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IRC log for #minetest, 2023-11-15

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Time Nick Message
00:01 MinetestBot [git] srifqi -> minetest/minetest: Make text containers wider in the Volume Change dialog (#13995) aa912e9 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/aa912e90a769e4bb7578b83955389af0892dd361 (2023-11-15T00:00:03Z)
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16:05 muurkha erle: you might enjoy https://blog.za3k.com/hack-a-day-day-14-bytebeat-synth/
16:10 erle muurkha nice to experiment with. though for tempo, i suggest to actually show the sample rate (this is what it means i guess?)
16:10 erle oh
16:10 erle it is just an input
16:10 erle then i would very much like a slider for the sample rate (if that is possible)
16:11 erle or a drop down
16:11 erle sorry, i am making another sticker sheet, thus not paying too much attention rn
16:16 muurkha erle: za3k says he will blindly accept pull requests
16:16 muurkha I was thinking about the sample rate thing too
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16:27 erle muurkha here is my new sticker sheet, for which i have installed the quake and ubuntu fonts hehe https://mister-muffin.de/p/iW1Y.pdf
16:28 erle i have retired the P • O • L • Y • C • U • L • E motive because no one understands it. ea-nasir is now my best friend.
16:28 erle context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-n%C4%81%E1%B9%A3ir
16:29 erle > It is a complaint to a merchant named Ea-nāṣir from a customer named Nanni. Written in Akkadian cuneiform, it is considered to be the oldest known written complaint.
16:29 muurkha haha, this is great
16:29 erle i bet the copper buyer was filled with a sense of pride and accomplishment :D
16:30 erle and yes i believe i know enough lesbians who play doom to get rid of the weirder ones hehe
16:30 muurkha these are hilarious
16:31 erle at least half of them are random stuff from my downloads folder or really obvious (like i can't be the first one editing the gameboy logo or the ubuntu one)
16:31 erle nah, more
16:31 muurkha the doge nose on the pufferfish and the Rustacean are especially subtle
16:31 erle it's bebe the frog on the pufferfish
16:31 muurkha I don't understand the Sus
16:32 muurkha oh, so it is
16:32 erle “sus” is slang for “suspicious” and it is coming from the game “among us”
16:32 erle the logo looks like SUN microsystem
16:32 erle s
16:32 muurkha yes, that I did understand
16:32 erle and the small figurines look like the player character in “among us”
16:32 muurkha pepe might be interpreted as a white supremacist/far-right thing
16:33 erle which is frequently shortened to “amogus”
16:33 muurkha which isn't your intent, I think
16:33 erle nah, i don't want to imply that OpenBSD users are far-right.
16:33 erle but the smug face!
16:33 erle it fits hehe
16:33 muurkha yes, haha
16:33 ROllerozxa are they supposed to be stickers?
16:34 erle they will be stickers yes
16:34 muurkha yeah, you print them out on sticker stock
16:34 erle this is DIN A4 paper format
16:34 erle i bring it to copyshop, then print
16:34 erle i think i should maybe make two separate sheets though
16:34 erle because the printer can not print white
16:34 erle for some reason
16:34 erle stupid CMYK!
16:35 erle so the TWINKPAD definitely will only work on bright backgrounds unless i print on white sticker foil
16:35 erle i'll see
16:35 erle i think i'll make a shirt with the quake and doom ones each hehe
16:35 erle though not sure about the doom one
16:35 erle it's not subtle enough
16:35 erle also i need to edit that POTATO logo later
16:36 erle pacific-ocean trans-atlantic treaty organization when?
16:36 ROllerozxa heh, twinkpad
16:36 ROllerozxa funny
16:36 erle someone just suggested lenowo haha
16:37 muurkha lenowo is awesome
16:38 erle ROllerozxa muurkha if you have any suggestions, tell. only constraint: it needs to be something that you, personally, would stick on your device.
16:38 muurkha the doom one is kind of a lot more in your face
16:38 muurkha it could lead to confrontations
16:39 erle well, i believe if i have a shirt with that motive it would anwer a lot of questions that are posed by the shirt all by itself
16:39 erle similarly to the OnlyTrans one
16:39 erle answer
16:39 muurkha well, I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask.  I've never so much as had a dick in my mouth
16:39 erle well, it's about being playfully lewd
16:40 muurkha yeah, as a het man, I don't have social permission to be playfully lewd
16:40 erle not sure, i think that depends on with whom and when. surely a lot of hetero couples make stupid dirty jokes all the time to each other in private?!
