| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also, about mapgen - i use singlenode, but if remove some biomes params - minetest recreates it, but why? |
| 00:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also, about mapgen - i use singlenode, but if remove mp params (eg. mp_flag variable) - minetest recreates it, but why? |
| 00:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> thanks! |
| 00:13 |
|
Verticen joined #minetest |
| 00:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> was (-52, 8, 68), is really work |
| 00:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> math magic |
| 00:28 |
hare_hare_yukai |
guys can i do player:punch(mycustomvar) and handle it in register_on_punchplayer() ? |
| 00:38 |
|
mazes_83 joined #minetest |
| 00:45 |
hare_hare_yukai |
guys quick lua question |
| 00:45 |
hare_hare_yukai |
say i have a table |
| 00:45 |
hare_hare_yukai |
thistable = {"string"} |
| 00:45 |
hare_hare_yukai |
how do i check if thistable contains "string" in an if statement |
| 00:46 |
hare_hare_yukai |
like if thistable["string"] then blah end |
| 00:48 |
hare_hare_yukai |
besides iterating over the table using a for loop |
| 00:50 |
|
ShadowBot joined #minetest |
| 00:54 |
|
Verticen joined #minetest |
| 01:00 |
|
Pokey joined #minetest |
| 01:04 |
|
ShadowBot joined #minetest |
| 01:21 |
|
smk joined #minetest |
| 01:22 |
luk3yx |
You can do if table.indexof(thistable, "string") > 0 then. table.indexof() is added by Minetest and is implemented with a for loop internally |
| 01:26 |
hare_hare_yukai |
thanks |
| 01:48 |
|
comrad joined #minetest |
| 02:08 |
|
Lesha_Vel joined #minetest |
| 02:53 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 03:28 |
|
beanzilla joined #minetest |
| 03:41 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest |
| 03:47 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
| 03:53 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 03:56 |
|
Ant2006 joined #minetest |
| 03:57 |
Ant2006 |
test |
| 03:59 |
|
Ant2006 left #minetest |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
| 04:08 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 04:18 |
|
Noisytoot joined #minetest |
| 04:55 |
|
jonadab joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
smk joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Verticen joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
isAAAc joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
sy_ joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Edgy2 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
peterz joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
cryne joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Izaya joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
sugarbeet joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Cork joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
TheCoffeMaker joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
hook54321 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
sid0 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
erle joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
z812 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
staceee joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
fgaz_ joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
InFerNo_ joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
doseijin joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
ShadowNinja joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
muurkha joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Mc joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
MisterE123 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
HumanGeek joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Fulgen joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Bombo joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
clavii joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
A_Dragon joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Oksanaa joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
nore joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
dzho joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
simon816 joined #minetest |
| 05:02 |
|
Norkle joined #minetest |
| 05:03 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 05:03 |
|
calcul0n joined #minetest |
| 05:06 |
|
hook54321 joined #minetest |
| 05:08 |
|
HumanGeek joined #minetest |
| 05:08 |
|
gxt joined #minetest |
| 05:14 |
|
qqq joined #minetest |
| 05:20 |
|
pounce joined #minetest |
| 05:22 |
|
TM3 joined #minetest |
| 06:01 |
|
olliy1or joined #minetest |
| 06:08 |
|
TomTom_ joined #minetest |
| 06:24 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 06:26 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 06:51 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 07:18 |
|
Lesha_Vel joined #minetest |
| 08:29 |
|
calcul0n_ joined #minetest |
| 08:36 |
|
lissobone joined #minetest |
| 08:36 |
lissobone |
Hello, men. |
| 08:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> test passed, hello |
| 08:42 |
|
Alnotz joined #minetest |
| 08:45 |
|
calcul0n_ joined #minetest |
| 08:49 |
|
amfl2 joined #minetest |
| 09:09 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 09:09 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 09:19 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 09:19 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 09:38 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 09:57 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 10:34 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 11:02 |
