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| 10:57 |
MTDiscord |
Command sent from Discord by nein: |
| 10:57 |
MTDiscord |
!tell hare_hare_yukai if it's better for readability and you don't want to support later monkey-patching of the function, do it. Never do it for optimization purposes unless you have profiled it and found it to be a problem - in the vast majority of cases it isn't one. |
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MinetestBot |
MTDiscord: yeah, sure, whatever |
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erle |
it's been a long time, but i finally got around to fixing seed-dupe: https://content.minetest.net/packages/erlehmann/mcl_quick_harvest_replant/ |
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MinetestBot |
hare_hare_yukai: Sep-10 10:57 UTC <MTDiscord> if it's better for readability and you don't want to support later monkey-patching of the function, do it. Never do it for optimization purposes unless you have profiled it and found it to be a problem - in the vast majority of cases it isn't one. |
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Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.7.0 (2023-04-08) | General, player and modding discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest |
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erle |
rubenwardy i think i have a better thumbnail now! :) https://content.minetest.net/thumbnails/2/ad476571eb.png |
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[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I find bug (?), mapgen_limit = 1000, but 926 in world đź‘€ |
| 16:34 |
erle |
localhost, that's not a bug |
| 16:34 |
erle |
localhost the visible map is *always* surrounded by a shell of mapblocks that are *usually* invisible on the client |
| 16:35 |
erle |
localhost main the purpose of this is so that mods that handle unloaded areas handle the map border with no additional effort. it is simply an area that the client never loads. |
| 16:37 |
erle |
localhost if you question this setup, imagine what would happen without it when, say, a tree is spawned right at the edge of a map without a protective shell |
| 16:37 |
erle |
or what *could* happen |
| 16:37 |
erle |
it happens again and again that people, even coredevs, do not understand this setup. but it seems to have been carefully engineered to prevent all kinds of bullshit crashes and other shenanigans at the map border. |
| 16:39 |
erle |
the only jarring visible artifact of it is that non-source water at the map border never runs out. but ”fixing” that would gain you almost nothing and likely result in something much worse when the visible border is ocean. |
| 16:39 |
erle |
if you think there should be no protective shell around the map, i have a bunch of crashes to sell to you :P |
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| 16:59 |
celeron55 |
i don't think using a lower mapgen_limit requires any extra "shell". it's probably just that the mapgen chunk would have crossed the 1000 boundary and the engine decided for that reason to not generate it |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
but erle is correct in why the map is not generated all the way to 32768 if you try to configure it so |
| 17:00 |
erle |
well that's another hardcoded limit based on something else though |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
(in short, that's because it would cause all kinds of bugs that people don't want to make their code aware of |
| 17:00 |
celeron55 |
) |
| 17:01 |
erle |
i think the explanation with the boundary is correct. i was just pointing out that for mental accounting purposes, you need to keep the invisible shell in mind. |
| 17:01 |
erle |
because even if mapgen does not run there, stuff can end up there (e.g. via placing schematics on the boundary) |
| 17:02 |
erle |
also it is pretty trivial to interact with that part even on a non-hacked client and players have fun with it |
| 17:02 |
celeron55 |
there is also that, but neither of these things is the full story. it all applies |
| 17:03 |
erle |
indeed |
| 17:03 |
erle |
i once went to a border to use a boat to get myself out of bounds |
| 17:03 |
erle |
and found a boat, out of bounds, haha |
| 17:03 |
erle |
2 idiots 1 idea |
| 17:04 |
celeron55 |
there probably doesn't exist a single 3d game where something silly wouldn't happen when you play with world boundaries |
| 17:04 |
erle |
also the clamity server used to have a slightly-out-of-bounds rail line i built, that unfortunately was never in any map download (but worked, the rails were just invisible on the client) |
| 17:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I can get formula for `x * 16 mapblock = ? mapgen_limit`? |
| 17:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I can get formula for `x * 16 block = ? mapgen_limit`? |
| 17:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I can get formula for `x * 16 node = ? mapgen_limit`? |
| 17:05 |
erle |
you don't have to write that 3 times |
| 17:05 |
erle |
this is a bit difficult, but basically, like celeron55 says, the first mapblock that goes over the boundary will not be generated |
| 17:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> 0,5 mapblock impossible, right? |
| 17:06 |
erle |
i think you can set the limit to 1006 and will have a clear boundary |
| 17:06 |
erle |
on one side of the map |
| 17:06 |
celeron55 |
the mapgen generates mapgen chunks. they are sized by the "chunksize" setting which defaults to 5 (don't change it unless you want problems). the chunks is sized as chunksize * chunksize * chunksize mapblocks, plus if i recall correctly there's an additional mapblock-wide shell around it that is handled specially |
