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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-10

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Time Nick Message
00:03 paramat left #minetest-dev
00:26 VanessaE these random segfaults are starting to get old....
00:27 VanessaE especially when they cause 20+ players to lose connection without so much as a "piss off, you've been disconnected."
00:34 VanessaE (that's twice today, I might add)
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00:36 est31 VanessaE, any stacktrace?
00:36 est31 nrz wants to make new connection protocol
00:36 est31 but that wont get into 0.4.13 I guess
00:41 VanessaE est31: not really.  the last crash produced this:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11852789/
00:42 VanessaE but that's probably not very useful
00:42 VanessaE this is a production server so I can't run it under gdb
00:43 est31 nope
00:43 est31 yea :(
00:43 est31 aren't there binary dumps or so?
00:43 est31 hmmmm has said something about them
00:43 est31 they can be analyzed later
00:54 VanessaE that's for windows I think
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02:39 VanessaE paramat:  it just occurred to me, that stairs model does not follow proper naming conventions (it should be stairs_stair.obj or similar)
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08:49 crecca hello
08:49 crecca I'm starting to learn how to develop minetest right now
08:50 crecca any tips for a new guy?
08:52 asl97 crecca: it depend on how much you know how to program
08:54 crecca asl97: I have 0 experience with programming games
08:55 asl97 any kind of programming knowledge
08:55 crecca asl97: I have some experience with C and Lua; I've never used C++ for anything serious
08:55 crecca although I know the basics of C++
08:57 asl97 i would suggest to stick to making mods then
08:57 crecca I'm savvy with GNU/Linux, bash etc.
08:58 crecca I probably will, but I'd like to at least understand how the core works
08:59 asl97 the basic tip i got for mods is don't try anything too fancy (ie: eye candy stuff, eg: animation, movement, etc etc)
09:00 crecca okay, yeah sounds sane
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09:30 crecca is there is a way to display the value of pitch, just like there is a value of yaw, when you hit f5?
09:34 asl97 crecca: you can use a hub or something, although you can't show it in the debug menu thing (f5), you might want to see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658
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09:34 crecca well, that didn't take long, my computer crashed
09:35 crecca if there was any response to the pitch question, I missed it
09:35 asl97 crecca: you can use a hub or something, although you can't show it in the debug menu thing (f5), you might want to see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2658
09:37 asl97 the only hub example i know is the landrush owner hub, see https://github.com/Bremaweb/​landrush/blob/master/hud.lua
09:37 crecca ok
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12:55 crecca I don't quite understand what are the units used for example in formspec's for X, Y, Width, and Height
12:57 crecca If I say formspec = size[10,12], what is the size of it in pixels?
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13:38 VanessaE crecca: it's a measure of inventory slots
13:39 VanessaE 2 means the feature will be 2 slots wide or positioned 2 slots from the edge of the formspec.
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14:28 crecca and what is the size of a slot? What determines it?
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16:02 paramat hi sfan5, Tesseract, please could you comment on game#562 and possibly choose between Gambit's original and asl97's most recent edit?
16:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/562 -- Default: New ice texture by Gambit by paramat
16:06 Tesseract Difinitely asl97's one.
16:08 paramat thanks
16:08 Tesseract It looks like he made two though.  The first one is the one I like.
16:09 paramat oh, that's the one i don't like =)
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16:09 paramat also i'll push game#563 soon, fix for recent stair mesh commit
16:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/563 -- Improved stairs model, v2 by gravgun
16:10 paramat oddly i prefer Gambit's original despite it's slight grid effect
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16:58 nrzkt will push a little coding style fix in porting in a few minute
17:10 nrzkt pushed
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18:07 est31 RealBadAngel, the nodedef changes in #2897 need documentation
18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2897 -- Fix relief mapping issues by RealBadAngel
18:07 est31 otherwise it looks ok
18:08 nrzkt +1
18:09 nrzkt Why 0.4.13 and not 0.5
18:10 nrzkt minetest team has done huge improvements, a real step is passed :)
18:10 Calinou yeah, I hate this versioning scheme
18:10 Calinou we deserve to go 0.5 somewhen
18:10 Calinou we've been in 0.4 long enough
18:10 rubenwardy client side modding soon
18:10 rubenwardy that's a good reason for 0.5
18:10 nrzkt we don't release 0.4 serie here, so huge improvements
18:10 Calinou no, that'll be 0.6
18:10 Calinou or even 1.0
18:11 rubenwardy hmmmm says he's working on it now
18:11 nrzkt SRP, minimap, huge cleanup
18:11 Calinou minimap is enough to go to 0.5
18:11 nrzkt yeah i agree for a 0.6 with client side moding
18:11 hmmmm it's not 0.5.0
18:11 hmmmm it's 1.0.0
18:11 hmmmm we already decided on the next major version number a long time ago
18:11 nrzkt who ?