lissobone |
Test passed, replying: hello. Do you copy? |
| 11:16 |
|
definitelya joined #minetest |
| 11:32 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 12:38 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> memcpy? |
| 12:41 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 13:16 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 13:26 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also minetest.delete_area(pos1, pos2), works as directly delete from database? |
| 13:29 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> So... i guess no |
| 13:35 |
|
TheCoffeMaker joined #minetest |
| 13:45 |
MinetestBot |
[git] aegroto -> minetest/minetest_game: Add sapling growth APIs (#3053) 59da46c https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/59da46c80b699970b232eb3f7d66dea87f2b2648 (2023-09-12T13:43:41Z) |
| 14:01 |
|
greeter joined #minetest |
| 14:05 |
|
qqq joined #minetest |
| 14:05 |
|
gera joined #minetest |
| 15:27 |
|
Thelie joined #minetest |
| 15:30 |
|
Desour joined #minetest |
| 15:34 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 15:46 |
|
Verticen joined #minetest |
| 15:54 |
|
jaca122 joined #minetest |
| 16:02 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 16:05 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 16:06 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 16:09 |
|
qqq joined #minetest |
| 16:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> well. I just create pos generator, and... just saved blocks when not in range save area |
| 16:11 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 16:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> 50MB -> 3MB |
| 16:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> awesome |
| 16:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> 50MB+ -> 3MB |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> This works in my case, just share with that chat if useful (and only -1 mapblock by Y): |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> ``` |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> def gen(): |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> for x in range(-33,33+1): |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> for y in range(-33, 33+1): |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> yield (x, -1, y) |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> |
| 16:15 |
|
[MTMatrix] was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. Use a pastebin like paste.ubuntu.com. |
| 16:15 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> savearea = [i for i in gen()] |
| 16:15 |
|
[MTMatrix] was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. Use a pastebin like paste.ubuntu.com. |
| 16:15 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> print(f"delete from blocks WHERE pos not in {rawpos};") |
| 16:15 |
|
[MTMatrix] was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. Use a pastebin like paste.ubuntu.com. |
| 16:15 |
ROllerozxa |
sigh |
| 16:15 |
rubenwardy |
MisterE123: the bridge shouldn't past code blocks like that |
| 16:15 |
Desour |
oh no, ShadowBot kicks the bridge |
| 16:16 |
rubenwardy |
it should snip them or auto upload them to a pastebin (preferably the latter) |
| 16:16 |
ROllerozxa |
don't paste your novels straight into a chat bridged to IRC, kids |
| 16:17 |
muurkha |
hahaha |
| 16:18 |
muurkha |
I wish Lua had list comprehensions |
| 16:19 |
mrkubax10 |
"[MTMatrix] was kicked from #minetest by ShadowBot" lol |
| 16:19 |
rubenwardy |
now do discord |
| 16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> muurkha: DIY :) |
| 16:22 |
muurkha |
luatic: do you mean by writing a compiler targeting Lua? |
| 16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I typically write myself a function to collect an iterator into a list. |
| 16:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I don't really need or want syntactic sugar for that. Why does Python even have list comprehensions given that it has list which can already be used to the same effect? |
| 16:23 |
muurkha |
well, [i for i in gen()] is not the most inspiring use of a listcomp |
| 16:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yes. Just list(gen()) would be more idiomatic. |
| 16:24 |
Desour |
I love list comprehensions, they are super easy to write |
| 16:24 |
muurkha |
http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/sendmoremoney.py is some kind of argument in the "Why does Python even have {list,generator} comprehensions?" discussion, but I'm not sure if it's for or against |
| 16:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'd still prefer list + map over a list comp though |
| 16:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> esp. as it'd prevent people from abusing list comprehensions when iterators would've done the job just as well |
| 16:24 |
|
olliy joined #minetest |
| 16:25 |
muurkha |
I think a clearer example in favor might be http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/netbook-misc-devel/bitwords.py\ |
| 16:25 |
muurkha |
I mean http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/netbook-misc-devel/bitwords.py |
| 16:26 |
muurkha |
maybe the one inside render() in http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/unimaze.py is also a good example |
| 16:27 |
muurkha |
unimaze.go shows how I did the same thing in Golang, which doesn't have listcomps |
| 16:28 |
muurkha |
where the corresponding code is in Maze.Show |
| 16:30 |
muurkha |
