Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-06-03

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:15 Creeper joined #minetest-dev
00:59 Creeper joined #minetest-dev
01:36 kahrl RealBadAngel: I can't comment too much on the shader code itself, but when making a mesh, the tangents should only be calculated if they are needed (parallax mapping is enabled)
01:44 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
01:52 zat joined #minetest-dev
02:23 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
02:33 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
02:42 hmmmm RealBadAngel, what kahrl said and also maybe the code can get cleaned up
02:43 hmmmm there's lots of dead code, lots of repetitious code, code that doesn't do anything, variables that aren't used anywhere, etc.
02:59 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
02:59 Garth joined #minetest-dev
03:05 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
03:13 hmmmm you know what
03:13 hmmmm doxygen creates complacency
03:14 hmmmm it encourages low quality documentation that's usually just a matter of repeating the function name in a sentence
03:14 hmmmm because it looks so complete, people might mistake that class or interface or whatever as actually being documented and not bother to work on it
03:15 hmmmm i keep noticing this trend in projects using doxygen.
03:25 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
03:27 RealBadAngel hi hmmmm, have you saw my PR?
03:30 hmmmm yes
03:30 hmmmm what kahrl said, it would be nice if tangents weren't always recalculated
03:30 hmmmm also some general code cleanup
03:31 RealBadAngel i can make recalculating tangents depending on settings, no prob
03:31 RealBadAngel but what  should be cleaned?
03:32 hmmmm everything...
03:32 hmmmm [10:43 PM] <hmmmm> there's lots of dead code, lots of repetitious code, code that doesn't do anything, variables that aren't used anywhere, etc.
03:33 RealBadAngel i cant see there any dead code at all
03:33 RealBadAngel also no repetitions imho
03:34 hmmmm are you kidding me...
03:34 hmmmm I am looking at the most up to date version right?
03:36 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/2755/files
03:36 hmmmm where do i start..
03:36 RealBadAngel wheres dead code here?
03:36 hmmmm alright, going in order:
03:36 hmmmm actually you know what I'll just write comments about it in the PR
03:37 RealBadAngel ok that would be better
03:46 RealBadAngel ok thx, will clean that
03:48 RealBadAngel but about "Why do all mesh buffers need to be tangent mesh buffers now?", mapblock mesh have to be in tangent space
03:48 RealBadAngel this applies only for that particular mesh
03:49 hmmmm there
03:49 hmmmm I made like 50 comments
03:58 paramat joined #minetest-dev
04:08 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
04:31 paramat hmmmm, here's the improved biome recalculation logic https://github.com/paramat​/minetest/tree/biomerecalc
04:32 paramat now triggers biome recalculation at 'stone below water' underwater surfaces, so we can have grass or whatever at y=1 and touching the water's edge
04:33 paramat testing i checked that biome is calculated only 0, 1 or 2 times per node column (rarely 3) so code is fast
04:34 paramat will apply it to mgv5 and push later
04:36 paramat i feel this biome api is fairly settled now, but let me know if you think of any necessary improvements
04:40 paramat i even tried biome blend, but it inevitably makes a large dithered mess in some areas, it reminded me why i don't like blend
04:51 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
04:56 hmmmm how did you implement the biome blending?
04:56 hmmmm the way I would do it is by adding or subtracting a very small fractional amount to each the humidity and temperature
04:57 hmmmm i.e. humidity_map[i] + (pcgrand.range(0, 4) - 2) / 4.f
04:57 paramat yes like that
04:59 paramat i also tried vertical blend between stacked biomes, by adding a random 0 or 1 to y, also looked bad
05:01 hmmmm hrmm
05:02 hmmmm maybe we should be asking the question of what a good looking biome blend would be like
05:02 paramat yeah
05:02 hmmmm and then we'll find an algorithm to make that effect
05:02 hmmmm great job on the biome calculation btw
05:03 hmmmm that was always one of the most painful parts of mapgen v7 to work on
05:03 paramat um i did consider a small-scale noise added to heat and humidity to create a small-scale jagged-edge to biome borders
05:03 paramat cool
05:04 hmmmm hmm
05:05 paramat so no dither but a 1-octave noisy edge
05:05 hmmmm so adding a "detail" noise with a very low spread value
05:05 hmmmm why 1 octave?
05:05 hmmmm wouldn't that defeat the purpose
05:05 paramat performance hehe
05:05 hmmmm performance is already gone with detail noises
05:05 paramat doesn't need many octaves if it's got a 8 node scale
05:06 hmmmm if the spread factor is small enough, you might as well just use point-polled noise calculation
05:07 paramat you mean no perlinmaps?