| 17:07 |
celeron55 |
and the entire thing is offset so that 0,0,0 is somewhere around the middle of the 0,0,0 mapgen chunk |
| 17:07 |
erle |
5 Ă— 16 = 80 obv, so 926 + 80 = 1006 |
| 17:07 |
celeron55 |
or was it |
| 17:07 |
erle |
i doubt that is entirely true |
| 17:07 |
celeron55 |
maybe it's not anymore |
| 17:07 |
erle |
not sure |
| 17:07 |
erle |
i mean it is offset |
| 17:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> Thanks!!! |
| 17:07 |
erle |
there probably should be a separate mapgen limit for each +/- and each axis |
| 17:07 |
erle |
so 6 overall |
| 17:07 |
erle |
to have “clean boundaries” on beautiful coordinates |
| 17:07 |
erle |
but that's an aesthetic problem from my POV |
| 17:08 |
erle |
as if someone cares if the map ends at 1000 or 1006 |
| 17:08 |
celeron55 |
anyway yes, the mapgen will progess in steps of 80 nodes |
| 17:08 |
celeron55 |
(chunksize*16) |
| 17:09 |
celeron55 |
if you set maogen_limit to 1006, you might get it to generate that, or maybe it has to be 1006+16=1022. but that's only to the plus direction, you'll get a different boundary to the negative direction |
| 17:09 |
celeron55 |
this could use some polish but it's not been a priority |
| 17:09 |
erle |
to elaborate on the “don't change it unless you want problems“: lots of stuff works with that 80 limit. for example, the mineshafts generated in mineclone2 at some point would start in the middle of an 80×80×80 cube and grow outwards or so, obv having smaller chunk size would crash it. |
| 17:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> wait, but enginge countes this not from 0,0,0 pos? |
| 17:10 |
erle |
celeron55 given the last THREE times or so i had to annoy people a lot regarding the map boundary, i'd prefer if no one would ever touch it unless they have a clear understanding on how i can detonate TNT out of bounds lol |
| 17:10 |
erle |
celeron55 every time someone who does not know exactly why it works touches it, they seem to want to fuck it up or so |
| 17:10 |
erle |
see the water thing |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
yes the mapgen does not align any chunk edge to the origin. there's an offset |
| 17:11 |
erle |
there's a nuance |
| 17:11 |
erle |
hehe |
| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
because i made it to have an offset |
| 17:12 |
celeron55 |
because... well let's just say it just is how it happens to be |
| 17:12 |
erle |
i think it's okay that way, except for the implicit assumptions devs (both mod and engine devs) have about mapgen limits. but obviously the humans are wrong here, the computer is correct! :P |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
the offset for the central mapgen chunk is -chunksize/2, so for chunksize=5 it's 2 mapblocks negative |
| 17:14 |
celeron55 |
-2*16 + 5*16*12 = 928 |
| 17:14 |
celeron55 |
still not 926. maybe it wasn't measured accurately |
| 17:16 |
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[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> on border (rounded pos) |
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hare_hare_yukai |
nein: how do i profile? |
| 18:15 |
hare_hare_yukai |
its mineclone2 |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> https://content.minetest.net/packages/jwmhjwmh/jitprofiler/, there are detailed instructions there |
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hare_hare_yukai |
danks |
| 19:06 |
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MTDiscord |
<luatic> you're willcome |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:34 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> How make param for tool on_use as hold LMB instead clicking? |
| 19:34 |
hare_hare_yukai |
guys if i wanna be able to show the nametag of a player for specific players only with other players not being able to see the nametag, would this be doable in a mod or require changes in minetest code itself? |
| 19:35 |
erle |
hare_hare_yukai i have an idea but you will prob not like it |
| 19:35 |
hare_hare_yukai |
say it |
| 19:36 |
erle |
hare_hare_yukai 1. render the nametag to a texture using unicode_text (or a lesser library that supports fewer corners of unicode) 2. send players different textures. 3. rinse and repeat. |
| 19:36 |
erle |
step 2 is the fun part |
| 19:37 |
erle |
if i am not mistaken (pls correct me if i am wrong), you can make the same texture name refer to different textures if you poison the clients just right |
| 19:37 |
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| 19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> hare_hare_yukai: attach an entity to the player, and then do whatever you want |
| 19:38 |
erle |
well, what else except the ”one name multiple textures” trick is possible here |
| 19:38 |
erle |
can entities be selectively invisible? |
| 19:38 |
hare_hare_yukai |
if i attach an entity to the player that entity is rendered the same for all players no? |
| 19:38 |
erle |
this is why i suggest to send different dynamic media |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> you can cheat with dynamic media |
| 19:38 |
erle |
send a blank texture to one player and one with the rendered text to another |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: no need for unicode here, player names don't allow unicode |
| 19:38 |
hare_hare_yukai |
yeah how do i do that? |
| 19:38 |
erle |
luatic yeah but i am not aware of other libraries that can render text to a texture |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:39 |
erle |
and obviously i am shilling my own shit here |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the standard texmod approach works |
| 19:39 |
erle |
