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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-08-11

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Time Nick Message
00:17 Sokomine joined #minetest-dev
00:19 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
00:46 hmmmm sokomine, hi
00:46 hmmmm I am trying out travelnet and I'm not sure if elevators are broken or not
00:48 VanessaE broken how?
00:49 hmmmm nevermind
00:49 hmmmm just me being dumb heh
00:49 VanessaE heh
00:50 hmmmm trying to replicate that error
00:50 VanessaE ah
00:56 VanessaE you might have better luck if you pull down the latest copy of my "Basic" world (it was just updated this morning), so that you have several networks to try it with
00:57 VanessaE ( http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/ho​bbies/minetest/worlds/Basic_World.tar.bz2 )
00:57 hmmmm you know what
00:57 hmmmm you never got this error, have you vanessae?
00:57 VanessaE which error are we fighting with again?
00:57 hmmmm error in error handling
00:57 VanessaE thought so
00:58 VanessaE *thinks*
00:58 VanessaE once, maybe, a long time ago.
00:58 VanessaE there was one unscheduled reboot yesterday... *checks log*
00:59 VanessaE hm, nope.  already fell out of the log (I REALLY should add log rotation)
01:03 hmmmm interesting
01:04 hmmmm your server is one of the largest and you use travelnet
01:04 hmmmm i never saw a single "error in error handling" backtrace from you in particular, just OOM errors
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01:13 hmmmm VanessaE, do you have a link to the "teleport" mod?
01:16 VanessaE you eman teleport request?
01:16 VanessaE mean*
01:16 hmmmm shrug
01:16 hmmmm it's called "teleport"
01:16 VanessaE um
01:16 hmmmm I just realized something... I remember amadin gave me his list of mods through PM
01:16 hmmmm just looked through it now but he didn't have travelnet
01:16 VanessaE there's a dozen different "teleporter" mods out there is the problem :-/
01:16 hmmmm but instead he had "teleport" whatever that is
01:17 hmmmm hmm
01:17 VanessaE there, added a simple log rotate to my backup script.
01:18 hmmmm agh about to give up
01:18 VanessaE ( http://pastebin.com/jD4Pqzzu in case you're curious)
01:18 hmmmm really isn't enough info here
01:18 VanessaE ( ok I'm stupid, I should egrep for moredebug :P )
01:20 VanessaE well you DID say you were gonna try to add something to at least report which mod it dies in
01:20 hmmmm yeah
01:20 hmmmm it's not totally reliable though which is what I'm scared of
01:20 VanessaE well even so, just having the mod name and the API call that died should be enough to find a pattern
01:20 hmmmm i don't have the API call either
01:20 VanessaE oh. :P
01:20 hmmmm that requires a huge overhaul of the way the lua api works
01:21 hmmmm i know the callback it died in, and hopefully the mod
01:21 hmmmm and nothing else
01:21 VanessaE still, that might be enough, given enough time collecting crash reports
01:21 hmmmm i highly doubt it
01:22 hmmmm this can't be a mod problem
01:22 hmmmm if you reproduce an error the way hybriddog mentioned it'll still show a backtrace
01:22 hmmmm because any kind of exception gets rethrown as a luaerror
01:23 Sokomine hi hmmm
01:23 hmmmm sorry sokomine, it's not travelnet
01:23 Sokomine that error in error handling seems to happen sometimes, yes
01:23 hmmmm i wonder if i could reproduce this kind of error by killing the lua instance while in a mod
01:24 hmmmm sokomine, are you saying you've seen it too?
01:25 Sokomine yes. but i don't have logs of that anymore. had to delete my debug.txt because it grew too large to be convenient
01:26 hmmmm really wish you would've reported it
01:26 hmmmm how often does it happen to you, and on what server?
01:26 hmmmm have you ever seen it in singleplayer?
01:32 Sokomine afaik in singleplayer. i'm sorry to not have more useful information. i just remember that i've seen it - without anything to reproduce it, that's not very helpful i'm afraid
01:33 Sokomine it was a while ago
01:35 Sokomine that lighting update problem with the voxelmanip (if it includes the shell) does not throw any error message at all except creating a segfault
01:37 VanessaE (offtopic: better code for that log rotate --> http://pastebin.com/DUdnJBuk )
01:39 Sokomine hmmmm: ah. found one. even from only a few hours ago. the mod contained an error; i was working on it and don't remember which error in particular it was. if it helps: http://pastebin.com/jWdfmxN4 don't know if that's what you're looking for
01:39 hmmmm no unfortunately not quite
01:39 hmmmm i'm looking for instances where the error is simply "error in error handling"
01:41 Sokomine found further error messages of that kind in the log, but all those instances seem to contain more information
01:42 VanessaE here's one I found by googling, hmmmm:  http://pastebin.com/ckWXgJ9A
01:42 VanessaE no bt though.
01:47 VanessaE also, http://pastebin.com/tUZdZDAt
01:47 VanessaE and then hybrid dog's bug.
01:47 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
01:48 hmmmm hmm the majority of these happened before my callback tracing was added
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03:47 hmmmm what is a detached inventory?
04:56 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
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05:27 Sokomine hmmmm: i.e. a bag. an inventory that is not directly "part" of the player or a node
05:28 hmmmm why is this a separate thing
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06:36 ThatGraemeGuy hmmmm: FWIW, I haven't had "error in error handling" happen again for 3 days now
06:36 ThatGraemeGuy and while I had travelnet enabled, while that error was occurring, nobody had built any travelnets yet
06:37 ThatGraemeGuy its a newish skyblock world, so far there are only 2 travelnet boxes and they were built after the error stopped occurring
06:46 hmmmm hrmm
06:46 hmmmm i did not notice you idled here
06:47 ThatGraemeGuy I'm in south africa, I tend to be chatty when most of you are asleep :)
06:50 hmmmm so correct me if i'm wrong but
06:50 hmmmm you had this error quite frequently, maybe once every 4 hours, at one point and now you don't have them any longer
07:01 ThatGraemeGuy correct
07:04 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
07:04 hmmmm odd..
07:19 ThatGraemeGuy hmmmm: at some point I added a cron job to check if the server wasn't running when it should be, restart it and email me
07:20 ThatGraemeGuy that started emailing me at 21:18 on 6 Aug, and the last one was 7 Aug at 07:50, at which point I obviously updated and recompiled then it stopped
07:21 ThatGraemeGuy in that time it emailed me 23 times, sometimes 5 times in 10 minutes and sometimes there were 2 hours between occurrences
07:21 ThatGraemeGuy I have all the console output from that period as well if you think it'd help at all
07:21 hmmmm so in other words it stopped when you recompiled
07:21 hmmmm ??
07:22 ThatGraemeGuy yes, I am currently on commit 63b12f1f048d83632069a4d0b3d2649cf9be7904, have not updated since Friday morning
07:22 ThatGraemeGuy all times UTC+2
07:22 hmmmm did you update to bcf47bc when i requested it in the github issue?
07:24 ThatGraemeGuy I was following #3011, I don't see a comment from you there
07:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- Sometimes, you get "Lua: error in error handling" messages. Is the (non-handling) error caused by the engine?
