| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:11 |
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| 01:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> What's an appropriate polling interval for the serverlist? Like, 60 seconds or something? i.e. I assume that's about how often it updates, and so there's no point in polling more frequently, right? |
| 01:13 |
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| 01:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> pretty sure its 5 minutes |
| 01:15 |
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| 01:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ah, okay. Wow, that's pretty long. But I guess that makes sense for a big central list that gets a lot of traffic. |
| 01:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm thinking I'm going to write a proxy for it locally, and I wanted to get an idea how long the TTL should be for the cache. |
| 01:38 |
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| 08:37 |
sfan5 |
the list updates instantly on announcement, which is probably several times a second |
| 08:37 |
sfan5 |
but there's probably no good reason to fetch it more than every 1-2 minutes |
| 08:46 |
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| 09:02 |
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| 10:04 |
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| 10:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> Is there a way to crosscompile minetest? I'm on debian linux and was asked to create custom clients for linux, windows, mac, android and iPhones, but so far the only OS I could muster is linux and maybe windows. |
| 10:35 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> for windows, crosscompile with mingw (see util/buildbot/buildwin{32,64}.sh). for android install the android SDK (and NDK) and ./gradlew assemblerelease. for mac you'd probably need an actual mac to do it, and iphone you can probably forget about |
| 11:22 |
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| 11:50 |
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| 11:54 |
Peter_Lankton |
... so nothing... no response? OK. While i stand by my apology for being rude to Flamore, i also stand by what i said about the community being toxic. When even the game's staff members like to resort to petty name-calling (see https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2023-04-16#i_6076932) then we know there is a problem. |
| 11:58 |
Peter_Lankton |
kinda surprised that person even approved my bio_api mod on contentDB since it had my IRC name in the screenshot. maybe they just didnt know it was me. |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> as long as it meets cdb requirements, who cares? |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *cdb package inclusion requirements |
| 12:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also unsure how your linked irc message is "name calling" and to what place they are staff |
| 12:09 |
Peter_Lankton |
they call me a "freak" and they are staff on the contentDB site because they approve mods. |
| 12:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> cdb != game, seems you should get your facts straight |
| 12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also, you technically fired the first shot across the bow by directly calling them out before they ever responded |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> not to mention there website is public which lists an age which meets your requirements |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ironically, what actually makes the community toxic is a few individuals who keep complaining that the community is toxic because of the actions of a handful of loud members who are in the long process of getting themselves banned from everything piece by piece. |
| 12:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> welcome to decentralization where you have to do dumb stuff on each platform to get banned |
| 12:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ish |
| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
not sure any of this is related |
| 12:12 |
Peter_Lankton |
perhaps, tho i have since removed that message from my site. i know about their age on their website. but mentally they act like a child. i think an adult would own up and admit they were wrong. but now they've just been silent on the matter. |
| 12:14 |
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| 12:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> even if they act like a child, ironic given the type of server you run (where people act in certain manners) |
| 12:15 |
Peter_Lankton |
i fail to understand your point. you saying players on my server are childish? how so? |
| 12:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I would normally have considered Festus as having fired the first shot here, but considering how Peter_Lankton has been dealing with things, it's starting to seem like this was a stunt to create controversy, and it worked... |
| 12:16 |
Peter_Lankton |
well it was that person who started it. they admitted to it |
| 12:18 |
Peter_Lankton |
i dont want controversy i just wanna run my server without being attacked by well known members of the community. but i will keep in mind that insults area no-no but attacking servers is a-ok. |
| 12:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We all had our suspicions. Botting seems to be equally likely a rank manipulation tactic by server owners as an actual attack, and it's very hard to tell the difference. |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i mean, it semi proved the any press is good press since the server is much more known now that before, and not in to terrible a way.....yet anyways |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *than before |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think right now that MT's server list does not have the infrastructure to limit servers to being advertised only to adults, and so that means having an obviously adult-oriented server advertised in the list risks our standing with organizations we rely on, like Google Play to list our Android app (which DOES make a difference for e.g. educators). Granted, they sometimes fail us for other reasons... |
