55 i made a new team "Minetest Website Team" and invited Calinou and rubenwardy to it
08:53 celeron55 maybe this is sufficient for now
08:55 kahrl_ I'm not sure about the mention of "Hunger Games"
08:55 kahrl_ it's a registered trademark in the US and probably elsewhere
08:57 kahrl_ http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfi​eld?f=doc&amp;state=4808:zia5gm.2.38  "Goods and services: ... providing online computer games"
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08:58 celeron55 yes, using it as a server or game name isn't fair use
08:59 celeron55 (saying that minetest is inspired by minecraft kind of is, altough that might be a bit grey too)
08:59 kilbith the D/L link/page needs updating on the new website
09:00 kilbith Calinou ^
09:02 Calinou ok, I'll try updating it
09:06 sfan5 Calinou: your new site breaks http://minetest.net/servers
09:06 sfan5 any reason why we don't have that?
09:08 Calinou well, it was never implemented to be frank; I'd personally suggest having better/responsive styling for http://servers.minetest.net and point people to there
09:08 Calinou we can make a redirection of http://minetest.net/servers/index.html to http://servers.minetest.net
09:09 sfan5 minetest.net/servers is a little different from servers.minetest.net
09:09 sfan5 it also had additional information
09:09 sfan5 not just the list
09:12 Calinou we can tweak servers.minetest.net to have that information then?
09:12 sfan5 why not just add a servers.html
09:13 Calinou how do we integrate the server list in it? iframe sucks :)
09:14 sfan5 the old servers page did not work with iframes
09:14 sfan5 s/work with/use/
09:15 sfan5 Calinou: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca​che:minetest.net/servers&amp;strip=0&amp;vwsrc=1
09:16 sfan5 also what about the piwik tracking we had?
09:16 sfan5 does the new site have it?
09:16 Calinou nope
09:16 Calinou you can put the tracking code in _includes/footer.html, it'll work
09:17 sfan5 the code should be in <head>
09:18 Calinou no, it should be at the bottom of <body>
09:18 Calinou it's more efficient that way
09:19 sfan5 piwik says otherwise
09:19 Calinou what's their rationale for that?
09:20 sfan5 ah wait
09:20 sfan5 actually they say it should be just after <body>
09:20 sfan5 (at the beginning of the body)
09:21 sfan5 http://developer.piwik.org/gui​des/tracking-javascript-guide
09:30 Calinou I might implement a lightbox for the gallery
09:30 Calinou http://sachinchoolur.github.io/lightGallery/
09:30 Calinou this one seems good
09:30 Calinou (we have jQuery already)
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10:05 rubenwardy Calinou, good to merge? https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest.github.io​/commit/a28b5d9043fbc2b08b668c323072c07b30ac9572
10:07 rubenwardy also, celeron55, please use minetest.net not www.minetest.net :P
10:07 VanessaE rubenwardy: put a picture of an unknown node on the page :)
10:07 rubenwardy good idea
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10:27 rubenwardy http://pasteboard.co/gnBwynv.png
10:28 rubenwardy Pushing in 5 https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest.github.io​/commit/d5879d33454a4f62427b6782fafb6d5bb621f096 :P
10:28 VanessaE perfect :)
10:30 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/657
10:31 VanessaE Calinou: bear in mind plantlife's lilypads also
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10:32 kilbith VE's mods are the center of the universe...
10:32 VanessaE kilbith: um, no...  ironzorg came up with these long before you (or I) ever found minetest.
10:33 kilbith you're referring to the textures, right ?
10:33 VanessaE no.
10:33 kilbith so what's your point ?
10:33 Calinou Carbone had lilypads too :)
10:33 VanessaE I was referring to the *existence* of them and how these compare with the ones in plantlife.
10:34 kilbith what do you suggest exactly ?
10:35 VanessaE aw shit.  celeron55: "minetest.net/forum" links don't work anymore
10:36 Calinou I could create a page forum.html that redirects to forum.minetest.net
10:36 Calinou but how do we handle existing links?
10:36 Calinou same for servers.html -> servers.minetest.net
10:36 Calinou (if someone tries to access minetest.net/servers, without .html, it works too)
10:38 rubenwardy Grr, 2 space indents :(
10:38 rubenwardy atom doesn't like it
10:39 Calinou uh, why not?