16:40 muurkha they call it "sexual harassment" and "inappropriate behavior" and "hostile workplace environment" when people like me are playfully lewd, so I don't do it except behind closed doors
16:41 muurkha yes, for sure
16:41 muurkha and I have friends I don't fuck with whom I can also do that kind of thing
16:41 muurkha but stickers cross contexts
16:42 erle i think it's not gender- or sexuality-limited if it is uncomfortable btw
16:42 erle but i think stickers are way easier to ignore than talking to someone
16:42 erle no one is forcing you to stare at them
16:44 muurkha yes. but by the same token you don't know who saw them and responded anaphylactically, and you can't respond to their response
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16:50 GreenXenith Hate to interrupt this riveting conversation, but
16:51 GreenXenith The Minetest GAME JAM is back for 2023! All information is on the jam website https://jam.minetest.net/ - Ask questions on any of the Minetest discussion platforms or on this years forum thread https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=430502
16:51 muurkha yaay
16:51 muurkha jaam
16:51 erle yeah but what's the theme?
16:52 erle this is a classic troll tactic!
16:52 erle “i know something but i am not going to tell you”
16:52 erle GreenXenith that pic is pretty nice in style
16:52 GreenXenith Guess you'll have to wait til it starts :)
16:53 GreenXenith And thanks :D
16:53 muurkha rather than 'trolling' we prefer to call it 'driving engagement' :)
16:53 GreenXenith Gotta run for now o/
16:53 erle judging from the picture, i guess the theme is “what if challenger had nodecore items in board and a train crashed into a mese node at the same time, grinding its gears”
16:54 muurkha this sounds like a good starting point for a game
16:55 erle if i take part, i will either make a text-based or a photography-based game
16:55 erle (given i made a unicode renderer and a photo mod recently)
16:59 erle btw, if you want to make your own stickers: http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/quake2-black.svg
17:00 erle http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/uwuntu.svg
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17:03 definitelya HAH, gayyyyyyy
17:12 erle http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/twinkpad.svg
17:13 erle http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/spurdoglenda.svg
17:13 erle :3
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17:37 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: the picture is mostly made up of references to previous game jam games
17:37 MTDiscord <luatic> oh and non-game jam games
17:37 MTDiscord <luatic> just games
17:39 MTDiscord <luatic> nodecore (eggcorn), the balloon game, subway miner (train), glitch (cube with eyes), little lady (ladybug), coconut collector, etc.
17:44 erle luatic and the space shuttle is for the expression “a challenger appears” or what?
17:44 erle i added Lenòwó to the sticker sheet https://mister-muffin.de/p/1VYU.pdf
17:52 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: there were a few space-themed games; I am not sure which one the space shuttle would allude to
17:53 erle luatic btw do you have a good idea to make xcam performant that is not “let it photograph 64×64 scenes” ?
17:53 erle because that works fine
17:53 erle i just think the resolution is too low to catch a reasonable amount of detail
17:53 erle a coworker suggested adam7 style updates to the photo
17:53 erle so it becomes progressively sharper
17:54 erle which is a funny proposition
17:56 MTDiscord <luatic> I suppose one option would be to switch from raycasting to classic rasterization, but that would be too much work to be feasible.
17:58 MTDiscord <luatic> It might be possible to optimize bulk raycasting by reimplementing raycasts in Lua, building a spatial index on the scene you're photographing, and then leveraging that when raycasting, but I think Minetest already leverages mapblock / node indexes when raycasting; I'm not sure whether the performance of Minetest raycasts could be beaten significantly.
17:58 erle what would be classic rasterization?
17:58 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: projecting world space into screen space + depth buffer
17:59 MTDiscord <luatic> but that would require you to do mapblock meshgen on the lua side of things
17:59 erle okay do you have less architecture-astronauty things to suggest?
17:59 erle like a ready-made timeslicing solution for workloads like these?
18:00 MTDiscord <luatic> well timeslicing shouldn't be hard to do
18:00 MTDiscord <luatic> if you're lazy just make it a coroutine and yield when you've used up your time slice
18:00 MTDiscord <luatic> and store that coroutine in a table, resume it each server step
18:00 MTDiscord <luatic> but the problem is that you get the joys of long exposure
18:01 erle wdym
18:01 erle i have no idea how to make a coroutine in lua
18:01 erle i have never done this
18:01 MTDiscord <luatic> if it takes 10 serversteps to do the raycasting and I dig some block 5 serversteps in, you get an inconsistent picture
18:01 erle seriously, all i did was read the source code of some business card raytracer and then made this mod
18:01 erle i am aware of that
18:02 erle but this is the nature of long exposure
18:02 MTDiscord <luatic> well, this is simple enough that you don't need a coroutine
18:02 erle do you have some mod that does it?