07:25 hmmmm >Try updating to the latest version
07:25 ThatGraemeGuy I nitially logged the issue in cornernote's skyblock, because I'd been having several issues there
07:26 ThatGraemeGuy oh derp I didn't know that's you :-/
07:26 ThatGraemeGuy but yes, I did update there as stated in my next comment and then I said it happened again
07:27 hmmmm ahh i missed it
07:27 hmmmm okay
07:28 hmmmm well nothing changed related to that from bcf47bc and 63b12f1
07:28 hmmmm the issue still exists
07:28 ThatGraemeGuy weird
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08:28 rubenwardy wow... https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/labels/blocker
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09:03 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/mtpm/commit​/16e5214b34f158aeeb5d0e611004daa1fa6c19af
09:04 rubenwardy oops
09:21 BlockMen For all ppl that care (or are interested in news): I will unsign from minetest_game development since i don't agree will the current development anymore. But since im not around that much currently anymore its more a sidenote :P
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09:35 rubenwardy You don't agree with biome additions etc?
09:37 BlockMen no, that is good. but something like mushroom spores are ...
10:05 BlockMen Has someone Windows 10 and tested the RC builds on it?
10:08 leat joined #minetest-dev
10:10 sfan5 i can fire up a VM
10:12 Robert_Zenz joined #minetest-dev
10:13 BlockMen sfan5, would be nice. i guess there will be at least a few user
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13:45 est31 joined #minetest-dev
13:49 est31 ok, let's adopt the old policy now, where when sb adds the blocker label, they have to explain why they think its a blocker
14:38 twoelk joined #minetest-dev
14:39 sfan5 BlockMens builds are missing MSVCP100.dll
14:39 sfan5 they do not run on a fresh windows 10 installation
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16:26 Krock I wonder if we ever had a valid release date. 0.4.13 was announced for yesterday IIRC
16:27 est31 yes it was, but some people wanted to stall it
16:27 est31 perhaps we release in two weeks, perhaps not
16:27 est31 minetest is a crashy piece of shit, it wont magically not become one in two weeks time
16:30 Krock I wouldn't agree with the sentence "crashy piece of shit"
16:31 hmmmm 2 weeks can help
16:40 tuy joined #minetest-dev
16:41 RealBadAngel its crashy, right, but afteralll its a workin piece of shit
16:41 * VanessaE peeks in
16:41 RealBadAngel and itrs our shit
16:43 VanessaE wtf is going on here?
16:43 VanessaE Blockmen wants to give up on mt_game, est31 is all pissy, ...... wtf?
16:46 RealBadAngel i dont remember blockmen contributing something
16:46 VanessaE textures
16:46 VanessaE I forget what else
16:46 RealBadAngel hes out
16:46 VanessaE and he makes MT builds also
16:47 RealBadAngel hes not anylonger active contributor
16:47 RealBadAngel thats what i mean
16:47 VanessaE oh
16:47 RealBadAngel same applies to PA
16:48 RealBadAngel watcher status is not the same as active contributor
16:48 Sokomine it's sometimes a very beautiful piece of shit :-)
16:49 RealBadAngel its lovelely piece of shit
16:49 Sokomine rba: certainly :-)
16:49 nore pushing this to _game in 5 mins: https://github.com/wischi-chr/sub0815/commi​t/ea62c801d5b880796d82f871d2ec87445355dfb9
16:51 nore sfan5, ^
16:52 sfan5 um
16:52 sfan5 shouldn't that be equal?
16:53 nore no, if they are not equal then return (and don't do anything)
16:53 nore the problem was that it was like "if (not a) == b then"...
16:53 sfan5 thats not what i mean
16:53 nore which is not what we wanter
16:53 nore s/er/ed/
16:53 sfan5 shouldn't "not a == b" be the same as "a ~= b"
16:53 est31 ok what about the following: some day the next two weeks, you do a mtgame 0.4.13 release label
16:54 est31 after it we release the engine
16:54 nore as explained in the issue : not takes precedence over ==
16:54 est31 its better done by an mtgame dev, not me
16:54 sfan5 wat
16:54 est31 otherwise people say i rush things.
16:54 sfan5 that makes no sense
16:54 nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/609#issuecomment-128136799
16:54 sfan5 anyway, ok with me
16:54 nore est31: seems fine
16:55 est31 :)
16:55 nore sfan5: yes, it is very strange
16:56 sfan5 nore: if this is the case then there might be a lot of code that's wrong
16:56 nore yeah, I'll look at that later, brb
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17:01 paramat joined #minetest-dev
17:04 paramat hi nore sfan5 please sometime could you add your opinions to game#560 game#611 game#581 if you haven't already
17:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/560 -- The need for a new grass texture
17:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring
17:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/581 -- New stairs and slabs discussion
17:04 VanessaE paramat: did you come up with a better trunk top?
17:04 VanessaE (I liked mine :<  )
17:04 VanessaE oh looks like you didn't yet.
17:04 paramat aw sorry i didn't
17:05 paramat i'll work on it later
17:06 paramat hmmmm here's my new proposal for a grass texture, hope it doesn't depress you =) https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/3686677​/9176569/044809dc-3f84-11e5-873f-c88016bf267d.png
17:07 VanessaE paramat: not bad, seems a bit oversaturated though?
17:07 lag01 joined #minetest-dev
17:08 VanessaE (it does seem to go well with the junglegrass though)
17:09 hmmmm hmm honestly I like it a lot
17:09 hmmmm we'll see a proper solution for grass coloring in the future
17:09 Calinou too saturated
17:09 Calinou this isn't Freedoom
17:10 sfan5 i like that texture
17:10 VanessaE I like it, it just needs a tad less saturation is all
17:10 hmmmm you know I've been wondering how to do the coloring
17:10 hmmmm maybe when in a certain biome, the entire screen is shaded slightly
17:11 hmmmm instead of just the grass
17:11 VanessaE noooo
17:11 Calinou Real is brown.
17:11 twoelk the air too?
17:11 VanessaE imagine the colors shifting whole-screen suddenly as you leave a biome
17:11 VanessaE +on
17:12 VanessaE hmmmm: remember that map format extension we discussed?  this is another use case for it.
17:12 VanessaE particularly the indexed color table.
17:12 hmmmm yea yea
17:13 hmmmm we'll speculate more later
17:13 VanessaE apply that color to a monochrome texture in "multiply" mode and it should work pretty well
17:16 paramat hm it's perhaps very slightly more saturated than the 0.4.10 texture, i can fix that
17:17 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
17:19 paramat VanessaE, i think you should submit your previous tree top texture for consideration, it was popular with the devs and will be a choice beside mine
17:20 CraigyDavi joined #minetest-dev
17:20 paramat i quite liked it too
17:20 VanessaE paramat: I did.  that was #619
17:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/619 -- fix 3d model mesh leak by sapier
17:20 VanessaE damn it
17:20 VanessaE game#619
17:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/619 -- Better jungle wood and jungle tree top textures by VanessaE
17:21 Sokomine just do a nice little further tree. more diffrently colored wood -> primitive huts look less ugly
17:21 VanessaE it contained the latest version
17:21 VanessaE but as you didn't like it, I closed.
17:22 paramat yep i mean the original 619 submission
17:23 paramat maybe repost it in the issue
17:23 paramat then i'll add mine later
17:23 VanessaE maybe you mean this one?  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbi​es/minetest/images/default_jungletree_top.png
17:23 VanessaE in any case all my attempts are in game#611 also
17:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring
17:24 paramat yeah that one
17:24 VanessaE after kilbith's last pot-shot I just don't care anymore
17:25 paramat not surprised, the comments were gross
17:27 est31 paramat, what exactly do you want to do with game#620 ?
17:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms by paramat
17:30 paramat i'm now fairly neutral, sfan5 any input on that?
17:30 paramat to be consistent we have the cheat as pilzadam prefers
17:30 RealBadAngel meanwhile, can we add some music for the menu?