10:39 Calinou that's what I use
10:39 Calinou it's actually the default in Atom
10:39 rubenwardy omg
10:39 Calinou be sure to install "indentation-indicator" and "detect indentation" packages
10:39 Calinou those are very helpful
10:39 rubenwardy you did <br /></li>
10:39 Calinou that's not me, I guess
10:40 Calinou there is stray DokuWiki code left in some pages
10:40 Calinou I removed some of it this morning
10:40 VanessaE well I Was gonna reference the screenshot from plantlife, but after finding it, it's old anyway.  Calinou:  waterlilies there have several variants - four that are identical but at different rotations which, combined with param2, allow rotating them at 22.5 degree increments.  The others are just variations of smaller lilypads i.e. 2 or 3 together
10:40 kilbith the code in that PR is way more efficient ;)
10:40 kilbith PTAL
10:41 rubenwardy I'm going through and switching to _layouts, please don't do anything big for a while
10:41 rubenwardy maybe ~30minutes
10:41 Calinou yeah, please improve the Jekyll usage
10:41 Calinou it is pretty poor right now
10:41 rubenwardy Jekyll is awesome
10:41 VanessaE and the base node is called flowers:waterlily
10:41 kilbith lilypad, waterlily...
10:41 kilbith it's the same thing
10:41 Calinou rubenwardy, also, don't you think my pages are overindented? other than includes
10:41 Calinou I kept the indentation to make it consistent, but I think it's a bad idea
10:42 Calinou I think I should reset to no indentation every page
10:42 rubenwardy what do you mean?
10:42 Calinou right now, pages like index.html use lots of indentation
10:42 Calinou the indentation level is "inherited" from the header include
10:43 Calinou but it doesn't make sense really, so it should probably be removed
10:43 VanessaE kilbith: again, ironzorg established this long before you or I ever showed up.  I just made their spawning behavior better.  Don't use a different node name if there's no reason to.
10:44 kilbith i'm the 1st one to use this method for generating them
10:44 kilbith you have not looked at the code apparently
10:44 VanessaE I have.
10:44 VanessaE I don't care about the code right now.
10:44 VanessaE I care about the NODE NAME.
10:45 rubenwardy Why didn't you use scss?
10:45 kilbith i still don't get your point
10:45 rubenwardy Jekyll supports it in core
10:45 kilbith what do you want exactly ?
10:45 VanessaE *headdesk*
10:47 kilbith i'm getting sick of those ppl opening their mouths for the sake of it
10:47 VanessaE and I'm getting G*d damned sick and tired of you jumping on me every time I say anything at all
10:48 kilbith your problem, commenting on everything with a low-relevance
10:48 kilbith seem like you have no real life
10:49 VanessaE Calinou: in any case, you should change the node name and consider adding one or two of the other types of waterlilies from flowers_plus.  Fewer aliases and less for me to maintain then. :)
10:56 VanessaE "no real life"... says the guy who still lives with his mom and won't get a job because it violates his sense of freedom
10:56 kilbith you realizes i could sue you for violating my private life in public ?
10:57 VanessaE good luck with that.
10:57 VanessaE I could just as easily sue you for harassment.  neither of us would win.
10:57 nrzkt psst: VanessaE, kilbith, minetest-dev don't care about your current discussion
10:58 kilbith also who said you can't have a RL in living with your mom and no job ?
10:58 kilbith you're so pathetic...
10:58 VanessaE nrzkt: then kindly instruct him to cease the personal attacks
10:58 nrzkt everybody should
10:59 kilbith unlike you, i don't reveal the details of your private life for humiliating you
11:04 rubenwardy Calinou: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest.github.io​/commit/74209a910a1bbe56b4497e640fdcf21224ccba43
11:05 Calinou inline styles :s
11:05 Calinou (I can fix it later)
11:05 rubenwardy better than using attribute styles
11:05 rubenwardy I don't want to modify the CSS, as I cba to recompile
11:05 rubenwardy Why do you use .styl?
11:06 Calinou it's a CSS preprocessor
11:06 Calinou http://learnboost.github.io/stylus/
11:06 Calinou it's not as popular as Sass (http://sass-lang.com/) but I prefer it for various reasons
11:06 Calinou including its more permissive syntax (indent-based)
11:07 rubenwardy sass is bunded with jekyll, though
11:07 Calinou npm install -g stylus
11:07 Calinou pretty easy to get Stylus going, as it's written in JavaScript :)
11:08 Calinou both Sass and Stylus are about as featureful overall
11:08 rubenwardy but as it's bundled with Jekyll, you don't need to compile it on your computer, it's done at the same time as generating the site
11:08 rubenwardy http://jekyllrb.com/docs/assets/
11:08 Calinou hmm, I wasn't aware of that
11:09 Calinou some configuration will be needed in Jekyll
11:09 Calinou I plan to make the directory structure cleaner
11:09 Calinou move from css/ and js/ to assets/css/ and assets/js/, for instance
11:10 rubenwardy https://github.com/jekyll/jekyll-s​ass-converter/tree/master/example
11:10 Calinou I also plan to switch to Gulp in the future...