05:07 hmmmm yeah
05:07 hmmmm i don't think i use perlinmaps for dungeongen
05:07 paramat yeah those would be wasted for most of the area
05:07 hmmmm i'd have to argue the threshhold is around ~25 nodes
05:08 hmmmm at that point it's just a gigantic waste of memory for almost no speed benefit
05:08 paramat well perhaps i'll trry this to see it
05:08 paramat (try)
05:14 paramat BTW for your multistage mapgen idea, i suggest using non-overgenerated noise-generated caves, then you can make it 2-stage not 3-stage
05:15 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
05:23 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
05:24 kaeza_ joined #minetest-dev
05:26 paramat will push soon https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2756
05:31 hmmmm if i'm going to add in all this extra infrastructure, why try to reduce the number of stages?
05:32 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
05:32 hmmmm besides, let's face it, 3d noise-based caves are slllllllowwww
05:32 hmmmm i would need to have that first stage for dungeons, anyway
05:32 paramat thought it would make it simpler
05:32 paramat yeah
05:32 hmmmm yeah :) heh
05:33 hmmmm well this effectively kills the "store only map changes" idea
05:33 paramat ugh good
05:34 hmmmm I think it's a really great idea though
05:34 hmmmm it's just too problematic to work properly
05:35 paramat now pushing 2756
05:35 hmmmm looks good to me.
05:36 paramat ok
05:39 paramat complete
05:42 paramat i'll try this new biome blend idea soon
05:42 paramat left #minetest-dev
05:47 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:02 Anchakor joined #minetest-dev
06:33 johnnyjoy joined #minetest-dev
07:05 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
07:05 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
07:20 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
07:24 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
08:00 Yepoleb_ joined #minetest-dev
08:03 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
08:29 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
08:36 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
08:39 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
08:41 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
08:41 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
10:03 chchjesus joined #minetest-dev
10:28 selat joined #minetest-dev
11:20 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
12:00 proller joined #minetest-dev
12:32 crazyR could someone provide a hidden formspec type. for providing hidden fields to the on_receive function... i currently do it by "field[3000,0;9,0;hidden_field_nam​e;;hidden_field_data_to_be_sent]"  which is a little too hacky in my opinion
12:36 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
12:36 rubenwardy crazyR, http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding​_book/chapters/formspecs.html#contexts
12:37 rubenwardy there's a feature request here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1652
12:40 crazyR thanks. why didnt i think of that solution above. so simple lol
12:41 rubenwardy ;)
13:24 Darcidride_ joined #minetest-dev
13:31 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
13:31 Lunatrius` joined #minetest-dev
13:41 troller joined #minetest-dev
13:45 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest-dev
13:45 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
13:47 proller joined #minetest-dev
13:48 zat joined #minetest-dev
13:54 proller joined #minetest-dev
14:08 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
14:13 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
14:14 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
14:14 Megaf kahrl: you and darkrose has been with minetest for very long now
14:14 Megaf 4 years :)
14:15 Megaf kahrl: your first commit to minetest. 15/09/2011
14:15 Megaf sfan5: 11/09/2011
14:15 Megaf very cool
14:25 Wayward_Tab joined #minetest-dev
14:40 VanessaE joined #minetest-dev
14:50 Calinou mine has been in june 2012, I think
14:53 Megaf 24/06/2012 Calinou
14:53 Megaf Message cleanups (consistency) and prevent /me when not allowed to shout
14:54 troller joined #minetest-dev
15:10 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:11 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:19 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
15:46 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
15:58 est31 joined #minetest-dev
16:01 proller joined #minetest-dev
16:17 Krock joined #minetest-dev
16:40 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
16:50 est31 anyone to review #2751
16:51 SopaXT joined #minetest-dev
16:56 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
17:11 Anchakor joined #minetest-dev
17:23 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
17:25 MinetestForFun_ joined #minetest-dev
18:22 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
18:25 TheWild joined #minetest-dev
18:29 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
18:30 RealBadAngel hmmmm, here?
18:52 RealBadAngel conf.example  section on shaders is a complete mess
18:53 est31 bad
18:53 est31 then perhaps make it better?
18:56 RealBadAngel i just did that
18:56 est31 nice
18:57 RealBadAngel descriptions were once above once below, some of them was completely misplaced
18:58 RealBadAngel i think ive cleaned all regarding #2755
18:58 est31 I'm not sure, I think the descriptions are mostly above?