rmq.py has the very nice all(xs[n] >= xs[k] for n in range(i, j)) |
| 16:30 |
muurkha |
which I think is really dramatically more readable than the Lua or Golang or even Common Lisp versions |
| 16:31 |
muurkha |
I mean http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/rmq.py |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> meh, all(map(lambda n: xs[n] >= xs[k], range(i, j)) would be completely fine if lambda weren't quite as unwieldy |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> in lua it's unfortunately even more unwieldy due to there being no "arrow functions" |
| 17:04 |
|
gxt joined #minetest |
| 17:10 |
|
TheSilentLink joined #minetest |
| 17:14 |
muurkha |
luatic: yeah, it's pretty cool how much mileage Smalltalk and Ruby get out of having terser syntax for lambdas |
| 17:17 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 17:17 |
muurkha |
I think in Ruby that would just be (i...j).all? { |n| xs[n] >= xs[k] } |
| 17:17 |
muurkha |
which is shorthand for (i...j).collect { |n| xs[n] >= xs[k] }.all? |
| 17:23 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 17:24 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 17:35 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 17:45 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 17:57 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 17:59 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 18:08 |
|
[MTMatrix] joined #minetest |
| 18:19 |
|
Guest589 joined #minetest |
| 18:21 |
|
Oblomov joined #minetest |
| 18:21 |
|
Guest589 joined #minetest |
| 18:48 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 19:10 |
|
Desour joined #minetest |
| 19:41 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 20:32 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 20:32 |
|
yella joined #minetest |
| 20:38 |
|
_yella_ joined #minetest |
| 20:47 |
|
_yella_ joined #minetest |
| 21:02 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 21:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> how I can ask the engine no generate empty space blocks? Except mg limit |
| 21:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Warr1024> You can't. |
| 21:27 |
erle |
why do you even want it |
| 21:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Warr1024> There's a good reason too; it's not necessarily trivial to just regenerate those "empty" mapblocks. |
| 21:29 |
erle |
yes, cavegen will grief |
| 21:29 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Warr1024> Every time a mapblock is generated, it's run through every mod's on_generated callbacks, which can have arbitrarily high cost. IIRC there were proposals to not save mapblocks until they'd been changed from the generated state, and this (along with the complexity of decorations) was probably a big contributing factor to why that didn't work out. |
| 21:29 |
erle |
Warr1024 it is even worse, these callbacks can also run when a mapblock was not generated. |
| 21:29 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> localhost: have you measured the cost of empty blocks? |
| 21:29 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> haha, yeah, cavegen is another issue too. You actually want a margin of untouched mapchunks around any mapchunk that contains actual builds, player changes, ABM changes, etc just to avoid those issues... |
| 21:30 |
erle |
for example, i have a scenario in some world downloads where the world gets corrupted, possibly because the on_generated stuff runs partially again in world dls for some reason. |
| 21:31 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> hmmm. What if I write mod for deleting the blocks on_generated callback? :D |
| 21:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> localhost: then you will most probably invoke nasal demons |
| 21:31 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> map generation runs on chunks, not blocks. So if you're trying to be clever and "optimize" your map by deleting unused mapblocks, you actually need to preserve the whole chunk that contains the block. |
| 21:31 |
erle |
oh yes that was it |
| 21:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the null hypothesis here is that air-only blocks ought to be disk space efficient due to compression; please try to refute that before you attempt any optimizations |
| 21:31 |
erle |
if something is only partially saved, you might run some on_generated stuff for the whole thing :( |
| 21:32 |
erle |
whkat luatic says |
| 21:32 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Even if air-only mapblocks take non-trivial space, trying to optimize them out is still usually not worth the pain it causes. |
| 21:32 |
erle |
and air can also contain things, don't forget that |
| 21:32 |
erle |
for example, ghost inventories |
| 21:33 |
erle |
so you can literally pluck items out of thin air |
| 21:33 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> don't forget entities, lol |
| 21:33 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I assume what they're asking for is some way to detect a "purely blank" mapblock and remove those. Even still, it doesn't salvage the problem. |
| 21:33 |
|
v-rob joined #minetest |
| 21:34 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Also, for the case of general surface exploration, optimizing out empty mapblocks will do little to affect the disk size of a world in normal gameplay conditions because half of the mapblocks (and WAY more than half of the disk space) is actually generated terrain. |