17:30 paramat heh
17:31 RealBadAngel im serious
17:31 paramat don't get me started again =)
17:31 RealBadAngel i do
17:31 est31 This can be done with a contest too
17:31 RealBadAngel im listenin to the scorees atm
17:31 est31 people can submit scores
17:31 est31 then we do a forum poll
17:32 RealBadAngel folks
17:32 Calinou scores?
17:32 est31 err pieces
17:32 est31 urls to free music
17:32 RealBadAngel we wont get better ones we already have
17:32 RealBadAngel masters of the demoscene
17:32 est31 we dont have any music yet
17:32 RealBadAngel google for fairlight
17:33 RealBadAngel skaven gave us his permission
17:33 est31 I personally like chiptune, question is whether other people like it too.
17:35 * twoelk has mt run the old soundtrack from The Settlers videogame on startup. Now nobody can start mt secretly anymore. :-P
17:35 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjHNPzv9sGY
17:36 RealBadAngel i especially want this one to be main menu score
17:36 Niebieski I like chiptune too.
17:37 RealBadAngel this is not chiptune
17:37 RealBadAngel make this tune loud, to move the walls
17:38 Niebieski It would be good if we make it configurable.
17:38 RealBadAngel it is
17:38 RealBadAngel since a long time
17:38 Niebieski Well done/
17:39 RealBadAngel even each game can have its own tune
17:39 RealBadAngel but none have
17:39 RealBadAngel c55 and others are deaf just
17:40 RealBadAngel im fighting for the music since a yr or more
17:40 Niebieski It's alright everyone has different mindset.
17:40 RealBadAngel its allright
17:40 twoelk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPbfk6Vbqls howabout something like this? :-D
17:40 paramat c55 hmmmmm and many devs are opposed for good reason
17:41 RealBadAngel but nowadays game without music?
17:41 RealBadAngel no go
17:41 paramat that's sheep behaviour, to do something because others do
17:41 RealBadAngel no
17:42 RealBadAngel thats we are morons, while we can use best music out of demoscene and we dont
17:43 paramat anyway i've explained ad nauseum the problems here #1651 =)
17:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1651 -- Menu music (WIP) by RealBadAngel
17:44 RealBadAngel im fixing it now
17:44 RealBadAngel hell, we NEED it
17:45 RealBadAngel i am responsible for AV here
17:46 RealBadAngel you want me to get things going?
17:46 RealBadAngel let me do that
17:47 paramat as a mtgame dev i would find it almost impossible to choose something to impose on players, most of whom would not like it, not listen to it or mute it
17:47 paramat c55 is the AV maintainer, luckily for us
17:47 RealBadAngel let them mute it or hate it
17:48 RealBadAngel most of them will find that tune as mt one
17:48 RealBadAngel olders will recognize it as a piece of one of the most skilled composers for demoscene
17:48 RealBadAngel and a reason for mt to be proud to have it
17:49 twoelk so as tast my differ - intro music must be easy to change - at the click of a button
17:49 RealBadAngel it is
17:49 RealBadAngel each game can have its own music
17:49 twoelk it is?
17:50 RealBadAngel i made commits allowing that more than a yr ago
17:50 RealBadAngel since then im fuckin begging to get some music merged
17:51 RealBadAngel i get approval of Skaven
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17:51 * twoelk quits his running game and studies the main menu
17:52 RealBadAngel oh, BlockMen youre alive?
17:52 BlockMen could someone stop RBA messing with everything?
17:52 RealBadAngel :P
17:52 RealBadAngel everything?
17:52 BlockMen if you want music, add it to your game
17:52 BlockMen or to technic:game
17:52 RealBadAngel sorry, i forgot youre deaf
17:53 BlockMen you are a dev, so you should be able to do that
17:53 RealBadAngel music theme doesnt apply to BlockMen, sorry folks
17:53 BlockMen the minimap is shit btw
17:53 RealBadAngel oh rly?
17:53 RealBadAngel go on
17:54 BlockMen not that much time, sry
17:54 RealBadAngel so shut the fuck up
17:54 BlockMen lel
17:54 twoelk I like the way the music is used in mc, only coming up now and then or the taken back style used in Dark-Oberon http://dark-oberon.sourceforge.net/
17:54 RealBadAngel i took my time to code it
17:54 RealBadAngel youre just absent
17:55 RealBadAngel if you can do it better i will step aside
17:55 RealBadAngel if not, fuck off
17:55 BlockMen i didnt say i can do better, i just said its shit
17:56 RealBadAngel otherwise youre just crude
17:56 BlockMen radar mode for everyone
17:56 BlockMen yay
17:56 BlockMen minetest is a game engine, make it configurable for games
17:56 BlockMen stop hardcoding everythink
17:56 BlockMen *g
17:57 RealBadAngel youre still thinkin that lua can do things?
17:57 kaeza being hardcoded does not make it shit. those are different problems
17:57 RealBadAngel poor modder :P
17:57 RealBadAngel lua is good to mod nodes
17:58 BlockMen says the guy that hardcodes "default:water_source" for setting water shaders
17:58 RealBadAngel i did
17:58 BlockMen thats shit
17:58 RealBadAngel on the purpose
17:58 kaeza RealBadAngel, you could add a flag to player:set_hud_flags
17:58 BlockMen and everyone knows
17:58 RealBadAngel water will have own shader
17:58 RealBadAngel you saw videos on that
17:58 BlockMen since when, two years
17:58 BlockMen three?
17:58 BlockMen AV master
17:59 RealBadAngel we do have tangent space since a month or two
17:59 BlockMen oh, and where are your 3d torches?
17:59 BlockMen and not this extruded shit
18:00 RealBadAngel most of the effects was not being able to achieve without tangent space
18:01 RealBadAngel see how the game looks now with default textures
18:01 RealBadAngel none of the voxel games has such beatutiful gfx by default
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18:02 BlockMen dont forget the lovely redish shit: #2866
18:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866 -- Graphical regression.
18:03 BlockMen its sooo beautiful
18:03 RealBadAngel sure
18:03 RealBadAngel some old shit is just not capable of doing shaders
18:03 RealBadAngel sorry
18:04 RealBadAngel we dont support watches, fridges or 9 yrs old hw
18:04 BlockMen so you are now giving a shit on integrated graphics
18:04 RealBadAngel opengl 2.1 is just too old
18:04 BlockMen nice
18:04 BlockMen it hapens on 4.2.0 aswell
18:05 BlockMen *+p
18:05 RealBadAngel nice? im not indiana jones
18:05 RealBadAngel im not digging in the jungle to get shit
18:05 BlockMen right, you are producing it yourself
18:05 RealBadAngel opengl 2.1 has limits
18:06 BlockMen cant you read. 4.2.0 has the SAME regressions
18:06 RealBadAngel we wont be supporting it
18:06 RealBadAngel youre mistaken
18:06 RealBadAngel not the same
18:07 RealBadAngel red means shader is not compiled
18:07 RealBadAngel reasons can be different
18:07 BlockMen oh, and could you finally fix the glitched wield item, great AV master?
18:07 BlockMen its broken for more than a half year now
18:08 RealBadAngel it can be too old hw, or each manufacturer of GPU treating code own way
18:08 RealBadAngel sorry, wrong address
18:08 RealBadAngel its not my code :P
18:08 RealBadAngel call kahrl for that :P
18:09 BlockMen but you are the AV maintainer. at least you said that a few minutes ago
18:09 BlockMen so its your job then
18:09 RealBadAngel i am?
