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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-11

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Time Nick Message
00:02 est31 anyone knows whether rubenwardy is around
00:02 est31 I wonder what the line limit was on the lua_api.txt
00:03 est31 also they should read through my doc for grammatical errors
00:08 hmmmm est31:  kind of
00:09 hmmmm NP_MAP_LOCK_REQUIRED is a macro that we add to APIs that don't actually access the map or environment
00:09 hmmmm CURRENTLY at this very moment, it does nothing but profiles those api calls
00:09 hmmmm but that it could do in the future is unlock and relock the map during its execution
00:10 est31 to allow ... what?
00:10 hmmmm if you write APIs that don't need to be envlocked and don't add that, we'll start to lose an accurate picture of how much time could be recovered by using opportunistic locking
00:11 est31 is the busy part of the mapgen the copying to the map? I guess mapgen itself isnt locked, is it?
00:19 paramat left #minetest-dev
00:24 est31 ok #2898 is ready for review
00:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2898 -- Add AreaStore data structure by est31
00:42 sloantothebone joined #minetest-dev
00:43 asl97 est31: `takes up ~ 80% CPU`,  this is before or after?
00:44 sloantothebone joined #minetest-dev
00:45 asl97 i am guessing before, if i am right, it is missing an after
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02:02 hmmmm i'll have to take a look
02:04 hmmmm wow @ the CAO code
02:04 hmmmm magic constants ahoy
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03:23 est31 what about this http://pasteboard.co/1RVN4OiJ.png
03:23 est31 why is the mese so wrong here?
03:23 est31 is it the texture?
03:23 * est31 looks at the src
03:27 est31 ah its supposed to be a "light source"
03:27 est31 thats why
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04:45 hmmmm so, was there any research into what the bottleneck with the current udp protocl is?
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05:07 kaeza what would be the best way to implement "dynamic" items (see http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2015-07-11#i_4316976 ) currently I intend use a special marker in the metadata which if found loads the rest as JSON to get some properties
05:08 hmmmm sounds... inefficient
05:11 hmmmm that's the way that meta_set_nodedef works though, isn't it?
05:12 est31 we have no json for these data, do we?
05:12 est31 hmmmm, what do you mean with bottlenecks?
05:12 hmmmm est31, the whole reason why people want to use enet is because it offers better transfer speeds
05:12 kaeza I also thought about using a new packet to set this data explicitly, but not sure how to "sync" or get the "id" (if that's even possible) of the itemstack so it can be sent to client for modification
05:13 hmmmm kaeza, if you are talking about setting the item description and such for individual itemstacks, then what you're planning on doing seems to be the way to go about it
05:14 est31 doesnt that work already
05:14 est31 I think Tenplus1's books have that feature
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05:14 kaeza hmmmm, I'd also want to modify icon and possibly the capabilities; you think this would be sensible?
05:15 hmmmm it'd be really slow
05:15 hmmmm it all depends on how often these attributes actually need to be accessed
05:15 hmmmm when I say really slow, I mean really slow for something so mundane
05:17 kaeza it looks like it would be a tad slow without some kind of caching which will probably get a bit complex :/
05:17 hmmmm this is primarily why i don't like the idea behind meta set nodedef
05:18 hmmmm (which, as you might predict, has performance problems)
05:18 est31 ^
05:19 est31 we can have meta set nodedef if some conditions are met
05:19 hmmmm maybe it'd be doable with just the metadata part
05:19 hmmmm like have special "control" metadata fields have some kind of prefix
05:19 hmmmm __description = "foobarbaz"
05:19 hmmmm i.e. skip the json
05:20 est31 so have a "light" approach
05:20 kaeza hmmmm, problem is itemstack meta is a simple string, not a hashtable/map/whatever
05:20 hmmmm a std::map lookup is quite fast... parsing and loading json, then doing even more parsing and loading and lookups, all for some mundane detail like a string of text to be displayed on a tooltip is sorta dumb
05:20 hmmmm oh that's not good
05:20 est31 e.g. you have a certain string in the nodedef, and the mod gives a function that converts the string into a nodedef
05:20 hmmmm is it possible to change the way itemstack meta works without breaking compatibility?
05:20 kaeza hence the JSON hack
05:20 hmmmm right... don't :(
05:20 hmmmm that makes baby jesus cry
05:21 hmmmm why not have the single "string" metadata be some kind of default key
05:21 hmmmm like a blank string
05:21 hmmmm so item_metadata[""] == "the_metadata_the_way_it_is_right_now"
05:21 hmmmm and then item_metadata["__description"] == "custom itemstack description here."
05:21 est31 so the engine then relies on the fact that the function has same results for same input
05:22 hmmmm and then expose the keys to the lua api somehow in some reverse-compatible manner
05:22 hmmmm ?
05:22 hmmmm does that work??
05:22 est31 ?
05:22 hmmmm this may be just as simple as the json version of the idea FYI
05:23 est31 do we even send over metadata to the client
05:23 kaeza the itemstack serialization would have to be changed (unless I read that wrong)
05:23 hmmmm i don't doubt it
05:23 est31 well thats doable
05:23 hmmmm this is a worthwhile change
05:24 hmmmm it's a crappy inefficient interface to begin with; fixing it is not something to hold back on
05:24 est31 ^
05:24 kaeza est31, yes (inventory.cpp:127)
05:24 kaeza eh L 149
05:25 est31 so why do we have to change serialisation?
05:26 est31 only for descriptions?
05:26 hmmmm what about images
05:26 hmmmm name
05:26 est31 if I read it right, its only a client side change?
05:26 hmmmm it's not
05:27 est31 why
05:27 est31 you can already access the metadata on the server cant you
05:27 est31 its sent to the client
05:27 est31 so then the only thing that needs to be done is let the client parse the metadata
05:28 est31 and if we see "description" as key, we take the according key.
05:30 est31 or am I wrong
05:44 hmmmm itemstack metadata currently only exists as an amorphous string
05:44 hmmmm the idea is to change it to send key/value pairs
05:45 est31 ah I see
05:47 est31 lets do this thing
05:47 est31 set_metadata(name, value)
05:48 est31 sets value for name
05:48 est31 set_metadata(string) is legacy
05:48 est31 and will set it for some legacy key
05:48 est31 get_metadata() returns that value for the legacy key too
05:49 est31 and get_metadata(key) returns it for the given key
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06:12 RealBadAngel hi guys
06:13 RealBadAngel est31, am i right that you have mentioned lately saving data to the database?
06:13 est31 yes
06:13 RealBadAngel imho thats very crucial
06:14 RealBadAngel have you saw mudlet db code for that?
06:15 est31 no
06:16 RealBadAngel http://wiki.mudlet.org/w/Manual:​Lua_Functions#Database_Functions
06:17 RealBadAngel such thing would be perfect
06:19 RealBadAngel dont you think? :)
06:21 est31 hrmm
06:21 est31 I had something higher level in mind
06:21 est31 where you just have a key value store
06:22 RealBadAngel this is transparent, you store tables here
06:23 RealBadAngel thats way better when you have to store mods per player data
06:23 RealBadAngel like ui's waypoints for example
06:24 RealBadAngel btw key storage is already done in fm
06:26 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:26 RealBadAngel also, wheres mtgame team?