18:59 RealBadAngel lookin at the file? dont think so
18:59 RealBadAngel seems to be random
18:59 RealBadAngel lookin around ive found out most of them below
19:01 RealBadAngel which imho is logical, first you should read the name of the setting then what it actually does
19:02 est31 again, a political issue.
19:02 RealBadAngel hehe yeah
19:02 est31 I'm for descriptions being above :)
19:04 RealBadAngel btw had fps being locked at 60fps lately?
19:04 Calinou they are since 2012, by my request :P
19:04 RealBadAngel current code is way faster than before but i cannot realease the lock with settings
19:05 RealBadAngel i would like to know how much i gained
19:06 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
19:06 Calinou fps_max = 1000
19:06 Calinou put that in your .conf
19:07 RealBadAngel tried that already
19:07 RealBadAngel still locked at 60
19:08 Calinou disable vsync forcing
19:08 Calinou on GNU/Linux: vblank_mode=0 bin/minetest
19:08 Calinou (it's a variable)
19:11 RealBadAngel also no change
19:12 RealBadAngel nvm, 256x TP with all textures using bumpmapping and parallax, all other effects on. it doesnt drop below 60fps
19:12 RealBadAngel i guess its good enough :)
19:12 * VanessaE benchmarks the code..
19:12 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
19:12 est31 press f5
19:12 est31 then look for the drawtime
19:13 Calinou talking about benchmarks: https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/
19:13 RealBadAngel drawtime = 15
19:13 est31 15 ms then
19:13 Calinou that means you have a bit more than 60 possible FPS
19:14 Calinou drawtime of 16 means ~66.6667 FPS
19:15 OldCoder joined #minetest-dev
19:18 RealBadAngel well, disabling or enabling  any of the effects seems to have no impact on shown drawtime
19:19 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
19:19 RealBadAngel i can see the same time for 16px and no shaders
19:19 RealBadAngel which doesnt make any sense
19:20 Mikeonline joined #minetest-dev
19:20 Mikeonline hi
19:21 Mikeonline how can i figure out what floods my server with objects at a special block coord. every seconds the server needs to delete objects by ServerEnv
19:21 * VanessaE continues making some benchmarks of 2755
19:22 RealBadAngel VanessaE, ok
19:30 Hijiri joined #minetest-dev
19:30 Mikeonline strange. one player had a crippled 2d skin, others had 3d. how can this happen
19:31 Mikeonline after reconnect of this player it was gone
19:32 VanessaE Mikeonline: I've seen that bug on my creative server before too.
19:35 VanessaE RealBadAngel: http://pastebin.com/8XYzaGJc
19:35 VanessaE there's the results.
19:37 VanessaE note that for these test, of course all-view-range mode was turned off (I only turned it on for a few seconds to take the linked screenshot)
19:37 est31 If I just could reproduce the bug locally
19:37 VanessaE tests*
19:38 VanessaE est31: I don't think it's possible to reproduce on a local server - I think it depends on there being some moderate amount of ping + server latency
19:39 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
19:39 RealBadAngel VanessaE, please alter parallax iterations to 1
19:39 VanessaE alter it where?
19:40 RealBadAngel conf, parallax_occlusion_iterations = 1
19:40 VanessaE ok.
19:40 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
19:40 RealBadAngel before it was just one step, now its default to 4 for better image quality
19:40 RealBadAngel personally im using 10
19:41 VanessaE testing...
19:41 RealBadAngel i just tried to stress test it and tried with 100 iterations
19:41 RealBadAngel got 30 fps
19:41 Calinou 4 sounds good
19:41 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
19:42 Mikeonline VanessaE: but did not find it?
19:42 RealBadAngel but for 512px tps one iteration should be good enough
19:42 Mikeonline VanessaE: i found some entry using function on joinplayer. using minetest after.
19:42 RealBadAngel with 128 or 256x 3-4 iterations are optimal
19:43 Calinou how about dynamic iteration count?
19:43 Calinou and you let user specify a multiplier in conf
19:43 Calinou that might be tricky to implement
19:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: ok with shaders+bumps+parallax, iterations set to 1, 13 GB RAM, 60 fps, but the view range crashed to 35m (I can't see any of the landscape shown in the example screenshot)
19:43 Mikeonline http://pastebin.com/31jF3WKr can i remove this on leaveplayer?
19:43 RealBadAngel no way,  shaders do not know  size of the texture
19:43 VanessaE make that 62 fps.
19:44 est31 Mikeonline, where is that code?
19:44 est31 inside a mod?
