| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:12 |
|
crazyR left #minetest-dev |
| 00:44 |
Zeno` |
Is there a plan or "roadmap" for where minetest is heading? |
| 00:48 |
ShadowNinja |
Comments?: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1534 |
| 00:52 |
Zeno` |
https://github.com/ShadowNinja/minetest/blob/3aa6928387a862a71faa47be232534a55aa66fe8/builtin/common/serialize.lua#L134 <-- should that not np be outside of the loop so that it's not checked for every iteration? |
| 00:53 |
ShadowNinja |
Zeno`: How? And it's just a is_nil_or_false(np) check, so it should be very fast. |
| 00:54 |
Zeno` |
How? If np then for ... end en |
| 00:54 |
Zeno` |
Anyway it looks fine. I just dislike checking loop invariants (or what should be an invariant) |
| 00:54 |
ShadowNinja |
Zeno`: I'd have to duplicate both of those for loops, for maybe a few ns more speed. |
| 00:55 |
Zeno` |
np doesn't change inside the loop does it? /me looks again |
| 00:55 |
ShadowNinja |
Zeno`: I wish it could be better, but code duplication is worse, and it should be just about as fast as checking for he truth value of a bool. |
| 00:56 |
ShadowNinja |
(That is, faster than I care to optimize out if it's going to make the code any less simple) |
| 00:56 |
Zeno` |
Yeah that's fair enough. I just don't see how np can change. *shrug* |
| 00:57 |
Zeno` |
oh i see now |
| 00:57 |
Zeno` |
yep, good call |
| 00:58 |
ShadowNinja |
Good. :-) Keep looking though. :-) |
| 00:58 |
Zeno` |
Well from a C programmers perspective (not Lua or C++) it looks fine |
| 00:59 |
ShadowNinja |
And check https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1503 when you're done. It's pretty similar. (pun intended :-) ) |
| 01:02 |
Zeno` |
Speaking of mutually recursive functions, perhaps you could review my is_even() function http://codepad.org/lbha2sv2 |
| 01:02 |
Zeno` |
It's not particularly efficient though |
| 01:05 |
Zeno` |
dump() looks fine as well |
| 01:05 |
Zeno` |
is it a WIP? |
| 01:06 |
Zeno` |
If so, the thing that jumps out at me is cleanup_path() (which you haven't touched yet, I know) |
| 01:10 |
Zeno` |
I don't really understand how circular reference can occur |
| 01:11 |
Zeno` |
What scope does 'nested' have in Lua? |
| 01:12 |
Zeno` |
if it's "function scope" then I can't see how if nested[o] can ever be true because it's passed by the recursive call |
| 01:13 |
Zeno` |
But maybe you can explain it to me :) |
| 01:20 |
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| 01:21 |
ShadowNinja |
Zeno`: local a = {"foo"} |
| 01:22 |
ShadowNinja |
Er, local a = {"foo"} local b = {"bar", a} a[2] = b |
| 01:23 |
ShadowNinja |
dumb_dump(a) --> {"foo", {"bar", {"foo", {"bar", ...}}}} |
| 01:23 |
Zeno` |
ahh ok |
| 01:27 |
twoelk |
Zeno`: like this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9177 |
| 01:28 |
Zeno` |
twoelk, how did I miss that? Thanks |
| 01:30 |
twoelk |
may be somewhat personal. most users would probably say: less lag, more evil mobs ;-) |
| 01:31 |
twoelk |
I'd rather go with c55 though |
| 01:35 |
twoelk |
(the views might not differ that much at the end of the day) |
| 01:38 |
Zeno` |
It's something at least |
| 01:49 |
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| 01:52 |
Zeno` |
actually lag doesn't seem too bad |
| 01:52 |
Zeno` |
considering the amount of cpu i'm using hehe |
| 01:52 |
Zeno` |
oops, sorry wrong channel :/ |
| 01:55 |
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| 02:38 |
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| 02:44 |
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| 03:22 |
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| 03:23 |
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| 03:28 |
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| 03:28 |
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| 03:39 |
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| 03:42 |
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| 03:56 |
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| 05:05 |
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| 05:10 |
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| 05:44 |
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| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
agh |
| 06:04 |
hmmmm |
i never realized until just now that it really is not possible to have VoxelManipulators cut into the middle of a block |
| 06:06 |
hmmmm |
i also understand the whole point between the MapBlock::copyFrom -> VoxelManipulator::copyTo and vice versa thing. |
| 06:06 |
hmmmm |
wonder if i could, or should make it cleaner. |
| 06:52 |
Zeno` |
hmmmm, is it worth considering an equivalent of find_nodes_in_area() for vmanips? |
| 06:52 |
Zeno` |
Yes, I know it could be done in Lua :) |
| 06:53 |
hmmmm |
sure, if you implement it |
| 06:53 |
Zeno` |
Yeah, I'll give it a shot |
| 06:59 |
Zeno` |
I may have to put some thought into this. I'll yell out when I have a better idea of how it will work nicely |
| 07:00 |
hmmmm |
it would probably be a good idea to implement it both as an api and in lua and see how they compare |
| 07:00 |
Zeno` |
Ok, good idea |
| 07:01 |
Zeno` |
Lua is nice for C++ "pseudocode" anyway |
| 07:01 |
Zeno` |
That doesn't make sense... trying out things quickly I should have probably said |
| 07:26 |
RealBadAngel |
@copyright 2006-2997 Fabien Fleutot <metalua gmail.com> |
| 07:26 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 07:28 |
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| 07:44 |
Zeno` |
rofl |
| 07:45 |
Zeno` |
I wish there was a pre-processor for Lua |
| 07:45 |
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| 08:26 |
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| 08:51 |
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| 08:55 |
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| 09:20 |
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| 09:26 |
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| 09:27 |
BlockMen |
