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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2014-09-02

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Time Nick Message
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00:32 iqualfragile celeron55: https://mineguild.net/mt/leafletmap/ reason i needed the coordinates
00:39 VanessaE do ABMs "stack up" when the server lags?
00:39 VanessaE or do they get skipped?
00:40 VanessaE (I get the impression that it's the former, and that they don't just "pile up" but perhaps even multiply beyond what the interval says they should)
00:52 crazyR ^thats an interesting point.
00:53 VanessaE I also get the impression that the engine is halving the intervals for ABMs
00:54 VanessaE a mesecons blinky plant has an ABM interval of three seconds yet it consistently switches in something between 1 and 2 seconds.
00:54 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/5ddCYBBR
00:55 VanessaE that variable is set to 3 in mesecons/settings.lua
00:56 VanessaE or maybe the ABms just get out of sync.
00:57 * VanessaE rewrites it.
01:01 crazyR lol
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01:09 VanessaE ok, that was just a bug in mesecons.  fixed in its git repo now.
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04:44 VanessaE is this OOM crash useful to anyone?  http://pastebin.com/JP7jaTxk
04:44 VanessaE came up suddenly, out of nowhere.  The server was ticking along fine, a couple users were just digging stone, then suddenly, boom, the server allocates everything it can get its mitts on and down it goes.
04:45 VanessaE this is all I got out of it, from kern.log (and the corresponding "Killed" message in minetest's log of course)
04:49 VanessaE times in the log are EDT.  Server was running from git a few commits behind (not exactly sure what commit, I just updated again a little bit ago.  at HEAD now)
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05:42 * VanessaE wanders off to bed.
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06:00 hmmmm hmmm
06:00 hmmmm anyway I keep getting those "attempt to do arithmetic on 'y' a nil value" errors with splizard's mod
06:01 hmmmm and I noticed he never actually declared 'y' in the scope it's used.  wonder if that has anything to do with it.
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08:00 Zeno` Does anyone have write commit to https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper?
08:01 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/co​mmit/b7f0a8a29a54e058b78b095259afc96af4337f41 seems wrong to me
08:07 Zeno` err... very wrong
08:10 Zeno` http://codepad.org/l6FylgFH        <-- top function is the latest commit
08:10 Zeno` with annotations
08:14 Zeno` grr, I'll open an issue then
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12:35 RealBadAngel joined #minetest-dev
12:36 RealBadAngel hi
12:36 RealBadAngel whats uP?
12:37 * Zeno` looks up
12:37 Zeno` ceiling
12:38 PenguinDad Zeno`: but it looks like the ceiling can't hold us ;)
12:39 Zeno` always the way
12:44 RealBadAngel i just took a few days off, gonna spend it on coding
12:45 RealBadAngel there are a few things to be finished
12:46 RealBadAngel and the music... yesterday i was selecting the tracks to be used
12:46 RealBadAngel got like 20 of them
12:48 Zeno` oooh, for the menu?
12:48 Zeno` ;-)
12:50 RealBadAngel for whole game
12:50 RealBadAngel example die theme: http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free​/mp3-royaltyfree/Rains%20Will%20Fall.mp3
12:53 sfan5 >mp3
12:53 sfan5 320k
12:53 sfan5 thats ok
12:54 RealBadAngel i will convert them all to oggs and reduce the quality
12:54 sfan5 reducing the quality is even worse
12:55 RealBadAngel folder with the tracks selected is about 600mb by now
12:55 RealBadAngel 128kbps is enough imho
12:55 sfan5 128k vorbis
12:55 sfan5 I'm not sure
12:59 Zeno` sfan
12:59 Zeno` I don't like parenthesis where they're not needed :P
12:59 sfan5 submit a pull requets
12:59 sfan5 request*
12:59 Zeno` hah
13:00 Zeno` Nah, not necessary :)
13:00 sfan5 and see how nobody wants to merge it
13:00 sfan5 because it's not a change that fixes anything
13:00 Zeno` sigh. Nobody does x = 1 + (2 * 3) surely
13:00 Zeno` or maybe they do, I dunno
13:00 sfan5 uh
13:01 sfan5 it's x = 2 * (3 + 4)
13:01 Zeno` yes, there parenthesis are required though
13:01 Zeno` I don't understand why people get confused about precedence
13:02 sfan5 I still do not know whether a - (b % c) and a - b % c are the same
13:02 Zeno` they are
13:02 sfan5 good to know
13:02 Zeno` yep
13:02 Zeno` same as a - b*c is the same as a - (b * c)
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13:03 Zeno` anyway, glad it's fixed
13:03 Zeno` thank you
13:03 sfan5 are you implying I haven't learned anything in maths?