19:45 RealBadAngel Calinou, in shaders texture coords are always in range 0 - 1, no matter the real size of it
19:45 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
19:45 MinetestForFun joined #minetest-dev
19:46 Mikeonline est31: yes maybe this code could cause the trouble? just guessing. is there a way in core to figure out what triggers the ServerEnv message?
19:47 est31 the issue is that too many objects are inside one block,
19:47 est31 that code isnt that bad
19:47 est31 its bad yes
19:47 est31 it can cause problems when a player leaves the game fast enough
19:47 VanessaE RealBadAngel: second test just to be sure...  shaders+bump+parallax, iterations = 1:  14 GB, 39 fps, 74.7m
19:47 est31 then the player will be logged out
19:47 est31 and the game will crash
19:48 Mikeonline but this could not effect the objects?
19:48 RealBadAngel VanessaE, wonder what slows you down, 512x or  too much leaves around
19:49 VanessaE look at the linked screenshot
19:49 Mikeonline est31: is there a way to figure out what creates the objects? is a formspec an object too?
19:50 est31 no
19:50 est31 in this context, an object is a server active object
19:50 est31 look out for mods which create entities
19:51 VanessaE RealBadAngel: http://pastebin.com/h3ZH5CiW (fit those figures into the table)
19:51 Mikeonline entities as dropped objects only?
19:51 neoascetic joined #minetest-dev
19:51 neoascetic option(
19:51 neoascetic ENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP "Enable using a system-wide JSONCPP.  May cause segfaults and other memory errors!"
19:51 est31 for example
19:51 neoascetic wow, really?
19:51 est31 Mikeonline, or mobs
19:51 est31 neoascetic, yes, there are buggy versions of that library outside
19:51 Mikeonline est31: http://pastebin.com/jT24trWr   i think there is no mob mod
19:52 est31 like mine the last time I checked
19:52 Mikeonline is there a way to check out which node-area is affected, fly there and see what happens?
19:52 RealBadAngel VanessaE, so, with equal nr of iterations it looks like you gained 10fps
19:52 est31 Mikeonline, scan the code for register_entity
19:52 est31 yes one idea
19:52 Mikeonline est31: all mod source?
19:52 est31 yes
19:53 est31 for the flying, i'm not sure whether you have to multiply the coordinates with 16
19:53 neoascetic got this in logs: NodeResolver: failed to resolve node name 'mapgen_river_water_source'
19:53 est31 neoascetic, update your minetest game
19:53 VanessaE RealBadAngel: yeah, there's a significant gain with iterations=1, but as you can see from the screenshot, my texture pack doesn't have anything useful in the parallax maps data such that I would be able to see the difference.  I'm only really concerned with the overall performance anyway
19:53 Mikeonline est31: i will check this out. afk while
19:54 RealBadAngel VanessaE, with proper maps you will see that. atm it just works
19:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: yeah.  not that it matters anyway, there's nothing to see in that view - too far away from anything that could show parallax effects anyway.
19:55 melvin joined #minetest-dev
19:55 RealBadAngel btw, theres one more test to be done
19:55 VanessaE yes?
19:55 RealBadAngel try old code vs new but without shaders
19:55 VanessaE sure.
19:55 VanessaE gimme a minute
19:55 RealBadAngel superb
19:59 err404 joined #minetest-dev
20:00 neoascetic est31 I am using the latest master, error still exist in logs
20:03 VanessaE RealBadAngel: http://pastebin.com/8jYr2tMi
20:03 est31 weird shouldnt happen
20:04 RealBadAngel VanessaE, so basically theres no difference without shaders, thats very good
20:04 est31 neoascetic, minetest, or minetest_game?
20:04 RealBadAngel and that proved that i was right, not hmmmm
20:04 neoascetic minetest, without minetest_game
20:04 est31 update minetest_game then
20:05 VanessaE RealBadAngel: yeah - the difference seen in the chart is surely statistical noise
20:06 neoascetic I don't use minetest_game at all,  I build server without it. I guess, since minetest_game is just a game and NodeResolver is something engine-related, I shouldn't get this error?
20:06 neoascetic Here commands I am use to build the server: https://github.com/krondor-game/min​etest/blob/docker/Dockerfile#L4-L7
20:07 est31 neoascetic, games have to implement the features the engine offers them
20:07 VanessaE RealBadAngel: at least the differences between the two shaders-only and between the two no-shaders tests are insignificant.