06:27 RealBadAngel is only paramat active there?
06:33 est31 no he isnt mtgame member
06:33 est31 not yet
06:34 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/minetest_game_Development
06:34 est31 "
06:34 est31 Note: To prevent problems with the development like before minetest_game is maintained by only five people (BlockMen, sfan5, nore, PilzAdam, ShadowNinja).
06:34 est31 "
06:38 * VanessaE peeks in
06:57 hmmmm well
06:57 hmmmm I've been looking at ActiveObjectMessages and I can't see yet *where* a corrupted datastring bug might occur
06:58 est31 Activeobjects are like canaries for lower level network bugs
06:59 est31 because they are the only message i think that actually reads the packet size
06:59 hmmmm yeah, a lot of the existing network code stinks.
07:00 hmmmm i would really love to give it The Treatment(tm) one day
07:00 est31 there has been a bug for example where the packet size got larger, creating tons of active object errors in infostream
07:00 est31 only noticed it after ive turned infostream on to test my srp patch
07:00 hmmmm :/
07:00 hmmmm a lot of errors are going completely unnoticed
07:01 VanessaE hmmmm: no... not the TREATMENT.  Anything but THAT!
07:01 est31 thats why im against hiding errors from chat
07:01 est31 its like not building these tiny lamps into your car
07:01 VanessaE est31: the problem with letting errors into the chat is the same problem with not trimming ginormous chat messages - all that text filling the screen will kill the client FPS, sometimes hanging it up entirely.
07:02 hmmmm this is just me, but I sort of doubt this has to do with (de)serialization errors
07:02 hmmmm look at handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages
07:02 est31 #2636
07:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2636 -- Verbose logging bloated regression
07:04 hmmmm so it creates the istringstream, then goes into this loop where it iterates until it runs out of data to consume
07:04 hmmmm first thing it does is checks if eof, so data with 0 length can't cause an error
07:04 hmmmm next, the ID is read
07:05 hmmmm ahh okay nevermind
07:05 hmmmm this is the problem right here
07:05 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so are you going to do something with mistaken "512" values in minimap?
07:05 RealBadAngel you have messed it badly
07:05 hmmmm tell me how
07:05 hmmmm if there's a bug I'll definitely fix it
07:05 hmmmm no questions asked
07:05 RealBadAngel minimap size and image size are two different cases
07:06 hmmmm well
07:06 RealBadAngel image size is meant to be 512x512 and downscaled
07:06 RealBadAngel but mapsize is max 256
07:06 hmmmm so you're saying there are two cases were the 512s should be different constants?
07:06 RealBadAngel yes
07:06 hmmmm maybe you shouldn'tve put in magic numbers like that which can be confused
07:07 RealBadAngel indeed
07:07 hmmmm like what is "512"? is it the number of stars in the sky?
07:07 RealBadAngel i will remember that lesson
07:07 hmmmm sorry about the bug.
07:07 hmmmm please, when I give feedback in a code review, listen to it
07:07 hmmmm rather than have me do it and possibly do it wrong
07:07 RealBadAngel when images are created ive picked 512x512 image size
07:08 RealBadAngel folks are using big screens so having highres image base is good
07:08 hmmmm est31:  okay, so handleCommand_ActiveObjectMessages() seems to be a potential problem.  you were right, it was a low-level serialization handling issue
07:09 RealBadAngel but map size is max 256x256 because of the engine limit
07:09 hmmmm est31:  I ruled it out earlier because I mistakenly thought the remaining data was checked /before/ the length parameter was extracted
07:09 RealBadAngel it simply doesnt load enough blocks to fill that area
07:13 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/8804c47e59b550ec9a533de662f086af623d68c1
07:13 hmmmm jesus.. christ..
07:17 hmmmm and this
07:18 hmmmm what the FUCK is this supposed to do
07:18 hmmmm u32 msgsize = src.size();
07:18 hmmmm if (msgsize > 0xFFFFFFFF) {
07:18 hmmmm msgsize = 0xFFFFFFFF;
07:18 hmmmm }
07:18 hmmmm oh my god
07:18 hmmmm no.  nerzhul does not get to add enet
07:18 est31 that has been in before
07:18 hmmmm i am going to get people mad at me no doubt
07:18 est31 he copy pasted
07:18 est31 but yes horrible
07:18 hmmmm exactly
07:18 hmmmm he copy pasted
07:18 hmmmm it's like he doesn't give a shit at all
07:19 hmmmm this is some of the most critical code to minetest
07:19 hmmmm there's no care, no consideration, code is flung around like monkeys fling poop
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07:19 hmmmm some kind of bug caused by my code?
07:20 hmmmm add a couple of absolutely useless error handlers
07:20 hmmmm that'll fix the problem
07:20 RealBadAngel hmmmm, dont be too strict, mt is not a nasa project ;)
07:20 hmmmm lookit
07:20 crecca :D
07:20 hmmmm i've tried to not be too strict and you know where it gets us?
07:21 RealBadAngel jokin
07:21 crecca not to the moon!
07:21 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/0.4.10/src/client.cpp#L2086
07:21 hmmmm a shitheap of regressions and bugs so large, that nobody can make any meaningful progress because we're too busy playing perpetual clean up
07:21 est31 here it makes even sense
07:21 est31 because its size_t
07:21 RealBadAngel but seriously, when dozens of folks have messed with a function such situations will happen no matter what
07:22 RealBadAngel and each one next will say "wtf"
07:23 hmmmm and we can't let that happen
07:23 hmmmm that needs to end - as it stands right now I'm embarassed to have my name associated with this project
07:23 hmmmm there's no quality
07:23 hmmmm the only thing worse than minetest is freeminer
07:23 RealBadAngel lol
07:24 RealBadAngel actually proller made a few good things we dont have
07:24 hmmmm .. i think i'll pass
07:24 RealBadAngel please no
07:25 RealBadAngel was just jokin
07:25 RealBadAngel quality is good
07:25 RealBadAngel and youre right person to make the pressure on us
07:26 hmmmm i don't want to be required to put pressure on everybody else
07:26 hmmmm everybody else should have the same attitude
07:26 RealBadAngel should but will never have
07:26 RealBadAngel we are not the same
07:26 hmmmm right, because of the kinds of coders this project attracts
07:26 hmmmm it's just a silly game
07:26 hmmmm silly kids play and code the game
07:27 hmmmm it's broken?  who cares, it's just a game
07:27 RealBadAngel we are not silly
07:27 RealBadAngel and thats not nasa project
07:27 RealBadAngel its our hobby
07:27 hmmmm it certainly seems that way when a user encounters some retarded error caused by not using any care whatsoever in writing code and then decides that "lol this minetest thing sucks.  gonna go try out terasology"
07:28 hmmmm there are many minecraft clones out there
07:28 est31 there are many people in the minetest modding world who only know lua and would wish to contribute to the c++ code too, but dont have the knowledge to do so
07:28 RealBadAngel so we shall learn from it
07:28 hmmmm :(
07:28 hmmmm lots of C++ beginners
07:28 RealBadAngel im learning from your comments to my  code
07:28 RealBadAngel really
07:29 est31 me too, I've learnt alot from you hmmmm.