it won't work with texture modifiers if you want the letters to be invisible for one player but not another though? |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you don't need to send different nametag textures, you just need to send different mask textures |
| 19:39 |
erle |
explain pls |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> append something like ^[mask:<playername>.png to each player texmod, send different <playername>.png's to different players, possibly additionally add something like an id if you plan on changing visibility |
| 19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> to each player nametag texmod* |
| 19:41 |
hare_hare_yukai |
btw localhost u can check out this implementation of a minecraft shield |
| 19:41 |
hare_hare_yukai |
https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/src/branch/master/mods/ITEMS/mcl_shields |
| 19:42 |
erle |
luatic i don't see how the mask thing would work really. what are you masking? |
| 19:42 |
hare_hare_yukai |
luatic how do i send different pngs exactly? |
| 19:42 |
hare_hare_yukai |
can i do this in a mod or would this require changes to the minetest server itself |
| 19:43 |
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| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: the player nametag texmod which consists out of a bunch of [combine'd letter textures |
| 19:43 |
erle |
luatic do you have an implemented example? |
| 19:44 |
erle |
for some reason i think my idea is easier (render to texture and send that texture) than a mask thing, but i fear i might not understand it. |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hare_hare_yukai: look into dynamic media, you can send different PNGs to different clients in theory; problem here is that you'll get unfixable race conditions |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: the thing is, the mask thing basically only requires you to send a single pixel + a texmod (granted the texmod may be somewhat thicc, but it's definitely bearable) |
| 19:45 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> full_punch_interval works on "on_place"? |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: i don't have an implemented example; as said, it's still sending different textures, but only sending different masks to eliminate the need for rendering text to texture in a mod |
| 19:47 |
erle |
luatic i think i kinda get it, but every ”solution” i can envision to this problem is a horrible hack |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: yes. |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> wait |
| 19:48 |
erle |
luatic to amuse you, ancientmariner censored the word ”dragonfire” from my posts on mesehub and now my avaatar is this picture https://git.minetest.land/avatars/a451c27d9088cf8d823e18b46b6e3ae4ac70c2af2203f07c0e8cfae86dbbf563?size=80 |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i think i might have a neat hack |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> this is actually a really good hack idea |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hack in the nondragonfire sense |
| 19:50 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i removed it, and i clearly stated why. we know what it's called, and i don't see why we should promote something that kills the experience for many players |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> send every player a texmod that is transparent for them, and plain white for everyone else so to exclude a player from viewing a texture, just use ^[mask:playername.png to exclude any player in a group from viewing a texmod, do ^[mask:a.png^[mask:b.png etc. |
| 19:50 |
ROllerozxa |
erle: nice |
| 19:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i was enjoying having you on the issue tracker, and hope it's in good faith, did it only last a day? |
| 19:52 |
hare_hare_yukai |
okay let me add to my requirements for the thing i was talking about just now: i need to hide and rehide the nametag on demand |
| 19:52 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> many players don't like protection mods, but they're essential because of a cheat client that means you cannot play with a standard vanilla client. it kills anarchy for anyone playing vanilla. it's rubbish |
| 19:52 |
hare_hare_yukai |
possible? |
| 19:53 |
erle |
protection mods are NOT because of cheat clients |
| 19:54 |
erle |
protection mods exist because some humans are vile creatures that lie, cheat & steal |
| 19:54 |
erle |
btw, i have played anarchy with a vanilla client |
| 19:54 |
ROllerozxa |
utility clients are cool and valid, just use them responsibly |
| 19:54 |
erle |
it's a challenge, because you are basically up against gods |
| 19:54 |
erle |
but it can work |
| 19:54 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> basically with cheat clients people can search for chests and furnace and find any base |
| 19:54 |
erle |
i was told i should ”stop killing server admins” haha |
| 19:54 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you cannot hide bases anymore |
| 19:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> so you need to protect them |
| 19:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> it's why they're compulsory |
| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hare_hare_yukai: that's possible with both our approaches; with erle's approach it requires giving textures IDs and sending new textures, with my second approach it just requires changing object properties |
| 19:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i see cora copied your avatar now. you forgiven her for taking your game name? |
| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> oh also another option (i'm trying really hard to make erle's blood boil here) is to use the [png texture modifier |