| 12:21 |
Peter_Lankton |
except they ADMITTED TO DOING IT!! see https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=423844#p423844 |
| 12:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Personally I think it should be fine to run a server however you want, and it should be fine to list and advertise it, so long as it's to the right people. I'm just not sure how we should make that work in practice, and there are challenges to limiting access to minors in a way that people will accept as adequate. |
| 12:23 |
Peter_Lankton |
hmm... ya know what? we should think of the children and education settings. how about we add a new feature to minetest. a client side chat filter that can replace words like fuck and sex with **** and *** respectivly. and on desktop you can turn it off in the settings somewhere but on the google play build, you are not allowed to turn it off. |
| 12:24 |
potatoxel[m] |
i'd dislike that ;o |
| 12:24 |
potatoxel[m] |
you could also do like minecraft and not have a serverlist |
| 12:24 |
potatoxel[m] |
but i like serverlist |
| 12:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Hey I got a better idea, how about we treat other people respectfully and don't mock their needs? Or, I guess, if we ARE in the business of mocking educational use of Minetest, I guess we could mock other groups, like, say, people who are excessively enthusiastic about furry vore. |
| 12:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
minetest is a thing to do things in it |
| 12:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
idk why some people say its for kids |
| 12:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> There's no reason we need to have just one server list. |
| 12:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
its just a place to do stuff |
| 12:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
c; |
| 12:26 |
Peter_Lankton |
i actually really agree with what rubenwardy said here https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=423925#p423925 if minetest is used in education, the teachers should either disable the server list or use custom one. |
| 12:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The simplest solution given the tools we have right now would be if some volunteer, who can handle the implications, just runs an "adult" server list. |
| 12:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Frankly I find all the think-of-the-children-ism annoying too, since I run servers that don't have "adult content" per se but are definitely targeted to older audiences. I don't want to exclude children entirely but I'd rather it be the kind of place where adults bring their kids rather than random kids just showing up. |
| 12:31 |
Peter_Lankton |
im not against the idea of an adult server list. only problem is that how would adults even discover it? sure maybe there could forum post talking about it. but i think that server list would be barely used. |
| 12:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> But acting like being child-safe ruins everything for everyone is a false equivalence. One adult-oriented thing can spoil everything for people looking for something child safe, while actual adults should have no trouble working around a handful of child-oriented servers. We have to keep the defaults sane for the least common denominator. |
| 12:33 |
Peter_Lankton |
actually, it would be really cool if minetest could have multiple server lists it watches. as in, i can put multiple list urls in and see a combined server list in my multiplayer tab. i dont think thats possible now since the option says URL singular. |
| 12:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think an adult server list would only be used by adults who are looking to do adult stuff. Could actually be pretty few people, yes. But then, I think adult-oriented content for Minetest might be pretty niche anyway... |
| 12:34 |
Peter_Lankton |
one reason an adult server list would do so poorly in my opinion is because even if adults want to use it, they might also wanna use the main list. and if they have to choose, they would probably choose the one with more servers. |
| 12:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> As for multiple server lists, no need to support that in the client; the server list could just proxy the main one and merge it in. I actually wrote a proxy last night to filter the main list plus add my own announces. |
| 12:36 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah it is pretty niche. ive met at least one player (maybe 2) who were surprised to find vore in minetest but admitted to being into it. |
| 12:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Hey, congrats on meeting kindred spirits! I think it's great that Minetest lets people connect like that, even if some others think it's "icky" or something. |
| 12:40 |
Peter_Lankton |
thx! i fully understand that the main server list is probably not the best place to advertise my server. But as long as there are no rules against it, i would like it to be listed there. ive said before that if guidelines are put in place for the server list, i will voluntarily remove my server from the list. i intend to share my server on more niche communities that are into that kinda stuff in the hopes of getting |
| 12:40 |
Peter_Lankton |
more quality players. |
| 12:40 |
sfan5 |
creating a fully separate list has obvious implications for reachability |
| 12:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Everything everyone does is probably icky to at least some other person. We just need to figure out how to get along with each other despite knowing this. |
| 12:41 |
sfan5 |
the way forward is likely being able to mark individual servers as 18+, which the client can then filter |
| 12:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> How "buried" does an option need to be for e.g. Google Play to accept it not to affect our audience rating? Like, is a togglable option in Advanced Settings good enough, or do we need to make it more opaque than that to prevent kids from stumbling on it? |