07:29 hmmmm :(
07:29 hmmmm jesus christ what kinds of coders do we have on this project
07:29 hmmmm oh well
07:29 hmmmm i'll turn you into C++ machines
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07:30 RealBadAngel hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2897/f​iles#diff-8b1361a90a460ea33ecf3db026997f8aR2077
07:30 RealBadAngel see? :)
07:30 hmmmm :)
07:31 RealBadAngel thats all because of you ;)
07:31 hmmmm don't mean to be naggy but
07:31 RealBadAngel yes?
07:32 hmmmm first of all, "bool normalmap_present = tile->normal_texture ? true : false;" isn't necessary
07:32 hmmmm you can make that
07:32 hmmmm bool normalmap_present = tile->normal_texture
07:32 hmmmm or if you want to make the conversion to from a pointer type to bool explicit, "bool normalmap_present = !!tile->normal_texture;
07:33 hmmmm then, to add a single character to a std::string, you could use push_back()
07:33 est31 interesting trick
07:33 est31 the !! one
07:33 RealBadAngel pushback is not as obvious as +=
07:33 hmmmm so you can turn tname += normalmap_present ? strue : sfalse;  into   tname.push_back(normalmap_present ? '1' : '0');
07:34 hmmmm or if you want to feel extra clever
07:34 hmmmm tname.push_back('0' + normalmap_present);
07:34 RealBadAngel that is what i mean
07:35 RealBadAngel from just taking a look one wont know what the code does
07:35 RealBadAngel too tricky
07:37 est31 '0' + normalmap_present is bad style agree
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07:38 RealBadAngel so, hmmmm dont push that ;)
07:38 hmmmm well i did say, if you're feeling extra clever
07:38 hmmmm being clever is not necessarily a good thing
07:39 RealBadAngel anyway, push for me feels like using a stack
07:39 hmmmm it's the only way to append a single char onto a std::string
07:39 hmmmm append() only has a std::string variant
07:39 hmmmm and operator+ is a wrapper for append
07:39 RealBadAngel += "a" also appends one
07:40 hmmmm i suppose so, it converts that "a" into a std::string and does a lot of other unnecessary things too though
07:41 RealBadAngel but gain in speed is not worth it imho
07:42 RealBadAngel i can fight for changes that can save us lotsa time
07:43 RealBadAngel but not such small things, that have impact next to nothing
07:43 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
07:44 RealBadAngel hmmmm, other thing. how about client side lua?
07:44 RealBadAngel are you doing something in this direction?
07:44 hmmmm what about it
07:44 hmmmm yes
07:44 RealBadAngel cool
07:44 hmmmm i am working on a bunch of bugs then going to start on client side lua
07:44 RealBadAngel we definitely need it
07:45 est31 how again can i make a for loop in lua that does for(i = 0; i < n; i++)
07:45 RealBadAngel when im done with current shaders issues, i do plan to work on drawtypes
07:46 RealBadAngel i plan to make wires, tubes, signs and terminals
07:46 RealBadAngel all those things that make number of nodedefs grow insanely
07:46 hmmmm oh god
07:47 hmmmm NetworkPacket has a huge security hole in it
07:47 RealBadAngel can we get a virus through it? ;)
07:48 hmmmm well, you can definitely cause a crash
07:48 est31 thats category "security" then
07:48 Calinou est31, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lua+for+loop&amp;ia=qa :)
07:48 * RealBadAngel can almost see buch of chineese hackers exploiting that hole to get control over all mt servers in the world ;)
07:49 RealBadAngel brb, going out for shopping
07:49 hmmmm :/
07:50 hmmmm honestly I'd rather rewrite NetworkPacket than deal with all of these security problems
07:51 hmmmm the entire thing is a giant security flaw
07:51 hmmmm checkReadOffset() is cute, but it doesn't really help the case where a read of a size is requested larger than there is data available
07:52 hmmmm and then all of the string functions/operators don't even have checkReadOffset()
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08:10 est31 ~ping
08:10 ShadowBot pong
08:10 est31 both kwolekr and RBA have ping timeout?
08:10 est31 and no netsplit?
08:11 est31 w31rd ...
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09:16 VanessaE what'r the odds? oOoooooOOoooOOOooOOO
09:16 VanessaE :)
09:16 Krock huh?
09:17 VanessaE late response to est31
09:18 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
09:47 RealBadAngel i am rising the PR once again
09:47 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1651
09:47 est31 wow thats old
09:47 RealBadAngel how can it be that modern game does not have a music
09:47 RealBadAngel are all devs deaf?
09:48 RealBadAngel we can use decent free of charge music source
09:50 RealBadAngel atm, since always, minetest seems like being developed by a bunch of deaf guys
09:51 RealBadAngel "farting" issue when flyin even proves that
09:52 RealBadAngel hmmm, intel cpu, and others just do not care about sounds
09:53 RealBadAngel but folks that download our game do
09:53 RealBadAngel we are half naked
09:53 crecca there is also large room for improvement with sound effects
09:54 RealBadAngel ofc there is
09:54 RealBadAngel but stubborns like PilzAdam are blocking everything
09:54 crecca the sound of nature should be the music in-game
09:55 RealBadAngel mt is able to play client cached music since always
09:55 RealBadAngel it doesnt even have to be sent by server
09:56 RealBadAngel i cannot see any single fucking reason we are not using that
09:56 RealBadAngel except for PilzAdam's being stubborn
09:56 crecca stubborn in what way? what does he say about it?
09:56 RealBadAngel show me single fucking game without music
09:57 RealBadAngel even sudoku on mobile has music
09:57 RealBadAngel crecca, he just refuses it
09:59 RealBadAngel not the particular score, but using music at all
09:59 crecca menu music can work but in most games it doesn't and sounds awful
09:59 crecca but if it works it's worth it
09:59 RealBadAngel have you heard the scores i proposed?
09:59 crecca good example of good menu music is worms
09:59 crecca I'm about to
10:00 crecca but where can I find it?
10:00 est31 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RealBadAng​el/minetest/menu_music/sounds/main_menu.ogg
10:01 RealBadAngel thats fuckin right
10:02 crecca It's a nice score
10:02 crecca although bit serious
10:02 RealBadAngel this is imho piece that promises chalenghe, fun and mystery
10:03 crecca but sets a mood for medieval themes, with those horns and big drums
10:03 RealBadAngel we are serious
10:03 RealBadAngel so theme should be
10:03 RealBadAngel its a bit cinematic, and i love that way
10:04 RealBadAngel anyway, that guy have produced hundreds of pieces for freely usage
10:05 RealBadAngel most of them are decent
10:05 crecca yeah it should be cinematic, evoke images of some story going on, but minetest have many different themes depending how you play
10:05 RealBadAngel we are just dumb not using them
10:05 crecca it is a sandbox after all
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10:05 crecca after hearing this music you feel obliged to build a castle :D
10:05 RealBadAngel above was picked for main menu only
10:06 crecca but it is not all-medieval, only a little bit
10:06 crecca i think it should be a little bit medieval, a little bit electronic, a little bit field recording...