| 21:34 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> to remove "purely blank" mapblocks then you can try to delete mapblocks in the database that have a blob size under a certain threshold (just try to figure out what that threshold may be) |
| 21:34 |
erle |
speaking like someone who never explored the end sky lol |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> oh yeah, note that air may store valuable param1 light info |
| 21:35 |
erle |
ROllerozxa you are chaotic evil, anyone with thet little knowledge about the map db is going to delete things they like as well by accident! |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Your options are probably either (1) set mapgen_limit, (2) install a mod that limits player movement so they can't explore too far (and maybe simplify mapgen outside that range by deleting terrain), (3) periodically take down your world to do complex cull scripts, or (4) live with it and buy bigger disks. |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Amanda: shouldn't all purely blank mapblocks have the exact same blob, or is there something I'm missing? |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> erle: I was assuming they would at least make a backup before attempting such a task :P |
| 21:36 |
erle |
ROllerozxa I BELIEVE YOU. YOU LOOK TRUSTWORTHY! :D |
| 21:36 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> they would either make the backup, or they would learn an important lesson. |
| 21:36 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> don't trust anyone who speaks through the discord bridge. we are all untrustworthy |
| 21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> old: the same blob hash? maybe |
| 21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (er, i mean luatic) |
| 21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've done the culling script thing before, and it's complicated. I actually have a mod that keeps extensive statistitics on the usage of every mapblock (how many times a player has dug, placed, etc within that block) and it helped guide me where the actual builds were, but the logic to expand mapblocks to chunks, and then include the extra border chunks, was not trivial. |
| 21:37 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> okay, I just make workaround - teleport on borders. Is simple and better solution, right? |
| 21:38 |
Warr1024 |
People who talk directly in IRC aren't necessarily that much safer either |
| 21:38 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Warr1024> nor matrix |
| 21:38 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> okay, I just do make workaround - teleport on borders. Is simple and better solution, right? |
| 21:38 |
erle |
localhost do not trust other players, they lie, cheat and steal |
| 21:38 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> teleport on borders is not bulletproof but it's a decent mitigation, probably. |
| 21:39 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> no no. I mean if their position x,y,z then teleport on spawn |
| 21:39 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> for example |
| 21:39 |
erle |
that's actually what the engine does if you go out of bounds enough i think |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Players who really want to cause you pain can teleport themselves to any arbitrary location they want. Hopefully though you won't have anybody trying to cause you intentional pain, and just preventing players from traveling too far will prevent them from accidentally causing you pain. |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> localhost: I think the ideal solution to map borders is to spawn actual solid border nodes - which may have airlike visuals - to prevent players leaving the borders using on_generated. |
| 21:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> when someone leaves that "box" (penetrates the border nodes), you know it's a cheater |
| 21:40 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> spawning dummy airlike solid nodes is what I do in my own servers (I can't use mapgen_limit because it doesn't support multiple dimensions with separate limites) |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've actually got a todo to publish that as a proper mod one of these days, actually 🤔 |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> for voxelmanip classic I just clamp the player's position if they end up outside the invisible bedrock borders through one cheat or the other |
| 21:44 |
erle |
ROllerozxa, why do you hate FUN |
| 21:44 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> For NCC, I have one mod that generated the border solids, and the game itself has rules that if you're stuck in solids, you get randomly teleported, with a general bias toward 0,0,0 |
| 21:45 |
erle |
nice, a teleport trick |
| 21:45 |
erle |
does this also work if i just dump sand on myself |
| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Yep |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> generally speaking one of the rules of NodeCore is that players are "less tangible" than nodes, so the presence of a player cannot stop a machine from moving |
| 21:46 |
erle |
i like how well-thought-out nodecore is in these terms |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> As a consequence it's pretty easy to have a machine just move something solid into place where you were standing, so being able to push a player out of solids is an important mechanic. |
| 21:47 |
erle |