18:09 BlockMen http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-08-11#i_4360515
18:09 RealBadAngel sorry im not
18:09 VanessaE [08-11 13:45] <RealBadAngel> i am responsible for AV here
18:09 BlockMen well, then dont say you are
18:09 VanessaE pretty sure you did :)
18:09 RealBadAngel i said im doing things
18:10 RealBadAngel but i dont have a job there :P
18:10 RealBadAngel and you BlockMen, instead of fooling around get your ass to work
18:10 BlockMen ah, so i have a job here?
18:11 BlockMen ok, wheres my money?
18:11 RealBadAngel youre popping now like jack out of the box and claimin what?
18:11 RealBadAngel what have you done recently?
18:11 RealBadAngel nothing?
18:11 BlockMen that you should stop making the game worse.
18:11 VanessaE paramat: so what's your idea then about the jungle tree texture?  something based on one of mine? or on the original 0.3.x one?
18:11 RealBadAngel oh
18:11 RealBadAngel im makin the game worse....
18:12 RealBadAngel youre just fuckin idiot. period.
18:12 Krock RealBadAngel, thanks for notifying. Haven't noticed it yet.
18:13 RealBadAngel going to make myself a sandwidch and put your precious person on ignore, good bye BlockMen
18:13 BlockMen better that you think im an just fukin idiot" than accepting shit without saying anything
18:13 twoelk Krock. is that video your suggestion for mt? ;-)
18:13 * Krock looks interesed at this dav battle
18:13 Krock *dev
18:13 RealBadAngel your mods were worth a shit btw
18:13 Krock twoelk, yeah. the opening song
18:13 BlockMen oh, im really hit now
18:13 twoelk hmm daft battle may fit
18:14 BlockMen noooo...blease dont ignore me
18:14 BlockMen jyou are soooo important to me
18:14 paramat something inbetween, a smaller square trunk (10x10) with thicker strangler stems around it, medium brown core
18:14 RealBadAngel its not a battle
18:14 RealBadAngel its a break to make a sandwich
18:14 VanessaE paramat: ok.
18:15 Krock RealBadAngel, well, you both insult eachother
18:15 twoelk can't you both just join some hungergames server and punch it out?
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18:16 BlockMen for the protocol: i was wrong with 4.2.0 and the red error
18:16 BlockMen but that changes nothing at the rest i listed
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18:20 VanessaE BlockMen: I have to say something: you've been virtually absent from here for any discussion for months now.  I can't say that your input should have the greatest amount of weight at present.
18:21 BlockMen hmm...
18:22 BlockMen why you think so? what has actually changed concerning the things i mentioned?
18:22 BlockMen e.g. the mainmenu music
18:22 BlockMen or the torches?
18:22 VanessaE well to be honest, I don't have any problem with adding some kind of "default" main menu music.
18:23 VanessaE and you know my opinion on torches.
18:23 BlockMen so i repeat my question: what has actually changed= ;)
18:23 * VanessaE shrugs
18:29 sfan5 <sfan5> BlockMens builds are missing MSVCP100.dll
18:29 sfan5 <sfan5> they do not run on a fresh windows 10 installation
18:29 sfan5 ^ BlockMen
18:30 BlockMen sfan5, yeah, i saw it. that was actually the reason why i read the logs
18:30 BlockMen and stumpled over the rest ...
18:30 BlockMen will add the dll to the release then, thanks for testing.
18:31 sfan5 i don't know if there is any other dll missing
18:31 sfan5 but it's probably just the msvc runtime
18:31 BlockMen did you test it with it?
18:31 sfan5 no
18:32 BlockMen seems MS doesnt install Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package by default anymore
18:32 Krock sfan5, how about my builds btw?
18:32 sfan5 didn't test them
18:32 Krock ah okay
18:32 BlockMen Krock, wich MSVC version your are using?
18:32 BlockMen *+h
18:32 Krock BlockMen, the C++ 2010 one
18:33 Krock ack, no idea what version number
18:33 RealBadAngel Krock, BlockMen is insulting me for doing something, while he doesnt do anything
18:33 RealBadAngel thats a slight difference
18:34 BlockMen if you do not include the dll aswell, then i guess your wont work aswell
18:34 RealBadAngel anyway, i feel tired of such insults
18:34 Krock RealBadAngel, I have him on a PM. I try to decrease the noise about this theme.
18:35 RealBadAngel hire some other av guy
18:36 Krock RealBadAngel, about your minimap thing: Would it be possible for you to add a Lua function to the player object? Right like th set_player_physics one, to disable parts of the engine per-player?
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18:36 BlockMen ^ hudflag, as kaeza already suggested
18:36 RealBadAngel that was the plan for the future, but what fot
18:36 RealBadAngel its a shit anywyays
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18:37 BlockMen RealBadAngel, when you dont want it called like that, then finish it before pushing
18:37 Krock eh. As long it happens before 0.4.13 is released, there's no problem
18:38 VanessaE it won't.
18:38 RealBadAngel then delete minimap just and give me a break
18:38 VanessaE that's a feature and we're in freeze.
18:38 Krock VanessaE, too bad :/
18:38 BlockMen thats bugfixing, no feature
18:38 Krock it's definitely a feature
18:38 VanessaE BlockMen: allowing a mod to disable it, is a feature.
18:38 RealBadAngel ive done minimap and i feel like i shouldnt even touch it
18:39 RealBadAngel its not related anyway to my work
18:39 BlockMen no, its fullfilling the specs of a game engine
18:39 BlockMen VanessaE^
18:40 VanessaE BlockMen: the spec when it was created did not allow for a disable option.
18:40 RealBadAngel threading is fucked up, most of you are working on dug up 386 or something, dont know if with coprocessors even
18:40 BlockMen RealBadAngel, i didnt ment to make this personal. but seeing how you are mainly pushing features and let others fix it / complete it is not a thing i can stand
18:40 RealBadAngel i should just have modified client and have a peace of mind
18:41 RealBadAngel you did make it personal
18:41 RealBadAngel and i respond personal to you
18:41 Krock Just don't continue this until we reach the proller-situation.
18:41 RealBadAngel im not far from it
18:41 BlockMen i think we reached it kinda :\
18:41 RealBadAngel hmmm has pushed it to the limits
18:42 Krock oh great <.<
18:42 RealBadAngel now blockmen - an insivisible guy - starting the same
18:43 RealBadAngel im not a child, im 42 yrs old. i can just say fuck off and go away
18:43 BlockMen RealBadAngel, could you stop at least now with these "shiny" addjectives"?
18:43 RealBadAngel and i wont feel sorry for that
18:43 RealBadAngel shiny, lol
18:43 RealBadAngel is a shit shiny with you?
18:44 * twoelk knows some very shiny shit
18:44 RealBadAngel do something shiny before you attempt to call others work like that
18:45 RealBadAngel atm your shit is almost transparent and it doesnt shine
18:45 RealBadAngel today youre just a guest here
18:45 BlockMen RealBadAngel, fine. when you dont stop i dont see a reason to do
18:46 * twoelk actually prefers shiny shit as dry shit sorta hurts when producing it
18:46 RealBadAngel you have started it
18:46 Krock +1 twoelk
18:47 BlockMen and i stopped it. since you dont see: i have not the intention to keep it on this level
18:47 RealBadAngel im used to be blamed for earth moving and everythinh
18:47 RealBadAngel but callin my work shit? its way beyond limits
18:48 RealBadAngel since 3 yrs or something im coding for this project
18:48 BlockMen just fix it. again: this is an engine, not a singlegamed project
18:49 RealBadAngel fix what?