| 12:43 |
Peter_Lankton |
sfan5, i agree that is the best solution going forward. maybe there could be a setting that enables the 18+ servers. for the more technical parents, a launch parameter could be made that removes that option all together. like "minetest --hide18plus" |
| 12:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> For more technical parents, a filtering server list proxy that lets them filter servers arbitrarily would be ideal. I just whipped up a little thing in nodejs but I'm tempted to publish it now. |
| 12:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Running a server list is actually extremely simple when you can assume that everything actually announcing to you is going to be on your LAN and you don't have to worry about geoip or ping or anything. |
| 12:46 |
Peter_Lankton |
thats a good question. i must admit that i am not sure. maybe the android version on google play would have that option removed. i know that if minetest ever makes an official Apple IOS build, minetest would probably have to have the 18+ filter setting forced on. i think discord does something similar for its NSFW channels on ios. |
| 12:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I also like the idea of flags and filters for the server list but I'm wondering what kind of timeframe that could take to implement, and what we do or have to deal with in the meantime. MT is volunteer run so that means we may need to have a backup plan while we wait for people to be ready to work on the long term fix. |
| 12:56 |
Peter_Lankton |
i guess my age dialog i have is sort of a short term fix. it does seem to work to keep kids out because ever since i added it to my server, my player count dropped significantly. sure some people may lie about their age, but there is nothing i can do about that. kids lie about their age all the time to access adult sites. |
| 13:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My only concern is that Google doesn't consider that an effective enough access control, spots the server on a random review, and ends up flagging the whole app as 18+, and it takes blood and sweat and red tape to get it changed back. As long as the MT devs don't consider that a significant risk, then I don't see a problem with it. |
| 13:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, I see a problem with it but not a solvable one (more of a societal issue maybe) so it's moot anyway 😄 |
| 13:05 |
Peter_Lankton |
that might be a risk. if so, then its probably more of a risk for the Multicraft fork that is way more popular with mobile users. Like 99% of my players were using it. I used to have the i3 mod on my server and i was confused as to why all players join and then leave a few seconds later. I later come to discover that Multicraft uses an older minetest version that doesnt support i3's formspec stuff so i3 was kicking them. |
| 13:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> iOS users use multicraft, but Android users have a choice, and you'd think at least they'd go with the one that's ad free and up to date, unless they're planning on playing mostly multicraft servers 😏 |
| 13:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IIRC multicraft only supports up to 5.4 or something, so while I don't specifically NOT support it on my server, I doubt it actually works most of the time, since they seem to lag too far behind in versions. I'm planning to EOS 5.5 soonish. |
| 13:12 |
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| 13:15 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah you'd think they'd go with the ad-free one. i actually wanted to check the download count just now and compare but it seems minetest is still removed from the store because of that false DMCA thing. so i guess they currently dont have a choice either right now. however i do reckon that they are using multicraft features. i kept hearing players mention that they have their own server then give an invite code thing |
| 13:15 |
Peter_Lankton |
and that confused me at first but then i found its a proprietary multicraft feature. |
| 13:18 |
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| 13:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm not surprised people use an app even if there is technically a "better" option. Besides the fact that what users actually care about can defy our own intuition, they just don't really shop around. Apps are not really presented as comparable; each looks like (and to some extent even really is) its own separate ecosystem and not interchangeable. |
| 13:21 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah, people are so used to walled gardens like facebook and discord. i would not be surprised of most of the players think of my server as a "multicraft server" rather than a minetest server. |
| 13:33 |
rubenwardy |
If content flags aren't implemented soon then the server should be removed until it is implemented |
| 13:35 |
Peter_Lankton |
well im glad we could have a civil discussion. i'd still like to see those who were/are certain that it was me who slandered the devs to admit they were wrong. and i would like to see Festus held accountable for what he did. not because he attacked my server, lets ignore what he did to me. he was not even the only one. think about what he did to you guys, the devs. this was more of an attack on you than it was on me... |
| 13:35 |
Peter_Lankton |
Unless... having your names plastered over a fetish server doesnt actually bother you. but it seemed to really bother y'all when you thought i was doing it. Im not even gonna ask for an apology from anyone. im not really bothered by being called a freak. i know i am. that doesn't even begin to describe me. i am absolutely disgusting. and my server is evidence of that. but thats who i am and i have come to accept it. |
| 13:39 |
Peter_Lankton |
@rubenwardy yeah. perhaps in the meantime, until content flags are added, some kind of server guidelines should be added instead. |
| 13:42 |
Peter_Lankton |
in the meantime i mean |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Tbh the idea of "freak" as an insult seems weirdly anachronistic, like a term from a bygone era when people still believed in the myth of "normal." |