it reminds me of the philosophy of battle for wesnoth ”all movement and attacks have to work so that it *could* be a boardgame” which prevents useless mental accounting work |
| 21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> "well thought out" as in "it's nice to see a game that's built on consistently applying certain underlying principles" or as in "it's nice to see somebody who actually playtests and takes feedback seriously"? 😄 |
| 21:48 |
erle |
i meant the first but i appreciate both |
| 21:48 |
erle |
i should probably point to nodecore next time ancient_mariner says that “bugs happen, we can't afford to put more work into it with our manpower” |
| 21:49 |
erle |
i really appreciate gamedevs who consistently deliver quality |
| 21:49 |
erle |
and have a vision |
| 21:49 |
erle |
it's like the german concept of autorenfilm, a movie following the vision of a single author |
| 21:50 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Well, nodecore does have its share of bugs. Some of them are very tricky to fix, but they're subtle enough in gameplay that I've gotten away with not fixing them entirely... |
| 21:50 |
erle |
that's just managing tech debt |
| 21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Being able to make interest-only payments on tech debt is a nice way not to get overwhelmed all at once, but it's one of the most depressing ways of handling debt 😅 |
| 21:53 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I think probably at least the level of quality I have in NodeCore was more or less inevitable when (1) I want to solve each problem only once and not have to keep solving it over again, and (2) I tend to see patterns in the problems, and consider the meta-problems as real problems too. |
| 21:53 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> Ah yes. Also I find strange thing, if player have very big RTT - it can dig protected areas and walk in it 👀 |
| 21:54 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> ah, just like in classicube |
| 21:54 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> erle: but out of bounds is meant to be out of bounds... >:P |
| 21:54 |
erle |
Warr1024 seeing meta-patterns is a talent that some devs just don't have. |
| 21:55 |
erle |
Warr1024 for example, there are a bunch of bug classes in mineclone2 (and forks) that are basically the same. |
| 21:55 |
erle |
and they occur again and again |
| 21:55 |
erle |
maybe also due to project churn |
| 21:56 |
erle |
as past performance predicts future performance, maintainer burnout is inevitable with that project, so institutional knowledge gets lost |
| 21:56 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> As a talent that some people have more of than others, I could see that, but I can't really imagine somebody ever making it as any kind of developer having a serious deficiency in that talent. It feels like it must be actually a core part of being a developer... |
| 21:56 |
erle |
> I can't really imagine somebody ever making it as any kind of developer having a serious deficiency in that talent. |
| 21:56 |
erle |
exhibit A: imagemagick |
| 21:56 |
erle |
lol |
| 21:56 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> honestly what upset me more than people building outside of the map boundary were people flying around and exploring obscene amounts of empty space, which generated a lot of junk in the database. from that I know that empty air mapblocks can, in fact, bloat up a map database if someone is determined enough |
| 21:57 |
erle |
in mineclone2 i used to build: a) on the nether roof b) below the bedrock of the overworld c) in the void |
| 21:57 |
erle |
the void thing was probably the most illegal |
| 21:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It seems like you couldn't prevent somebody from generating mapblocks outside of a designated area, but you could keep track of the mapblocks that shouldn't exist (persist them in mod_storage), and then just poll them to see if they're still loaded, and once you get ignores, you know they're not loaded anymore (only exist on disk) and then you can delete_blocks them or whatever, maybe in a slow background process, to keep things clean |
| 21:58 |
MTDiscord |
automatically. |
| 21:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It's iffy whether the perf costs work out in your favor, but for disk space management, it's worth some experiements, maybe. |
| 21:59 |
erle |
i think mod_storage + mapblocks was always racy somehow |
| 21:59 |
erle |
definitely problematic in terms of crashes if you are not smart about it |
| 21:59 |
erle |
i need to go to bed |
| 21:59 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> erle: glitching on top of the nether roof feels like it's so common though it might as well be an intended game mechanic at this point 😆 |
| 21:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> Hm, I thins was a dumb workaround just make cleanup in map.sqlite via crontab, just save some pos, others will be deleted, but i'm not try it when game is running |
| 21:59 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Right, MT has no transactional safety there so you'll have to be content with it as a mitigation, not an absolute guarantee. |
| 22:00 |
erle |
rollerozxa yes, but cora and me and li0n also built a nether canal with real water :P |
| 22:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> localhost: you can ... actually kinda get away with surprisingly much while the game is running, even, if you use postgresql as a backend 😉 |
| 22:00 |
erle |
flooding the nether is not very common |