| 19:55 |
erle |
technicalyl, rfynf invented that name and no, i never forgive. but i am morally aligned with her ig? |
| 19:55 |
erle |
:P |
| 19:56 |
erle |
ancientmariner could it ever occur to you that people find bases because your game – mineclone2 – blasts the coordinates to everyone having a network socket? |
| 19:56 |
erle |
(a little time with wireshark may confirm that) |
| 19:56 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> my game? the codebase is as much yours, cora's, flecks, and wuzzy's |
| 19:56 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you didn't fix that one yet? |
| 19:57 |
erle |
i think it's a bit recent |
| 19:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you don't need to use wireshark though because cheat client you can just select the block and find it |
| 19:57 |
erle |
just look at the network traffic |
| 19:57 |
erle |
no, i think you misunderstand me |
| 19:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> why go through network analysis when a gui makes it easy for all? |
| 19:57 |
erle |
some network packets advertise coordinates of player activity to everyone |
| 19:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> is there a mt issue for this? |
| 19:58 |
erle |
if you are sending them, it's not exactly the fault of a cheat client that ppl find bases |
| 19:58 |
erle |
that's not an mt thing |
| 19:58 |
erle |
the game is doing it |
| 19:58 |
erle |
luatic how would you send different textures to players using [png? |
| 19:58 |
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| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> the thing is, only a few people with your level of knowledge will know how |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> a cheat client will bring it to everyone |
| 19:59 |
erle |
ancientmariner the fault, naturally, lies with the game or mod yelling HERE IS A BASE |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> script kiddies and all |
| 19:59 |
erle |
people ALREADY know it |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: my brain farted, that would require involving a server which can send different object property messages to different players |
| 19:59 |
erle |
they have known for years |
| 19:59 |
erle |
luatic my blood stays unboiled then :D |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> the great thing about exploits, is usually the people that can do the tricky stuff aren't interested griefing. it's the ones without the capabilities to do that, that do |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> a cheat client cant use transparent textures, causes black texture đź‘€ |
| 20:00 |
erle |
there is a reason why the past exploits got fixed: the reason is cheat client authors fixed them |
| 20:00 |
erle |
as soon as the script kiddies get to it, the hole has to be stuffed |
| 20:00 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> the cheat client authors haven't yet |
| 20:00 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> and they were maintainers for months or years before i got involved |
| 20:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> so the assertion doesn't hold up |
| 20:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> it's just wishful thinking |
| 20:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I was think minetest more secure than MiNeCrAft |
| 20:01 |
erle |
anyway, the engine is not at fault here (not much though) |
| 20:01 |
erle |
through simple network analysis you can find it without a cheat client |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> localhost: no idea why you were thinking that |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you'd have to first define "secure" |
| 20:02 |
erle |
in fact, if you *would* use a cheat client, it would help you to avoid these things |
| 20:02 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Minecraft probably is much more complex, but it also uses Java, thus eliminating entire classes of vulnerabilities |
| 20:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> not many people have the capability for network analysis. i've been a dev for over a decade and i don't know how |
| 20:02 |
erle |
the ”find an oven” thing is totally uninteresting |
| 20:02 |
erle |
LOL |
| 20:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> why use a cheat client? i don't tend to download software with questionable intent on my system |
| 20:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't have time to audit that code |
| 20:03 |
erle |
your analysis is missing “i am the most experienced dev in the world” for the syllogism to hold |
| 20:03 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Auditing the diffs should be doable |
| 20:03 |
hare_hare_yukai |
network analysis: open wireshark and capture all traffic with 2 clicks |
| 20:03 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> esp. if you cherry-pick a few cheats so that you can patch the underlying issues that enable them |
| 20:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i didn't say i was. i'm pretty competent and don't know. it would take people with pretty solid technical skills |
| 20:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you're clearly more technical than me, and i have no bones saying that |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> network capture with wireshark is easy, but for Minetest you'll need to get the dissector to work (I also heard erle has some useful script?) |
| 20:04 |
erle |
the dissector worked last time |
| 20:04 |
erle |
and i already linked the script |
| 20:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i saw ehrl's script. it aggregates packet totals, right? |