18:11 nrzkt link ?
18:11 hmmmm ...
18:12 nrzkt why not 1.0.0 but source :)
18:12 hmmmm I don't have links to things on hand
18:12 nrzkt i think we should get on 0.5.0 and then 1.0.0 with client side moding and enet
18:12 hmmmm in any case, 1.0.0 will allow us to use the patch version number for its stated purpose
18:12 nrzkt i will get some time to add enet implementation :p
18:13 nrzkt every dev wants this, then i will add this, and rewrite session system
18:13 rubenwardy Problem is that people link 1.x numbers with a completed game
18:14 nrzkt 1.0.0 should mean minetest is mature
18:14 nrzkt not minetest is finished:p
18:14 rubenwardy yeah
18:14 nrzkt look at World of Warcraft: 5.2.0
18:14 rubenwardy ofc software is never completed
18:14 nrzkt World of Warcraft is not finished :p
18:15 nrzkt major = huge content improvement
18:15 nrzkt when we will be on 1.x.x series
18:15 nrzkt atm it's minor :(
18:16 Calinou <rubenwardy> Problem is that people link 1.x numbers with a completed game
18:16 Calinou Problem is that people think 0.x is a worthless buggy game
18:17 Calinou imagine Firefox being at 0.8
18:17 nrzkt it's not a buggy same, it's just slow sometimes :p
18:17 Calinou fast enough for my use: Hunger Games :P
18:18 nrzkt :p
18:20 nrzkt if we write changelog, i think we could say it's a 0.5.0 not a simple patch for 0.4 series
18:21 nrzkt there are too many changes to define it's a simple 0.4 series patch
18:21 nrzkt network rework, mapgen v7 & v5 improvements, SRP, minimap, new API calls
18:21 est31 if you convince everybody, we can do 0.5.0
18:22 nrzkt look at the list above
18:22 est31 but agreed, all reviews of minetest I see outside claim its "like minecraft alpha" or "a good proof of concept, but far away from complete game"
18:23 nrzkt can you say it's a simple 0.4.X series patch
18:23 Calinou you can often safely ignore game reviews :P
18:23 est31 also dont forget texture overriding, now texture packs have real freedom
18:24 est31 one german person has reviewed minetest actually positively
18:24 nrzkt texture overriding
18:24 est31 thats a recent one
18:24 nrzkt if we do the changelog it dont looks like a simple patch, it's a new minetest :)
18:24 nrzkt i should build minetest on android to do some tests too because nobody test it since 2 months :p
18:25 est31 well its the version where you and me have the first real contributions
18:25 crecca my review of minetest is that it is a very good game
18:25 crecca there
18:25 est31 I think Wayward_One does android builds
18:26 Wayward_One I do indeed
18:26 nrzkt no est31, hmmmm do some good contributions, not very new features, but cool stabilized features. And RealBadAngel have great ideas (but i needs some improvements sometimes :p)
18:26 nrzkt i have the FreeBSD builder and the play store key :p
18:26 nrzkt sorry, Debian builder
18:26 nrzkt :p
18:26 nrzkt (it's a VM under BHyve on FreeBSD :p)
18:27 nrzkt do you think i should release an intermediate release on Google Play Store or wait for reelase ?
18:27 est31 we should wait first I think
18:27 nrzkt okay
18:28 nrzkt i think have some Google Play intermediate steps could be good for Play Store image
18:29 Wayward_One nrzkt: if you're interested: https://forum.minetest.net/viewto​pic.php?f=42&amp;p=183982#p183982
18:29 nrzkt ty Wayward_One but i have the build process on my machine :p
18:30 Wayward_One Oh, ok :)
18:30 est31 13e100
18:30 est31 sounds like google
18:31 nrzkt 13e100 ?