| 13:49 |
Peter_Lankton |
i guess to me, "normal" is more of an insult lol. because to me, normal == boring. i think nowadays we dont use freak as often. instead people like to use the word degenerate. |
| 13:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Server guidelines would be nice but it suffers a lot of the same problem that the filtering system does, i.e. the requirement that a bunch of volunteers agree on a course of action. |
| 13:51 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah, whether content flags are added or server guidelines, someone will need to moderate the servers. because like what if this happened: https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/54#issuecomment-1512276366 |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I don't think normal is boring at all. If I ever met somebody who I actually got to know genuinely and discovered they really were normal, through and through, I think it could be an amazing discovery. |
| 13:53 |
Peter_Lankton |
i guess its the opposite for me. if i met someone and discovered they were weird like i am, it would be an amazing discovery. |
| 13:55 |
Peter_Lankton |
i guess when i think of "normal" i picture the average tiktok user who watches dancing videos on tiktok and mr beast on youtube and gets excited for each new star wars and marvel movie that comes out. i mean people can like whatever they want. im not trying to be insulting or mocking. but im just saying thats not the kind of person i could hang out with. |
| 13:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Everyone is weird in their own somewhat different way. If you learn to enjoy the fact that we may not all be weird in the same way but we're still all weird together then life is a lot more peaceful and you don't have to feel as alienated. |
| 13:57 |
Peter_Lankton |
that is true. everyone can be weird in their own way. i think everyone here is weird. i think you'd have to be kinda wierd to be interested in minetest or FOSS in general. but its not a bad thing. if anything, its a good thing. |
| 14:26 |
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| 14:34 |
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| 14:45 |
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| 14:46 |
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| 15:08 |
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| 15:12 |
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| 15:12 |
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| 15:15 |
giov4[m] |
Does anyone know what the hash positions in modified_nodes of the register_on_mapblocks_changed callback correspond to? Because they don't seem to match (modifying blocks at an x of about 1800 says the modified blocks are at an x of -105) |
| 15:15 |
giov4[m] |
* Does anyone know what the hash positions in modified_nodes of the register_on_mapblocks_changed callback correspond to? Because they don't seem to match the world's coordinates (modifying blocks at an x of about 1800 says the modified blocks are at an x of -105) |
| 15:15 |
giov4[m] |
* Does anyone know what the hash positions in modified_nodes of the register_on_mapblocks_changed callback correspond to? Because they don't seem to match the world's coordinates (modifying blocks at an x of about -1800 says the modified blocks are at an x of -105) |
| 15:18 |
giov4[m] |
oh wait I've just realized that those are the mapblock positions... I'm stupid |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:51 |
supas2pid |
is it possible to wield a 3d model in minetest? Like a 3d modeled gun mod with animations and stuff instead of just sprites that have the use animation on fire |
| 15:53 |
rubenwardy |
you can use first person attachments for that |
| 15:54 |
rubenwardy |
allows more control on animation and placement |
| 15:54 |
rubenwardy |
first person attachment is an entity attached to a player with a certain object property set to make it visisble |
| 15:55 |
supas2pid |
https://youtu.be/6x-WkMWhu1o?t=56 |
| 15:55 |
supas2pid |
do you think you could probably have something like this or would it be impossible |
| 15:58 |
supas2pid |
(don't mind the shaders) |
| 16:01 |
supas2pid |
i saw a mod with sprite based weapons although those don't react to the environment at all |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:13 |
Guest54_ |
Fleckenstein i do not know if you also found it, but i just noticed the thing that made shadows break in older versions of irrlicht was an optimization. i think either that optimization is faulty (though why should it be?) or maybe the meshes for which it failed were simply not closed (to quote irrlicht source code “if you would put water in it, |
| 16:13 |
Guest54_ |
that would leak out”). |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:22 |
giov4[m] |
hey I've noticed that if I try to save and serialize in the modstorage a very big table (~6mb) and deserialize it after, the deserialize doesn't seem to work. Also if I try to compress the serialized string, shut the server down, and try to decompress it it fails :( |
| 16:31 |
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| 16:34 |
giov4[m] |
could it be because I'm using files mod storage backend? I've tried to convert it to SQLite3 (using `minetest --server --migrate-mod-storage SQLite3 --worldname world`) but it says "An error occurred during migration: Mod storage database backend SQLite3 not supported". I'm on Windows 11, maybe that's the problem? |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> what version of minetest? |
| 16:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also, i wouldnt be suprised if your hitting the serialization limit (use json to get around that) |
| 16:36 |
giov4[m] |
MTDiscord: 5.7 |
| 16:37 |
giov4[m] |
MTDiscord: but it lets me serialize that though |
| 16:37 |
Niklp |
use "sqlite3" this is case sensitive |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yeah, deserialization is the issue, try serializing and deserializing without modstorage to verify |