| 20:05 |
erle |
yes, it is not for finding bases obv |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> it was for finding network perf issues IIRC? |
| 20:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i opened up wireshark, and had a look. couldn't make head or tail of it ;) |
| 20:05 |
erle |
in any case, i think it is poor form to blame the evil hackers if your software announces stuff to the world and they just listen |
| 20:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> network isn't my strong point |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> btw, if you don't want to fiddle with inspecting networking, you could also just insert some debug statements in networking code (C++) and recompile, but that would probably be more work |
| 20:05 |
erle |
yes that also works |
| 20:06 |
erle |
and in any case, minetest games should not trust the client |
| 20:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> only you and a handful of others know it announces and have the capability to find that out |
| 20:06 |
erle |
there is this stonecutter PR where cora (of all people) warned that it had an arbitrary item exploit |
| 20:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't agree with promoting a cheat client |
| 20:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i didn't realise you were this sensitive |
| 20:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i told you openly why. didn't think you'd tantrum |
| 20:07 |
erle |
i can asure you that every single person in this chatroom, including you can create a 10 line patch to make a rudimentary cheat client |
| 20:08 |
erle |
which they probably use as a DEBUG client |
| 20:08 |
erle |
and not to cheat in online multiplayer games |
| 20:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> erle, i have been quite open that i am burnt out and have been taking my foot of the gas with mcl2, do you think i have time to iron proof it against a cheat client? |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:08 |
erle |
no, i don't think so. maintainer burnout is a constant at mcl2 btw |
| 20:08 |
erle |
(and the forks) |
| 20:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i find it is generally good practice to tell people how they spend their time |
| 20:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i find it is generally not good practice to tell people how they spend their time |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> lol |
| 20:09 |
erle |
i am confused |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: ancientmariner forgot a not so he edited his message |
| 20:09 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> the easiest option was to remove the advertising. it was probably all i had the energy to do |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> tldr: put up or shut up |
| 20:09 |
erle |
oh so then i see 2 messages |
| 20:09 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> yes, i'm dyslexic. i missed not. i constantly edit |
| 20:09 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> feel free to mock |
| 20:09 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm very flawed |
| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> who isnt? |
| 20:10 |
erle |
it's not a problem with you, it's a problem with the bridge sending the message again |
| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> wsor: your mother |
| 20:10 |
erle |
i did not understand that at first |
| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (first wholesome joe mama joke in the history of mankind?) |
| 20:10 |
erle |
so when you edit, i see two very similar messages |
| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> perks of using a old af protocool 🤷 |
| 20:10 |
erle |
hehe |
| 20:11 |
erle |
multiplayer notepad with append-only |
| 20:11 |
erle |
ancientmariner it would be probably a good idea to stop worrying about cheat clients so much. they are not your enemy. in fact, the most obnoxious asshole griefers can't even use them right. |
| 20:11 |
erle |
most griefers are simple creatures, script-kiddies if you want |
| 20:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't worry. i just don't see why our issue tracker should promote them |
| 20:12 |
erle |
they are defeated by the fact that the cheat clients send a special chat message at start that a player is using one |
| 20:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> why are you so invested in advertising them? |
| 20:12 |
erle |
and servers can detect that and kick the person |
| 20:12 |
erle |
i think the asshole noobs never remove it |
| 20:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> lol, kicking and banning in mt is very flawed |
| 20:12 |
erle |
that would require actual skill |
| 20:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> ban circumvention is pretty high |
| 20:13 |
erle |
in any case, your anger is misdirected |
| 20:13 |
erle |
you should be angry at the people who try to get exploits into your project |
| 20:13 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm not angry... |
| 20:13 |
erle |
well, your dissatisfaction |
| 20:13 |
erle |
whatever it is |
| 20:13 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm pretty chill. just spend way too much entertaining you when you take satisfaction from trolling |
| 20:13 |
erle |
SOME people are submitting patches that introduce holes. e.g. in bedrock, lol. |
| 20:13 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm autistic, sometimes i get triggered and respond when i shouldn't |
| 20:13 |
erle |
and it is not me |
| 20:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ancientmariner must have a secret switch that turns off his emotions given how calm he is lol |