13:03 sfan5 ;)
13:03 Zeno` err.... no
13:03 Zeno` lol
13:03 Zeno` At least I don't think I am
13:03 Zeno` Just a pet hate of mine lol
13:04 Zeno` See, parenthesis confuse me :(
13:05 Zeno` oh another pet hate of mine!
13:05 Zeno` get rid of that else?
13:05 sfan5 celeron55: if you have a minute of free time: please tell github support to make minetest/minetestmapper an independent repo
13:05 Zeno` I hate functions that return a value having no return value outside of conditionals
13:05 sfan5 Zeno`: parenthesis is not supposed to confuse people
13:05 Zeno` lol
13:05 Zeno` they confuse me
13:06 Zeno` when they're not needed they confuse me*
13:06 Zeno` I'm a bit strange though
13:06 sfan5 ((q^(a - (b * c))) / q) + n
13:06 sfan5 that would be overly verbose
13:06 sfan5 but is not that confusing
13:07 sfan5 at least for me
13:07 Zeno` and I see a + (b * c) just as verbose, but unlike you it makes me wonder :(
13:08 Zeno` anyway, aside from that a function that returns a value should return a value
13:08 sfan5 -Wall would complain if it doesn't return anything
13:08 Zeno` without me having to mentally evaluate conditions
13:08 Zeno` does -pedantic complain?
13:08 sfan5 dunno
13:08 Zeno` hehhehe
13:09 Zeno` It probably doesn't
13:09 sfan5 I never use -pedantic
13:09 Zeno` I do, it's my favourite word
13:10 Zeno` I suppose these days the compiler will optimise away the needless else
13:10 Zeno` *sigh*
13:10 Zeno` I probably need to talk to the gcc people and ask them to add a -superpedantic option
13:11 celeron55 sfan5: can't you do that?
13:11 sfan5 I'm not sure
13:11 sfan5 I dunno whether github support is strict about access modes
13:11 sfan5 and stuff
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16:29 ShadowNinja hmmmm: minetest.set_data -> minetest.set_node.  VoxelManip(min, max)/mt.get_vm(min, max) seems good.  Also, is the data re-pushed every time get_data is called?  At least the mapgen VM could store the data in a global or registry table.  get_data would return a reference to it and set_data would just do `(core / debug.getregistry()).mapgen_vm_data = data` until all callbacks had run.  One side effect of this would be that you can't modify
16:29 ShadowNinja the data and then discard the changes, but I don't think there's a good reason to ever do that.
16:29 hmmmm what??
16:30 ShadowNinja sfan5: What do you mean by "make it an independent repo"?
16:31 ShadowNinja hmmmm: In your set_node+VM fix you called set_node set_data.
16:32 hmmmm erm okay
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17:37 Krock hello?
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20:34 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1601
20:35 RealBadAngel this one makes tiles and special_tiles switcheable by MSB of param2
20:35 RealBadAngel it works for all the drawtypes
20:37 hmmmm not really sure what that does... could you elaborate?
20:38 RealBadAngel special tiles were extended lately to hold 6 textures
20:38 RealBadAngel same as regular tiles
20:38 RealBadAngel so now node can have 2 sets of textures
20:39 RealBadAngel all the nodes that previously required two definitions (like on/off state) can be done with just one def
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20:40 RealBadAngel switching is as fast as toggling MSB of param2
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20:46 VanessaE RealBadAngel: you still need to add light source to the "special" switch, else things like the default furnace can't use it.