18:49 RealBadAngel a shit?
18:49 RealBadAngel disable it with a setting and begone
18:50 * twoelk listens to be enlightened on what BlockMen is most annoyed about
18:50 RealBadAngel idk, hes obsessed with shit
18:51 BlockMen twoelk, hardcoded things that cant be controled by (sub)games
18:51 BlockMen like the minimap. this radarmode isnt "cool" for every game
18:51 RealBadAngel whats most funny, folks seems to like minimap idea but everybody thinks it can be done better
18:51 RealBadAngel yet nobody even tried to make it
18:51 twoelk after some scrolling I would have bet on wield-item-glitch
18:51 RealBadAngel i made minimap working realtime
18:52 RealBadAngel but hmmmm , BlockMen are thinkin its a shit
18:52 RealBadAngel so fuck off and do it better
18:52 nore RBA, it's not
18:52 RealBadAngel if YOU CAN
18:52 RealBadAngel otherwise just shut up
18:52 Krock I agree, this minimap is a great start.
18:53 nore it's good
18:53 BlockMen RealBadAngel, you want tell me now that you cant handle hud flags, is that right?
18:53 twoelk for what it's worth I really like the minimap, I used gsmapper before but I do agree that the radar mode my breack the intend of some games
18:53 kahrl oh how I love being pinged in the middle of a flamefest
18:54 RealBadAngel hehe
18:54 Krock xD
18:54 RealBadAngel BlockMen, if you can do better code, youre welcome
18:55 Krock require(Compromise);
18:55 RealBadAngel before you will submit something, just diive
18:55 RealBadAngel youre just funny
18:56 RealBadAngel i made the game look up to the times
18:57 BlockMen RealBadAngel, ok. i really tried to keep it calm. but since you are not willing to, i wont either
18:57 twoelk argh
18:57 RealBadAngel calm? by calling my work shit?
18:57 RealBadAngel very original way to be calm
18:58 BlockMen srsly? for a 42 year old you behave more than childish
18:58 twoelk pfff
18:58 RealBadAngel you know what? i could spend this time on coding
18:58 sfan5 wat
18:58 RealBadAngel i will rather do that now
18:59 kaeza <VanessaE> BlockMen: allowing a mod to disable it, is a feature.
18:59 RealBadAngel UI needs some improvements
18:59 kaeza I would argue it's a trivial feature
18:59 RealBadAngel i figured out some things while i was playing on my new tablet
19:00 BlockMen ok, fine. since most here agree to this way, keep it as is.
19:00 twoelk call it a gameplay breaker of some rare subgames and get it included so some games/serverowners can dissable the radar mode
19:00 BlockMen idc anymore.
19:00 BlockMen add your music
19:01 BlockMen have fun
19:01 Sokomine just for the record: i like minimap a lot and often turn it on. it works by far better than any previous lua attempts
19:03 RealBadAngel Sokomine, youre turnin on a shit?
19:03 RealBadAngel how could it be folks are using a shit?
19:04 VanessaE *sigh*
19:04 nore RealBadAngel: it's not a shit
19:04 nore it's *good*
19:04 VanessaE kaeza: trivial it may be but apparently even the most trivial are against the rules *right now* if there's any chance of things breaking (not to say there is, just making a point)
19:05 RealBadAngel BlockMen called it a shit
19:05 BlockMen cry
19:05 RealBadAngel hes a dev, he knows better
19:05 RealBadAngel its a shit
19:05 nore although it could be a bit improved, it's very good right now
19:05 nore RealBadAngel: I am a dev too, I don't call it a shit
19:06 RealBadAngel i agree it can work a bit better, theres no perfect code from start
19:06 RealBadAngel everything can be improved
19:06 RealBadAngel but calling a working solution a shit is just an insult
19:06 nore it is
19:06 RealBadAngel and for that im overreacting
19:06 nore so, just keep calm
19:07 RealBadAngel and showing middle finger in general BlockMen direction
19:07 nore ...
19:07 * BlockMen is shocked
19:07 RealBadAngel you should be
19:07 BlockMen some ppl dont know when to stop...
19:07 BlockMen i did 30 minutes ago
19:07 RealBadAngel doing nothing, popping up and calling others work a shit
19:08 RealBadAngel for minimap thing to work i spent like two weeks coding nonstop
19:09 RealBadAngel i started with working but very slow code
19:09 RealBadAngel by gsmanner
19:09 RealBadAngel out of it i managed to make real time minimapper
19:10 RealBadAngel and since then im continously blamed for low quality code
19:10 RealBadAngel i WONDER if any of you could make the same
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19:11 RealBadAngel atm all of the haters are just full mouths
19:13 ThatGraemeGuy o_O
19:15 kaeza this is going nowhere
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19:16 est31 I agree to making minimap changes inside the feature freeze
19:16 est31 it is a feature, but doing it inside freeze is ok IMO
19:17 est31 we should think about: 1. making the server be abled to set the minimap modes
19:17 est31 and 2. make the server be abled to show a particular minimap mode
19:17 est31 with it I mean that its like it would simulate f9/shift-f9 presses
19:18 est31 so that we have a solution for android
19:18 est31 so you can exit it with f9
19:18 est31 or f9 is disabled while its shown
19:18 est31 dunno, but im ok with prolonging the freeze
19:19 est31 for such a feature
19:19 kaeza I think just an on/off flag would be fine for now, and implement a full system after release, no?
19:19 kaeza huh... he left?
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19:20 est31 FYI i dont think minimap is shit
19:20 hmmmm what is with the enter/leave thing est
19:25 sfan5 o.O
19:29 * twoelk wonders wether some features of minimap could/should be bound to privs
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20:13 RealBadAngel est31 i stated some things before minimap was even in
20:13 RealBadAngel i want it to be fully controleable from lua
20:14 RealBadAngel to be even a cratfeable thingy
20:14 RealBadAngel if a game decide to do so
20:14 RealBadAngel but api for that is totally separate thing
20:15 RealBadAngel imho first we do need a working code, then we can work it out
20:15 RealBadAngel improve it, make it faster, hunt bugs
20:15 RealBadAngel but
20:16 RealBadAngel we are working on done solution
20:16 RealBadAngel not on imaginery "shit"
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20:25 RealBadAngel i can understand requests for better algorithms, or nicer formatting
20:26 RealBadAngel thats ok
20:26 RealBadAngel and i said i will improve code in my area
20:28 RealBadAngel but BlockMen, next time you will pop with something like this, i will block any of your work,  regardless of its quality
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20:35 hmmmm [04:28 PM] <RealBadAngel> but BlockMen, next time you will pop with something like this, i will block any of your work,  regardless of its quality
20:36 hmmmm that is vindictive and wouldn't stand
20:36 hmmmm he'd simply get his work reviewed by other people who aren't biased against him
20:39 RealBadAngel hmmmm, how would u feel if i will start to call any of your code shit?