10:07 RealBadAngel i will make a repo now
10:07 RealBadAngel hold on
10:07 crecca descent (old game, if you can remember it) also had good score
10:08 crecca cinematic yes, but choosing a music for a game is more difficult than for  a movie, imho
10:08 VanessaE RealBadAngel: regarding issue 1328, you should add something indicating why you've closed it.
10:08 est31 #1328
10:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1328 -- Add 3D torches by BlockMen
10:08 VanessaE I was avoiding that...
10:09 est31 I wanted a clickable link
10:09 est31 still thinking that 2d torches are stupid
10:10 RealBadAngel est31, VanessaE these were outdated
10:10 VanessaE ok
10:10 RealBadAngel extruded ones are way better
10:10 est31 but need more polygons, no?
10:10 RealBadAngel extruded are animated
10:11 RealBadAngel yes they do
10:11 VanessaE RealBadAngel: homedecor "3dforniture" torches
10:11 VanessaE FAR fewer faces than would be created by extruding, and still animated nicely imho
10:11 RealBadAngel we need to pick up one way
10:12 RealBadAngel blockmen's one was wrong
10:12 RealBadAngel more like a hack than a solution
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10:13 RealBadAngel not to say we do have too many issues open
10:13 RealBadAngel ive closed a few that i can judge
10:19 kahrl_ please do not use this main_menu.ogg. If I ever rewatch kurtjmac's season 4 intro, I don't want to be reminded of the formspec mess that minetest's main menu is 8)
10:19 RealBadAngel kahrl_, repo of the music aviable from that guy is HUGE
10:20 RealBadAngel i am uploading now repo with selections, picked of how i feel them
10:20 kahrl_ most of the "epic" themed music is pretty overused though
10:20 RealBadAngel please hold on
10:21 RealBadAngel but anyway
10:21 RealBadAngel i am mt contributor, only app i do run is mt
10:22 RealBadAngel except for developing tools
10:22 RealBadAngel i did turned on my speakers on for the very first time since half a yr or something
10:23 RealBadAngel mt doesnt offer anything to your ears simply
10:23 RealBadAngel its a deaf game
10:23 RealBadAngel sounds used are annoying and to be skipped just
10:25 RealBadAngel theres no such situation like in mc that i was lookin for mob drop (a record) to get a piece of music and play it at my base
10:25 RealBadAngel shame on US
10:26 RealBadAngel not only lunatics but deaf lunatics :P
10:28 VanessaE on another note,
10:29 VanessaE kilbith suggested that the "lite" mode I added to Unified Inventory be used, with some polishing, as a built-in replacement for the existing inventory display.
10:29 est31 yea like no worldedit or trash buttons
10:29 VanessaE that's easily done.
10:30 kahrl_ RealBadAngel: I wasn't really serious :P I'm not against music in the main menu or the game, although I won't vote for or against particular pieces (since I would probably disable them anyway)
10:30 VanessaE the worldedit button is actually added by that mod
10:30 VanessaE the trash button is supposed to only be visible in creative mode
10:30 RealBadAngel kahrl_, one can have speaker off, or disable that
10:31 RealBadAngel but modern game without music is unacceptable at all
10:31 kahrl_ I'd disable them because music in games tends to get repetitive (except in story driven games where the music is composed to directly fit some cutscene, I guess)
10:31 kahrl_ but yeah, I guess it's expected that there is some
10:31 * est31 ^
10:31 est31 (to the first statement)
10:31 RealBadAngel kahrl_, im uploading now about 30 picked pieces of music
10:32 RealBadAngel grouped them in folders where they could fit imo
10:33 RealBadAngel its several hours of continous playtime
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10:35 RealBadAngel some of them are "peace of mind" some hardcore
10:35 VanessaE RBA: were these those tunes from...Skaven I think?  or were they from that guy who had like hundreds of tunes of various genres?
10:37 kahrl_ VanessaE: main_menu.ogg is from incompetech.com by Kevin MacLeod
10:37 VanessaE that's the latter option then :)
10:37 RealBadAngel VanessaE, no
10:37 RealBadAngel Kevin's
10:38 VanessaE yeah, that's what I meant
10:38 VanessaE couldn't remember the site
10:38 RealBadAngel hes allowing freely usage
10:39 RealBadAngel but imho when we decide to use his tunes we shall put there a link with his paypal
10:39 RealBadAngel his tunes are worth it
10:40 kahrl_ well attribution is required by the license anyway
10:40 RealBadAngel i will personally send him a few bucks for a few beers
10:40 RealBadAngel howgh
10:42 RealBadAngel 97%, should end shortly
10:43 Calinou <+RealBadAngel> hes allowing freely usage
10:43 Calinou we need a free license, more than just "free usage"
10:44 kahrl_ Calinou: it's CC-BY 3
10:44 Calinou ok
10:48 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic
10:48 kahrl_ so how is the main menu music chosen by the engine? is it a fixed file or does it depend on the chosen subgame?
10:48 RealBadAngel uploaded
10:48 RealBadAngel kahrl_, asfair i coded that games can force own scores
10:49 kahrl_ ah good
10:49 RealBadAngel so theyre able to override mt main one
10:50 kahrl_ I don't think the engine should come with music
10:50 kahrl_ it should be part of minetest_game
10:50 RealBadAngel it should
10:50 RealBadAngel with one for where theres no game
10:50 RealBadAngel or no picked one yet
10:51 RealBadAngel our score, an embleem
10:51 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blo​b/master/server%20/Our%20Story%20Begins.mp3
10:51 RealBadAngel listen to this
10:52 RealBadAngel that could fit
10:53 kahrl_ it's nice but you can't ensure it will fit all subgames or all servers
10:54 kahrl_ 1:25
10:54 kahrl_ that's way too short
10:55 kahrl_ while the user is still browsing the server list, the music will restart and the user will get annoyed at the repetitive music
10:56 RealBadAngel there are many scores
10:57 RealBadAngel my selections are due to the feel of them
10:58 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmus​ic/blob/master/menu/The%20Descent.mp3
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10:58 RealBadAngel this is imho the best for menu
10:59 RealBadAngel i do have it in my pocket mp3 player for almost a yr
10:59 RealBadAngel and i would love it to be known as mt main score
11:00 RealBadAngel it reminds me The Rock with Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage
11:00 RealBadAngel its the same style
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11:04 kahrl_ I still don't see the problem with making it a part of minetest_game
11:05 kahrl_ people that use the official builds will have minetest_game
11:07 kahrl_ people that don't have it by default are mostly power users and can decide for themselves if they want to have it or not
11:12 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmusic/blo​b/master/server%20/Our%20Story%20Begins.mp3 could be used for world loading
11:12 RealBadAngel yes, but
11:12 RealBadAngel whos gonna vote for it?