| 22:00 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> water in the nether... o.o |
| 22:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> nether gonna give you up |
| 22:01 |
erle |
ROllerozxa also i once used an off-by-one-glitch in kay27 nether portals and built a HUGE overworld grid of portals that removed one layer of bedrock in a square. |
| 22:01 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> that's hilarious |
| 22:02 |
erle |
well they were spawning sometimes 1 node into the bedrock |
| 22:02 |
erle |
deleting it |
| 22:02 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> ugh, off by one errors are 2 of my least favorite things to deal with. |
| 22:02 |
erle |
so i just exploited that |
| 22:02 |
erle |
to chip away at the bedrock! |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> always found the strange ways people find out how to break bedrock in minecraft to be very interesting. so I'm glad there's just as many glitches (or intentional game mechanics? :)) that allow you to break bedrock in mineclone |
| 22:05 |
erle |
ROllerozxa https://mister-muffin.de/p/y1CO.jpg |
| 22:05 |
erle |
ROllerozxa it's just that devs are not particularly good at testing |
| 22:05 |
erle |
and sometimes they don't even want to fix stuff |
| 22:06 |
erle |
i mean, for a time i used mushrooms to break bedrock |
| 22:06 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Devs not being good at testing is no surprise, but you'd think people would at least take bug reports seriously, I guess... |
| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> At least most of the bugs I've ignored just involve the game doing dumb stuff sometimes, like a thing you think should work not working ... but for exploitation of boundaries like that, I'd at least put in some mitigation fast, even if I couldn't do a really proper fix. |
| 22:08 |
erle |
the boundary thing is not a problem |
| 22:08 |
erle |
destroying arbitrary nodes is |
| 22:08 |
erle |
because you can use it for evil |
| 22:08 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> erle: gosh those vehicles there are so cute |
| 22:08 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It should be hard to "accidentally" cheat. If it's something you can stumble on by accident without putting a real effort into, it shouldn't be something that either (1) can be exploited by players for gain, or (2) sucker-punches players and makes them lose something important unfairly. |
| 22:08 |
erle |
for example. a mineclone 2 world used to have (probably still has) 3 portals to the end dimension i think |
| 22:08 |
erle |
and 1 portal out of that dimension |
| 22:08 |
erle |
if you grief, you can disable a whole dimension |
| 22:09 |
erle |
or remove the exit hatch from it |
| 22:09 |
erle |
i do actually stumble into most glitches on accident |
| 22:09 |
erle |
a few friends i have do that as well |
| 22:09 |
erle |
my theory is that everyone experiences about 100 or so software bugs per week |
| 22:09 |
erle |
but most people just subconsciously dismiss them |
| 22:09 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Destroying things is actually supposed to be hard to do in NodeCore. The "pulverize" command is considered a cheat and you're warned you're cheating just from having the priv for it. |
| 22:10 |
erle |
and those who get very irritated are good at noticing them and glitching |
| 22:10 |
erle |
i like how nodecore deals with damage |
| 22:10 |
erle |
what if |
| 22:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also. about area protected mitigation, just kick player when dig, is 100% works :D |
| 22:10 |
erle |
minetest, but every time you take fall damage your item bar randomly reshuffles |
| 22:10 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Heh, I would probably agree with that 100 bugs a week figure, though for the most part, 95 of them are the same ones you saw last week, and only 5 or so are actually novel... |
| 22:11 |
|
Boingo joined #minetest |
| 22:11 |
erle |
n8 n8 |
| 22:11 |
erle |
and please make that ticket for decompression Warr1024 |
| 22:11 |
erle |
you are less of a bitch than i am |
| 22:11 |
erle |
so ig it has higher chances of success! |
| 22:11 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've done the "items randomly shuffle" thing before actually. In an earlier modpack for MTG, I had items you throw on the ground turn into "pile of stuff" nodes if they sat there long enough, to preserve items and fix the "item decay" thing. |
| 22:12 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The piles had the same capacity as a chest, so you'd think "wait, what incentive does a player have to invest in chests then? Isn't this just a 'cheat' around chests?" Well, I made it impossible or organize the piles. |
| 22:12 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Any time you added or removed an item or tried to move something around, the whole mess would reshuffle. |
| 22:12 |
erle |
lol |
| 22:12 |
erle |
gib |
| 22:13 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> https://gitlab.com/sztest/sztest/-/tree/master/sz_stuffpile and https://gitlab.com/sztest/sztest/-/tree/master/sz_tweak_item_pile, I think. Haven't been maintained since like 0.4.15 days or so though, so YMMV. |
| 22:17 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Haha, shit, it's also using my old metatable libraries 😅 |
| 22:34 |
|
panwolfram joined #minetest |
| 23:01 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
| 23:25 |
|
lemonzest joined #minetest |
