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| 03:19 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Would we want a vulkan render backend in minetest-rust? |
| 03:19 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I just want some sort of approval, even "eh yeah I guess" |
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MTDiscord |
<paradust> you might be interested in: https://arewegameyet.rs/ecosystem/3drendering/ |
| 15:08 |
celeron55 |
you need to select something for graphics and input and windowing and whatnot that's portable, robust and appropriate well into the future |
| 15:08 |
celeron55 |
and also works right now, and also works on older hardware |
| 15:10 |
celeron55 |
(if you have to drop one of those aspects, then drop older hardware) |
| 15:11 |
celeron55 |
(you aren't making anything that the regular joe would even know exists until after many years have passed. you need to be very, very forward looking) |
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| 16:00 |
MinetestBot |
[git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest_game: Update README.md for 5.8 b9c0894 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/b9c089474cc343b37f90cb8cefc4b5553af2e9ea (2023-12-17T15:57:57Z) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] JosiahWI -> minetest/minetest: Extract Game::drawScene from Game::updateFrame 7162b53 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7162b536eb43c70f41cac1403323e128e66cef19 (2023-12-17T19:44:45Z) |
| 19:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] grorp -> minetest/minetest: Add `touch_controls` boolean to `get_player_window_information()` (#1… 91ba024 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/91ba02449bd6649f15730520c12d8d2d8031b6b0 (2023-12-17T19:47:07Z) |
| 19:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: MinGW toolchain refresh 5d3e830 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5d3e83017679317c27fe02b7087effd9d67f79cc (2023-12-17T19:47:26Z) |
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| 23:08 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> c55 I'm gonna do something really, very dumb |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I'm gonna remake the current progress for minetest-rust in go so you can see side by side in the two languages to see which flavor you like better |
| 23:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Go seems like a decent idea tbh |
| 23:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Go's garbage collector is actually advanced enough to the point where it can guarantee that pauses aren't too bad |
| 23:11 |
rubenwardy |
I was about to say that you'd be more productive if you focused on something rather than rewriting things into every language under the sun... but I'm not one to talk |
| 23:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that is still a valid point |
| 23:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> however, under the premise that we're gonna port stuff, i think a go port would at least initially be much less work than a rust port :P |
| 23:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I'd literally rewrite the entire project into pure luajit/bun/deno but that would simply make everyone equally angry and it would be DOA |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the thing is: Minetest's code base is very massive |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 200 kloc of finest C++ iirc |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if you consider Irrlicht even more |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> It's massive because we're jumping through hoops to have elements duct taped on |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> now fair, let's say half the code is c++ bullshit |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> and let's say your able to port 1kloc a day |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you'd still have to work 100 days full time |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> just for feature parity |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I do not want to do a direct port lmao, if I do a direct port we end up with an over complicated code base with memory leaks in another language |
| 23:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so you want to write another engine, let's call it crafter? |
| 23:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I want feature parity, even if that initial goal is 0.3.1 |
| 23:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> protocol-level? lua api level? |
| 23:15 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Surface level, 0.3.1 didn't even have a lua implementation, but that can be the goal from the base, 0.3.1 but it uses a modified implementation of minetest's lua api |
| 23:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so should your client be able to talk to a Minetest server and vice-versa? |
| 23:15 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Absolutely not, this will be the hard reboot |
| 23:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so.. what does this have to do with Minetest then? |
| 23:18 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Just like windows 2000 transferred to NT architecture and still felt like windows 98, minetest-next will have the same iteration |
| 23:22 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> But now, I have lost the drive to do the side by side and I'll just keep writing the rust base |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> don't get me wrong, i'm not saying this is a bad idea, but i think it will have to stand on its own, just like Qub3d (which unfortunately failed) |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> not every libre voxel game platform / engine has to be tied to minetest |
| 23:34 |
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| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> I think the idea is much like making (a multiple year supply of) free cookies for everyone for free. - If you make a much better Minetest (which is probably quite doable, considering its state is literally that of Keith, the c++ mascot), everyone will LOVE IT! - On the flip side, you will have invested years of your life, without much "real" return. People will know you built it and respect you for it, that's basically it. - Thus, |
| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
either you REALLY LOVE THE IDEA that much that you are willing to invest massively, for the sake of it, OR you should ABANDON IT, because if you don't really love it you will do so anyway sooner or later, for good. |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I think you guys are thinking about the premise of minetest-rust a bit too hard |
| 23:37 |
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| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> One question remains: @Sr. Christmas Researcher (MD), do you take your Minetest project for your lawful project, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death or file loss do you part? |
| 23:41 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Hmm, well it seems I still have 220 other projects in my git repos, so I think we can rule out file loss |
| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Maybe they could lock me into the lang by making me the core dev of the minetest/minetest-rust repo |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> https://tenor.com/view/dog-eyebrow-funny-eyebrow-raise-gif-13185653 |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> The point is that such idealistic mega projects are just like marriages, they are pursued for themselves, they stretch for years, go through good and bad times, usually there are near breakups due to attractive side projects... So you really have to ask yourself the question: Do you? Really? |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> Because just like a failed marriage is no good, a failed megaproject is no good either. |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> If you think about it like that, we probably wouldn't even have linux, or windows, or like anything. "Too much work" |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You take it step by step |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Not to say you don't think forward, but you do not think about it as a whole, you must take the unix approach and treate each of your modules as a program |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> Just like a successful marriage. |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> ~e |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> ? |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I called the destructor on e |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> And why? |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Because when you edit your message it doesn't get reflected into the irc |
| 23:53 |
MTDiscord |
<kaigerdmuller> np. |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I need moar caffeine |