11:10 Calinou more people seem to favour it
11:10 Calinou but it's harder to grasp and the documentation isn't as good as Grunt's
11:11 rubenwardy May I push 74209a910a1bbe56b4497e640fdcf21224ccba43 ?
11:11 Calinou does it render properly locally?
11:11 Calinou if so, yes
11:12 Calinou thanks for making a 404 page too
11:13 rubenwardy np
11:14 rubenwardy would it be possible to move all the favicons out of root?
11:15 Calinou it's possible but not recommended
11:15 rubenwardy ok
11:15 Calinou browsers are stupid when it comes to favicons, and the only way to have a nicely working responsive favicon is to have all that clutter in site root :(
11:16 Calinou I used http://realfavicongenerator.net/
11:16 Calinou http://realfavicongenerator.net/f​avicon_checker?site=minetest.net
11:16 VanessaE Calinou: "responsive" favicon?
11:16 Calinou VanessaE, favicon suitable for mobile devices, Windows 8 start screen, high-resolution devices and such
11:17 VanessaE didn't realize the standard had changed in that regard.
11:17 Calinou I wish support of SVG favicons was universal... that way, we could have one nice favicon everywhere
11:17 Calinou http://caniuse.com/#feat=link-icon-svg
11:25 VanessaE *checks wiki article also*  wow.  bit different from the 16-32px/.ico "standard" I got used to :P
11:25 rubenwardy Pushing soon: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest.github.io​/commit/cb6f429453b41bc4c6df3a393e0f5b7e6f54f51a
11:26 Calinou thanks
11:28 rubenwardy okay, I'm done :P
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11:54 celeron55 http://doku.minetest.net/ now goes to the previous site
11:55 celeron55 < rubenwardy> also, celeron55, please use minetest.net not www.minetest.net
11:55 celeron55 using minetest.net is a very bad idea
11:55 celeron55 you can't for example use cnames
11:55 Calinou let's rename forum.minetest.net to bbs.minetest.net
11:55 Calinou :)
11:56 rubenwardy are you sure, celeron55?
11:56 nrzkt rubenwardy yes.
11:56 rubenwardy I have rubenwardy.com at github.io, and vps.rubenwardy.com at my vps
11:56 nrzkt CNAME are not allowed on @ records.
11:56 nrzkt it's the DNS RFC
11:57 rubenwardy How did I do it then?
11:57 celeron55 should we put calinou's site under, say, get.minetest.net and redirect www.minetest.net by default to it, and leave the forum redirects on www.minetest.net/forum working?
11:57 celeron55 i mean, there are options here
11:57 nrzkt yes, but www.minetest.net should use a reverse proxy mode
11:58 celeron55 reverse proxy from my vps to github sites? sounds weird and it would also add latency
11:58 nrzkt www.minetest.net location / { proxy_pass http://minetest.github.io; }; location /forum { FORUM };
11:58 celeron55 it would work though
11:58 nrzkt reverse proxiing is low latency and the only option if you use directories
11:59 rubenwardy Ah, I use A Hosts
11:59 rubenwardy Why do you need CNAMEs?
12:00 nrzkt because minetest.github.io IP can change it's not you the provider, then stop use bad practices :)
12:00 rubenwardy github.io says to use A names
12:01 celeron55 ping from everything.8dromda.net to minetest.github.io is min/avg/max/std-dev = 5.070/40.187/375.863/90.175 ms; that's not very low latency i think
12:01 celeron55 everything.8dromeda.net*
12:01 rubenwardy well, it says you can
12:02 nrzkt is this a static website or a huge high financial trading low latency site ?
12:02 celeron55 i guess i'll do a reverse proxy then
12:02 rubenwardy https://help.github.com/articles/tips-for-con​figuring-an-a-record-with-your-dns-provider/
12:04 rubenwardy www. makes me cringe :(
12:06 celeron55 almost all websites use www; there are reasons for it
12:08 rubenwardy all the biggest ones don't
12:10 celeron55 yeah like google.com, reddit.com, facebook.com, mozilla.com
12:10 celeron55 and all the other ones that will redirect to www while you aren't noticing
12:10 rubenwardy http://no-www.org/
12:11 celeron55 not using the www subdomain only makes sense if the only thing you are hosting at a domain is a website
12:11 celeron55 but minetest.net has a whole lot of all kinds of stuff under it
12:12 rubenwardy the http:// bit says it's a website, you don't need the www.