11:12 RealBadAngel mt game team?
11:12 RealBadAngel theres no such team
11:13 RealBadAngel its dead
11:13 RealBadAngel theres only paramat active
11:13 RealBadAngel stubborn PA
11:13 RealBadAngel and no one else
11:14 RealBadAngel and even paramat is not formally a mtgame dev
11:14 kahrl_ that would be a reason to fix the issue with minetest_game development, not a reason to add music to the engine where it doesn't belong
11:14 RealBadAngel those are two separate things
11:15 RealBadAngel altough havin no active mt game team exludes such changes being merged
11:15 RealBadAngel lets put it other way
11:16 RealBadAngel im active dev for 2 yrs or so already
11:16 RealBadAngel do i deserve to hear a piece of music in my project or not?
11:16 RealBadAngel do i have to patch the sources constantly?
11:17 kahrl_ being active for that long means you should know we don't want to have content in the engine
11:17 kahrl_ instead it's defined by subgames
11:17 RealBadAngel read the patch
11:17 RealBadAngel it allows games to play music
11:18 RealBadAngel but any way, we dont have any
11:18 kahrl_ the patch is adding music to the engine
11:18 RealBadAngel and the games
11:19 RealBadAngel main score for the engine and switcheable for games
11:21 * RealBadAngel is walkin currently in desert biome: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mt​music/blob/master/desert/Tabuk.mp3
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11:23 RealBadAngel kahrl_,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYMAuPEiE8
11:24 RealBadAngel you know this?
11:26 kahrl_ no
11:26 kahrl_ but well
11:26 kahrl_ it's a medieval themed game
11:26 kahrl_ but the minetest engine has no theme
11:26 RealBadAngel its a piece that i love since 15 yrs
11:27 RealBadAngel made by Paul Romero
11:27 RealBadAngel i do play HOMM3 since it was released, all the time
11:27 RealBadAngel never turned the music off
11:28 VanessaE bbl
11:28 RealBadAngel be it medievelal or whatever
11:28 RealBadAngel its a piece to love and remember
11:29 RealBadAngel yet our project has little reasons to turn the speaker on...
11:29 RealBadAngel do you get my point?
11:30 RealBadAngel atm you could as well disable all the sound in game
11:30 RealBadAngel its a fucking noise, nothin more
11:33 kahrl_ sound effect quality is a different issue
11:33 kahrl_ although still minetest_game ;)
11:34 kahrl_ I do agree that the current sounds are bad
11:36 RealBadAngel you know what?
11:36 RealBadAngel lets make it this way
11:37 RealBadAngel until this https://github.com/RealBadAngel/mtmus​ic/blob/master/menu/The%20Descent.mp3
11:37 RealBadAngel goes as main menu score, i am hanging all coding for mt project
11:37 kahrl_ extortion?
11:37 kahrl_ yay
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11:37 RealBadAngel and i mean it
11:38 Calinou we do need more sound effects
11:38 kilbith RealBadAngel: have you ever listened musics from 0ad or Hedgewars ?
11:38 Calinou we don't even have pain/death sounds
11:38 RealBadAngel so do it
11:38 RealBadAngel my way is in effect since now
11:39 RealBadAngel no more code for mt if this is not merged
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11:39 Calinou we could as well have respawn/teleport sounds, and lava/water ambient sound
11:41 kilbith RBA, your musics sound like the intro of action movies
11:42 kilbith this is epic theme that doesn't suit that game
11:42 RealBadAngel kilbith, menu should be an ivitation to adventure
11:42 kilbith there is not enough challenge in MT
11:42 RealBadAngel and a piece for what you will remember the app
11:43 kilbith even optionally, challenges are shit compared to MC
11:43 RealBadAngel yes, mt is lacking this
11:43 RealBadAngel we dont have reasons for users to remember our game
11:43 kilbith the only existing challenge is griefing and attacking ppl
11:43 RealBadAngel time to change that
11:43 kilbith exciting*
11:44 RealBadAngel i am coding AV stuff
11:44 RealBadAngel since now i wasnt allowed to change anything realated to this "A"
11:44 kilbith i'd prefer a polished VBO patch now, honestly
11:44 kilbith rather than a music
11:45 RealBadAngel you will
11:45 kilbith let that stuff to the artists
11:45 RealBadAngel when the music will be merged
11:45 RealBadAngel not any minute sooner
11:45 RealBadAngel until then i will not code anything more
11:45 kilbith it's blackmail ^
11:46 RealBadAngel yes it is
11:48 RealBadAngel i do earned that right i think
11:49 RealBadAngel if all of you think different way, maybe its a good time for me to make my fork
11:49 RealBadAngel and say goodbye
11:49 RealBadAngel for this time, i am serious and i really mean it
11:50 kilbith i think you need a good nap :)
11:51 RealBadAngel music pr was here for long enough
11:51 RealBadAngel you want AV coder? let him code things
11:51 crecca sound effects define how the game sounds, not the menu music
11:52 crecca the menu music should come last, so it finds with the sound design used in-game
11:52 RealBadAngel im off by now, bbl
11:52 crecca so it fits*
11:53 crecca for example there are already bird-songs in-game, I think it should be developed, it is very cool.
11:53 crecca I've heard sounds of the wind on some servers, albeit really crappy ones, it is a good idea.
11:53 crecca Echoing caverns is another thing that can add to the mood.
11:54 crecca In a world like this, a full-band classical orchestra coming out of nowhere doesn't make sense
11:55 crecca you have to be Stanley Kubrick to pull that off
11:55 kilbith agreed
11:55 crecca but that is a problem with many games and movies seem to repeat over and over again...
11:56 kilbith more generally that's bad idea that devs replace the work of the artists
11:56 kilbith it's like if my garagist would be self-improvised carpenter
11:56 crecca at least wear an artist cap...
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13:48 est31 whats av stuff
13:50 H-H-H audio visual ?
13:51 est31 ah thats the a part
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15:45 H-H-H ok need to do some diffing lol just built the fdroid repo source tgz for android and the sound works fine on my devices yet with master built the same way it doesnt
16:06 crecca Is the majority of minetest development done on GNU/Linux?
16:07 crecca I mean minetest core and minetest_game
16:07 crecca is the development on Windows even viable?
16:08 * H-H-H gave up on winblows and switced to linux yrs ago
16:29 sfan5 crecca: you can do minetest development on windows
16:29 sfan5 cmake works on windows
16:30 sfan5 you can use either visual studio or mingw
16:30 sfan5 git also works on windows
16:30 crecca yeah i was thinking that
16:30 sfan5 but most of the core devs use linux
16:31 crecca I'm asking just to know if the familiarity with unix is a requirement or just an option for the stubborn
16:33 sfan5 requirement for what?