20:39 hmmmm depends on how valid the complaints are
20:39 hmmmm but i wouldn't block your commits because of it
20:40 RealBadAngel my commits are working. have flaws - can be fixed
20:40 hmmmm my honest opinion on the minimap is that it's a decent start
20:40 hmmmm it does what it needs to, it's stable after my initial modifications
20:40 hmmmm but don't be afraid to accept criticism
20:40 hmmmm yeah it does suck
20:40 RealBadAngel im mature enough to know that i made shitload of work
20:40 hmmmm it sucks CPU for something as trivial as scanning downward in a 3d array
20:41 RealBadAngel to get it workin at all
20:41 hmmmm could be done better but you know that
20:41 hmmmm at least it can be disabled
20:41 RealBadAngel our next goal is to make it better
20:41 hmmmm if something is clearly a work-in-progress, then add a enable/disable option and have it off by default
20:42 hmmmm the problem is that the initial commit didn't quite shut off the minimal
20:42 hmmmm minimap*
20:42 RealBadAngel such feature cannot be hanged forever
20:42 hmmmm it was still allocating huge blocks of memory and adding them to a queue
20:42 hmmmm more importantly
20:42 hmmmm if I say "this looks like it might be leaking memory"
20:43 hmmmm don't just say "YEAH IT'S NOT I'M SURE"
20:43 RealBadAngel yes
20:43 hmmmm "IT'S TOTALLY OK TRUST ME"
20:43 RealBadAngel but
20:43 hmmmm investigate and come up with an actual answer
20:43 RealBadAngel you have cut it
20:43 RealBadAngel and broke radar mode :)
20:43 hmmmm i don't know how radar mode is supposed to be but it looked fine before and after my modifications
20:43 RealBadAngel so right was in the middle
20:44 hmmmm it seems to work... fine...
20:44 hmmmm don't get what the messup was
20:44 RealBadAngel no it does not
20:44 hmmmm what's the expected behavior?
20:44 hmmmm also maybe this is an indication that you should write unit tests for your code
20:45 RealBadAngel kinda night googles vision on the ground
20:45 RealBadAngel gfx is not unit tests compliant
20:45 hmmmm BS
20:45 RealBadAngel it does LOOK or it does not
20:45 est31 joined #minetest-dev
20:45 hmmmm when you have what you're making perfect, you save the test data as a png or something
20:46 paramat joined #minetest-dev
20:46 hmmmm then compare results rendered in the unit test with what you saved
20:46 RealBadAngel i was fighting with parallax code for more than a year
20:46 hmmmm so?
20:46 hmmmm am i asking for too much?
20:46 RealBadAngel it was done before, right?
20:46 RealBadAngel but now it does look brilliant
20:47 hmmmm and rendering is ass slow :/
20:47 hmmmm i still need to look into that
20:47 RealBadAngel no
20:47 RealBadAngel that code is faster than autogen
20:47 est31 game#621
20:47 paramat sfan5 any comments/approval for the new grass commit? game#622
20:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/621 -- Flowers: Revert changes to mushroom drops by paramat
20:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/622 -- Default: New grass textures, remove grass with footsteps by paramat
20:47 est31 whats this stupid shit paramat
20:47 hmmmm nvidia GTX 660, nvidia proprietary driver, 20 FPS with shaders disabled and fancy leaves disabled
20:47 hmmmm 100 block view distance
20:48 hmmmm does this sound right to you?
20:48 VanessaE paramat: don't remove grass-with-footsteps
20:48 est31 you can cheat
20:48 RealBadAngel i am aware of that
20:48 est31 this is bullshit
20:48 RealBadAngel and im in a deadlock
20:48 paramat okay Vanessa
20:48 VanessaE it's still used in a few places (notably stormchaser's Skyblock server - maybe it ain't the same exact node though)
20:48 RealBadAngel since on my box its working fine
20:48 paramat 'shit' is today's word =)
20:49 RealBadAngel im always pretty close to 60 fps
20:49 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  I'm just saying that "no, it's fine" is the wrong answer
20:49 est31 paramat, you want to reintroduce an obvious bug
20:49 hmmmm i'm having FPS problems and so is everybody else except for you
20:49 est31 its not one of these things that are hidden
20:49 est31 or hard to reproduce
20:49 paramat est you know what it is, pilzadam has requested and i agree, it's consistent with farming
20:49 hmmmm if somebody says there is a problem, then say maybe there is instead of denying it
20:49 est31 its a clearly observable, BUG
20:49 VanessaE paramat: better to make a translucent "footsteps" overlay and ^ it over the grass texture.
20:50 est31 paramat, its not consistent with farming at all
20:50 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you may hate me for that but thats obviously something wrong with irr and drivers
20:50 paramat aha yes good idea Vanessa
20:50 est31 you dig a wheat plant, do you get wheat plant in return?
20:50 est31 no
20:50 hmmmm see
20:50 hmmmm there you do it again
20:50 est31 you get wheat
20:50 est31 and you get wheat seeds
20:50 hmmmm you blame everything that isn't you
20:50 RealBadAngel i do have same system as VE does, but NVIDIA and INTEL
20:50 est31 if you select the wheat and right click, there IS NO WHEAT PLANT PLACED
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20:50 paramat consistent with grasses and junglegrass for seeds
20:50 hmmmm a GTX660 gets me 20 fps
20:51 est31 paramat, no
20:51 hmmmm bone stock textures
20:51 est31 you either get grass or you get seeds
20:51 hmmmm shaders completely disabled
20:51 est31 but you never get both
20:51 hmmmm fancy leaves disabled
20:51 est31 NEVER
20:51 RealBadAngel maybe its time to switch to more modern renderer?
20:51 est31 current behaviour is just like grass
20:51 RealBadAngel irrlicht seems to be dead
20:51 VanessaE in practice, my R9 280x gets me 25 to 40 fps at anywhere from 115 down to 35 meters, depending on the scene, with stock textures
20:51 paramat erm so pilzadam is wrong?
20:51 est31 RealBadAngel, it is time, but we want to make a release that still can be played with opengl 2.1
20:52 est31 paramat, I dunno if hes wrong, that comment couldnt be understood
20:52 paramat i have both PRs ready so can push either =)
20:52 RealBadAngel est31, most of shaders effects are not compliant with 2.1
20:52 RealBadAngel by DEFINITION
20:52 est31 RealBadAngel, what about making simple shaders
20:53 est31 just copy the whole shaders code, before it was your normal fixes
20:53 est31 err changes*
20:53 RealBadAngel simle means, lighting, waving, nothing more
20:53 est31 then put that into a different directory
20:53 RealBadAngel literally: NOTHIN more
20:53 est31 just take the state as it was before you broke it
20:53 RealBadAngel pipeline is too short
20:53 est31 as it still worked
20:53 paramat "Leaves and grass work the same way" hm leaves seem to have a cheat to get saplings?
20:54 est31 no they dont
20:54 est31 because you either get saplings, or you get leaves
20:54 est31 but never both
20:54 RealBadAngel "breaking" is meaning i reached the pipeline max limit
20:54 paramat aha
20:54 RealBadAngel 512
20:54 RealBadAngel i hit that shit with parallax code and unrolling the loops
20:55 est31 512 what?
20:55 RealBadAngel u cant prevent unrolling
20:55 RealBadAngel shaders are compiled runtime
20:55 RealBadAngel and loops are unrolled
20:55 est31 512 kb code?
20:55 est31 or 512 lines of code?
20:55 RealBadAngel of instructions
20:55 est31 or 512 kb bytecode?
20:56 est31 ok, so thats why opengl 2.1 fails?
20:56 est31 or is that just a theory
20:56 paramat argh all mtgame devs have gone
20:56 RealBadAngel not a theory
20:56 RealBadAngel ive tested that heavily
20:57 RealBadAngel loop with 4  worked ok and compiled
20:57 est31 so you have an opengl 2.1 box around where you did the tests?
20:57 RealBadAngel with 5, failed to compile
20:57 est31 paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/farming/nodes.lua#L143
20:57 RealBadAngel i was working for a whole day with some1 online to get those things done
20:57 est31 you see the "max_items = 1," here?
