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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-24

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02:08 Tesseract <hmmmm> Tesseract: You gonna push the threading PR?  --  Eh, not before release apparently ;-).  I just rebased it though so it should be ready to merge now if you're O.K. with that.
02:11 hmmmm yes
02:11 hmmmm please do
02:12 hmmmm SN you're never around these days
02:12 hmmmm we need to coordinate in order to push these huge refactoring PRs
02:16 * Tesseract is looking at recent connits and counting logging PR conflicts...
02:22 Tesseract Done, now just hope everything doesn't break...
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03:08 Tesseract Logging PR rebased now, lotsa conflicts.
03:25 hmmmm i have a lot of things that i want to do with logging
03:26 hmmmm one of the common problems i have is that i want to diagnose some thing, so i increase the log verbosity
03:26 hmmmm but now i have a flood of log messages that are totally irrelevant
03:27 hmmmm what if we were to divide logging messages based upon their respective components, e.g. mapgen messages, SEnv messages, Emerge messages, so on
04:20 hmmmm hey guys, are mods supposed to have totally non-conflicting media names?
04:20 hmmmm can mod A and mod B both have media with the filename foobar.png?
04:21 VanessaE yes they can
04:21 VanessaE whichever loads second overrides the first.
04:21 hmmmm ohhhh
04:21 VanessaE this is how mods are able to override minetest_game textures.
04:21 hmmmm uh oh
04:22 VanessaE that said, the convention is modname_foobar.png
04:22 VanessaE what?
04:22 hmmmm would you like it if a mod were able to override minetest's games lua files?
04:22 hmmmm minetest game's*
04:23 VanessaE actually I could see an argument for that
04:23 hmmmm is this behavior /desired/
04:23 VanessaE probably not
04:23 VanessaE not unless there's a clear way to specify that a given file overrides another
04:23 hmmmm this is going to require special media handling i think
04:24 VanessaE ordinarily, you'd just put the overrides into a mod of its own, with the same mod name as the thing being overridden.
04:25 VanessaE (e.g. a mod named "default" will override the minetest_game one, entirely)
04:27 hmmmm would you be okay with the override behavior for client side scripting?
04:27 hmmmm you'd have to name it default_hphandler.lua or something
04:27 VanessaE I'd be okay with that, though I don't expect to use that feautre myself.
04:27 hmmmm oh you're going to use it, it's too powerful to ignore
04:28 hmmmm this is going to breathe new life into minetest
04:28 VanessaE as long as the filenames are predictable and not easy to cause conflicts with other mods, anyway :)
04:28 VanessaE oh I dunno, I'm pretty lazy ;)
05:09 VanessaE bbl
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10:51 rubenwardy #3098 is a bug, not a feature request IMO
10:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3098 -- No option to tweak server side the new minimap texture
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13:31 Wayward1 Android currently fails to build, giving the error "make[2]: *** No rule to make target `jni/../jni/src/threading/Mutex.cpp', needed by `obj/local/armeabi-v7a/objs-debug/m​inetest/jni/src/threading/Mutex.o'.  Stop."
13:31 sfan5 someone forgot to update the android makefiles
13:31 sfan5 or rather
13:31 sfan5 "the android makefiles were not updated yet"
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13:35 Wayward_One Ah, I see that now
13:36 nrzkt Wayward1: i said that to ShadowNinja this morning, he merge his changed besides Jenkins builds tell this
13:37 Wayward1 hmm
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14:05 Tesseract Bug noted, I'll fix it in a minute.
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14:11 Tesseract Wayward1: Does this fix it?: http://sprunge.us/GXeN
14:11 nrzkt Tesseract, filename should be case sensitive
14:12 Tesseract nrzkt: It is, that's exactly why this issue showed up.
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15:20 Tesseract Well, I was able to build for android with that patch, so I guess so.  I had to add a MODS_TO_COPY option though.  Also, apparently the APK is case-insensitive or something, because it failed due to conflicting case.
15:23 Tesseract Does this look good to everyone?: http://sprunge.us/LREK?diff
15:25 nrzkt Tesseract: ok
15:29 Tesseract hmmmm: I think just adding thread name filtering would acomplish the type of filtering you want on a lot of cases.  A complete solution would require something like a log stream factory though.
15:29 Tesseract I'd like to get this cleanup merged before working about new features for the log system though.
15:30 Tesseract *worrying/working on
15:33 nrzkt what do you want to change for logging ?
15:33 nrzkt logging system is quite proper, it don't have many properties but it's quite proper :)
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16:20 Tesseract !tell nrzkt kwolekr was saying that he wanted to be able to filter log messages by code section so that he could turn up the log level to debug something without getting flooded with messages from other sections that he doesn't care about.
16:20 ShadowBot Tesseract: O.K.
16:21 hmmmm ShadowNinja:  The thing is, nearly everything happens inside the ServerThread so I don't see how useful that'll be
16:21 Tesseract Actually, maybe something as simple as using a macro and checking __FILE__ would work.
16:21 hmmmm yea.
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16:44 OldCoder http://minetest.org/150824.txt
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17:05 sfan5 OldCoder: nope thats not the same issue, the unittest failing should never happen too though
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17:11 OldCoder sfan5, you don't feel there's a connection?