20:46 VanessaE (or mesecons, or a lot of other stuff that gives off light when turned "on")
20:48 VanessaE that's the most common case of an on-off switch in the default game and most mods - an item is "off" with some "base" set of textures and gives off no light, and its "on" counterpart has a slightly different set of textures (e.g. the animated flame in the furnace) and also gives off some amount of light.
21:01 RealBadAngel VanessaE, lighting thing is subject for another code
21:01 RealBadAngel this resolves usage of param2's MSB
21:02 VanessaE fair enough.
21:02 RealBadAngel it was already used in 2 drawtypes, i had to fix that
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21:06 RealBadAngel for light i will have to add new property for nodes
21:06 RealBadAngel and change a bit lighting code
21:07 RealBadAngel it will be controlled also by same bit, but place where changes have to be done is completly different
21:07 RealBadAngel also, we do need another method to change param1 and param2 values
21:08 RealBadAngel swap_node is just not right,  since we do need just a bit toggling
21:08 VanessaE as opposed to the thing we discussed about extending swap_node() ?
21:08 VanessaE right
21:08 VanessaE what's your plan?
21:08 RealBadAngel add the lighting alternative
21:09 RealBadAngel all will gonna work with swap_node too
21:09 VanessaE I mean from the API standpoint.
21:09 VanessaE if swap_node() is not appropriate, what would be?
21:09 RealBadAngel and then make proper param2 handling
21:09 RealBadAngel it is useable
21:09 RealBadAngel but its like shooting a fly using the cannon
21:10 VanessaE that's...direct :P
21:10 RealBadAngel also, bitops for lua starts to scream out loud
21:10 VanessaE yes
21:11 VanessaE but that's a task for another day :P
21:11 RealBadAngel screwdriver will have to be redone
21:11 VanessaE it already needs redone.
21:11 VanessaE it's a royal pain in the ass to use sometimes :P
21:12 RealBadAngel we need a group maybe?
21:12 VanessaE a group?
21:12 RealBadAngel allow use/dont allow
21:12 VanessaE well yes but that's something for later
21:12 VanessaE when I say pain in the ass, I mean from an actual usability standpoint
21:12 RealBadAngel and primarily, MSB is RESERVED
21:12 RealBadAngel i mean params2
21:12 VanessaE yeah
21:13 RealBadAngel it cannot be used by anything else
21:14 RealBadAngel 5th and 6th can be still used for some cases
21:15 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so, are you ok with the pull?
21:22 RealBadAngel <VanessaE> hmmmm expressed extreme concern about that
21:23 VanessaE ^^^^^ re: colored lights
21:23 RealBadAngel so hmmmm, eat this: http://i.imgur.com/wHjL1dJ.png ;)
21:23 * VanessaE hands hmmmm some ketchup
21:27 RealBadAngel btw, i do need a nice, very nice location in the world
21:28 RealBadAngel and a seed for that
21:28 RealBadAngel i want to make camera slowly rotate 360degs and record the scene
21:29 VanessaE my test world is nice, one moment please.
21:30 VanessaE Dreambuilder
21:30 VanessaE seed = 5131391305046360830
21:30 VanessaE from somewhere near coords {31,1,-123}
21:31 VanessaE (you might want to hover over the water nearby just a bit, say at about {60,1,-124}
21:31 RealBadAngel i might need non modified world
21:32 RealBadAngel without things not aviable in minetest_game
21:32 VanessaE oh, well not sure then.  ridges and cliffs are the most impressive in plain minetest and there aren't many of those in that map
21:32 VanessaE lemme look around a bit
21:33 VanessaE here we go..
21:34 VanessaE seed = 7925619193200587662
21:34 VanessaE coords {-25,8,-208}
21:34 VanessaE vanilla minetest_game
21:34 VanessaE turn jungles on for best results.
21:40 VanessaE bbl
21:41 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: MSB of param2 is used for things like rotation.  It will cause conflicts.  Besides, n*(1/2) is better, but not nearly as good as 1 (meta node def).