20:57 est31 you NEVER get both
20:58 paramat yeah, thanks
20:58 RealBadAngel to figure out the real reason while it fails it took several hours
20:58 paramat think i'll just push 620 then, i reopened it
20:59 est31 what are BlockMen's problems with spores btw?
20:59 RealBadAngel imagine the code with  loop set to 0 and 24 and the other 0 to 4
20:59 RealBadAngel one fails, one works
20:59 RealBadAngel now guess why
20:59 paramat heh i don't want to know
20:59 RealBadAngel i was removing whole parts of code
21:00 RealBadAngel and get different results
21:00 est31 so you have the fix for 2.1?
21:00 RealBadAngel after a few hours uncle told me that loops are UNCONDITIONALLY unrolled
21:01 RealBadAngel i thougt i will throw my seat at the monitor
21:01 RealBadAngel literally
21:01 est31 lol
21:02 RealBadAngel nvidia have some tricks to turn it off
21:02 RealBadAngel but amd doesnt
21:03 RealBadAngel and yes, i can have a fix for 2.1
21:03 RealBadAngel i just have to cut down the funcionality
21:03 RealBadAngel and introduce the LITE shaders
21:04 paramat VanessaE, how about i make a new footsteps overlay with a square footprint?
21:04 RealBadAngel thats quite easy atm
21:04 VanessaE paramat: nah, not too square, it'll look weird
21:04 VanessaE then egain the player has square feet.
21:04 VanessaE again*
21:04 paramat lol but layer's feet
21:04 VanessaE ninja'd :)
21:04 paramat yeah i'll do that
21:04 VanessaE ok
21:04 paramat (players)
21:05 RealBadAngel some elephants can argue with that :P
21:05 VanessaE paramat: how about square, but missing a few of the corner pixels (there would be 8, so lose maybe half of them)?
21:05 RealBadAngel and lawyers too ;)
21:05 RealBadAngel i do have actually a better idea
21:05 est31 RealBadAngel, when can you get those lite shaders ready?
21:06 est31 best it should detect whether its running opengl 2.1 or earlier, and then use those
21:06 paramat well i'll make it have a rough edge..
21:06 RealBadAngel est31.... if i wont get a shitload of shit on my head, maybe by tommorow? ;)
21:06 VanessaE paramat: yeah, that should work.
21:06 RealBadAngel wait wait wait
21:07 RealBadAngel footsteps
21:07 est31 wow thats fast O_o
21:07 VanessaE what ware we waiting for, RealBadAngel ? :P
21:07 RealBadAngel make it lower the ground
21:07 RealBadAngel with a heightmap
21:07 VanessaE eh
21:07 paramat you can do that later
21:07 RealBadAngel its as easy as adding new heightmap
21:08 paramat cool idea
21:08 RealBadAngel so foosteps will make actually holes in the ground
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21:08 est31 good use
21:08 est31 thats the "grass" part of "dirt with grass"
21:09 est31 being stomped on
21:09 RealBadAngel btw i noticed footsteps playing on skyblock server
21:09 VanessaE good idea.
21:09 RealBadAngel it does update realtime, and you can see footsteps on minimap
21:09 paramat will the footstep being an overlay be a problem for you implementing this
21:10 est31 overlay?
21:10 paramat or better a single texture?
21:10 VanessaE nah
21:10 RealBadAngel no its not a problen
21:10 paramat ok
21:10 est31 ah
21:10 RealBadAngel im adding the normals
21:10 VanessaE normalmap overlays combine the same as the imagery they represent does.
21:10 est31 overlay texture
21:11 RealBadAngel i shouldnt but for sake of simpilicty i do
21:11 RealBadAngel more height takes precedence
21:11 RealBadAngel theres no blending
21:13 paramat anyway i have enough approval for new grass, nore and sfan5 like it, will push later with footstep stuff
21:13 RealBadAngel btw i should make pr for grass (lol) and others
21:13 RealBadAngel paramat, just IN TIME :)
21:14 est31 paramat, you want to make it even lighter?
21:15 RealBadAngel ive made several heightmaps for default textures
21:15 est31 you should perhaps get consensus on the even lighter grass texture too
21:15 RealBadAngel est31, displacement and bumpmapping code makes textures darker
21:15 RealBadAngel thx to shadows
21:15 paramat no the PR just has slightly reduced saturation
21:16 RealBadAngel im againts making any of the textures darker by default
21:16 RealBadAngel lighter - propably ok
21:16 RealBadAngel but darker - thats not so obvious
21:17 est31 RealBadAngel, bumpmapping and displacement arent always on
21:17 RealBadAngel est31, theyre on on modern PCs
21:17 est31 they arent on my box
21:17 RealBadAngel read: this is how the game looks like
21:17 est31 and I've bought it last year
21:17 RealBadAngel lol
21:18 est31 and they arent on on boxes for people with opengl 2.1
21:18 paramat for mushrooms i'll catch the team tomorrow, i prefer the PR with the sporeless mushrooms, more challenge
21:19 est31 I'm ok with any change that doesn't re-introduce the bug
21:26 VanessaE paramat: in that ^^^^ case, Dan's mushroom mod also has a spore identifier and dirt-with-grass occasionally drops unidentified spores  ;)
21:26 est joined #minetest-dev
21:27 est OK about minimap, what should we do next
21:27 est as in: how should we make minimap moddable from lua?
21:28 est customizeable etc
21:28 est we have multiple use-cases here
21:28 est Currently, minimap is activated/mode changed via the f9 and the shift-f9 keys
21:29 VanessaE est: minetest.minimap_allow({ visible=true, radar=true, surface=true, craft_requires="default:minimap_item"});
21:29 est craft_requires?
21:29 VanessaE yeah, if this item is crafted and used, turn on the minimap.
21:29 est and what should visible be?
21:30 VanessaE visible=true allows the user to turn the map on without any special privs/crafts
21:30 est perhaps no_craft_requires?
21:30 VanessaE perhaps.
21:30 VanessaE I was just tossing it out there, first thing off the top of my head
21:31 est how can you switch modes with the craft_requires?
21:31 est use it again?
21:31 VanessaE the craft_requires item (or whatever it gets calls) would have an on-use callback
21:31 est how to close the minimap?
21:31 VanessaE on_rightclick?
21:33 VanessaE in either case, the callback would still need to call a function to actually open/switch modes/close the map
21:35 est yea, I'm more thinking about this API
21:35 est TOCLIENT_MIMIMAP_MODES
21:35 est and TOCLIENT_MINIMAP_SETMODE
21:36 est with according player:set_minimap_modes and player:select_minimap_mode calls
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21:49 RealBadAngel est, minimap is client side only
21:50 RealBadAngel to get it fully controlled we need client side modding
21:50 est RealBadAngel, I know, but minimap should become controlled by server
21:50 RealBadAngel partially
21:50 est we don't "need" it
21:50 RealBadAngel to become it an item or so
21:50 est we can control the source code
21:50 est of client, and server
21:50 est and we can control the protocol
21:51 est just a small change here, small change there
21:51 est done!
21:51 RealBadAngel but look, position and the stuff like that its skinning
21:51 est position isn't important
21:51 est neither is size
21:51 est what is important is which mode to allow
21:51 RealBadAngel puttint that server side is putting unnecesary load on the server
21:52 est I don't say the mapping code should run there
21:52 est I only say that the customisation happens on the server
21:52 est e.g. to make it a craftable item
21:52 est or to make it only show to players with a certain priv
21:52 est or so.