| 20:14 |
erle |
i'm pretty chili |
| 20:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> trolling works quite effectively on me, feel free to carry on |
| 20:14 |
erle |
btw, i hate the base finding exploits too |
| 20:15 |
erle |
dupes are fun |
| 20:15 |
erle |
but base finding exploits means some clowns fill your playground with lava |
| 20:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> one of the reason i actually left the discord for mt, i found it gave me waaay too much negative energy |
| 20:15 |
erle |
is “try to ignore the cheat clients and focus on the network packets” negative? |
| 20:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i think i'll zone out of this one too. i've not gained much from it |
| 20:15 |
erle |
really, no cheat client can do anything if mcl2 is not blasting coordinates like it's on 110% volume |
| 20:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> what part of "i don't have time and energy" do you not comprehend? |
| 20:16 |
erle |
the part where you don't have an underling you can assign that too |
| 20:16 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> :facebook: |
| 20:16 |
erle |
i am pretty sure there is someone who can help you there? |
| 20:16 |
erle |
i know how not having energy for a project feels |
| 20:17 |
erle |
so i know that delegating can work |
| 20:17 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> they haven't stepped forward yet. i'm not in the habit of telling people to volunteer their time in x and y manner |
| 20:17 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you project ended with you. ultimately there are very few you can really count on |
| 20:17 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> your project ended with you. ultimately there are very few you can really count on |
| 20:18 |
erle |
well that's because we were 2½ ppl or so |
| 20:18 |
erle |
that's technically already too little to do full code reviews |
| 20:18 |
erle |
you need 3 or 4 |
| 20:18 |
erle |
otherwise there is a stall every time someone is sick |
| 20:18 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> yeah, we don't really have that luxury |
| 20:18 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> got 2 people other than me that review code, and nowhere near enough |
| 20:19 |
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| 20:19 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> it's easy to talk about doing x, y and z. it's much harder to do it |
| 20:20 |
erle |
well, i am definitely not volunteering for code reviews rn. i am only interested in signs and maps for the time being. |
| 20:21 |
erle |
are @AFCMS and @chmodsayshello still on the project? weren't they proposed as co-maintainers or so? |
| 20:22 |
erle |
i mean they both seemed competent and willing |
| 20:22 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> afcms disappeared for months and returned recently. chmodsayshello reviews and is helpful |
| 20:22 |
erle |
but i have been away for a long time |
| 20:22 |
erle |
and kabou? |
| 20:22 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> lol, kabou is a net negative |
| 20:23 |
erle |
i don't necessarily disagree lol |
| 20:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> for every solid contribution, tends to start or continue 10 fights |
| 20:23 |
erle |
but kabou seemed eager and sometimes helpful |
| 20:23 |
erle |
oh yeah |
| 20:23 |
erle |
lol |
| 20:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> if kabou was involved, he'd probably be the only one. argue everyone out of the room |
| 20:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> shame. technically a smart person |
| 20:23 |
erle |
i think maybe you can ask chmodsayshello if they want to check out the network thing then? |
| 20:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> but ability to work together is key in larger projects |
| 20:24 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> could you? i'd be a middle man and have zero knowledge or context |
| 20:24 |
erle |
i remember saying something vague-ly ukraine-related when the war started and kabou spammed me with “azov are nazis” hehe |
| 20:24 |
erle |
point me to an issue and i write a comment |
| 20:24 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> yeah, but in the fact: minecraft can contain more vulns such as execute client code on remote server đź‘€ |
| 20:24 |
erle |
i am unashamed enough to ask strangers for favors |
| 20:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> localhost: Gefährliches Halbwissen |
| 20:25 |
erle |
localhost, in fact, minetest can too. |
| 20:25 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> news about vulns... not nice |
| 20:25 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't think it was azov that flattened mariuopol (sp?) |
| 20:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> azov were the ones that defended mariupol i think? |
| 20:26 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> eh... like buffer overflow? |
| 20:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> yup. dicks fighting against bigger dicks. atrocities should never be justifiable |
| 20:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> yup. dicks fighting against bigger dicks. atrocities should never be justified |
| 20:28 |
erle |
sorry, i have to inform myself about possible gender crimes |
| 20:28 |
erle |
so i can fem myself a bit |
| 20:28 |
erle |
i'm out for now |
| 20:37 |
hare_hare_yukai |
happy 9/11 guys |
| 21:15 |
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| 23:57 |
hare_hare_yukai |
if i do player:punch in a register_on_punchplayer would it cause an infinite loop? |