going to push this in 30 min https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/9e2f8a7b6a90a4ad03848d54269eba913acfbc3c |
| 09:33 |
RealBadAngel |
isnt ERT_FRAME_BUFFER used as default? |
| 09:34 |
BlockMen |
yes |
| 09:34 |
RealBadAngel |
so what for the change? |
| 09:34 |
RealBadAngel |
force rgba format? |
| 09:36 |
BlockMen |
force no alpha channel |
| 09:37 |
BlockMen |
but you are right, i could remove ERT_FRAME_BUFFER |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
and why you want the alpha to be gone? |
| 09:39 |
RealBadAngel |
reducin the size? |
| 09:41 |
BlockMen |
because it is a bug, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1451 |
| 09:41 |
RealBadAngel |
ah ok |
| 09:42 |
RealBadAngel |
so im ok with the change (you may skip ERT_FRAME_BUFFER or not, it doesnt really matters) |
| 09:43 |
crazyR |
just a though... how does this affect unix users. havent got much time now or id test it my self |
| 09:44 |
crazyR |
sorry i missread the comments lol |
| 10:01 |
RealBadAngel |
BlockMen, i have sorted out using of param2 MSB, for plants and other things |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
i will rework the pull for minetest_game today |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1601 |
| 10:03 |
RealBadAngel |
this reserves MSB for texture switching and removes usage of that bit from other drawtypes |
| 10:03 |
Zeno` |
bool(param2 & 64); ???? |
| 10:03 |
Zeno` |
is bool a c++ macro or something? |
| 10:03 |
Zeno` |
I don't like that |
| 10:04 |
Zeno` |
RBA: bool H_merge = ! bool(param2 & 64); |
| 10:04 |
Zeno` |
you like that expression? |
| 10:05 |
RealBadAngel |
macro? |
| 10:05 |
Zeno` |
I don't even understand how that works.... is it like !!(param2 & 64); ? |
| 10:05 |
RealBadAngel |
its boolean |
| 10:05 |
Zeno` |
bool(param2 & 64); <---- that's not a cast though |
| 10:05 |
Zeno` |
it's an.... a function? |
| 10:05 |
RealBadAngel |
param2 & 64 -> 0 or 1 |
| 10:06 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
(bool) makes it boolean |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
! negates |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
whats ur problem then? |
| 10:06 |
Zeno` |
you don't have (bool) (i.e. a cast) though |
| 10:07 |
RealBadAngel |
you may like it or not, but it works as expected |
| 10:07 |
Zeno` |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/284b33d16b290a327d42077968926a01c009e25d#diff-c03ca828c6b8a7695f2cd7e52c316a3cR777 |
| 10:07 |
Zeno` |
I've just never seen it |
| 10:07 |
Zeno` |
is it the same as (bool)(param2 & 64) ? |
| 10:08 |
Zeno` |
or, rather, !(bool)(param2 & 64) |
| 10:08 |
Zeno` |
I'm not criticising you! I've, really, just never seen your syntax before and am intrigued |
| 10:08 |
RealBadAngel |
negation is used to not let old mods use the feature |
| 10:09 |
RealBadAngel |
or rather mess up anything |
| 10:09 |
Zeno` |
I'm not worried about negation (that's obvious)... I'm interested in the method of casting that I've never seen before |
| 10:09 |
Zeno` |
It' |
| 10:09 |
RealBadAngel |
i can see nothing unusual with it |
| 10:10 |
Zeno` |
It's not C compliant, so it must be C++ |
| 10:10 |
RealBadAngel |
its just conversion from 0-1 to boolean |
| 10:10 |
RealBadAngel |
alsot that works for null, something |
| 10:11 |
Zeno` |
yeah I can understand what you're saying. I'm a C programmer, not a C++ programmer (necessarily). All I can say is that is not legal C, so it must be a C++ function and I'd like to learn about it |
| 10:11 |
RealBadAngel |
and btw, i never was coding in C |
| 10:11 |
Zeno` |
I know :) |
| 10:11 |
RealBadAngel |
i do code in C++ for over 20 yrs |
| 10:11 |
Zeno` |
*I* have never encountered it |
| 10:12 |
Zeno` |
I'm saying nothing about you... why do people always misunderstand me? :( |
| 10:12 |
RealBadAngel |
nah, im just explainin why thats obvious for me |
| 10:12 |
Zeno` |
but bool looks like a function |
| 10:13 |
RealBadAngel |
i can just say i learned C++ after asm |
| 10:13 |
Zeno` |
how... isn't that confusing? |
| 10:13 |
RealBadAngel |
not for me |
| 10:13 |
Zeno` |
bool(param2 & 64); <--- that looks, to me, like a function call (or function-like macro) |
| 10:14 |
Zeno` |
it's not a C-sytle cast anyway |
| 10:14 |
* Zeno` |
hunts around for his C++ book... I need to know how this works :) |
| 10:15 |
RealBadAngel |
this is def of local variable, a bool |
| 10:15 |
RealBadAngel |
whatever inside () is casted then |
| 10:16 |
RealBadAngel |
calculated, then casted |
| 10:16 |
Zeno` |
no no... the entire expression is: bool H_merge = ! bool(param2 & 64); |
| 10:17 |
Zeno` |
anyway, testing something |
| 10:17 |
RealBadAngel |
just test bool(0) or bool(1) |
| 10:17 |
RealBadAngel |
thats the whole point of this notation |
| 10:21 |
Zeno` |
http://codepad.org/ifrJsqE1 |
| 10:21 |
Zeno` |
I've just never seen the notation |
| 10:22 |
Zeno` |
so bool is a function as well as a type? |
| 10:23 |
Zeno` |
argh |
| 10:23 |
Zeno` |
I see... it's a constructor |
| 10:23 |
Zeno` |
ok |
| 10:23 |
Zeno` |
interesting |
| 10:24 |
RealBadAngel |
i never thought bout such things in sense of being interesting, it just works ;) |
| 10:25 |
Zeno` |
I guess |
| 10:26 |
Zeno` |
What's wrong with the more obvious (for us silly C programmers) http://codepad.org/fhSFeqc4 ? |
| 10:26 |
Zeno` |
http://codepad.org/dmyrE2Nx |
| 10:27 |
Zeno` |
Anyway, I've learned something today. Not sure I like what I learned but I learned it. Thanks. |
| 10:27 |
RealBadAngel |
it works |
| 10:27 |
RealBadAngel |
so nothing wrong i guess |
| 10:27 |
Zeno` |
So does the err... obvious way. I dunno |
| 10:27 |
Zeno` |
it just confused me :( /me cries |
| 10:28 |
RealBadAngel |
im using such casting all the time for many conditions |
| 10:28 |
RealBadAngel |
this applies mostly to bits and existence of the pointers |
| 10:29 |
Zeno` |
that's not casting though |
| 10:29 |
RealBadAngel |
it is |
| 10:29 |
Zeno` |
the "!" does however do an implicit cast |
| 10:29 |
RealBadAngel |
if else works on booleands |
| 10:29 |
RealBadAngel |