18:02 MTDiscord <luatic> effectively you're doing n x m raycasts, right?
18:02 erle i do width × height × samples raycasts
18:02 erle so right now 128 × 128 × 4
18:02 erle samples because supersampling
18:02 erle for both depth of field effect and smoother corners
18:02 MTDiscord <luatic> ok
18:03 erle with 64 × 64 × 1 this thing is performant
18:03 erle but looks not as good as i want it to be
18:03 erle my short term solution is just some slider lol
18:03 erle i mean a setting
18:03 erle so i set the defaults to ”you get a photo in under a second”
18:03 erle like no one ever complains when a server hangs for 0.2 seconds, it does this all the time during emerge
18:04 MTDiscord <luatic> so effectively you could just store a triple (i, j, k) that gives you the current progress of your raycasting operation in the form of 3 loop indices
18:05 erle okay where do i store the current state though
18:05 erle and also the raycasting operation is defined by a few more things
18:05 erle like from where to where FOR EXAMPLE
18:05 MTDiscord <luatic> yeah, you need to store those to
18:05 erle have some lua mod that does this?
18:05 erle or a re-entrant function i can steal from?
18:05 MTDiscord <luatic> a coroutine would make it way more convenient I believe
18:06 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: off the top of my head, no
18:07 MTDiscord <luatic> I primarily use coroutines for recursive iterators and such
18:07 erle luatic how to coroutine
18:07 erle gib code pls
18:07 erle :333
18:07 erle i can send you stickers (seriously)
18:08 MTDiscord <luatic> mhm let me make a quick proof of concept
18:09 erle the meshgen in lua thing betrays again that you don't like to cheat as much as i do with your rendering hehe
18:10 erle :3
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18:29 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: https://gist.github.com/appgurueu/f566cafa9482b0fc74eb6050417e3ed5
18:30 MTDiscord <luatic> this approximates pi pretty inefficiently, spreading the work out over multiple server steps
18:32 erle luatic wait so i can just randomly coroutine.yield() in the middle of some code?
18:32 erle or are there any caveats
18:33 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: yes, you can randomly yield in the middle of your lua code
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18:33 MTDiscord <luatic> with lua-c boundaries it's trickier (usually not possible) though
18:33 MTDiscord <luatic> but we don't have that issue here
18:34 erle luatic so when *should* i yield though?
18:35 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: in this, you'll probably have like 3 nested loops, right?
18:36 MTDiscord <luatic> i imagine for x = 1, w do for y = 1, h do for sample = 1, samples do end end <yield> end
18:37 MTDiscord <luatic> you could put it in the innermost loop / after every operation, but that would not be wise: the overhead from yielding would be too significant
18:37 MTDiscord <luatic> so instead you should put it in some outer loop so the overhead diminishes
18:37 MTDiscord <luatic> you'll have to test this
18:42 erle luatic how about you read the code instead of relying on your imagination?
18:42 erle maybe you find some lower hanging fruit even
18:43 erle luatic https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/xcam/src/branch/main/init.lua
18:46 erle luatic i could yield after every scanline or so even
18:46 erle luatic would that be okay?
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19:00 muurkha ooh, randomly yielding sounds fantastic for Minetest mods
19:02 muurkha > Lenòwó
19:02 muurkha I think Lenówò would be cuter
19:03 erle muurkha now i guess i have to make both. but first i print this page.
19:04 erle i like that writing allows human culture to span thousands of years
19:04 muurkha well, it did
19:04 erle not only do i know that ea-nāṣir had copper of questionable quality, i can make fun of it! :D
19:06 erle i wonder if i can make a funnier uwubuntu logo
19:06 erle luatic thanks for the coroutine thing
19:06 erle luatic is there some mod that will automatically schedule stuff for me?
19:06 erle luatic i am, after all, super fucking lazy
19:34 luk3yx 0.
19:34 luk3yx Oops
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20:09 sometalgoo Is there a set of privs I can give users, so they can't destroy blocks, but still allows them to do other things like opening chests and doors, using items, reading signs, and attacking mobs?
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20:42 erle sometalgoo look into protection mods
20:42 erle sometalgoo AFAIK generally these can prevent players from placing or digging, but e.g. using machinery is still allowed
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23:46 sometalgoo I am using the minimap, but it seems to have a lot of different view options and it's always turned off by default when a first launch Minetest.  So every time I join the game, I end up pressing "V" three times to get the minimap I want.  Is there a way to make the minimap automatically turn on and be at the view I want, every time I start the game?

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