| 16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also, use lowercase sqlite3 |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> basically unless your only using a small amount of data, never use minetest.(de)serialize because it will lead to data loss. areas, travelnet have changed to json over that, xban2 has not (aka, expect your ban list to fail if it grows large) |
| 16:40 |
Guest54_ |
giov4[m] out of interest, what exactly are you trying to do using mod storage? |
| 16:40 |
Niklp |
Your command must be `minetest --server --migrate-mod-storage sqlite3 --worldname world` |
| 16:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> serialize can handle what I would honestly call a "large" amount of data. It's just not infinite, and when you DO hit the limit, the results can be quite painful. It's okay to use it even if you have quite a lot of data, as long as you have a good idea of what the upper bound is. |
| 16:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> hence > fixed |
| 16:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Granted, JSON is probably better in a lot of other ways. It's more interoperable, making it easier to use and analyze your data externally, it doesn't have stupid limitations, and the kinds of data structures that serialize supports but JSON doesn't are the kind you probably don't want to be using in storage anyway. |
| 16:44 |
Guest54_ |
hmm, is it this luajit issue? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7574 |
| 16:45 |
Guest54_ |
> The problem with Lua deserialization comes from the fact that the stored table needs to be executed as code, which can break on LuaJIT's constant limit. |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> regular lua also has the issue |
| 16:46 |
Guest54_ |
huh, i thought regular lua would barf in a *different* way on large tables hehe |
| 16:47 |
giov4[m] |
<MTDiscord> "<Jonathon> basically unless your..." <- but can I save the data in the JSON format in the mod storage or it's necessary for me to use a separate .json file? |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you can still save it on mod storage |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> . s/on/in |
| 16:47 |
Guest54_ |
as i understand it, the problem with tables full of tables is that they occupy constant slots, while a single json blob does not |
| 16:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, take bets on how long krock/smalljoker will continue to pretend that xban2 is totally fine |
| 16:49 |
Guest54_ |
until the fun-hater that botted the furry server overflows it? |
| 16:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> technically its there staff that would overflow it by filling it up |
| 16:49 |
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| 16:50 |
Guest54_ |
well, i have witnessed enough ”fun” with mod storage some time back that i basically tell people to not use it whatsoever |
| 16:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> the issue was reported a long time ago and "fixed" by a chat command that cleans up tempbans. obviously that does nothing if you have a large number of bans |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> modstorage is perfectly fine |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> minetest.(de)serialize is not |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:51 |
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| 16:51 |
Guest54_ |
well … IIRC kay27 used mod storage to store which portal teleports the player where and when the server crashed at the wrong (or right, depending on POV) moment, it would result in hot garbage |
| 16:52 |
Guest54_ |
“hot” as in “teleport player into a lake of lava” |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> sounds like implementation issues on top |
| 16:52 |
appguru |
The real issue is that you're storing "large"ish data as.. one big thing |
| 16:52 |
Guest54_ |
it wasn't the *best* implementation, so to say lol |
| 16:52 |
appguru |
you should really be using mod storage or otherwise leveraging a proper database |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and probably because it assume that the modstorage would write instantly |
| 16:53 |
Guest54_ |
but the issue was not saving it in the same context |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *assumed |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> since sqlite3 mod storage, I'm now often torn between storing things as a serialized table (which works better for older versions, and ensures I can efficiently iterate the structure) vs individual keys (which works better for sqlite3 with random access, but makes iterating over keys more of a wildcard). |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> surprised lmd hasnt linked the direct sql in minetest api issue |
| 16:53 |
Guest54_ |
i think if you save “where does this portal go” in the mapblock meta, a crash can not easily desync things, whereas “keeping modstorage and map in sync” is not something anyone will do properly, lever |
| 16:53 |
Guest54_ |
ever |
| 16:54 |
appguru |
re giov4: "Does anyone know what the hash positions in modified_nodes of the register_on_mapblocks_changed callback correspond to?" Yes, the docs explicitly mention that those are *mapblock positions*. This means you should get the node positions - of where the modified *mapblock*, not a single node - starts by multiplying with 16. |
| 16:54 |
Guest54_ |
in the end, saving map data in non-map contexts is like the crashdupe |
| 16:54 |
appguru |
anyways Jonathon: No, (de)serialize *does not lose data* |
| 16:54 |
appguru |
onlymods improperly handing failing (de)serialization will lose data |
| 16:55 |
appguru |
and of course recovering the data may be problematic if it's "too large" for both Lua 5.1 and LuaJIT to execute, but other Lua implementations exist |
| 16:55 |
Guest54_ |
if i am not mistaken, data that is “too large” for luaJIT may work with lua 5.1 |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> in the file no, but trying to read back you wont get anything(thus being lost in the context of the code wanting it) |
| 16:56 |
appguru |
Guest54: Yes, but Lua 5.1 also has some limit, though I never ran into it |
| 16:57 |
Guest54_ |