18:33 est31 look at the link
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18:44 nrzkt i see :)
18:44 nrzkt i should go
18:44 nrzkt have a nice day :)
18:51 hmmmm the reasoning behind skipping to 1.0.0 is that we'll be using version numbering the proper way
18:51 hmmmm nowhere is it implied that minetest is a finished game, nor do we imply that minetest is a game
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18:55 hmmmm in any case I'd rather that minimap gets good before release
18:56 nrzkt +1
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19:13 hmmmm how about this for a new rule
19:14 hmmmm you're not allowed to merge a new feature until you have all the bugs caused by your previously added features fixed
19:18 est31 I think discussing about rules is a waste of time
19:19 est31 too much bureocracy kills projects
19:20 est31 to the 1,0 vs 0.5 discussion: i totally dont care
19:20 est31 I just want a feature freeze week together with a release somewhen next month
19:21 est31 nrz should fix their bugs yes but you should perhaps confront him more directly with that.
19:21 hmmmm i have..
19:22 hmmmm fixing what you started should be common sense, it shouldn't be a rule
19:22 hmmmm but it seems the way things work around here, if it's not a rule set in stone, it gets abused
19:23 est31 why not discuss about what to do till 0.4.13
19:23 est31 certainly we have to get minimap ready
19:23 hmmmm bugfixing
19:23 hmmmm isn't there a list of blockers?
19:23 est31 there is
19:24 est31 https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/milestones/0.4.13
19:24 hmmmm there ya go
19:24 est31 but it only tracks things that have a github issue
19:25 hmmmm how about that notorious texture modifier bug
19:25 est31 ?
19:25 est31 has it a #number
19:25 hmmmm nope
19:25 hmmmm not in that list anyway
19:26 est31 so add it then, tell how to reproduce
19:26 est31 make a #number so that the world knows about it
19:26 est31 or better yet propose a fix
19:26 hmmmm ask vanessae
19:27 * VanessaE hides
19:27 hmmmm you don't honestly believe that I'm just pulling this stuff from my own ass, do you...?
19:27 est31 ?
19:28 est31 any news about the "render regression"
19:28 hmmmm no
19:29 VanessaE hmmmm: which texture modifier bug?  the only one I can think of is that allegedly texture modifiers are iterated in realtime ont he client, instead of caching the result at the time of creation.  Also, allegedly they create lots of extra, interrim textures that are never cleaned up.
19:29 VanessaE (ask RealBadAngel for better details on that)
19:29 hmmmm you know the one that spits out that big error with the "invalid texture modifier ^[<about 10 lines of junk here"
19:30 VanessaE OH
19:30 VanessaE that's a serialization error
19:30 VanessaE usually followed or preceded by tons of "\u0000", enough to fill the screen
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19:30 VanessaE in which case ask nrz :)
19:30 VanessaE I think that one DOES have an issue already
19:31 est31 "big error printed" something
19:32 est31 #1218
19:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1218 -- huge error shouldn't be printed in game
19:32 est31 thats it
19:32 VanessaE happens a lot on my Survival server for some reason
19:32 VanessaE that's the one
19:33 est31 I guess thats "general entity buginess"
19:34 est31 perhaps they need to be rewritten, dunno
19:35 est31 I mean we also have this "ghost entity" thing
19:36 VanessaE that reminds me, were you able to reproduce that locally with the VE-C map?
19:36 est31 yes but I gave up after those digilines deprecation warnings
19:36 est31 they spammed the chat
19:36 VanessaE well, I turn the deprecation warnings off in the config
19:37 est31 thats not the way to go
19:37 est31 they should be followed not ignored
19:37 VanessaE I know.
19:37 est31 otherwise development is dead
19:37 VanessaE but they're stuff I can't really do anything about so I turn off the notifications
19:38 est31 if not even these simple rules can be followed, how do we want to give even more responsibility to mods
19:38 VanessaE plus they just plain spam the logs with no rate limiting
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19:45 est31 about areastore serialisation, I think thats a topic after 0.4.13 (I call it that way until we've found consensus on the new name)
19:46 est31 it should be done with general data storage in the map.
19:47 est31 we should for example also store this envargs stuff there
19:48 VanessaE only as long as there's a graceful way to recover from a corrupt store
19:49 VanessaE graceful enough would be if the player can simply delete the corrupted storage file and the game just re-creates everything from some sane defaults -- but not if that means the player e.g. loses their inventory
19:51 est31 thats what I think should be improved here
19:51 est31 databases have methods to prevent corruption
19:55 VanessaE true, but you can't detect corruption in a database if the corruption was in the source data before it was inserted.
19:55 VanessaE that's more what I'm concerned with
19:56 est31 we only insert data we serialize ourselves from sane defaults
19:56 VanessaE ideally sure :)
19:56 VanessaE you mentioned the envargs issue, which I took to mean the env_meta.txt file.  Sometimes that file gets blanked out and the engine throws stupid errors.