pointer can be null or an adress |
| 10:30 |
RealBadAngel |
so null becomes false, an address true |
| 10:30 |
Zeno` |
yep, same as C |
| 10:30 |
RealBadAngel |
same goes for bits |
| 10:30 |
Zeno` |
it's either 0 or !0 |
| 10:31 |
Zeno` |
I know how bit masking etc work: https://github.com/Zeno-/snippets/blob/master/Esieve.c |
| 10:31 |
Zeno` |
I... it doesn't matter |
| 10:31 |
Zeno` |
if that's something that C++ programmer use, then *shrug* |
| 10:33 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 10:33 |
Zeno` |
more bit stuff: https://github.com/Zeno-/snippets/blob/master/rand/randmt.c |
| 10:33 |
Zeno` |
I really haven't seen that C++ "idiom" before. Thanks for showing me |
| 10:33 |
Zeno` |
I still don't like it though hehe |
| 10:34 |
RealBadAngel |
every language out there have own ways i think |
| 10:36 |
Zeno` |
yeah |
| 10:53 |
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| 11:04 |
Zeno` |
RBA? |
| 11:04 |
Zeno` |
Would it be common in C++ to do something like: http://codepad.org/Kr32ePz9 |
| 11:07 |
Zeno` |
If not, then I humbly suggest your bool version of that int version is confusing |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:12 |
Kray |
what are you trying to do |
| 11:14 |
RealBadAngel |
Zeno`, yes it is common |
| 11:14 |
Zeno` |
really? But why? Actually, I don't wanna know :) |
| 11:14 |
RealBadAngel |
a type is being effictively casted onto another |
| 11:15 |
Zeno` |
that's not a cast though... it's invoking a constructor |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
if you want a rounding at the same time you should add +0.5 inside |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
i treat it as one |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
casting is a wrong word maybe |
| 11:15 |
Kray |
you are casting a double to an int |
| 11:15 |
Kray |
casting performs no rounding |
| 11:15 |
RealBadAngel |
conversion seems better |
| 11:15 |
Kray |
it just discards the decimal part |
| 11:16 |
RealBadAngel |
but int(value + 0.5) does the rounding |
| 11:16 |
Zeno` |
I just don't understand why you just wouldn't do int a = 4.8; |
| 11:16 |
Kray |
why would you do that |
| 11:16 |
Kray |
you can't store 4.8 in an integer |
| 11:16 |
Zeno` |
or, to be pedantic, a = (int)4.8 |
| 11:16 |
Zeno` |
Kray, look at the paste |
| 11:16 |
Kray |
i looked |
| 11:17 |
RealBadAngel |
(int)4.8 would result with value = 4 |
| 11:17 |
Zeno` |
It's simplified |
| 11:17 |
Zeno` |
yes it would, and should |
| 11:17 |
Zeno` |
so why confuse the matter by doing int a = a(4.8); ? |
| 11:17 |
RealBadAngel |
int (4.8 + 0.5) will do the rounding |
| 11:17 |
RealBadAngel |
4.8 is the variable here |
| 11:18 |
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| 11:18 |
Zeno` |
err, sorry... int a = int(4.8) |
| 11:18 |
Zeno` |
I don't understand, honestly, how that is useful |
| 11:18 |
RealBadAngel |
whatever is inside () have own types |
| 11:18 |
Kray |
you are invoking int constructor |
| 11:19 |
Zeno` |
but why invoke a constructor? |
| 11:19 |
Kray |
in practise that's the same as int a = (int)4.8 |
| 11:19 |
RealBadAngel |
constructor makes it all converted to desired type |
| 11:19 |
Zeno` |
when a = 4.8 + 0.5 does the exact same thing? |
| 11:19 |
Kray |
it doesn't |
| 11:19 |
Zeno` |
it does |
| 11:20 |
Kray |
int a = 4.8 + 0.5 doesn't do the same thing as int a = int(4.8) |
| 11:20 |
RealBadAngel |
4.8 would become 4, 0.5 0 |
| 11:20 |
Zeno` |
it does |
| 11:20 |
Zeno` |
try it |
| 11:20 |
RealBadAngel |
so 4 + 0 = 4 |
| 11:20 |
RealBadAngel |
not 5 |
| 11:21 |
Zeno` |
the RHS of the expression is evaluated first, then cast (implicitly) to int by the assignment |
| 11:22 |
Zeno` |
http://codepad.org/uxqynG8D |
| 11:22 |
Zeno` |
ok, C++ doesn't explicitly convert |
| 11:22 |
Zeno` |
I still see no need to invoke the constructor |
| 11:23 |
Kray |
the constructor is exact same operation as typecast |
| 11:23 |
Kray |
there is no actual constructor for primitive types |
| 11:23 |
Kray |
that's just another syntax |
| 11:24 |
Zeno` |
true |
| 11:24 |
RealBadAngel |
i really dont see here any problem |
| 11:24 |
Zeno` |
There is no problem RBA |
| 11:25 |
Zeno` |
I'm just saying I was confused by it |
| 11:25 |
RealBadAngel |
then get used to it :) |
| 11:25 |
Zeno` |
Coming from a C (mostly) background |
| 11:25 |
Zeno` |
Yeah, I might |
| 11:25 |
Zeno` |
Or I might not |
| 11:25 |
Zeno` |
lol |
| 11:25 |
RealBadAngel |
c++ is way better |
| 11:25 |
RealBadAngel |
it can overload everything |
| 11:26 |
RealBadAngel |
its not so strict as c is |
| 11:26 |
Kray |
in what way is it a good thing |
| 11:27 |
RealBadAngel |
coding language has to be flexible imho |
| 11:27 |
RealBadAngel |
and c++ is |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
I dunno... I like the C way |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
the rules of promotion (or demotion) are simple |
| 11:30 |
Zeno` |
*shrug* |
| 11:31 |
Zeno` |
hey don't get me wrong, I LOVE certain parts of C++ |
| 11:32 |
Zeno` |
and write C in a kind of "object oriented" way anyway |
| 11:33 |
Zeno` |
some parts just seem insane (to me) though lol |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
well, for embedded programming the C-style strings make more sense |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
And I suppose when C was first defined it made more sense in general as well |
| 11:36 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/309 ? |
| 11:40 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: looks good |
| 11:42 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, can you merge then or should i do later? |
| 11:46 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:26 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, i do have a question for ya, are you still active dev? |
| 12:28 |
Zeno` |
RealBadAngel, you've never asked *me* that |
| 12:31 |
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| 12:35 |
kahrl |