appguru https://lua-l.lua.narkive.com/wfiYU51J/luajit-and-large-tables |
| 16:59 |
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| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
does minetest really not have a table deep equal util |
| 17:05 |
Guest54_ |
everyone i have seen needing it has written it themselves |
| 17:05 |
appguru |
rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/common/tests/serialize_spec.lua#L8-L36 |
| 17:05 |
Guest54_ |
make a mod ig? |
| 17:05 |
appguru |
it's not exposed though |
| 17:06 |
appguru |
(and it merely asserts rather than returning, but changing that is trivial) |
| 17:07 |
appguru |
the problem is that "table deep equal" can mean plenty of things depending on how complex you want it to be; I think I have like 3 funcs for it in modlib lol |
| 17:07 |
Guest54_ |
yeah lol |
| 17:07 |
Guest54_ |
when testing my unicode text rendering (still unpublished) i had the case of “are these rendered images equal” |
| 17:08 |
appguru |
some key questions: do you want to support circular tables? do you want to check whether a (bijective) reference mapping exists? do you support tables as table keys? is NaN == NaN for your purposes? do you compare metatables when comparing tables? |
| 17:08 |
Guest54_ |
obviously a table (bitmap) of tables (scanlines) of tables (pixels) containing color channel values is going to be an easier case hehe |
| 17:09 |
Guest54_ |
NaN lol |
| 17:09 |
Guest54_ |
carmack recently tweeted something about people combining things that look the same and producing more friction or so |
| 17:09 |
Guest54_ |
making things less maintainable |
| 17:10 |
Guest54_ |
having a single deep_compare function that is context-sensitive and has a gazillion parameters would fit right in hehe |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
local function deep_equal(a, b) return minetest.write_json(a) == minetest.write_json(b) end |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
no bugs |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
I see no problems with this |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
argh |
| 17:17 |
Krock |
what about functions? |
| 17:17 |
Krock |
userdata? |
| 17:18 |
Krock |
circular nested tables? |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
<json> huh? |
| 17:18 |
Krock |
<json> catches fire |
| 17:18 |
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| 17:20 |
Guest54_ |
minetest uses write_json(). it hurts itself in confusion! |
| 17:21 |
appguru |
does our write_json sort the keys? |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
great, the settingtypes noiseparam parser returns different types to core.settings:get_no_group |
| 17:28 |
Guest54_ |
appguru why should it? json is context free |
| 17:28 |
appguru |
it doesn't have to, but it could, e.g. to make it more human-readable or to facilitate comparing JSON strings |
| 17:28 |
appguru |
of course this would come at a performance cost |
| 17:28 |
appguru |
some implementations do, others don't |
| 17:29 |
appguru |
ideally it is configurable |
| 17:29 |
Guest54_ |
this all becomes much funnier when you think about that keys in json do not have to be unique |
| 17:30 |
Guest54_ |
when converting it to a hashmap or whatever, some implementations keep the last one. some implementations keep the first one. |
| 17:32 |
appguru |
and some implementations error or warn :] |
| 17:32 |
Guest54_ |
{"a":1,"a":1} is valid JSON and that is a hill that RFC 8259 is willing to die on |
| 17:32 |
Guest54_ |
appguru parser differentials are much funnier when they are invisible and no warnings or crashes happen |
| 17:34 |
Guest54_ |
in any case, most of the fun was already had https://seriot.ch/projects/parsing_json.html |
| 17:36 |
Guest54_ |
appguru what ordering would you chose anyway lol |
| 17:36 |
appguru |
sorting strings isn't a trivial problem, but for the sake of simplicity I'd choose a lexical ordering |
| 17:36 |
Guest54_ |
i vote for locale-aware collation |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
I vote against that for simplicity :P |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
besides, for ASCII it won't matter either way |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
and which lunatic would use non-ASCII table keys? |
| 17:37 |
appguru |
(there are of course valid use cases, but those are probably rare) |
| 17:38 |
appguru |
most of the time JSON table keys are (conceptionally) just struct field names |
| 17:38 |
Guest54_ |
someone mapping each unicode character to a bitmap haha |
| 17:38 |
appguru |
heh, if I'd be doing that I'd definitely prefer a lexical ordering |
| 17:38 |
Guest54_ |
IMO any constraint that you can not express in json schema is dubious at least |
| 17:39 |
Guest54_ |
and i am not aware of being able to make a schema “keys are ordered” |
| 17:42 |
Guest54_ |
ROllerozxa the correct response from an admin using your nickname would, of course, have been “you did not use your account for some time, if i had seen recent activity i would not have freed it” ;D |
| 17:43 |
Guest54_ |
meanwhile, i learned today that there exists minetest sam as a driver for supertuxkart |
| 17:43 |
Guest54_ |
but it is unrealistic, the sam is dual-wielding |
| 17:45 |
Guest54_ |
does anyone know how to check if a mesh is leaky? |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Try filling it with water |
| 17:48 |
appguru |
You could rasterize it then do a flood fil.l |
| 17:48 |
Guest54_ |
i have no idea how to do that lol |
| 17:49 |
appguru |
what do you need this for btw? |
| 17:49 |
appguru |
and how exact do you need this to be? |
| 17:49 |
Guest54_ |
i don't really need it, it's just that an optimization in irrlicht to render the shadow volumes is failing a bunch of models |
| 17:50 |
Guest54_ |
and i guess before i conclude the optimization is bogus i should figure out if the models are closed in the first place |
| 17:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> rasterization sounds like a thing that will only give you an approximation, and if they need it to be exact then that might not be good enough. |
| 17:52 |
Guest54_ |
appguru for context: in irrlicht, you can use addShadowVolumeSceneNode() to get stencil shadows (the doom 3 thing) |