20:07 est31 if they dont, the games have to get updated
20:08 est31 tell the game creator to register the mapgen_river_water_source mapgen alias
20:08 neoascetic I have no games installed <_<
20:08 VanessaE RealBadAngel: however as you can seethe shaders+bump+para performance does show a significant decrease without that =1 setting --- what was the setting in the old parallax code?
20:08 est31 so what do you play then
20:08 neoascetic minimum developer preview
20:08 est31 thats a game too
20:09 VanessaE minimal doesn't have river water, does it?
20:09 est31 no it doesnt have
20:09 est31 hrmm
20:09 est31 that has to be fixed
20:09 est31 thanks neoascetic for pointing out the bug
20:09 RealBadAngel VanessaE, there was no setting before. old code was just one step. with new ive introduced iterative parallax mapping
20:09 neoascetic wait a sec, maybe my issue
20:09 RealBadAngel for better quality
20:10 VanessaE I'm not sure about that - part of its purpose is to be extremely minimal, only enough nodes to create useful-for-testing terrain?
20:10 VanessaE RealBadAngel: oh ok.
20:10 RealBadAngel with setting it to 1 youre close to old parallax code speed
20:11 RealBadAngel still, theres a loop and conditions, that also affects performance
20:11 est31 VanessaE, there are two ways to resolve this bug, either require all games to implement river water, and add them to minimal, or to say that river water is optional
20:11 est31 and to replace the error print
20:11 est31 err remove
20:11 VanessaE est31: definitely "optional" imho
20:11 VanessaE dreambuilder has no use for river water, for example
20:13 proller joined #minetest-dev
20:14 est31 how is river water enabled again?
20:15 Calinou I don't like the idea of river water at all
20:15 Calinou it adds an unneeded node
20:18 est31 why not multiple water types?
20:18 est31 we already have multiple land types
20:18 est31 dirt, stone, sand
20:18 est31 gravel
20:18 est31 clay
20:19 VanessaE RealBadAngel: also bear in mind:  I pulled your PR apparently *just* before you squashed your commits
20:19 est31 can you make the conf.example cleanup in another PR?
20:20 est31 or commit
20:20 est31 or whatever
20:20 RealBadAngel VanessaE, that doesnt matter
20:20 est31 discussion on that should be separate
20:20 VanessaE RealBadAngel: didn't think so.  just felt I should mention it.
20:21 VanessaE est31: as for multiple nodes for a given terrain type, for something like water I just don't see the point - now if you were differentiating between SALT water and FRESH water, that would be different.
20:21 VanessaE but "river" water may as well be like saying "water with some silt mixed in"
20:21 VanessaE (which it clearly isn't)
20:21 est31 basically its that differentiation
20:22 VanessaE if it's a differentiation between fresh and salt, then the nodes should be so-named, with aliases to the old "water_source" and "water_flowing" names.
20:22 VanessaE otherwise it is confusing.
20:22 est31 sounds reasonable
20:23 VanessaE probably a "salinity" setting should be added to the node defs
20:23 Mikeonline est31: worldedit uses entity.
20:23 est31 no thats bad
20:23 VanessaE I can see the case of a modder wanting to create multiple different-salinity nodes and using those in some potions mod or something
20:23 est31 what stops you from making a "sand percentage" setting for land nodes?
20:24 est31 or "gold percentage"
20:24 est31 thats a nice concept
20:24 est31 but against voxelisatino
20:24 VanessaE in theory, nothing - one could already do that now.
20:25 est31 thats the next logical step
20:25 VanessaE but in this case, someone has already explicitly made the distinction between salt and fresh
20:25 est31 ?
20:25 VanessaE the two water types.  one is salt, one is fresh so you said.
20:25 VanessaE salinity affect things like buoyancy and corrosive capability
20:26 VanessaE affects*
20:26 est31 yea, and how much sand a block of earth contains affects whether its stable or not
20:27 VanessaE of course - but so does its rock and other minerals content
20:27 VanessaE but here, two pretty-much-identical nodes have been defined
20:28 VanessaE the same argument could have been made were there two types of dirt
20:28 VanessaE or two types of sand
20:28 VanessaE but there aren't.
20:28 est31 there are multiple types of land, why not for water too
20:28 est31 just because water flows
20:28 est31 and mixes?
20:29 VanessaE because two types of water is equivalent to two types of *land nodes* of the same category
20:29 VanessaE the analogy you're making only works if you also include ice
20:30 VanessaE then you clearly have two categories of water "terrain"
20:30 est31 why that
20:30 VanessaE why not?