so why is LuaPseudoRandom so much slower than math.random? is it because of the safety checks? |
| 12:40 |
Zeno` |
math.random calls libc rand() so I guess it depends on what rand() does. In Linux, last time I checked, it uses hardware intrinsic calls (as well as /dev/random?) so it's much faster than it would first appear. I.e. LuaPseudoRandom() probably does some kind of lagged Fibonacci generator or linear congruential generator so even though it may seem simpler it may not be because it's not a part of cpu microcode |
| 12:40 |
Zeno` |
I might actually look at that tomorrow because it's quite interesting |
| 12:41 |
Zeno` |
I'll have to download latest glibc as well |
| 12:42 |
Zeno` |
last time I checked it's a bit like why memcpy() is much faster than the same O(n) loop implemented as a normal loop |
| 12:43 |
Zeno` |
(the CPU intrinsic call is of course O(n) as well, it's just so much faster because it's done via microcode... also memcpy does a small "warmup" to align) |
| 12:43 |
Zeno` |
So it's probably similar |
| 12:44 |
Zeno` |
I could be wildly wrong of course, but this is my guess |
| 12:44 |
Zeno` |
and it's probably right :P |
| 12:47 |
Zeno` |
It's also somewhat related to the perhaps counter-intuitive result that on modern processors inserting a value into a vector (array) is faster than inserting into a linked list |
| 12:49 |
kahrl |
wait, where does math.random use vectors or lists? |
| 12:49 |
Zeno` |
It doesn't |
| 12:50 |
kahrl |
(except the lua stack) |
| 12:50 |
kahrl |
ahh |
| 12:50 |
Zeno` |
but the reasoning is the same... modern processors do things at the cpu-level rather than ... a higher level |
| 12:50 |
kahrl |
I think the many branches are not healthy for LuaPseudoRandom's speed, but what you said could play into it too |
| 12:51 |
Zeno` |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQs6IC-vgmo |
| 12:51 |
kahrl |
although math.random converts the result of rand() to float... shouldn't that be extra slow? |
| 12:52 |
Zeno` |
not sure |
| 12:52 |
kahrl |
s/float/double even |
| 12:53 |
Zeno` |
depends how it converts to double I suppose... I really don't know |
| 12:54 |
Zeno` |
It's worth trying to find out though :) |
| 13:04 |
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| 16:23 |
Mikeonline |
is it possible to rename the directory where minetest was compiled after compilation? |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
it is! |
| 16:27 |
Mikeonline |
hmmmm: so this cant be the problem why minetest crashes |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
I saw your backtrace in #minetest - no, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. that is a real bug |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
...it happens, man. |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
is it consistently happening for you? |
| 16:28 |
Mikeonline |
http://pastebin.com/9ATwR3s2 |
| 16:28 |
Mikeonline |
thats the debug.txt |
| 16:28 |
Mikeonline |
ah yes you saw it |
| 16:28 |
Mikeonline |
the server crashed many times while we worked in this earea |
| 16:29 |
Mikeonline |
sometimes it crashed while i was setting positions with worldedit. sometimes while digging. i dont know when it happens exactly. |
| 16:29 |
Mikeonline |
but i cant reproduce it |
| 16:29 |
CraigyDavi` |
There seems to be a new issue...If someone dies and leaves the game without clicking the respawn button when they rejoin and there is a formspec upon join then that will close the death formspec too and they will be left with no health |
| 16:30 |
CraigyDavi` |
Maybe I should have phrased that better |
| 16:32 |
Mikeonline |
hmmmm: do you have any clue what kind of error this is? there is an assertion checking if something is as desired. |
| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
i can see the error, but i can't tell where it's happening and why |
| 16:34 |
Mikeonline |
i hoped it would be a bug because i renamed the directory. but so there is no clue whats up |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
no, this has absolutely nothing to do with that |
| 16:34 |
Mikeonline |
and the player was playing alone on this server |
| 16:35 |
Mikeonline |
do you know which values this assertions checks? |
| 16:35 |
Mikeonline |
do you know if this could be fixed from 0.4.10 to git? |
| 16:36 |
Mikeonline |
if i would upgrade from stable to dev |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
no, it won't be fixed. |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
Mikeonline, you might want to tell sapier about this once he comes back online. |
| 16:41 |
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| 16:41 |
hmmmm |
that was quick |
| 16:41 |
Mikeonline |
ok |
| 16:42 |
Mikeonline |
oops i closed a pull request on github accidently. can i undo this? |
| 16:42 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: I have to read a little bit more about those obb files my first impression is they're not exactly what we need. Your suggestion about using the cache is reasonable I didn't know about that beeing possible. |
| 16:42 |
Mikeonline |
ah there is :) |
| 16:42 |
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| 16:42 |
Mikeonline |
sapier: i should contact you about an minetest server crash |
| 16:42 |
Mikeonline |
sapier: http://pastebin.com/9ATwR3s2 |
| 16:43 |
sapier |
SharedBuffer, aren't thoes the buffers I have been told noone will ever use them from different threads? |
| 16:44 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: It looks like OBB files are really difficult to manage though, unless I'm missing some function it takes about 5 lines of code just to build the path to the main OBB. |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
sapier, it's related to your connection sending code |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
I thought so they make heavy use about them ... a gdb backtrace could bring more light into dark, or a way to reproduce it |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: I assume you meant obb files to replace our copy of textures & co am I right about that? |