| 17:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> (flashbacks to attempting to make maps for Quake 2) |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It seems like by now there must be tools out there to check for this kind of thing already... |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I wonder if loading it into a 3d printing slicer would work, since I get "corrected N mesh errors" kinds of things all the time loading stuff into PrusaSlicer. Unfortunately that might also be very false-positive-y so I dunno. |
| 17:55 |
Guest54_ |
well the easiest way to not deal with it is to just disable the optimization |
| 17:55 |
Guest54_ |
i.e. irrlicht has IShadowVolumeSceneNode::setOptimization to allow disabling optimizations for meshes that fail somehow |
| 17:56 |
Guest54_ |
that was added in … 2019 lol |
| 17:57 |
Guest54_ |
Fleckenstein i am also acutely aware of my own shadow since our call lol |
| 17:57 |
Guest54_ |
or shall i say, my own shadows |
| 18:00 |
appguru |
If I'm not mistaken, if a mesh is leaky, there must be a backface which can become visible from outside (and vice versa), so geometrically, couldn't you check whether, if you project all the rectangles into triangle space, the entire triangle is covered by frontfaces of other triangles? |
| 18:01 |
appguru |
not sure how this could be implemented (easily) without rasterization though :P |
| 18:01 |
ROllerozxa |
Guest54_: huh? |
| 18:01 |
Guest54_ |
ROllerozxa i was of jokings |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> https://xkcd.com/972/ |
| 18:02 |
Guest54_ |
appguru well this is how the failed outline optimization looks for sam https://mister-muffin.de/p/YuPe.png |
| 18:02 |
Guest54_ |
as i said, it all looks perfect if you disabled that thing |
| 18:02 |
appguru |
oof |
| 18:02 |
appguru |
well I believe Sam is tight except for the hair |
| 18:03 |
Guest54_ |
airtight vs hairtight |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
his arms, legs, body, and head are practically all just... cubic |
| 18:03 |
appguru |
does your definition of tight include the texture or only the geometry? |
| 18:03 |
Guest54_ |
as you can see here, the arms, legs, body and head make a proper shadow |
| 18:04 |
appguru |
because I think geometrically Sam is tight, with his head even double sealed |
| 18:04 |
appguru |
but of course you can see backfaces of the hair due to some of the hair pixels usually being transparent |
| 18:04 |
Guest54_ |
it's stencil shadows, so the only thing that matters is the mesh |
| 18:04 |
appguru |
in particular Sam doesn't have long hair in front of his eyes |
| 18:05 |
Guest54_ |
basically, you extrude the thing to infinity (or until the next wall, or how far your light reaches) |
| 18:05 |
appguru |
the stencil shadows do not take the texture into account at all? |
| 18:05 |
appguru |
that seems like a major drawback to me |
| 18:06 |
Guest54_ |
i had assumed you were familiar with them, but maybe i should read https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13164 again |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Not taking the texture into account could be fine like 99% of the time ... except I've got one guy on my server whose player skin has a hook arm, and that would probably look weird casting a full arm shadow... |
| 18:06 |
Guest54_ |
ok lol |
| 18:07 |
appguru |
Guest54_: It's been a while since I last did OGL |
| 18:07 |
appguru |
and I don't think I really got my shadows to work properly lol (I was much younger back then and didn't have a solid understanding of linear algebra) |
| 18:07 |
Guest54_ |
appguru don't worry, i'll just mentally down-rank whatever you wrote with confidence about proper rendering :P |
| 18:08 |
Guest54_ |
appguru this should bring you up to speed https://www.nealen.net/projects/ibr/shadows.pdf |
| 18:08 |
Guest54_ |
> A general statement in favor of a certain approach can not be made at this point, yet it is quite obvious (in the opinion of the author of this report) that an educated decision can be made which leads to very convincing results (figure 12). |
| 18:08 |
Guest54_ |
that's my favourite part of the paper hehe |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Once upon a time I actually had shadows for "item stack nodes" in NodeCore, but I ended up removing them because I couldn't make them work consistently across everything; they only worked in that one specific case. They were doing basically what that issue describes, with the extra shadow texture as a surface of the node. Z-fighting was not an issue because you can have a shadow float well above the surface in MT in many cases without |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
it being noticeable. |
| 18:10 |
Guest54_ |
you still have that code? would be interesting to me |
| 18:12 |
Guest54_ |
handling this at engine level using shadow volumes would obviously be a better way if you want crisp uniform colored shadows (given nodecore aesthetics i would assume you do) |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, well, it wasn't so much "code" as it was just using a signlike drawtype for the node, a shadow texture, and making sure it was always facing down. I think one of the things that killed it was the fact that I later added other nodes that could contain an item that weren't just an item stack node itself, and I didn't feel like drawing shadows on EACH of those. |
| 18:13 |
Guest54_ |
smoke and mirrors and shadows |
| 18:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Given NodeCore's aesthetics, actually, really diffuse shadows would work best, so the blurry circle under the thing would really fit the best. |
| 18:14 |
Guest54_ |
well you can just switch out the mesh from which the shadow volume is cast and blur the result lol |
| 18:15 |
Guest54_ |
oh btw i gave up on skyhell |
| 18:15 |
Guest54_ |
it was too tedious |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I don't know how some people do it. |
| 18:16 |
Guest54_ |
well i played hyperrogue instead |
| 18:16 |
Guest54_ |
another game where everything is my own fault if i fail |
| 18:17 |
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| 18:17 |