20:31 VanessaE any distinction either of us make is gonna be arbitrary to some degree
20:31 est31 yes
20:32 est31 I guess this is one of the reasons why engine development makes more fun than mtgame development
20:32 est31 less preference discussions :)
20:33 VanessaE heh
20:42 Mikeonline going to figure that out tomorrow
20:42 Mikeonline n8
20:43 kaeza_ joined #minetest-dev
20:50 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/moR4koK1-aCs.png
20:50 RealBadAngel hows that?
20:50 VanessaE looks too rounded.
20:51 VanessaE the effect is otherwise good
20:51 VanessaE imho with something like default textures, it should be made possible to make the parallax edges perfectly straight
20:51 RealBadAngel without rounding the heightmap white pixels get on the sides of the bricks
20:51 VanessaE ah
20:51 VanessaE round it less? :)
20:52 RealBadAngel map is 256x, had to delete 3 pixels around the bricks then smooth it
20:52 VanessaE is this something you're doing with the generate-normalmaps feature?
20:52 RealBadAngel to get rid of white
20:52 VanessaE ohh
20:53 RealBadAngel im doing now the map manually in gimp
20:53 VanessaE ok
20:53 RealBadAngel code couldnt know that mortar (white) should go deeper
20:54 RealBadAngel still man has better shape recognition abilities than any code ;)
20:54 VanessaE true :)
20:57 RealBadAngel well, i managed to make sharper one
20:57 nore joined #minetest-dev
20:58 RealBadAngel hi nore
20:58 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/X00tvnJxKcrh.png
20:58 RealBadAngel any better? :)
20:59 VanessaE much.
20:59 RealBadAngel that looks like a good start for default parallax supporting tp
21:00 VanessaE yep
21:00 RealBadAngel lets check lower map resolution
21:03 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/E5oXwGQpQS8D.png <- 32x normal map
21:03 VanessaE too round.
21:03 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/1wUI_lwZxbWt.png
21:03 RealBadAngel thats 64x
21:03 VanessaE 64x is still a little too round... is the engine smoothing the maps?
21:03 VanessaE I mean is it interpolating
21:04 RealBadAngel all filters are enabled, have to be
21:05 VanessaE why?
21:05 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/PC0gNTQIybxR.png
21:06 RealBadAngel 64x without filtering
21:06 VanessaE ah, the moire patterns.
21:06 RealBadAngel i could eliminate them with much more iterations
21:06 RealBadAngel but filters are cheaper
21:06 VanessaE just out of curiosity, what happens with a 16x map and no filter?
21:06 RealBadAngel lol, just forget it
21:09 * VanessaE waits for a screenshot :P
21:09 * VanessaE predicts floating brick faces ;)
21:10 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/hz-gt8FqGPOA.png (thats actually 128x, my fav)
21:10 VanessaE wize ass ;)
21:11 RealBadAngel huh, im a bit suprised on 16px
21:11 VanessaE ?
21:11 Yepoleb joined #minetest-dev
21:11 RealBadAngel code works nicer than i expected
21:11 selat joined #minetest-dev
21:11 VanessaE let's see it
21:12 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/XNmWQ127W9wo.png
21:12 VanessaE heh
21:12 VanessaE looks like a cartoon
21:12 VanessaE and 16x without filters?
21:14 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/5U5-Dvvex4og.png
21:14 VanessaE ok, so as I figured.
21:14 RealBadAngel if i could eliminate that pattern it could be perfect
21:14 VanessaE I wonder if that's a rounding issue
21:15 VanessaE because, why red-grey-red-grey at the edge?
21:15 VanessaE it should be all the same color, whichever it is
21:20 VanessaE quality aside, look again at my benchmarks.  why does the engine need 4-5 GB more for bumpmaps (+parallax), on top of almost 10 GB already used for the textures?
21:20 VanessaE 'scuse me, 3-4GB more.
21:21 VanessaE there are only 1825 normalmap images in the texture pack
21:22 RealBadAngel propably because of overlays
21:22 VanessaE mmmh
21:23 RealBadAngel theres shitload of textures generated by mods
21:23 RealBadAngel such feature shall be strictly forbidden and using it punished badly
21:23 RealBadAngel ;)
21:23 est31 so that "improvement" is increasing minetest's memory footage by 50%?
21:23 VanessaE not.
21:23 est31 or 30
21:24 VanessaE est31: in HDX+dreambuilder yes
21:24 RealBadAngel which improvement?
21:24 RealBadAngel bumpmapping?
21:24 VanessaE but only if you turn everything on
21:24 est31 ok
21:24 est31 Ive thought you still were discussing the PR
21:24 RealBadAngel thats sick engine that allow modders to generate shitload of textures freely
21:24 VanessaE there needs to be some way for the client to only load textures from disk when they're needed.