16:34 crecca for being able to work on minetest code
16:34 sfan5 it's not a requirement
16:35 sfan5 it would probably even be an advantage to use windows for development
16:35 sfan5 a lot of code is written but not tested on windows
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16:36 Krock yeah, just ask me when a windows tester is needed ..
16:38 crecca sfan5: okay that's good then that the game can be developed on windows too
16:39 crecca although you can use VM for the purpose of testing and debugging
16:41 H-H-H also the game is lua so can be developed on anything that can read/write txt files :P the engine is a different beast entirely
16:41 crecca H-H-H: right
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17:25 paramat hi sfan5 please could you review game#562 ? currently the favourite seems to be asl97's 2nd subtle edit of gambit's texture
17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/562 -- Default: New ice texture by Gambit by paramat
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17:27 sfan5 paramat: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4752645​/8611487/62282e18-26f4-11e5-8c66-67ade8065c74.png this one?
17:44 paramat yes asl97's most recent edit
17:45 paramat so yes that one
17:47 Hunterz hi paramat, try create something like volcano biome...
17:49 paramat that's difficult, they would be tiny
17:49 paramat i might try adding large ones in a future mapgen though
17:50 paramat sfan thanks for attending to game, it's really neglected recently
17:53 paramat now i need a 2nd +1 from the team *sigh* (waits to pounce)
18:04 sloantothebone Hello, can you add in-game .conf editing?
18:04 sloantothebone I know you have /set but I'd like to see a gui in the menu that opens when you first open minetest
18:05 sloantothebone with a settings button
18:05 sloantothebone Do you need more detail
18:05 est31 its doable in a mod
18:05 sloantothebone You can change the menu with mods?
18:06 est31 ah you mean main menu
18:06 est31 no
18:06 sloantothebone Yeah main menu
18:06 sloantothebone Is the main menu written in lua?
18:06 est31 yes
18:06 sloantothebone Ok how do I edit .conf in lua
18:07 est31 its hte Settings object read it up
18:07 est31 the*
18:07 paramat 'setting set' i think
18:08 paramat see lua_api.txt
18:18 sloantothebone Lua_api.txt?
18:19 crecca there is also menu_lua_api.txt
18:20 sloantothebone Is it possible to delete the map for a world in lua?
18:20 crecca although it might be only in the development version
18:21 sloantothebone I might want to add a checkmark under "creative mode" and "damage enabled" called "hardcore mode" where it deletes the map when you die in a world
18:22 paramat these modding questions are best asked in the other channel
18:22 sloantothebone Ok
18:25 est31 well its mainmenu modding
18:41 est31 I spoke with celeron55 about a new website design
18:41 est31 idea is we hold a contest of designs
18:42 crecca est31: woah, awesome
18:43 est31 new page will be hosted at github pages and will be static
18:45 crecca not so awesome...
18:46 crecca (the github part)
18:47 paramat sorry sloantothebone i may be wrong about moving the subject to the other channel, so forget what i wrote =)
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18:48 celeron55 crecca: can you explain why that wouldn't be awesome?
18:48 crecca celeron55: github is not a free platform
18:48 sloantothebone Oh
18:48 celeron55 it's the only lightweight way to make a site editable by many members of the community but still have a flexible lightweight-to-make visual style
18:49 H-H-H set up gitlab thats free iirc
18:49 hmmmm I don't think there should be music in minetest
18:49 crecca celeron55: yes that is true
18:49 hmmmm everybody would just turn it off and listen to their dedicated music player anyway
18:49 est31 github only demands money from people who want to hide their source from the world
18:50 hmmmm if it does happen though, I propose we change the main menu music to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHm4ro_l8s
18:50 celeron55 crecca: feel free to suggest something else though
18:50 celeron55 crecca: the current site is hosted by me and is a dokuwiki instance with a custom template
18:50 celeron55 making those templates can get kind of clumsy
18:53 sloantothebone Is the Lua compiled?
18:54 est31 sloantothebone, yes if you activate LuaJIT
18:54 sloantothebone and if it is, would certain mods run faster in singleplayer if parts of it were ran client-side (when the api has that capability)?
18:54 sloantothebone Can I make minetest run faster with luajit?
18:54 est31 it wont be faster, but will have less lag and less load on multiplayer servers
18:54 est31 yes definitely
18:55 sloantothebone Why isnt luajit included with minetest?
18:55 crecca celeron55: yup I understand; the github pages service is a good one, if you don't want to pay for hosting it will be hard to find an alternative that is on par
18:55 crecca at least the last time I checked
18:55 est31 sloantothebone, we dont include everything, only whats required for a "minimal" game experience
18:55 est31 and even that has been softened i think
18:55 est31 after all we dont ship sqlite anymore
18:55 hmmmm luajit is specific to x86/64
18:56 est31 no
18:56 crecca If I'll have anything I'll let you know
18:56 est31 but platforms are limited yes
18:56 sloantothebone Can you make a reccomendation for luajit on the download page?
18:56 est31 hmmmm, http://luajit.org/luajit.html
18:56 hmmmm oh it seems they have arm, ppc, e500 and mips too
18:56 hmmmm what is e500?
18:56 sloantothebone I'm trying to find a deb to install it
18:56 hmmmm ah, another PPC variant it seems
18:57 sloantothebone Unless all I need are build-essential to compile it
18:57 hmmmm no SPARC?
18:57 hmmmm :/
18:58 hmmmm so I'd be able to theoretically run luajit on everything except my HP 9000 and the SunBlade
18:58 hmmmm and the VaxStation of course
18:58 hmmmm lol minetest on a vaxstation
18:58 est31 im not sure whether all platforms support actual JIT
18:58 est31 or only can use the assembler written parser
19:00 hmmmm heh I bet minetest would be too buggy to play on the more obscure platforms
19:00 hmmmm e.g. i caught a bunch of instances where people wrote code like... "int foobar = some_u16_value_here"
19:00 est31 yea
19:00 est31 even c_converter.h has that issue
19:00 est31 you have getintfield_default
19:01 est31 not well defined at all
19:01 hmmmm unfortunately you can't fix stupid
19:01 hmmmm i've been realizing lately that no matter how many polices, rules, etc. you put into place, there is no substitute for pure competence in terms of making code good
19:01 Calinou supa 1337 indeed
19:02 est31 you sorta have to live the culture hmmmm i think
19:02 hmmmm I can't force would-be core developers to read CERT C secure coding standards
19:02 hmmmm or read K&R
19:03 hmmmm so this is why you get cargo culted code like "u32 foobar = blah; if (foobar > 0xffffffff) ..."
19:04 hmmmm we would be a huge advantage if we made developers explain exactly the reason why every single line of code they write is necessary to be there
19:04 hmmmm "so why did you write this line?  uhh.."
19:04 hmmmm "lol i dunno because the other thing did it"
19:04 crecca maybe if you don't use the extension modules in your luajit code, you can just run good ol' lua parser, instead of luajit
19:05 crecca or maybe I'm completely wrong
19:05 hmmmm aren't the only extension modules FFI and BitOp?