21:54 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, no, its not used anymore
21:55 RealBadAngel that commit cleans the things
21:55 RealBadAngel also, whatever nore will do bout meta node def, it will be never as fast as this one
21:57 RealBadAngel its not supposed to replace meta node def at all
21:58 RealBadAngel i want it to be blazing fast for some certain cases
21:59 sapier hope not by making it snail slow for some other case ;-)
21:59 RealBadAngel sapier, no can do
21:59 RealBadAngel it is fast
21:59 RealBadAngel no matter how much such nodes are there
22:00 sapier well I don't exactly know what you're talking about but "blazing fast for some certain cases" did sound dangerous ;-)
22:00 RealBadAngel its a simple switch for another tileset
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22:00 RealBadAngel all the textures at this point are cached and assigned
22:00 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Rotation has to be changed then.  0-179 is too much, it has to be limited to 127.
22:00 sapier aren't all textures cached anyway?
22:01 RealBadAngel now yes, previously calls were made on demand, in refresh of mapblock
22:01 RealBadAngel i have forbid that
22:01 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, please read the pull
22:02 RealBadAngel rotation is hold in 7 bits, scaled to cover 360degs
22:03 sapier how many bits of precision do we loose?
22:04 RealBadAngel i wont be crying bout that
22:04 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: It incompatibly changes them.
22:04 RealBadAngel no
22:04 RealBadAngel it wasnt used yet
22:05 sapier actually most important is 45° still have to be 45° not 45.5 or even 46° ... same for 90 and 180
22:05 RealBadAngel pull for game hangs there for weeks already
22:05 RealBadAngel sapier, wrong
22:05 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: Perhaps not in minetest_game, but likely in others.
22:05 RealBadAngel it cannot be -45 and +45
22:05 sapier why not?
22:05 RealBadAngel textures do overlay and flickers then
22:06 RealBadAngel it was visible on jungle grass
22:06 sapier why?
22:06 RealBadAngel thats why we do have 44 and 46
22:06 sapier sounds extremely strange
22:06 RealBadAngel why?
22:06 RealBadAngel extremaly strange it was lookin
22:07 sapier why doesn't 45° work? some other undetected numeric error?
22:07 RealBadAngel no
22:07 RealBadAngel attempts to draw 2 textures at the very same plane
22:08 RealBadAngel and depending on the angle of view one was winning
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22:08 sapier strange enough using degrees instead of radians notation
22:08 sapier still things like 2.834645669 need a define and a name
22:08 twoelk not some moire effect?
22:08 sapier why is it 2.834645669 and not 2.834644669
22:09 RealBadAngel 360/127
22:09 RealBadAngel not so complicated :P
22:09 sapier then write it that way not as float
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22:09 RealBadAngel param2 is not a float
22:09 sapier 360.0/127.0
22:09 sapier preprocessor will calculate it and ppl reading it will know what it's supposed to do
22:10 RealBadAngel ok
22:10 RealBadAngel that i can do
22:10 sapier but first is param2 directly available to mods?
22:10 RealBadAngel ofc
22:10 RealBadAngel but with node_swap as by now
22:11 sapier then you need to fix lua api to stay compatible to old mods
22:11 RealBadAngel we do need method that will be able to set it without swapping the node actually
22:11 RealBadAngel what for?
22:11 sapier don#t you change the meaning of param2?
22:11 RealBadAngel from the point of view of old mods nothing has changed
22:11 RealBadAngel no i havent
22:12 sapier so if a mod set 90° that value will still be 90°?
22:12 RealBadAngel all old meanings are still valid
22:12 sapier will they look same too?
22:12 RealBadAngel there are no such mods yet
22:12 sapier without proof for this claim I don't accept it
22:12 RealBadAngel feature (plantlike rotation) was never used before
22:13 RealBadAngel im the author of the feature and i say it was never used before
22:13 sapier if that feature was part of the current api it's quite silly to telL "it's not been used so just change it's meaning" sorry
22:13 RealBadAngel are you joking?