12:13 celeron55 what if i don't update the A record when github changes their IP
12:14 celeron55 whatever, this doesn't matter; i'm not going to change it
12:15 rubenwardy no, it doesn't matter that much
12:15 celeron55 if someone is going to get mad because of "www.", feel free to
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12:29 nrzkt rubenwardy: http(s):// is a URI. www.xxx.com is a domain name. www. permit to know that there is a website under this name, every DNS name is not a website.
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12:49 kahrl_ can the menu at the top be made to work without javascript?
13:01 rubenwardy seriously, it doesn't?
13:02 rubenwardy you don't need JS, just CSS :(
13:02 rubenwardy as in, you shouldn't need JS to make a navbar
13:02 rubenwardy Calinou ^
13:02 celeron55 well it's bootstrap; what do you expect
13:03 celeron55 ideally it should work i guess, though
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14:00 Calinou rubenwardy, Bootstrap's dropdowns were made like that
14:00 Calinou moreover, dropdowns showing on click are clearly better usability
14:00 Calinou no one wants dropdowns that appear on hover in 2015
14:01 Calinou today, 1.1 % of users don't have JavaScript enabled, according to UK government
14:01 Calinou that's very little, and I believe many of them are bots that pretend to be normal users
14:02 VanessaE that's all?
14:02 VanessaE I'd have thought it would be a bit more
14:03 rubenwardy Minetest will have more JS-phobes than other websites, due to it being an open source project
14:03 nrzkt rubenwardy: source ?
14:04 nrzkt who in this channel have JS disabled in every website ?
14:04 rubenwardy RMS, the JS trap
14:04 nrzkt RMS is RMS.
14:04 nrzkt Are you using Hurd ?
14:04 nrzkt RMS uses Hurd.
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14:05 Calinou he does not
14:05 Calinou he uses an X60 that runs Trisquel
14:05 Calinou rubenwardy, all the JavaScript used on minetest.net is free btw
14:06 Calinou I don't have any proprietary dependencies
14:06 Calinou but it isn't marked for LibreJS
14:07 celeron55 i think we should make sure the site is at least somehow usable without javascript
14:07 celeron55 i mean, just add a <noscript>(a bunch of links</noscript> at the top if nothing else
14:07 celeron55 +)
14:07 rubenwardy yeah, that's the best solution
14:08 celeron55 completely ignoring non-js-browsers is kind of silly, as is making everything work without javascript
14:09 Calinou some crawlers might not support JS, but I think Google's does support it now
14:10 celeron55 http://wwwtest.minetest.net/ <- this now contains a site that reverse proxies to minetest.github.io for everything else except /forum, which it redirects as before
14:10 celeron55 if this seems the way to go, i can enable it on www.minetest.net
14:11 celeron55 it doesn't seem to be noticeably slower for me at least
14:11 celeron55 but of course github might do some CDNing and i don't so in the US it might be slower
14:15 celeron55 (RTT to US from my server seems to be about 120ms; it's not terrible but it might be noticeable)
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19:04 paramat hi nore sfan5 please can i merge game#654 ?
19:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/654 -- Default: Allow papyrus growing on sand group by paramat
19:06 sfan5 paramat: look at my comment
19:06 sfan5 the last two ones
19:07 VanessaE why not add a new node for them to grow on?  i.e. "sandy soil" or some such
19:15 T4im farming has that already btw, farming:desert_sand_soil(_wet)
19:16 VanessaE there you go :)
19:16 VanessaE only problem there is it's hoed "soil".
19:17 paramat ah okay sfan5 will check those
19:19 paramat get_node(pos) is needed because it is checking the node below the abm 'node'
19:19 paramat if 'group:sand' doesn't work i'll use specific names
19:20 paramat the base nodes need to have the 'sand' texture for the blend, we know it's wet because of it's placement at water level
19:21 VanessaE so like I said, make a new node - default:sandy_soil_wet or something, that looks like a cross between dirt (without grass) and sand
19:25 paramat well i prefer the normal sand textures for seamless blend (see screenshot), and it would be nice to be able to plant papyrus on beaches without preparation. also simplicity
19:26 paramat the lilypads PR looks nice
19:26 VanessaE did you see my comment about the node name there?
19:27 paramat no, where?
19:28 VanessaE it was part of a discussion earlier in here.
19:28 paramat oh okay will read logs
19:28 VanessaE short version:  call it flowers:waterlily
19:28 VanessaE and perhaps add some of the other features from plantlife/flowers_plus
19:28 VanessaE as long as you're adding that node.
19:28 paramat ah good idea
19:30 paramat game#655 firelike drawtype is over engineered, it often ends up a box with a cross, i think the old plantlike drawtype looked better
19:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/655 -- Simplification of fire drawtype
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19:37 kilbith i inquired about the name "waterlily", it's actually the flower
19:37 kilbith lilypad refers to the vegetal pad
19:37 kilbith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_lily
19:39 paramat flowers:waterlily is the best to use, refering to the whole
19:40 kilbith the whole is the lilypad
19:40 kilbith waterlily is only the flower
19:41 paramat ah
19:41 VanessaE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphaeaceae
19:41 VanessaE picture caption is a lilypad + flower, "Giant Water Lily sprouting a flower"
19:42 VanessaE the "pad" is just leaves from the lily.
19:42 paramat correct
19:42 VanessaE so "waterlily" is the correct name for this object.
19:43 kilbith i only see flowers on google images
19:43 kilbith both naming are correct then
19:43 paramat yeah waterlilly is best, plus the use in mt history
19:44 kilbith in some mod history
19:44 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=518
19:44 VanessaE posted sun Dec 04, 2011.
19:44 kilbith also what was the features you were referring to, VanessaE ?
19:44 VanessaE wow, look at those old tree textures :D
19:47 kilbith .. so ?
19:48 paramat wow lilies were removed from flowers
19:48 paramat nice bright grass
19:49 kilbith alright, i'm ignored
19:49 VanessaE nope, you're not ignored.
19:51 kilbith so what are the features you want for those waterlilies ?
19:51 VanessaE doesn't matter now.
19:52 kilbith O.o
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20:20 paramat nore sfan5 can i merge game#654 later once i fix those issues? with it growing on sand and desert sand
20:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/654 -- Default: Allow papyrus growing on sand group by paramat
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20:34 sofar I'm seeing this while building HEAD:
20:34 sofar git/minetest/src/voxel.cpp:581:1: warning: 'virtual const c8* irr::scene::IBoneSceneNode::getBoneName() const' is deprecated [-Wdeprecated-declarations]
20:34 sofar my irrlicht is up to date, do I need an unstable irrlicht?
20:35 kilbith arch linux, right ?
20:35 sofar yah
20:35 kilbith forget that then
20:35 sofar oh, 1.8.2 is released today
20:35 kilbith for explanations, sfan5 may be your man
20:36 sofar I'm seeing game lockups/hangs, so I thought I'd try rebuilding
20:38 kilbith i see those lockups/hangs as well
20:38 kilbith thought it was my drivers but apparently correlate by several
20:40 paramat what all those little freezes?
20:41 kilbith on this french video, the guy complains about this as well : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__vEGD2ghwA
20:41 kilbith he's on 0.4.13
20:42 kilbith those lockups can be up to ~0.5s
20:45 sofar mine are like 10s
20:51 sfan5 sofar: you can ignore those warnings, no idea about the lockups
20:52 sfan5 i use arch too and i dont get them
20:52 sfan5 I'm using clang for compiling though
20:53 VanessaE "lockups" if you want to call them that, are typically little under 1 second (everything stops and view distance drops to the minimum, briefly)
20:53 sfan5 paramat: whether it is ok or not it kinda depends on how you fix the issues
20:53 VanessaE for me that is.
20:53 sfan5 s/it //
20:54 paramat okay
20:55 VanessaE btw, is it intended behavior that the minimap should retain blocks that have otherwise been expired?
20:56 paramat sfan5 i will specify 'sand' and 'desert sand' instead of group:sand. also, 'get node pos' is needed because we are checking the node below the ABM node
20:57 paramat 'pos.y = pos.y - 1'
20:59 paramat erm minimap has issues apparently
21:00 paramat RBA intends to rewrite it apparently
21:00 VanessaE RBA isn't coding for MT anymore though.
21:00 paramat we might be able to port the improved version over
21:01 paramat or hmmmmm might fix it
21:01 VanessaE that's his intent, yeah
21:01 paramat shaders too are a bit of a mess, unfinished, unfixed
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21:14 VanessaE paramat: did you give any further thought to adding other models/shapes to mt_game ?
21:15 VanessaE (i.e. those slopes)
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21:17 paramat naw, i'm sortof neutral about it so i'll leave that up to whatever dev is enthusiastic
21:17 VanessaE ok.
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