21:24 est31 ^
21:25 RealBadAngel it should be that way: got an ore? make new texture for it
21:25 VanessaE and UNload them as appropriate too
21:25 RealBadAngel those overlays are killing the engine
21:25 est31 yes
21:25 est31 its the same as the rotation cache
21:26 est31 "mesh cache"
21:26 RealBadAngel thats actually very usefull
21:26 RealBadAngel but when you had thousands of mesecons nodes instead of single defs
21:27 RealBadAngel cache grows enormously
21:27 est31 then make a new drawtype
21:27 VanessaE wait wait
21:27 est31 cablelike
21:27 RealBadAngel thats the ONLY way
21:27 VanessaE stop talking about new drawtypes
21:27 est31 hehe
21:27 RealBadAngel sooner or later it will be done
21:27 VanessaE figure out the memory efficiently first.
21:28 est31 yes
21:28 est31 do both
21:28 est31 :)
21:28 RealBadAngel with this single change you will save hundreds of megabytes for sure
21:28 VanessaE doubt it
21:28 RealBadAngel i can bet
21:29 est31 a real good cache would be better I think
21:29 VanessaE mesecons, technic, etc only have a couple dozen relevant textures with no combine/compositing operators being used
21:29 est31 one that generates upon request.
21:29 VanessaE exactly.
21:29 est31 and off-loads if memory is exceeded
21:29 est31 either through a setting
21:29 RealBadAngel too complicated to handle
21:29 est31 or by monitoring the system
21:30 VanessaE RealBadAngel: it has to be done.
21:30 RealBadAngel proper  drawtypes will reduce mesh cache, nr of nodedefs, nr of textures needed
21:30 RealBadAngel also it will be hell faster
21:30 VanessaE meshgen in one thread (if it isn't already), texture loader + compositor in another, rendering in a third, high-priority one.
21:30 RealBadAngel same goes for those SICK signs
21:31 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
21:31 est31 yes, signs need engine support
21:31 VanessaE those signs ARE sick, but they're not the topic here.
21:31 RealBadAngel its the very same issue
21:31 VanessaE no
21:31 RealBadAngel monstrous ram eaters
21:31 VanessaE there are no high-resolution textures used for those
21:32 VanessaE the engine needs to have proper cacheing and ref counting
21:32 RealBadAngel no, it needs the drawtypes
21:32 RealBadAngel so cache wont be even needed at all
21:32 VanessaE if you generate a hundred interrim textures with compositing but you only ever display one, that's 99 textures that just sit there soaking up RAM
21:33 RealBadAngel cache wont help in such developed places like spawn areas on your worlds
21:33 RealBadAngel because render will DEMAND all of them at once
21:33 VanessaE why?
21:33 VanessaE not all of them are used.
21:33 RealBadAngel well, most of them
21:34 RealBadAngel thats why game sits down on its ass at your spawns
21:34 VanessaE at worst, maybe a quarter of the textures in HDX are being used in my spawn areas
21:34 VanessaE but not in my test world
21:35 VanessaE at most there are probably a couple hundred unique textures (after compositing)
21:35 VanessaE there's no reason that my test would should need 10-14 GB of RAM
21:35 kaeza joined #minetest-dev
21:36 VanessaE the same is true for any server or world where the user doesn't spend much time near heavily-developed areas.
21:36 est31 can you worldedit-cut a spawn area from your server?
21:36 VanessaE sure, gimme a few minutes.
21:40 RealBadAngel ha!
21:40 RealBadAngel got it:)
21:41 RealBadAngel ladies and gentelmen... here goes 16px texture with 16px normalmap and parallax..... aaaand.... https://imgrush.com/Eo-DY4OBQmnx.png
21:41 RealBadAngel voila!
21:43 VanessaE est31: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/creative-spawn.we
21:44 VanessaE this is roughly 100x100 nodes centered on VE-Creative's spawn
21:45 VanessaE (which is 2-3 times further out than I can normally see)
21:50 VanessaE brb
21:50 cib0 joined #minetest-dev
21:56 est31 only 68 nodes?
21:56 est31 that cant be
21:56 est31 my sed script is wrong
21:56 est31 cat creative-spawn.we | sed -n 's/.*\["name"\] = "\([^"]*\)".*/\1/p'
21:56 est31 that should extract all names shouldnt it?