21:53 RealBadAngel we shall open an issue and discuss there what shall be done
21:53 est ok
21:53 RealBadAngel meanwhile i found a bug
21:54 VanessaE RealBadAngel: a bug in minetest?  say it ain't so! :)
21:54 est nooooo!
21:54 est a bug!
21:54 RealBadAngel with highlighting enabled water becomes in whole block non opaque
21:55 RealBadAngel i need to fix that before 13
21:56 VanessaE it happens without highlighting too
21:56 VanessaE random whole-block-sized patches of opaque and translucent water
21:56 RealBadAngel good to know
21:56 VanessaE or sometimes just all at once
21:56 VanessaE and it flicks between states randomly as well
21:57 RealBadAngel actually PLAYIN the game helps
21:57 est #1404
21:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1404 -- water opacity bug with irrlicht 1.8.x
21:57 VanessaE that's the one
21:57 RealBadAngel 1.7.3 here
21:58 RealBadAngel its a pointed thing bug
21:58 RealBadAngel i think
21:58 est and my dupes #2780 has further screenshots
21:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2780 -- Render bug with shaders enabled
21:58 est dupe*
21:58 VanessaE looks like 1.8.1 here.
21:59 VanessaE est: yep, I get that ^^^ one to.
21:59 VanessaE too*
21:59 VanessaE I could swear I've seen it *without* shaders though
21:59 RealBadAngel its a bit weird
22:00 RealBadAngel but definitely not close to syncying the textures
22:00 RealBadAngel that would be propably never fixed
22:01 RealBadAngel there will be always a delay
22:02 RealBadAngel i can see no way to fix such an issue
22:02 VanessaE it's not the textures.
22:02 VanessaE it's the opacity
22:02 RealBadAngel i know
22:02 VanessaE the water's opacity changes randomly, for no reason at all
22:02 RealBadAngel im adressing the other one
22:02 RealBadAngel atm
22:02 est #3036
22:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3036 -- Minimap needs to be customizeable by the server
22:03 VanessaE which one, RBA?
22:03 RealBadAngel textures out of sync, for large areas
22:03 VanessaE oh
22:03 VanessaE actually that can be fixed
22:03 VanessaE there's a flag to force it.
22:03 RealBadAngel water is animated, blocks are getting updates  with time
22:04 RealBadAngel but theres no way to make ALL the water nodes using the very same frame
22:04 VanessaE sync is disabled by default because it supposedly costs CPU
22:04 RealBadAngel some blocks will get it sooner some later
22:05 RealBadAngel sync setting in this case is a bad joke
22:05 RealBadAngel by definition it wont work. never.
22:06 VanessaE "never is a long time."
22:06 RealBadAngel only solution could be something different
22:06 RealBadAngel in main thread setting a current animation frame
22:06 RealBadAngel and let renderer using just the one frame
22:07 RealBadAngel this way sync could be achieved
22:07 RealBadAngel letting multiple thread tasks to decide whats current will never work
22:08 est what??
22:08 est threads?
22:08 RealBadAngel on animate picks the frame to show
22:08 est we just have one thread
22:08 RealBadAngel its based on dtime
22:08 est irrlicht would break otherwise
22:09 RealBadAngel thats code next to lighting
22:09 est what does dtime have to do with threads
22:09 RealBadAngel all animated nodes in a mapblock are marked and pointers to them strored
22:09 RealBadAngel *stored
22:10 RealBadAngel then each dtime step theyre updated
22:10 est thats wasteful
22:10 RealBadAngel indeed
22:10 RealBadAngel thats our lighting and animation (and digging) system
22:11 RealBadAngel for that shit my miimap is blamed for
22:11 est the minimap is blamed for animation problems?
22:11 est that can't be
22:11 RealBadAngel loading single block is causing  updates of  17 other blocks
22:12 est why 17?
22:12 est I've thought only 6
22:12 RealBadAngel something with edge
22:12 RealBadAngel its fucked up as hell
22:13 RealBadAngel i pointed you an entry line where this shit starts
22:13 est you did?
22:13 RealBadAngel yes i did
22:13 RealBadAngel i told you about mapblock mesh generartion flood
22:14 est ah yes, some time ago
22:15 est but still we have to do it, e.g. for stairs nodes
22:15 est or for connected glass
22:15 est err railway nodes, not stair nodes
22:15 RealBadAngel updating once is ok
22:15 RealBadAngel but letting update all around is wrong
22:16 RealBadAngel theres also a race
22:16 RealBadAngel if receiver can found duplicates in quee it erases it
22:17 RealBadAngel so i wasnt able to make minimap to generate an entry just once
22:17 RealBadAngel it ended with an checkerboard
22:18 RealBadAngel its simply a huge flood of calls
22:18 RealBadAngel why it works only god knows
22:18 RealBadAngel theres no way to synchronize it
22:20 est we have to update all around
22:20 RealBadAngel list of block to update should be prepared server side
22:20 RealBadAngel filtered
22:20 RealBadAngel then sent
22:21 est have you read what I've said
22:21 est we need it for connected glass, and raillike
22:21 RealBadAngel no
22:21 RealBadAngel we need it filtered
22:21 RealBadAngel but on the other side
22:22 RealBadAngel atm client gets spammed
22:22 RealBadAngel also theres no way to say which block was the origin of the update
22:23 RealBadAngel because all the other blocks are causing updates too
22:23 est what we need is a boolean return value of close updates
22:23 RealBadAngel propably
22:24 RealBadAngel we do need original block to be not ereaseable  from queue
22:25 RealBadAngel that will limit  also minimap scan callls
22:25 RealBadAngel atm, calls for updates are just a lottery
22:26 RealBadAngel "lets spam the client, first one wins"
22:31 RealBadAngel when i got how this really works my first thought was "i need to get my toys outta here"
22:31 RealBadAngel and make mapper be  separate task at all
22:32 RealBadAngel just be called at the same place, but just once
22:33 RealBadAngel but atm im trapped in the system
22:34 RealBadAngel c55 suggested that solution and now its a bit hard to get it done other way
22:35 RealBadAngel he said that minimap should be able to show everything whats can be rendered
22:35 RealBadAngel so mapblock mesh updates were only logical solution
22:35 RealBadAngel i just didnt knew, or was aware of the spam problem
22:36 kahrl joined #minetest-dev
22:47 RealBadAngel hmmmm, btw if you havent noticed what you broke: https://imgrush.com/folzWGrfHhCy.png
22:47 RealBadAngel this is how radar mode shoud look like
22:48 RealBadAngel i believe you never was flying those aircrafts you were making code for
22:48 RealBadAngel and thats your exact problem
22:49 RealBadAngel "screenshot is enough" you were saying and blaming me  for a  leaks
22:49 RealBadAngel right seems to be something in the middle pal
22:52 RealBadAngel to make story short, just start to play minetest
23:00 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/F7v0Z2fG3veN.png
23:00 RealBadAngel just make something close to that
23:00 RealBadAngel its made on skyblock server
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23:50 est hmmmm is the most experienced (active, can't judge all non-active ones) coder minetest has.
23:51 hmmmm what
23:51 est aren't you
23:51 est to my judgement, you know most about c/c++, and how to do things with it
23:51 hmmmm i don't know
23:51 hmmmm i wouldn't call myself active tbh
23:52 est you are more active than kahrl and Zeno.
23:52 est who also know lotsa stuff
23:52 est (right now)
23:53 hmmmm i've been around longer than zeno but not kahrl ^^

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