19:56 est31 so, thats os fault isnt it
19:57 VanessaE I doubt it
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19:59 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/1a1774a1051790ef85b1bd8b047ac45a3676b5d6
19:59 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/8eb272cea38325f963c521ecfa7b927a563f8509
20:01 est31 hmmmm, https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/8eb272cea38325f963c521ecfa7b927a563f8509#​diff-b5b39c3a29359759ac6f0293dc37a453R98
20:01 est31 for me that line is 96 chars long
20:05 est31 the misc minor fixes thing has my +1
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20:10 hmmmm are you an 8-space tab user
20:11 est31 yes
20:11 hmmmm well there you go
20:12 est31 github is, too
20:12 hmmmm perhaps we should clarify
20:12 est31 (per default)
20:12 hmmmm 80 columns at 4 space indents
20:13 hmmmm hold on a minute
20:13 hmmmm why is all of that code inside of a *header* file?!
20:14 hmmmm the rule is that non-template and non-inline code cannot be over 4 lines in a header
20:14 est31 is it
20:15 est31 no the rule is even more strict
20:15 est31 3 lines :)
20:15 hmmmm oh
20:16 hmmmm well yeah 3 lines is good too
20:16 est31 or the rules aren't clear at this point
20:16 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/Cod​e_style_guidelines#Classes
20:16 hmmmm not all of them are written down
20:16 est31 they should however
20:16 hmmmm okay
20:17 hmmmm so what should it be, 3 or 4 lines?
20:17 hmmmm the limit i mean
20:17 est31 rules that arent written down cant be followed
20:17 est31 idc honestly, but 4
20:17 est31 and the flash commit has my +1 too
20:18 est31 and I think they qualify as small enough to only require one reviewer
20:19 hmmmm for all you know the flash one might cause unintended consequences
20:19 hmmmm but I did test it and it seems to work fine
20:20 hmmmm so F me if there was more to it that I messed up :)
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20:30 kilbith hi, someone can care of this minor fix please : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2882
20:30 kilbith just need another +1
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20:39 H-H-H lets see if this clean build of 0.4.12 tag has sound issues on android
20:43 hmmmm VanessaE:  do you have a link to the serialization error issue?
20:44 hmmmm also I'm gonna see what I can do about the statically stored object bugas
20:44 VanessaE [07-10 15:32] -ShadowBot/#minetest-dev- https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1218 -- huge error shouldn't be printed in game
20:44 hmmmm buggaz
20:44 hmmmm oh thanks
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20:52 VanessaE you're gonna have a field day with those entities bugs :)
20:54 H-H-H wow lol somethings really screwed with my system lol just tested a home built 0.4.12 android build and i have no text anywhere and the buttons dont respond :|
20:54 hmmmm H-H-H, do you have a non-english locale?
20:54 H-H-H i can however build and run master fine :|
20:54 hmmmm so the problem doesn't exist in the current master branch?
20:55 H-H-H nope im testing it on the same phone that runs master fine and they are both built the same way on same pc with same os
20:56 H-H-H its something wierd with my setup as if i build master it runs but sound is fubared but i can install a prebuilt one and sound is fine
20:56 hmmmm you might be missing development headers for openal or something
20:57 H-H-H yeah thats what im wondering
21:00 H-H-H hmmm i have latest headers from arch
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21:05 H-H-H est13 have u done an android build on arch 32bit
21:05 est31 no but f-droid crowd do this regularly
21:06 est31 H-H-H, still your sound issue?
21:06 H-H-H yeah its really bugging me :|
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21:08 H-H-H wondered if maybe i had bad openal headers or something hmmmm also suggested this but i have the latest and greatest package
21:15 crazyR hi guys, just a thought.. would it be possible for someone to add an event.value this would return formspec list value... that way we would not need to keep a table of items to refrence against. hope that mmakes sense
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21:33 VanessaE bbl
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22:22 kilbith i'm getting heavily spammed by the same warning while compiling (arch linux) : http://pastie.org/10285473
22:23 sfan5 just ignore that
22:23 kilbith oh, ok
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23:03 paramat thanks for the damage bugfix
23:06 * paramat jumps in the water
23:08 * paramat jumps off a cliff
23:10 paramat woohoo!
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23:20 paramat now pushing game#563
23:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/563 -- Improved stairs model, v2 by gravgun
23:24 paramat complete
23:51 est31 joined #minetest-dev
23:53 est31 btw hmmmm what about this  NO_MAP_LOCK_REQUIRED stuff
23:53 est31 is that needed at all and if yes why

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