19:06 crecca http://luajit.org/extensions.html
19:06 crecca few more
19:06 hmmmm hmm
19:07 est31 luajit btw does have a fix for valgrind you only have to recompile it with another config option
19:09 sfan5 <est31> im not sure whether all platforms support actual JIT
19:09 sfan5 every modern processor can support JIT
19:09 sfan5 no matter which architecture
19:10 est31 well not a harvard one
19:10 sfan5 crecca: also you can build minetest with standard lua, luajit is not required
19:11 est31 but my point was more directed towards whether luajit supports it
19:11 sfan5 is there any modern proccessor with havard arch.?
19:11 est31 not jit in general
19:11 celeron55 crecca: well i mean, if github pages goes paid or starts doing something that we don't like, i can just implement some kind of a repo puller on my VPS
19:11 est31 no, but I think some optimisations have weaked up von neumann
19:11 celeron55 crecca: but as long as github pages exist for free, it's not worth it to build the same thing oneself
19:11 est31 but you wont see anything performance wise i think
19:12 crecca celeron55: yeah that's why it's a minor issue, hosts can always be changed, if the situation changes
19:12 celeron55 we just have to make sure we aren't using any fancy stuff that's hard to implement on another host
19:12 celeron55 not sure if they offer anything like that right now
19:12 crecca it's just not "awesome"
19:13 crecca it's the service that is the most convenient, not the actual technical functionality
19:14 crecca (and github totally understood this when they introduced github pages)
19:16 crecca sfan5: I just realized I don't have luajit installed lol
19:18 * crecca recompiles
19:18 sfan5 you possible need to delete CMakeCache.txt and CMakeFiles to make cmake redo library detection
19:18 sfan5 possibly*
19:20 sloantothebone I need help with troubleshooting, my chat is laggy
19:20 sloantothebone So is the inventory
19:20 crecca yeah good call
19:20 sloantothebone I get messages in irc before I get them in minetest
19:21 sfan5 that doesn't automatically mean that your lagging
19:21 sfan5 also please discuss this in #minetest
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19:45 Calinou seriously, can someone fix the glitches where a respawned player is not really teleported?
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20:06 hmmmm is there an issue on github for it
20:13 Calinou nope
20:14 est31 is it that "moved too fast -- resetting position" thing
20:14 Calinou it is not related
20:14 Calinou it happens on servers with anticheat disabled
20:15 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2903
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20:15 est31 doesnt it give any logging message?
20:16 est31 I see the hunger games creators have "fixed" it by teleporting players every second to the starting positions during countdown
20:17 Calinou nothing happens in logs IIRC
20:19 sfan5 est31: i think thats a seperate feature not a fix for that bug
20:20 est31 sfan5, its both
20:20 est31 perhaps accidental fix
20:20 est31 dunno
20:20 est31 im not the author :)
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20:27 paramat hey mtgame team, can anyone give the ice texture the second necessary +1? Tesseract?
20:28 kilbith this is so cosmetical stuff that you don't need to IMO
20:33 est31 Tesseract, you also are one of the few engine devs to have the knowledge required to review #2898
20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2898 -- Add AreaStore data structure by est31
20:34 est31 (and you are the areas mod author, to where I've sent another PR)
20:34 paramat sfan5 how about my approval counting since i added the snow biomes myself?
20:34 sfan5 it's a texture issue
20:34 sfan5 biome does not matter
20:35 sfan5 (or who added it)
20:40 paramat yes that's what i thought =)
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21:36 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1908
21:36 Calinou makes sprinting feel much better, still automatically merge-able
21:37 hmmmm i hate these parameter adjustment CLs
21:37 hmmmm can we please stop doing them
21:38 hmmmm if you want to change something, write some actual code to make it adjustable and then set the /default/ to what you think is better
21:42 Calinou do we really need a minetest.conf setting for this?
21:42 Calinou this is not DarkPlaces, we don't want ~2500 settings :P
21:44 hmmmm it's vastly more productive than making a PR to change some numerical constant whose effect is up to the creator's subjective tastes
21:44 hmmmm we want code, not opinions
21:45 sfan5 what a shitty way to do discussions
21:45 sfan5 saying something and then leaving irc
21:45 hmmmm didn't notice that
21:45 hmmmm oh well, he can see the logs
21:52 hmmmm can anybody point me to the issue on github for the flat player glitch?
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22:03 * VanessaE peeks in
22:05 VanessaE hmmmm: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2524
22:05 VanessaE sort of.  only reference I could find.
22:07 hmmmm have you been able to readily reproduce it
22:10 hmmmm unrelated: https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/473af3f6d58dfebb05e4ca221291d441607f6583
22:10 hmmmm PTAL
22:11 VanessaE "readily" is not quite the right word, rather "frequently".  Happens a lot on VE-C.
22:11 * VanessaE looks..
22:13 VanessaE interesting unit test. :)
22:13 VanessaE I'll go ahead and put that in the servers' build and see what it bre--er does. :)
22:14 hmmmm i'll have to spend some time on your server
22:15 hmmmm do i not need to do anything special
22:15 VanessaE nope, just sign on.  and try again, and again, and...  :)
22:15 hmmmm just keep joining and leaving until I see players
22:15 hmmmm with the bug
22:15 hmmmm okay
22:15 VanessaE VE-Creative is the worst of them, where the flat glitch, 0,0,0 glitch, and so forth happen.  VE-Survival is where the serialization error happens most often
22:16 VanessaE OH, you can see the flat glitch for yourself too
22:16 VanessaE press f7 after sign-on
22:16 VanessaE s/for/on/
22:16 hmmmm what does F7 do?
22:16 VanessaE third-person view
22:16 hmmmm ahh okay
22:16 hmmmm sweet
22:26 hmmmm so describe to me exactly what i'm looking for here?
22:27 hmmmm the green guy shows up sometimes, and other times the player model texture is messed up
22:27 VanessaE that's it.
22:27 hmmmm how much of a % would you estimate each happens on VE-Creative?
22:27 hmmmm of each player viewed
22:27 VanessaE if you look close, "messed up" also correlates to a flat sprite image
22:27 VanessaE um
22:27 VanessaE on a bad day at least 75% of the time the skin will turn up flat or green-guy
22:27 hmmmm in any case I'm guessing that the model parsing fails or something like that and it 'falls back' to the flat guy
22:28 hmmmm and i'm also guessing it's due to file transfer corruption, possibly
22:28 hmmmm or a screwed up parameter serialization
22:28 hmmmm who knows
22:29 VanessaE I would assume param serialization, as it happens to veteran users with full caches (including the model and skin) also
22:29 hmmmm that sounds more like it, seeing as how this happened with nerzhul's change which did not modify the transport layer of the protocol (mostly serialization/deserialization of command-specific data)
22:30 VanessaE hm.  just looked at this week's overview map for VE-Vanilla ... weren't we supposed to have v6 snow biomes?