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22:14 RealBadAngel it is not used yet
22:14 sapier no I'm not, it's irrelevant if you are author or not did you check all the mods out there if they do use it or not?
22:14 sapier it's easy to tell "noone uses it" ...
22:15 RealBadAngel i fucking say nobody but me
22:15 sapier how do you know?
22:15 RealBadAngel because it is not merged into minetest_game yet
22:15 sapier what's minetest_game related to core api?
22:16 RealBadAngel because mods have to use the feature?
22:16 sapier first of all was it part of 0.4.10 if not we don't have to discuss any further
22:16 RealBadAngel otherwise nothing will change
22:16 RealBadAngel no it wasnt
22:16 RealBadAngel its after 0.4.10
22:17 RealBadAngel at least afaik
22:17 sapier ok ... in this case it's never been part of api so we can change it
22:17 sapier well don't lie to me
22:17 RealBadAngel need to check
22:17 RealBadAngel hold on
22:17 RealBadAngel 22.07.2014 00:32
22:18 sapier meaning?
22:18 RealBadAngel date of the change
22:18 sapier post 0.4.10
22:18 sapier so change it to whatever you want
22:19 RealBadAngel ok
22:19 sapier and if you didn't write a doc for last one do it now ;-)
22:20 RealBadAngel i will write a doc for drawtypes, they do need that
22:20 RealBadAngel all of them
22:20 sapier even better
22:26 RealBadAngel i need to add some new properties for nodes before i can do that
22:26 RealBadAngel also that set_param2 method has to be done
22:27 sapier properties nodes? why do all of your changes sound like compatibility issues? ;-)
22:28 RealBadAngel i dont think so, all the old mods will work as usual
22:28 RealBadAngel until they decide to use new features
22:28 RealBadAngel im extremaly carefull bout that
22:28 sapier what's gonna happen to clients connecting to servers using the new features?
22:29 RealBadAngel nothing
22:29 sapier not showing the new ones is fine, crashing or not showing old things too not ;-)
22:29 RealBadAngel plants wont be rotated for example
22:29 RealBadAngel same as before
22:29 sapier that's be fine
22:29 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  lgtm, it's just that I wish you would use constants for bits
22:30 RealBadAngel instead of & 128 ?
22:30 hmmmm yes
22:30 sapier ot 1<<8
22:30 sapier or was it 7 ... never can remember that one ;)
22:30 hmmmm really what is wrong with #define NODEFLAG_SPECIAL_TILES 0x80?
22:30 hmmmm sapier, 7...
22:30 RealBadAngel well, nothing :)
22:31 hmmmm erm, no, it'd be 6
22:31 hmmmm 2^7 = 1 << 6
22:31 sapier :-) I always use a calculator to be sure :-)
22:31 hmmmm erm
22:31 hmmmm crap
22:31 hmmmm 1 << 7
22:32 sapier well it's been meant as example no matter what the real value is :-)
22:32 hmmmm 2 << 6 == 2^7 is what I meant to say
22:32 sapier depends on situation anyway sometimes 1 << X is better next time 0x80 ... next time 32 .... context is the thing to decide about what to use
22:33 hmmmm i dunno, for defining bit constants i like to use 0x80
22:33 sapier but ... constants are (almost) always better then numbers, especially float numbers noone knows about their meaning
22:35 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  so how'd you do the colored lighting?  dynamic lights?
22:36 hmmmm dynamic lights are neato but i thought the idea was to use lightmaps
22:37 RealBadAngel those are irrlicht light sources
22:37 RealBadAngel not ours
22:55 RealBadAngel im pretty close to mix two approaches for lighting
22:56 RealBadAngel use dynamic lights to actually lit the scene
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22:56 RealBadAngel and the old one, but stripped down to make light level calculations
22:58 RealBadAngel definitely soon and moon gonna be dynamic sources
22:58 RealBadAngel im not yet sure bout torches etc
23:15 gentoobro will we get fancy dynamic shadows perhaps? i don't even care if they are exactly representative of light level...
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