| 16:45 |
hmmmm |
you share buffers all the time between ServerThread and ConnectionSendThread |
| 16:46 |
sapier |
hmmm not exactly they're serialized through a single queue |
| 16:46 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yep, the OBB would contain everything under the Minetest root but things like /bin and /cache. |
| 16:47 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: They might not be mutable though... |
| 16:47 |
sapier |
but how to add texturepacks or even download mods if we do it that way? |
| 16:48 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: I don't know. Dig around for a place where we can store mutable cross-user data. |
| 16:49 |
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| 16:49 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Things like worlds/ ($PATH_USER)will be in getFilesDir or so. |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
can you explain to me what you mean with "mutable cross-user data" ? |
| 16:50 |
ShadowNinja |
(That is, somewhere like /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.minetest.minetest/files) |
| 16:51 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Hmmm, we can make $PATH_SHARE = getObbDir(). |
| 16:51 |
ShadowNinja |
share doesn't need to be writable. |
| 16:51 |
sapier |
as I said I have to read more about what obb can do and what can't |
| 16:51 |
sapier |
in general I'm for using as much of android ecosystem as possible |
| 16:52 |
sapier |
and I'm sure I missed a lot of things as this was my first android port ;-) |
| 16:52 |
ShadowNinja |
Yes, it might be a little ugly. Also, splitting cache/ on Android and PC (FHS) would be good. |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
As I said cache is the thing I do fully agree with you if we have that option on android we should use it |
| 16:53 |
ShadowNinja |
You'll have to pass PATH_{SHARE,USER,CACHE} to Minetest. |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
obb ... well I just don't have enough knowledge about what is possible and what ain't |
| 16:54 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Reading up on OBBs have me a headache, but it seems like they're the *right* way to do this. |
| 16:55 |
sapier |
I'm not sure if "the right way" is always the right way for us too, if it was we wouldn't do a c++ app on android but rewrite it in java ;-) |
| 16:55 |
ShadowNinja |
When looking for mods/TPs/etc does MT check SHARE and USER? |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
I don't know especally that lookup is quite inconsistent |
| 16:56 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: No, pure java isn't the right way, it's far too slow (even MC mobile is written in C++. |
| 16:57 |
sapier |
don't tell this to google ;-) |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
but that crash is way more important for the moment |
| 16:59 |
ShadowNinja |
Google doesn't love Java, they just use it for Android because of portability (or so it seems). They use C++/C and Python a lot for other things. What crash? |
| 17:00 |
sapier |
that one Mikeonline reported, sadly information isn't very helpfull (at least by now) |
| 17:01 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Tell me if you find a complete/mostly complete usage example of OBBs, including mounting them. |
| 17:01 |
sapier |
I'll do but I have to do some other things first |
| 17:03 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Once you're done, Android should run init.lua with INIT instead of running mainmenu/init_android.lua (it misses some important things otherwise). |
| 17:21 |
PilzAdam |
https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/builds/34272556 <- looks bad, doesn't it? |
| 17:21 |
BlockMen |
PilzAdam, already on it |
| 17:21 |
BlockMen |
https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/cf3fce22d7ead202dfb54d1e756254e69693e142 |
| 17:22 |
BlockMen |
any comments or can i push it? |
| 17:22 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: see comment |
| 17:23 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, you mean raw_image |
| 17:23 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 17:23 |
sfan5 |
image too |
| 17:23 |
sfan5 |
you create it and then just assume it's not NULL |
| 17:24 |
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| 17:25 |
sapier |
ShadowNinja: no I will not run init.lua on android because it's crazy enough to always have to fix the broken compiler optimization I don't need another branch for a file to be able to debug the andoid menu on pc version |
| 17:25 |
sapier |
that's why we have a setting to specify your own menu |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
if you're gonna implement some fancy new stuff again make it work for this usecase too |
| 17:26 |
sapier |
I'm not gonna fix it this time |
| 17:34 |
BlockMen |
ok, going to push this now https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/f9742b109f7a0f30378a849f907eb38101b81854 |
| 17:35 |
sapier |
wait |
| 17:36 |
sapier |
snprintf(filename, 256 |
| 17:36 |
sapier |
use snprintf(filename,sizeof(filename) |
| 17:38 |
sfan5 |
sapier: sizeof(char*) is not 256 |
| 17:38 |
sfan5 |
or irr:c8 |
| 17:38 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: looks good |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
lol |
| 17:39 |
hmmmm |
sfan5, did you miss that filename is an array? |
| 17:39 |
sfan5 |
does sizeof work that way? |
| 17:40 |
hmmmm |
how could you be a developer so long and not know |
| 17:40 |
sfan5 |
you are confusing me |
| 17:41 |
sfan5 |
hmmmm: a quick google says sizeof(n) is the size of n in bytes |
| 17:41 |
sfan5 |
would actually be correct in that case since irr:c8 is a byte |
| 17:41 |
hmmmm |
no, it's the size in chars |
| 17:41 |
sfan5 |
chars are bytes |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
that so happens to be the case on common computing platforms |
| 17:42 |
hmmmm |