22:30 hmmmm i'm just throwing out nonsensical ideas that might be possible
22:30 hmmmm yes.. they're not enabled by default
22:30 hmmmm do you want your already existing map to start adding them in?
22:31 VanessaE well consider this:  VE-Survival gets that huge, sometimes-screenfull serialization error as in that other bug report.  maybe the fix you provided will help both?
22:32 VanessaE nah, there's no reason right now to turn snow biomes on.  Someone had just asked me if there was a way to get ice, which prompted me to look at the overview in case there were new biomes showing up.
22:33 VanessaE (at least, no reason to turn them on for an existing world.  I see nothing wrong with turning them on by default for new worlds though, if the settings and such are stable)
22:35 VanessaE one tool I need to get off my ass and write is a "strip the map down" program, something that'll delete mapblocks if they don't contain anything more than the standard mapgen stuff
22:43 VanessaE um, is this normal?  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-07-11_18-41-32.png
22:43 VanessaE (specifically the distant caves visible between the two loaded sections of map)
22:43 VanessaE (the two separately-loaded sections is fine - I teleported around a bit)
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22:53 paramat Vanessa those 'distant caves' are under the far section of terrain, so seem okay
22:54 VanessaE ok.  I don't teleport around much, particularly where there'll be unloaded map in my view, so I wasn't sure.
22:55 paramat v6 snow biomes are enabled by default for new worlds
22:55 VanessaE that's what I thought
22:56 VanessaE hmmmm: let me know when you've sufficiently tested your connection to VE-Survival (30001), and I'll deploy that patch.
22:58 paramat game#550 has a new leaves texture and seems ready to go
22:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/550 -- Default: Add savanna nodes, crafting and fuels by paramat
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23:00 VanessaE interesting look
23:00 VanessaE you should use my l-system acacia trees :)
23:03 VanessaE oh I see why you didn't.
23:04 paramat it's the 'umbrella thorn' 'acacia tortilis' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vachellia_tortilis
23:04 paramat big pale thons
23:04 paramat *thorns
23:06 paramat and wide flat canopy. l-system is slower
23:07 VanessaE that's the model I was going for also
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23:08 VanessaE damn it, why did you have to point to that page.  It has good imagery of the tree and now I have to add HDX support :P
23:09 crecca will there be gnus on the savanna?
23:10 paramat lol
23:10 VanessaE haha
23:16 hmmmm vanessae:  sure
23:16 hmmmm i'm starting on it now
23:16 VanessaE ok.
23:17 hmmmm so to make sure
23:17 VanessaE hmmmm: one thing that seems to help cause it is if you run several additional client instances in singleplayer, enough to drag down the responsiveness of your machine, while you're focused on the one you're connecting to VE-S with.
23:17 hmmmm PlayerSAO is the object that players are represented with, which is the thing that actually contains m_prop.textures()
23:18 hmmmm m_prop being an ObjectProperties
23:18 hmmmm so you think it's a race condition
23:18 VanessaE could be.  at this point I'm utterly clueless
23:19 hmmmm i can't help but wonder if this could be caused by the serialization error
23:20 VanessaE possibly.  I say the above because ordinarily I don't see the serialization error -- but the one time I decide to run several client instances at one (for that 11-client stress test for example), is the one time that connecting to VE-S almost guaranteed a serialization error, until cheapie teleported me away from the spawn area out to the middle of nowhere
23:20 VanessaE while others, cheapie included, get those errors pretrry regularly, with only their one client instance
23:20 VanessaE pretty*
23:20 hmmmm does your creative server not have 11 clients on it regularly?
23:21 VanessaE 11 clients refers to 11 instances of minetest on my box, each connected to a different server.
23:21 VanessaE but no it doesn't usually have much traffic these days.  most of the time it is idle, or maybe 1 or 2 players.
23:25 hmmmm my guess is that ObjectProperties::deSerialize is failing but the SerializationError is ignored
23:25 hmmmm this code is plain retarded
23:25 VanessaE lol
23:25 hmmmm it's never okay to ignore errors like this
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23:27 hmmmm of course it's not even possible to get a serializationerror because nothing throws them
23:27 hmmmm I wonder how much of a shitstorm minetest would have if I started actually throwing serializationerrors on a bad read in readU* and related functions
23:30 VanessaE my guess is it would be a total clusterfuck.
23:30 VanessaE :)
23:36 hmmmm which one is your creative server again?
23:36 hmmmm nevermind used the public serverlist
23:36 VanessaE 30000
23:36 VanessaE ok.
23:37 VanessaE that's the one you're gonna play hell connecting to
23:37 hmmmm llo
23:37 VanessaE at least if it's acting up
23:37 hmmmm "my username is jibberish"
23:37 VanessaE lol
23:37 VanessaE yeah, anything longer than 5 chars is tested against sfan5's anti-gibberish filter
23:37 hmmmm oh ffs
23:37 hmmmm what is not gibberish? according to sfan5?
23:37 VanessaE I got tired of people signing on as dhjeqiupfhiupsehfsa  :P
23:38 VanessaE anything that's remotely pronouncable
23:38 VanessaE or you can just use 'hmmmm' as you do here, that should fit.
23:39 hmmmm hmm
23:39 hmmmm 2015-07-11 19:38:53: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.digitalaudioconcepts.​com/creative-survival-media/index.mth not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 404)
23:39 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1466
23:40 VanessaE I use the flat-folder method, rather than the filenames-by-hash method (which would supply that ^^^ file)
23:44 hmmmm ermm
23:44 hmmmm i can't see the other instances of my clients
23:48 VanessaE weird.
23:49 VanessaE maybe related though
23:49 VanessaE you sure you didn't get hit by the "player delete" bug?
23:49 VanessaE when it happens, it's usually immediately after connecting
23:49 VanessaE you get like half a dozen mapblocks' worth of world and then, nothing.
23:50 VanessaE I can see your sign-ons though, from IRC anyway
23:56 hmmmm yeah i dunno
23:56 hmmmm this is so screwed up
23:56 hmmmm and laggy to boot
23:56 VanessaE yep
23:56 VanessaE meanwhile VE-V is nice and spritely
23:56 hmmmm they get stuck in this half-emerged state where I see a gray background but only players
23:56 hmmmm and then i can't chat from it
23:56 hmmmm and i don't get others' chats
23:56 VanessaE yep, that's another manifestation of it.
23:57 hmmmm lots of "got message for object blah blah blah that doesn't exist"
23:57 hmmmm and now the players are fucking flashing
23:57 hmmmm what the hell
23:57 hmmmm how can you stand this?
23:57 VanessaE I can't.
23:57 VanessaE I've been bitching about this for a while now
23:57 VanessaE but I don't have the heart to shut the server down
23:58 hmmmm i would quit minetest altogether this is so horrible
23:58 VanessaE I'm stubborn :)
23:59 hmmmm but people would rather focus on adding new cool features instead of making this shit work
23:59 VanessaE mmhmm
23:59 VanessaE THIS is why I called for a multi-week feature freeze
23:59 hmmmm i really am going to get flack for saying this but i thin k

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