17:11 OldCoder sfan5, if no connection, what should the user and I do next to isolate the problem for the devs?
17:12 sfan5 you don't "feel" connections, you see them; and i see none because deSerializeString and readF1000 are not the same function
17:12 sfan5 on what to do:
17:12 OldCoder Yes, but may there be the same fundamental issue? But continue
17:12 sfan5 add more debug stuff to the unittests and find out whats causing the fail to read the float correctly
17:13 OldCoder And the original problem?
17:13 OldCoder I suppose I could confirm...
17:13 sfan5 the original problem
17:13 sfan5 no idea
17:13 OldCoder he has the same issue independent of world or reduce the scope of the world if not
17:14 OldCoder We are available to assist with this issue. Note that it affects HybridDog as well.
17:14 OldCoder I will ping est31 if he stops by.
17:17 hmmmm I wouldn't worry too much about the float problem
17:18 sfan5 well
17:18 hmmmm I guess whichever CPU/compiler combination that OldCoder is using has issues
17:18 sfan5 if it deserialized to 53.533 instead of 53.534 thats not an issue
17:18 hmmmm that's what it gets deserialized to, yes
17:18 hmmmm it's always within one floating point ULP
17:19 sfan5 why don't the unittests take that into account?
17:19 hmmmm because you should get exact values
17:20 hmmmm if you don't, that's fine, but it just means your setup is slightly broken
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17:21 * OldCoder is using gcc version 4.9.2 with -O3
17:21 OldCoder arch is x86_64
17:21 OldCoder OS FWIW is Debian 8
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20:55 VanessaE nrzkt: regarding #1952 , it still can't be merged; my comment on Jan 3. is still valid as of commit 6a1047d8
20:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1952 -- Use the console instead of a dedicated window when pressing chat/command keys by ShadowNinja
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21:01 nrzkt VanessaE: it's jenkins not me which said that, on the android build, i will fix that now :)
21:01 VanessaE oh ok
21:01 VanessaE time to give that self-assuming butler a good talking-to ;)
21:02 nrzkt :)
21:02 nrzkt this is fixed :)
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21:39 est31 @ logging discussion: I had it often myself too that I've changed infostream << something to errorstream << something in order to see it and not be drowned by other content
21:40 est31 source code modifications are most straightforward IMO and experienced users can also install patches
21:41 est31 but lets try it, and perhaps some people will like it
21:42 est31 but sometimes you have to filter from log message to log message, its not enough to only have one file
21:42 est31 especially if that file is client.cpp
21:42 est31 or so
21:45 TBC_x you can always grep the output
21:48 nrzkt yes, don't do tomcat approach and keep UNIX approach, one file per daemon
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21:50 est31 grep is tedious, you quickly get to too long lists to search for, and have to fight with false positives
21:50 est31 but welcome to unix, where you have tons of options to chose from
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22:02 est31 and hmmmm to your lua script overriding question: I don't think we should ever do this for serverside mods. I'm not sure whether we should do it for clientside mods. If we do it, every mod should prefix its modname before the lua file, e.g. as in stairs_init.lua
22:03 est31 but at least we had hackability (in the positive sense) with texture packs
22:04 est31 server owners need to be aware that client side scripting shouldnt do gameplay descisions, so therefore we should allow texture packs to override those lua files.
22:05 est31 hrmm perhaps we shouldnt allow it, dunno
22:06 est31 bad idea
22:06 VanessaE actually
22:06 VanessaE overriding node defs via a custom client-side lua in a texture pack would be very nice
22:07 VanessaE (then texture packs would more properly be called "resource" packs)
22:07 Sketch2 that sounds kinda dangrous
22:07 VanessaE as long as the things that can be overridden are strictly limited to visual stuff
22:07 VanessaE e.g. drawtype, tiles, mesh=, and so on.
22:07 Sketch2 yeah
22:07 est31 mesh already has gameplay effects
22:08 est31 imagine you override a node with a very thin slab
22:08 est31 before you couldnt go through, now you can
22:08 Sketch2 colision boxes couldn't change
22:08 VanessaE collision box would still be hard-coded on the server side
22:08 VanessaE then it doesn't matter what the client does with the mesh
22:08 VanessaE worst they could do is define the mesh as empty
22:08 est31 would be an idea
22:08 VanessaE and that's no different than making a texture all transparent.
22:09 est31 yeah
22:10 T4im tiles afaik can already, can't they? at least there's a doc regarding overwrite.txt in docs/ saying as much
22:10 VanessaE some stuff can be
22:10 VanessaE you can define extra tiles
22:11 VanessaE but you can't change the drawtype or supply a new mesh
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22:18 TBC_x Lua script override is a good thing, you can for example supply a client-side library, for example replace default inventory with something touch or gamepad friendly
22:50 Tesseract !tell nrzkt Please stop your bot from posting build status on pull requests, GitHub already shows that in the merge section.
22:50 ShadowBot Tesseract: O.K.
22:51 Tesseract I've made two path-based PRs and rebased some stuff.
22:51 est31 yea, these posts are annoying
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