in the general case, however, that is incorrect |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
umm |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
what about this? http://stackoverflow.com/a/2215454 |
| 17:43 |
hmmmm |
in C and C++, a character is defined to be the smallest indidually addressable unit of memory. |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
IIRC sizeof(char) is guaranteed to be 1 |
| 17:43 |
hmmmm |
sure, that's true |
| 17:43 |
hmmmm |
but what is the meaning of the number returned by sizeof()? |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
the meaning? |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
the meaning. |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
I don't get what you mean. |
| 17:44 |
hmmmm |
what does the "sizeof" operator give you |
| 17:45 |
sfan5 |
size of the element in chars, bytes |
| 17:45 |
sfan5 |
or* |
| 17:45 |
RealBadAngel |
http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/sizeof |
| 17:45 |
sfan5 |
(which are practically the same) |
| 17:45 |
hmmmm |
not 'or' |
| 17:45 |
hmmmm |
and they're not practically the same as I just explained |
| 17:45 |
sfan5 |
wat |
| 17:45 |
sfan5 |
a byte is the smallest indidually addressable unit of memory |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
since the 1980s it's been defined as an octet |
| 17:46 |
sfan5 |
*sigh* |
| 17:46 |
hmmmm |
the times are a changing |
| 17:47 |
sfan5 |
I am not the type of person that would say a byte is not strictly 8 bits because some standard defintion says it may be >= 8 bits |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
the standard definition in C says that chars must be >= 8 bits |
| 17:48 |
sfan5 |
I am aware |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
again, it says "char", it does not use the term "byte" |
| 17:48 |
hmmmm |
in fact I don't think the C spec says "byte" anywhere |
| 17:49 |
RealBadAngel |
"Both versions return a constant of type std::size_t. " |
| 17:49 |
RealBadAngel |
std::size_t can vary |
| 17:50 |
sfan5 |
"1) returns size in bytes of the object representation of type." |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel: sizeof is a unary operator, not a function. it doesn't 'return' a value, the expression with sizeof applied is the result of the operation |
| 17:50 |
hmmmm |
sfan5, that is a quote from some scrappy website, not the official C++ spec |
| 17:50 |
sfan5 |
i know |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
so I'm saying although they got the gist of it, it's not technically 100% correct |
| 17:51 |
sapier |
sizeof() gives you the exact size in bytes of the object you specify no matter of which type it is |
| 17:51 |
hmmmm |
god dammit sapier |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
it gives you the size in chars! |
| 17:52 |
Krock |
What the fuck? current minetest build destroys Luamapgens |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
not bytes, chars! |
| 17:52 |
sfan5 |
I was trying to differentiate between what sizeof(foo) returns (as a type) and what sizeof(foo) returns (as a value) |
| 17:52 |
sapier |
well if char is defined to be 8 bit that's identical ;-) |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
sfan5: sizeof does not return anything, in the same manner as 5 + 4 doesn't return anything |
| 17:52 |
hmmmm |
the expression is the result of an operation with sizeof applied |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
hmmmm: s/returns/evaluates to/ |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
yes :) |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
sizeof() looks like a function |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
for me it returns stuff |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
it does, doesn't it? |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
you don't need the parentheses if that makes you feel any better |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
it's like doing -(x) |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
sizeof(x) |
| 17:53 |
hmmmm |
you can just write -x |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
I'm aware I don't need that |
| 17:54 |
hmmmm |
Krock: anyway, please elaborate... |
| 17:54 |
Krock |
hmmmm, screenshots coming |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
anyway |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
what were we doing? |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
BlockMen: did you merge it yet? |
| 17:54 |
sapier |
sizeof is usually evaluated by preprocessor |
| 17:54 |
BlockMen |
sfan5, no |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
sapier: always, you can't evaluate sizeof in runtime |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
sapier: always, you can't evaluate sizeof in runtime |
| 17:55 |
sfan5 |
oops |
| 17:55 |
hmmmm |
sfan5, you can have expressions that aren't evaluated by the language preprocessor that aren't evaluated at runtime |
| 17:55 |
hmmmm |
such as the result of 5 + 4 |
| 17:56 |
hmmmm |
preprocessors won't touch that, but you can't modify the value of the expression "5 + 4" on runtime |
| 17:56 |
sfan5 |
I'm talking about sizeof not any expression |
| 17:56 |
sapier |
I just wanted to be sure there's not someone writing his own "sizeof" function ;) |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
sizeof is a keyword, you can't create a function with that name |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
probably not a #define either |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
a regular sizeof is evaluated by preprocessor only true, and in this special case it's usage will prevent snprintf from becoming inconsistent to the real buffer size |
| 17:57 |
hmmmm |
i'm sure there are compilers out there that will let you #define it |
| 17:57 |
hmmmm |
heh |
| 17:57 |
sapier |
#define + - ... and have fun ;-) |
| 17:57 |
Krock |
hmmmm, http://imgur.com/QdjZ3rl http://imgur.com/zOrcc07 |
| 17:58 |
hmmmm |
Krock, I'm not sure how they're supposed to look |
| 17:58 |
Krock |
hmmmm, they should equal |
| 17:58 |
Krock |
older build is how it would look like |
| 17:58 |
hmmmm |
ah |
| 17:59 |
hmmmm |
well that's very strange |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
it's reproduceable |
| 17:59 |
hmmmm |
could i see your code? |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
hmmmm, https://github.com/SmallJoker/yappy ? |
| 18:00 |
hmmmm |
your code would be faster if you had the content ids in local variables and not in a table btw |
| 18:00 |
Krock |
hmmmm, but that's not the theme |
| 18:02 |
sfan5 |
Krock: s/theme/topic/ |
| 18:02 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 18:03 |
Krock |
sfan5, translate that stuff and you get the same words |
| 18:03 |
BlockMen |
im going to push my fix now (with sizeof()) |
| 18:03 |
sfan5 |
translate.google.com does not replace a dictionary |
| 18:03 |
hmmmm |
lemme download and try out your mod |
| 18:04 |
PenguinDad |
Krock: which theme do you use? |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
PenguinDad, john smith |
| 18:05 |
Krock |
hmmmm, reproduceable with any lua mapgen - the chunks get created and disappear one server step later |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
krock, what other mods do you have activated? |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
hmmmm, unified inventory |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
nothing else |
| 18:07 |
hmmmm |
well that's very strange because it's working for me |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
using dummy backend |
| 18:08 |
hmmmm |
gosh, that might be the issue |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
hmm? I thought it's cross-backend-compatible |
| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
i don't know, but it might be |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
are you using master? |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
yup. |
| 18:11 |
hmmmm |
well this is a lot harder because i'm not having your issue |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
compiled about 20 minutes ago |
| 18:11 |
PenguinDad |
hmmmm: it might also be a windows only bug |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
All I can say, MGv6 generates well on dummy |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
might be a VM problem |
| 18:13 |
hmmmm |
can you find the specific commit that caused this? |
| 18:13 |
Krock |
hmmmm, it takes me 30 minutes to compile it, so I won't check every single |
| 18:14 |
hmmmm |
you can bisect the commits... |
| 18:14 |
Krock |
bisect? |
| 18:14 |
hmmmm |
start with the last commit you were sure things worked fine |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
if the problem isn't there as you expect, test the commit in the middle between that commit and the most recent |
| 18:15 |
sapier |
does anyone know a way to read the cursor image in irrlicht? |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
if the problem is there, then look at the middle commit between that one and the least recent one |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
if the problem isn't there, then look at the middle commit between that one and the most current |
| 18:15 |
hmmmm |
repeat ad nauseam |
| 18:16 |
Krock |
hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e66bb9b8 and newer |
| 18:17 |
hmmmm |
well okay, then try 3fa4f782d90dac0d800251a9ab0f0afb9d32560c |
| 18:18 |
Krock |
hmmmm, and compile again? >.< |
| 18:18 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 18:20 |
Krock |
I did "git.exe reset --mixed 3fa4f782d90dac0d800251a9ab0f0afb9d32560c", notify if that's wrong |
| 18:21 |
hmmmm |
that should be fine |
| 18:22 |
Krock |
mhm msbuild doesn't notice the changes :/ |
| 18:22 |
hmmmm |
*shrug* do --hard then |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:28 |
Krock |
grr... can't change it back |
| 18:28 |
hmmmm |
then rebase upstream/master |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
great. I can't find any git shell *searchs one* |
| 18:34 |
Krock |
okay. Test results come in 30 min |
| 18:34 |
PenguinDad |
Krock: I can't reproduce it either |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
PenguinDad, try windows |
| 18:42 |
PenguinDad |
Krock: too expensive |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
PenguinDad, ReactOS, then |
| 18:56 |
Krock |
hmmmm, it works with the commit 3fa4f782d90dac0d800251a9ab0f0afb9d32560c |
| 18:56 |
Krock |
I take it back. It works for ~6 chunks and generates air out there |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
screenshot coming |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
hmmmm, http://imgur.com/sN1zB2n |
| 18:59 |
Krock |
hmmmm, seems like it got worse with the commits after it |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
hmmmm, it always happens when stuff is already generated in new areas |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
hmmmm, it seems like the mapgen skips modified mapblocks |
| 19:06 |
Krock |
exactly. they all have gravel inside |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:24 |
hmmmm |
Krock: so it works after 3fa4f78? |
| 19:28 |
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| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
im suprised how simple things are complicated in code |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
to pass pointed thing pos to mapblock_mesh one have to modify > 10 files |
| 21:11 |
kahrl |
huh |
| 21:11 |
kahrl |
why would you want to do that |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
i need that pos in animation |
| 21:12 |
kahrl |
oh, not on mesh creation, got it |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
same way as crack pos is passed |
| 21:13 |
kahrl |
yeah |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
im making highlighting of selected node |
| 21:14 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of selection boxes |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