21:57 est31 hrmm somehow it doesmt
21:57 est31 doesnt*
21:58 est31 ah yes
21:58 est31 limited sed line buffer
21:58 est31 tr , '\n' < creative-spawn.we  > cr does it
21:59 est31 and then doing the cmd on cr
21:59 est31 now sort | uniq
21:59 est31 704
22:00 est31 so, 704 different node types, of originally 113045 nodes
22:03 est31 hehe #2 of the most used node is 14640 moretrees:sequoia_leaves
22:03 est31 #1 is default:stone ofc
22:03 est31 #3 is 14250 default:dirt
22:03 est31 so here we are RealBadAngel
22:09 VanessaE told ya.
22:09 VanessaE 113045 is too high though, should be more like 16k or so
22:10 VanessaE or is that a total number of nodes in the file?
22:11 est31 total number of nodes
22:11 est31 excluding air
22:12 VanessaE oh ok
22:14 VanessaE RealBadAngel: the 16px texture with 16px normals looks very good
22:15 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/d_tRF2SiO3Hq
22:15 VanessaE NICE
22:15 VanessaE so what'd you change?
22:15 VanessaE (also, see est's numbers, above)_
22:17 RealBadAngel those numbers doesnt say anything about nr of textures generated, nodedefs etc
22:17 RealBadAngel which i was on my mind
22:17 RealBadAngel i had
22:18 VanessaE actually, they do.  at worst, there should be 6 * 704 == 4224 textures in use in that clip
22:18 VanessaE plus the signs, which there really aren't that many.
22:18 VanessaE est31: how many are there?
22:20 est31 VanessaE, https://gist.github.com/ano​nymous/afc7137fffbef1e2d5b4
22:20 VanessaE so around 200
22:20 VanessaE that's about what I expected.
22:21 VanessaE 202 of them... so worst case scenario, 4426 unique textures
22:23 VanessaE more likely, I would assume an average of 2 textures per node, not 6, so closer to 2000 unique textures
22:23 VanessaE and worst case usage there is 1MB per, so under 2GB
22:23 paramat joined #minetest-dev
22:24 est31 paramat, read the chat log about the river mapgen errors neoastetic had
22:25 paramat already have =) i will add river water to minimal then
22:25 VanessaE minetestmapper should be able to spit out a complete node list for the entire world (if you give it an empty colors.txt so that they're all undefined)
22:25 VanessaE (I'm curious how many unique nodes are used in the world)
22:26 paramat the issue is this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1840 harmless and hard to fix apparently
22:26 paramat the biome api node resolver expects certain nodes
22:27 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/NypL48D75WH8.png
22:27 RealBadAngel what do you think about adding such normals to mt game?
22:32 paramat looks like air, stone, water and river water are expected, those are the 4 base terrain nodes
22:34 paramat possibly also dirt and dirt_with_grass
22:34 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/mg_biome.cpp#L133
22:48 RealBadAngel VanessaE, i tried makin heightmaps auto generate, but thats not so good
22:48 RealBadAngel those have to be made based on shapes
22:48 RealBadAngel so hand made only
22:49 VanessaE that's what I figured
22:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: curious.  in that 16px test, what happens if you do iterations=1?
22:55 RealBadAngel layers
22:55 RealBadAngel irca 3 layers for scale 0.095
22:55 RealBadAngel *circa
22:56 VanessaE but, are they red-grey (in the case of bricks) or just layers of red brick that would show a jagged edge?
23:01 RealBadAngel layers of bricks
23:01 RealBadAngel im workin on the solution
23:01 VanessaE ok
23:02 RealBadAngel propably i will need to  add some ray marching
23:02 VanessaE I have a feeling that the only solution that'll result in perfect quality would be an extrude feature based off the heightmaps
23:03 VanessaE not unlike the one used to generate wielditems before kahrl's rewrite
23:03 RealBadAngel no, raymarching would be enough
23:03 VanessaE ok.
23:08 RealBadAngel 16px is not enough for bumpmapping
23:08 RealBadAngel but luckily we do have rdy code for that :)
23:08 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/br08SqViTF2k
23:09 VanessaE looks nice actually
23:10 VanessaE gtg
23:10 VanessaE bbl
23:10 RealBadAngel cya
23:38 kaeza Android port is quite usable now. to whoever it may concern, thank you
23:41 kaeza just one minor suggestion (I couldn't find how to do it if it's already done): add a button to show the console and reduce (or make configurable) the number of lines of on-screen chat
23:42 kaeza it occupies almost half the screen on my 4' phone
23:54 Gethiox joined #minetest-dev

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext