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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 kahrl sorry for the delay, had to debug by room (it's a hot night) :P
00:03 kahrl I think that, since either way you have to increase the protocol version, both ways would be fine
00:03 kahrl so I'd go for the second
00:04 est31 yea
00:04 kahrl but I'm prone to mess up things like that, so maybe ask other people too :)
00:16 est31 Also, what do you think, should we make the player the chat message comes from a separate field?
00:16 est31 for TOCLIENT_CHAT_MESSAGE
00:17 est31 then clients can think of their own custom player name highlighting
00:17 est31 empty name for service messages like *** est joined the game
00:18 kahrl yeah, good idea
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00:58 est31 whats a good way to write U16_MAX?
01:04 kahrl 65535 :D
01:04 est31 (u16)-1?
01:05 kahrl dunno, I'd personally avoid that since it's implementation defined or something
01:07 RealBadAngel 2^16 -1
01:07 est31 ^ is xor
01:07 RealBadAngel power
01:07 est31 not pow
01:08 RealBadAngel i meant pow
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01:11 est31 eww
01:11 est31 either I allocate the clients mutex for every client again for every chat message
01:12 est31 or I add a sendChatMessage method to ClientInterface
01:12 est31 which is bad because its low level
01:12 est31 or I make lock functions public
01:12 est31 oh, not needed server is a friend class
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01:18 RealBadAngel est31, https://imgrush.com/9ajJtTqYgvOD
01:18 RealBadAngel best i can do
01:19 est31 RealBadAngel, how is it like before your fix?
01:20 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/FJAKbEpsE6OE
01:21 est31 well, we can say the rest is a rounding error.
01:22 est31 can you somehow do it so that after the texture, you only use the last pixel's color?
01:23 est31 so not tile it, but "continue" it instead
01:23 est31 I guess it would even be ok to "mirror" it after the line
01:24 est31 you know, like in TV when they show 16:9 content
01:25 RealBadAngel cant, doing so will break tiling at all
01:25 est31 ?
01:25 est31 do we need tiling?
01:25 RealBadAngel ofc we do need
01:26 RealBadAngel otherwise you wont get seamless patterns
01:26 est31 ah, I see
01:26 RealBadAngel until shader do not know if its working on tileable texture or not i cant alter the edges
01:27 RealBadAngel thats why i wanted nodedef property for that
01:30 est31 what we have here is already huge improvement
01:33 RealBadAngel above works only with provided normal maps
01:33 RealBadAngel wont work with autogen
01:33 est31 not yet?
01:34 RealBadAngel i guess never will
01:34 RealBadAngel i can hardcode some random values that could work for dirt with grass propably
01:35 RealBadAngel but then asphalt will fail
01:35 RealBadAngel only solution is to support normal maps at least for problematic cases
01:36 hmmmm agh
01:36 hmmmm it's possible I may have been wrong that (u16)-1 is well definde
01:36 hmmmm take a look at 6.2.6.2 note 44
01:37 est31 which version
01:37 hmmmm "Some combinations of padding bits might generate trap representations, for example, if one padding bit is a parity bit.  Regardless, no arithmetic operation on valid values can generate a trap representation other than as part of an exceptional condition such as an overflow, and this cannot occur with unsigned types"
01:37 hmmmm I am looking at ISO/IEC 9899:1999
01:38 hmmmm if it weren't for note 44, then (u16)-1 would be a correct way of representing U16_MAX due to 6.2.6.2 1)
01:39 hmmmm actually no, sorry scratch note 44, that doesn't apply here
01:39 hmmmm that's not an overflow, it's a conversion
01:41 kahrl ah yeah, it's well defined according to C++03
01:42 kahrl 4.7.2
01:42 hmmmm heh
01:42 hmmmm C++ is more friendly to undefined behavior I guess
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01:44 hmmmm kahrl:  chapter 4 is Conformance, maybe I'm reading a different document?
01:48 kahrl "Standard conversions" for me
01:49 kahrl in ISO/IEC 14882:2003(E)
01:49 hmmmm ahh, i'm reading the draft
01:49 hmmmm i wonder if i have the official version
01:57 est31 how do I again set a standard value for a const std::wstring & param?
01:57 est31 just = "" ?
01:57 hmmmm you mean default value?
01:57 hmmmm yes
01:57 est31 good
02:07 hmmmm heh interesting
02:07 hmmmm did not know this.  you can re-call an object's constructor explicitly by doing "new (foo) FooClass"
02:08 est31 lets hope you recall it when needed :D
02:09 hmmmm i don't think i would ever use something so obscure
02:09 est31 well yea, but I wanted to make a joke
02:10 est31 code style doesnt matter when making jokes
02:10 kahrl placement new? IIRC the idea behind that is if you have to allocate an object at some specific address (say, in memory mapped to some hardware), you can use this
02:12 kahrl also it's useful for containers
02:40 est31 how great c++ is hard typed
02:41 est31 makes replacing wstring with string soo easy
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03:24 est31 so here it is, with bugs, but ready for concept review: https://github.com/est31/minetest/tree/utf8-chat
03:24 est31 hmmmm, kahrl ^
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03:26 hmmmm when your function has std::string arguments, you might be able to change them to const std::string & instead and save on needlessly copying
03:26 est31 yes i might have overlooked
03:28 hmmmm wait, so what's the purpose of changing from wide strings to utf-8?
03:29 est31 wide strings are system dependent
03:29 est31 utf-8 isn't
03:30 est31 wchar and wstring and so on should really only be used when you directly communicate with irrlicht
03:40 hmmmm oh that's true, wchar_t is only guaranteed to be uts-2 on windows
03:41 hmmmm i suppose this ended up being a problem?
03:41 hmmmm for non-windows users
03:48 est31 hmmmm, I don't have any evidence
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05:10 est31 first its ucs not uts
05:10 est31 second, windows is using utf-16 by default
05:10 est31 which is ucs-2 for most cases, but not all
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08:09 est31 hmmmm, if you are still awake --> #2885
08:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2885 -- Utf8 based chat by est31
08:10 est31 using const references now
08:15 Krock est31, I see you made a commit.. changed UTF8 to ACP, why is it not merged to master yet?
08:15 est31 Krock, because its wrong
08:15 est31 proper fix is #2885
08:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2885 -- Utf8 based chat by est31
08:16 est31 Krock, see this: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/50669c6beaf57fe1796e
08:17 est31 (note though that a "proper fix" could have been substantially smaller then 2885, but it had to be done anyway)
08:45 Wuzzy I just found this: https://launchpad.net/minetest-c55 Is this the official translation platform for Minetest?
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08:45 est31 hm
08:45 est31 no
08:46 est31 the official platform is "submit a pr" right now
08:46 est31 kahrl, ^
08:47 Wuzzy then how in Earth did this launchpad page appear? o_O
08:47 est31 people test stuff in the past
08:47 Wuzzy Who is responsible for this page? I think it should be closed to avoid confusion
08:47 est31 only because there is some page left doesnt mean its the official version
08:49 Wuzzy its still kinda active, last change at 2015-05-05
08:49 Wuzzy all that work is probably wasted :/
08:50 est31 Wuzzy, I think its just mirrorring activity from git
08:51 Wuzzy that's not my point. People can directly input translations into this. And they will probably go directly into /dev/null ;-)
08:54 est31 Wuzzy, fine?
08:55 Wuzzy well, people may not know they work is wasted here
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08:59 Wuzzy okay, I just sent a message to whoever managed this Launchpad page
09:09 celeron55 uhm
09:09 est31 FYI its disabled now
09:10 celeron55 the message went to me and i have no idea what this is about
09:22 * est31 wonders how to advance minetest as ecosystem
09:22 est31 minecraft has dozens of clean-room re-implementations
09:22 est31 how many does minetest have?
09:22 est31 none
09:22 est31 ofc there is freeminer, which tries to be compatible to minetest
09:23 est31 but they regularly merge our commits
09:23 est31 perhaps we should document our protocol better
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09:31 est31 but I think having our own protocol and serialisation also gives us great possibilities
09:32 est31 we can do it differently than the minecraft clones
09:32 est31 and better
09:32 est31 ^thats the point
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12:43 Calinou we really should make servers.minetest.net prettier
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13:07 paramat hi nore, game#554 is ready to go and i have made the changes sfan5 requested http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-04#i_4310502 (20:32 and 20:34) can i push later?
13:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/554 -- Default/trees: Add checks for air/ignore/needles to pinetree trunk by paramat
13:10 Calinou paramat, I think you and nore talked about making me a minetest_game maintainer
13:10 Calinou do you remember this?
13:15 paramat that was hmmmm and nore who discussed it
13:19 paramat or maybe hmmmm and someone else, can't remember, anyway i guess it's up to the mtgame team to decide, not hmmmm =)
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13:37 paramat i think i'll go ahead and push 554 since it's my own code and sfan5 has reviewed and made requests
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14:21 paramat now pushing 554 to game
14:29 paramat complete
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14:38 Calinou can someone review https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2828
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16:35 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2886
16:35 Calinou please merge ASAP
16:35 Calinou I just tested it, for a reason
16:35 hmmmm what's the issue with it?
16:36 Calinou you can jump very high on bouncy nodes if pressing jump key at the same time, even if the node has a low bounciness.
16:36 Calinou (like, 50 nodes high)
16:36 Calinou this PR fixes it
16:36 hmmmm i didn't even know about bouncy blocks
16:36 Calinou maybe play Minetest more often :-)
16:36 hmmmm can you link me to the code for a bouncy block def?  i just want to try it myself
16:36 Calinou ok, try this mod
16:36 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&t=9891
16:36 Calinou install, enable, then /giveme jumping:trampoline_1
16:36 Calinou left click trampoline to increase strength (green = low strength, yellow = high strength)
16:37 Calinou /giveme jumping:cushion for a cushion (impedes all fall damage)
16:37 hmmmm ohh
16:37 hmmmm isn't this the mod that exposed that collision bug where player objects would accelerate at insane speeds
16:37 Calinou probably
16:37 Calinou this one is a fork of Jeija's jumping mod
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16:40 hmmmm is this behavior new?
16:40 hmmmm i wouldn't expect a trampoline to shoot me up 120 nodes
16:40 Calinou it happens since like 2013
16:40 Calinou hmmmm, now build Miner59's pull request and see
16:41 Calinou you can't jump anymore on trampoline, fixing the bug
16:41 hmmmm why is it a priority all of a sudden now if this happened for that long
16:41 Calinou last year I made an issue
16:42 Calinou I'm going through my issues and closing the fixed ones
16:42 hmmmm if I'm understanding this code correctly, removing this doesn't disable jumping
16:42 hmmmm it just doesn't add a /second/ jump while on the trampoline
16:43 Calinou you actually can't jump at all on trampoline, which is a downside
16:43 Calinou but I'd rather have that than super high broken jumps
16:43 hmmmm :\
16:43 hmmmm that's not a fix at all then
16:44 hmmmm maybe the problem should actually be solved instead of removing the ability to jump on a trampoline, you know, something that you expect to be able to do
16:45 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1443
16:45 Calinou heh, made the issue exactly 1 year ago
16:46 Calinou this is the issue about bouncy nodes: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1552
16:47 hmmmm yeah i tried it
16:47 hmmmm -1 from me
16:47 hmmmm sorry calinou, this is like making a patch to remove Xorg if somebody complains that there's screen tearing
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16:51 hmmmm actually nevermind, it seems like there's a node group "disable_jump" that explicitly uses this behavior
16:51 Calinou yes but
16:51 Calinou try removing disable_jump=1
16:51 hmmmm so, disable_jump is doing what it's supposed to be doing
16:51 Calinou and see what happens
16:51 Calinou it is not working on nodeboxes
16:52 Calinou disable_jump=1 hasn't worked on nodeboxes for a long time now
16:52 hmmmm it seems to be working here, what do you mean?
16:52 hmmmm i'll try removing disable_jump
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16:52 Calinou try jumping on a cushion; you can, even though there is disable_jump=1
16:53 hmmmm isn't a trampoline a nodebox?
16:54 Calinou both trampoline and cushion are nodeboxes
16:54 hmmmm i can jump on it just fine with disable_jump=1 removed from the groups.  am I misunderstanding something here?
16:55 hmmmm with disable_jump=1, as expected, it disables the jump
16:55 hmmmm the behavior here is appropriate i think
16:55 Calinou so the trampoline works fully as expected?
16:55 hmmmm of course not.  you don't bounce on the trampoline when you jump.
16:55 hmmmm a bouncy jump is what's expected
16:55 hmmmm but that's been removed by this code
16:57 hmmmm this logic is sort of messed up.  what is immediately intuitive to me would be that bouncy creates a bounce when you jump on that node.  disable_jump disables all jumping
16:57 hmmmm so why would disable_jump ever need to be there to begin with
16:57 hmmmm who wrote this, rather
17:00 hmmmm first of all, the bouncy jump needs to be fixed rather than removed.  second, the logic governing jumping and bouncy jumping is screwed up
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17:14 paramat i intend to automate the lowest level of mgv7 mountain terrain generation: in base terrain generation, if surface level is at any point < node_max.Y mountain generation will be enabled for that mapchunk. i'm unsure about implementation. 'generateBaseTerrain' already returns a value. what is preferred: that function returning 2 values, one being a bool for mountain generation, or, add this bool as a new member of c
17:14 paramat lass MapgenV7?
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17:22 paramat a function returning 2 values seems messy and not used in our code, i think i'll try adding a member
17:26 hmmmm i'd have it return two values
17:27 paramat thanks, i was researching how, seems there are various ways
17:27 paramat std:pair?
17:28 hmmmm void generateTerrain(s16 *y_min, s16 *y_max) {
17:29 paramat cool i'll research and use that method
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17:49 paramat have to go, back later
17:49 paramat left #minetest-dev
17:50 RealBadAngel hi
17:51 RealBadAngel one out, one in, number of devs in chan hasnt changed ;)
17:51 est31 yea
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17:59 RealBadAngel i just tried tape n glue VanessaE's solution for non tileable textures
17:59 est31 ?
18:01 RealBadAngel if i have info texture of that kind: https://imgrush.com/xvvGKq-OEFOD
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18:01 H-H-H hi guys any android compillers on at mo?
18:01 est31 H-H-H, yes
18:01 H-H-H im still battling with this sound issue
18:03 H-H-H if i run the apk from fdroid or playstore the sound is fine however if i run the one i build its distorted and i also ran the libvorbis encoder demo and thats distorted so im thinking it might be something with how i compile it
18:03 H-H-H btw im running it on a samsung galaxy note 10.1
18:03 H-H-H do you have an apk i can test and maybe if you could tell me the steps you take to build ?
18:04 H-H-H also im on 32bit build platform not 32
18:05 H-H-H rm 64bit*
18:05 H-H-H i have tried building manually and through eclipse
18:05 est31 I only have the fdroid build
18:06 H-H-H well fdroid one is the one im running right now
18:06 H-H-H 0.4.12.12
18:06 H-H-H literally just updated
18:09 H-H-H mind if i ask what steps you use to build it
18:13 est31 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/blob/​master/metadata/net.minetest.minetest.txt
18:15 H-H-H ty
18:31 H-H-H this is silloy lol i cant find any differences lol
18:31 H-H-H other than ones 32bit and the other is 64
18:31 est31 the f-droid buildserver even uses 32 bit I think
18:32 RealBadAngel est31, https://imgrush.com/QnUp3FBFt1qF.png
18:32 RealBadAngel perfect imho
18:32 RealBadAngel i just need to find a way to pass that info to shaders
18:33 est31 what info again?
18:33 RealBadAngel not tileable, horizontally, vertically, seamless
18:33 est31 what would shaders do with the difference?
18:34 RealBadAngel see the image
18:34 RealBadAngel can you see any flaws on dirt with grass?
18:35 H-H-H i really hope i get this friggin audio issue sorted as i have some interesting ideas lol
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18:58 est31 Ah, RealBadAngel I see what you mean
18:58 est31 still I think better than before
18:59 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/vydibANTps_d
18:59 RealBadAngel see what tape n glue does with seamless connection
19:00 RealBadAngel you should spot the problem right away
19:00 est31 yes
19:00 RealBadAngel so, shader has to be aware of texture kind, no other way
19:01 est31 I guess the effect is happening because the view angle changes from block to block?
19:01 RealBadAngel no, because of the fix for nontiling textures
19:01 est31 any way to lay out this distortion continously over the block?
19:01 est31 well yea meant that
19:02 RealBadAngel fixing one issue breaks something another
19:02 est31 still I think the effect is not that serious like the problem it fixed
19:02 RealBadAngel its even worse than that
19:02 RealBadAngel all seamless textures are broken if fix is applied
19:03 est31 well its a blocky game
19:03 est31 and there is alot of noise happening
19:03 est31 already
19:03 RealBadAngel this is not a noise, this time it could be called a bug
19:03 RealBadAngel and this time i will agree
19:04 est31 it is more subtle IMO
19:04 RealBadAngel subtle? its damn glitch visible on each surface :)
19:05 RealBadAngel im coding now passing tiling info to shaders
19:05 est31 k
19:05 RealBadAngel i already know the way (in fact i was already using it)
19:05 RealBadAngel with enable/disable textures
19:14 est31 pushing in 10 minutes: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​62720b8dafdee36c69f2017e179e5bdd04a44dba
19:14 est31 hmmmm,  ^
19:27 kahrl est31: this is the kind of commit that is definitely not trivial
19:27 est31 kahrl, the field was introduced by me, and it has been a silly mistake
19:27 est31 the serialisation version is something else than the protocol version
19:28 est31 also, what do you propose for me to do?
19:28 est31 I need that commit as bugfix for a PR
19:28 est31 the PR is unrelated however to the commit, should I still put it into the PR?
19:28 est31 should I make an extra PR just for this tiny PR?
19:29 est31 then I would need to make the utf8 PR dependent on the bugfix PR
19:29 est31 ok perhaps not that
19:29 kahrl yeah, or just ping a few devs to get someone to approve it
19:29 est31 because its "just" a bugfix
19:29 est31 so what do you think
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19:30 est31 look at how handleCommand_Hello does it
19:30 kahrl I've endured more than 35 degrees celcius the last few hours, I can't think :(
19:31 est31 fortunately, its chillier where I live
19:31 est31 there has been a storm earlier this day
19:31 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/src/clientiface.h
19:31 est31 the one handler is for the legacy protocol
19:32 kahrl we had a storm a few days ago, but it didn't lower the temperature any, just made the air humid :(
19:32 est31 the _hello one is for the current protocol
19:32 est31 :(
19:36 est31 nore, RealBadAngel sfan5 Tesseract can you have a look at https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​62720b8dafdee36c69f2017e179e5bdd04a44dba
19:39 est31 man whats this shit
19:39 est31 I cant even fix that bug because nobody is around
19:39 est31 you know what
19:39 est31 push it yourself
19:39 est31 I wont push it
19:48 kahrl wut
19:49 * kahrl doesn't see what's so urgent about getting this fix into master immediately
19:50 AnotherBrick may be cause it's just little fix that he's fixing for three day already
20:02 kahrl I don't see any talk about this particular bug in the logs
20:03 AnotherBrick remember that suggested change from CP_UTF8 to CP_ACP to fix encoding troubles on win? it's still about that
20:05 kahrl then why can't it be a part of that PR?
20:06 AnotherBrick idk
20:07 AnotherBrick cause it's useful on it's own regardless of that giantic switch chat to utf8
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20:11 hmmmm I'm not completely sure I understand the ramnifications of making such a network change
20:11 hmmmm but it has the potential to break lots of things
20:11 hmmmm why are developers themselves judges on what is trivial and not trivial?  we need to rethink this exception
20:13 hmmmm what does server_ser_ver stand for?
20:13 hmmmm server server ?
20:13 hmmmm server serialization version?
20:13 hmmmm what is the thing getting serialized here?
20:15 AnotherBrick i kinda feel urge to answer your questions but it's not my commit, so i won't ))
20:18 celeron55 hmmmm: it's the mapblock serialization version
20:18 hmmmm it's used for other things
20:19 celeron55 not really
20:19 hmmmm right *now* it is
20:19 hmmmm look at Client::ProcessData
20:20 hmmmm that if statment doesn't look correct.  serialization format support should be determined by the deserialize() functions, not ProcessData
20:20 hmmmm FWIW it's also used for MapNode serialization, not just MapBlock
20:20 celeron55 well yeah, mapnodes too; i consider that to be the same thing
20:21 celeron55 it's also passed to various things serialized inside mapblocks but that's obvious
20:21 celeron55 the name of that variable is ancient though and it has been misleading for years
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20:22 celeron55 it should probably be changed to be mapblock_version or something like that
20:22 est31 the problem of our current wstring stuff is that its not well defined
20:23 est31 yes, you can fix the windows regression with a single line
20:23 est31 the PR is not meant as "only possible fix" for the windows regression
20:23 hmmmm well
20:23 hmmmm I guess I can get behind 62720b8
20:24 est31 I've just thought that having wstring input, converting to utf8 then to wstring then to utf8 then to wstring is a bit stupid
20:27 est31 and my other commit is to fix the mistake that the mapblock serialisation version (whether its needed or not) has been mistaken with the protocol version
20:30 est31 wstrings are incredibly wasty, they require 4 bytes per character on gcc
20:31 est31 current network sending code is broken for surrogates I think
20:31 est31 because on linux you will have code points
20:32 est31 and on windows and the current chat protocol you need surrogates
20:32 est31 we just cut off the higher 2 bytes
20:33 est31 this is a typical bug when handling wstrings
20:33 est31 they are harmful, should be avoided as much as possible.
20:34 est31 with utf-8 you are reminded of the fact of being variable length encoding
20:34 est31 all the non-english speaking folks will complain fast enough
20:35 celeron55 you can blame me and i will discard the blame by saying the wstrings in the protocol are just stupid hacks that weren't meant to be left there 8)
20:35 est31 so, I remove the stupid hack now
20:35 est31 I just wanted to give some points because hmmmm has asked for them
20:35 celeron55 utf-8 is the way to go in any serialization format; i don't think anyone can argue against that
20:35 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-05#i_4311635
20:38 celeron55 cross-version compatibility is an issue with the wstrings in the protocol; i guess it can be handled nicely with a protocol version bump?
20:39 Calinou we definitely should protocol bump more often, we could do more things
20:39 Calinou and it'd force people to run updated versions, which is a Good Thing™
20:39 Calinou </troll mode off>
20:39 celeron55 (looks like that's how the PR does it)
20:39 est31 yup
20:43 est31 and for why I dont do the commit I wanted to push earlier inside the pr, its unrelated, and I dont want to make unrelated changes in a PR. Yes its fixing a bug that breaks "new client old server" for the PR, but it should be done regardless whether the PR gets merged or not."
20:43 est31 -trailing2
20:43 est31 2*
20:43 est31 "**
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20:56 AnotherBrick aaaand merge of est31/master and est31/utf8-chat seems to fix cyrillic!
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22:02 paramat seems to work so far, i need to test more though https://github.com/paramat/​minetest/tree/automountbase
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23:14 crazyR anyone seen sfan5 today?
23:25 RealBadAngel havent said anything today
23:26 RealBadAngel kahrl, here?

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