can you please ensure this works on 3d mode too ... selectionboxes have been ugly enough ;) |
| 21:14 |
proller |
remaking mesh for it - very bad idea |
| 21:14 |
kahrl |
how can you do that with just animation? |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, at least i think so |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
i can apply brightness (or contrast) to vertex colors |
| 21:15 |
proller |
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44968 |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
so effect will be pulsating node |
| 21:16 |
kahrl |
but some vertices will belong to multiple nodes |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
but when i get vertices of the node i can simply copy them |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
i did that for cracks already |
| 21:17 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have cracked ones in separate list of vertices |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
so i dont need to overlay cracks on original textures anymore |
| 21:18 |
RealBadAngel |
i want the same for selections |
| 21:18 |
kahrl |
oh, so you're basically drawing the node twice, with the second time a bit larger than the first so there is no Z-fighting? |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, a slight offset |
| 21:19 |
kahrl |
I see |
| 21:19 |
kahrl |
I think the other voxel actually draws its cracks the same way (or used to) |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
got one problem with that |
| 21:19 |
kahrl |
because they don't have nore's camera repositioning code, sometimes the cracks disappear when you're far away from 0,0,0 ;) |
| 21:19 |
RealBadAngel |
cracks are displayed complete |
| 21:20 |
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| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
this is visible when "cracking" the plants especially |
| 21:20 |
kahrl |
other voxel game* |
| 21:20 |
kahrl |
RealBadAngel: yeah, I was wondering about that |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
still lookin for solution to that |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
what i can notice, this approach is way faster |
| 21:22 |
RealBadAngel |
no extra textures generated on the fly |
| 21:22 |
RealBadAngel |
crack, or the halo effect wont need original texture at all |
| 21:23 |
kahrl |
I think this problem is actually why all plants in the other voxel game break on punch immediately and don't crack |
| 21:23 |
RealBadAngel |
they avoided the problem this way |
| 21:23 |
RealBadAngel |
i had another idea |
| 21:24 |
RealBadAngel |
drop the cracks completely and use just particles |
| 21:24 |
RealBadAngel |
that could be major speed up for meshes |
| 21:24 |
kahrl |
no, people want to see how far they progressed in digging a node |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
at least it could be a setting then |
| 21:25 |
kahrl |
yeah, could be done |
| 21:25 |
kahrl |
makes sense for slow computers |
| 21:26 |
RealBadAngel |
if you will read animate section of mesh, its a bottleneck by now |
| 21:26 |
kahrl |
really? |
| 21:26 |
RealBadAngel |
yes, it still generates textures there |
| 21:26 |
kahrl |
when I wrote the first version of that, I was actually surprised that the game ran smoothly even if all meshes were animated on every frame |
| 21:26 |
RealBadAngel |
and is causing rising memory usage |
| 21:27 |
kahrl |
(that was before the calling code on animated some of the meshes each frame) |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
basically when you dig new node, code has to generate crack textures for that node |
| 21:27 |
RealBadAngel |
more you dig, more textures are generated |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
on servers with thousands of nodes.... |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
guess what happens ;) |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
if crack animation is 10 frames, for each face you have 60 different textures |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
*each node |
| 21:29 |
kahrl |
I suppose one could figure out a way to delete unused crack textures |
| 21:29 |
kahrl |
not easily of course |
| 21:30 |
RealBadAngel |
creating and deleting on the fly is not a solution |
| 21:30 |
RealBadAngel |
to create the texture takes too long |
| 21:30 |
kahrl |
not on the machines I tested it on |
| 21:30 |
RealBadAngel |
even VanessaE noticed that |
| 21:31 |
RealBadAngel |
she has kinda highend box |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
problem can be more visible and noticeable for texture packs >16px |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
and we are used to such ones |
| 21:33 |
RealBadAngel |
256x in my case, with normal maps |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
here multiplying the textures becomes a real problem |
| 21:34 |
RealBadAngel |
VE box is 16gb, sometimes it is not enough |
| 21:36 |
kahrl |
what if you use the offset solution for most nodes, and the texture creation solution for things with tranparency, such as plants? |
| 21:39 |
kahrl |
I do admit that most of the texture related code I write is optimized more for 16px, not HD (just because I don't feel the latter doesn't fit this type of game) |
| 21:39 |
kahrl |
see e.g. the extrusion code |
| 21:39 |
kahrl |
gah remove one of those negations :P |
| 21:51 |
RealBadAngel |
that could work |
| 21:51 |
RealBadAngel |
so only plants like could be slower |
| 21:55 |
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| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
but makin plants instant diggable is also a solution |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
well, workaround rather ;) |
| 22:01 |
kahrl |
well, you can't force that on every game and mod out there |
| 22:01 |
RealBadAngel |
yup |
| 22:03 |
RealBadAngel |
that could be easily done in shaders |
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