Guest54_ |
Kimapr i bet you are proud that i find hyperbolic space easier to navigate than your sky island |
| 18:17 |
Guest54_ |
Peter_Lankton is dating allowed on your server? |
| 18:18 |
Guest54_ |
everyone talks about anarchy vs non-anarchy servers, but the real divide is between romantics and those who don't have a heart (metaphorically) |
| 18:19 |
Peter_Lankton |
eh i dont care if people do dating RP on my server. |
| 18:19 |
Guest54_ |
if you can identify the disruptive user, there are a bunch of ways you can have FUN with them |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Playing on a server that caters to a more mature audience should skew the demographics older, which in turn should tend to make you feel less dated. |
| 18:20 |
Peter_Lankton |
you might not like my idea of a relationship. its far from normal. but its wholesome nonetheless. |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, there's that "normal" myth again :-D |
| 18:21 |
Guest54_ |
normals are a myth |
| 18:21 |
Guest54_ |
t. graphics eggsberd |
| 18:21 |
Peter_Lankton |
Guest54_ i agree. its fun to mess with trolls. thats why i made a jail mod which i have yet to put on contentDB but i plan to. |
| 18:21 |
Peter_Lankton |
on my server, one of the jails is inside a... well that thing i am a fan of. |
| 18:22 |
Guest54_ |
Peter_Lankton i was more thinking of sending them a HUD element with 17k texture modifiers |
| 18:23 |
Guest54_ |
or spawning lag particles wherever they go (in case minetest still lags itself to death if it sees enough particles) |
| 18:23 |
Peter_Lankton |
i dunno maybe normal is a myth. but im sure if i told you my fantasy, you would find it weird. maybe it would even make you wanna puke. |
| 18:23 |
Guest54_ |
this look like a classic troll tactic, the more you make it mysterious the more likely someone will ask |
| 18:23 |
Guest54_ |
and then puke |
| 18:24 |
Guest54_ |
i will do neither |
| 18:24 |
Guest54_ |
but i do have exquisite durian snacks here, bought yesterday |
| 18:24 |
Guest54_ |
Peter_Lankton did you ever try durian? |
| 18:24 |
Peter_Lankton |
well i would say it, its just that... i dont know if that would be a good idea. there might be kids here. |
| 18:24 |
appguru |
Peter_Lankton: Like whatever you like in private, but may I ask why you chose to announce your server to the public serverlist? |
| 18:24 |
Guest54_ |
to find other players? |
| 18:25 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah pretty much to find other players. i managed to find maybe 1 or 2 who share my interest in vore. |
| 18:26 |
Peter_Lankton |
nope ive never tried durian |
| 18:26 |
Guest54_ |
appguru assume, for a moment, that you feel an intense longing for being intimate with a toaster. in ye olde times, you'd be the weirdo of the village. but in these new exciting era, you can announce yourself on the internet that you are so inclined and find other toaster-enthusiasts to talk about whatever people talk who are into toasters i guess. |
| 18:26 |
Guest54_ |
what i mean is: it is perfectly natural to put yourself out there |
| 18:27 |
Guest54_ |
and given that Peter_Lankton shows restraint and does not post details to this chat i assume they also know most people are not interested |
| 18:27 |
Guest54_ |
yet, some are |
| 18:27 |
Guest54_ |
probably |
| 18:27 |
Guest54_ |
not me |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's still very "fashionable" to make fun of certain interests, but people are slowly becoming aware that a lot of them are not nearly as weird as they assumed. |
| 18:28 |
Peter_Lankton |
exactly. i know my interests are considered taboo. i dont wanna force them down peoples throats. here is not really the place to talk about it since most people are probably here to talk about minetest stuff. |
| 18:28 |
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Guest54 joined #minetest |
| 18:29 |
Guest54 |
Peter_Lankton durian is a FUN food so far that about ⅓ of people love it, ⅓ of people hate it to the point of describing it as “like rotten flesh” or ”vomit” and ⅓ is like “well, i would not pay money to eat this again” |
| 18:29 |
Guest54 |
and before trying it, you do not know which group you belong to |
| 18:29 |
Guest54 |
it makes too many people curious |
| 18:29 |
Guest54 |
perfect for a party |
| 18:30 |
Guest54 |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durian |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IIRC I had some of those nilla wafers, but instead of nilla flavored, they were durian flavored. I think I am in that 3rd middle group. |
| 18:30 |
Guest54 |
what is nilla? |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Most specifically I'm probably in the "did not enjoy it, but would eat it again just to make other people cringe" group. |
| 18:30 |
Peter_Lankton |
the way i see, you can be into whatever you want no matter how weird and gross as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> nilla is vanilla without the va |
| 18:30 |
Guest54 |
but what if hurting myself is *really fun*? |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I was gonna say |
| 18:31 |
Guest54 |
someone™ may have made a rumble CSM to control what can obviously only be described as an xbox gamepad using minetest damage |
| 18:32 |
Guest54 |
and that someone™ may have taken a lot of fall damage |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I would not advise that though. I heard you can get banned from chess for it. |
| 18:32 |
Guest54 |
i recently baffled my parents using my chess knowledge |
| 18:33 |
Guest54 |
i asked them if they know exactly what a bishop does, they did not know! |
| 18:33 |
Guest54 |
the answer is, of course “move diagonally” |
| 18:33 |
Peter_Lankton |
i mean that is some peoples' kinks. to which i say, if you can do it safely, go for it. or even if you cant, you do you. its a risk you are accepting by doing it. |
| 18:34 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 did the chess guy get banned? |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I don't remember how that actually worked out. |
| 18:34 |
Guest54 |
i think it was just that magnus carlson whined a lot because he lost against someone who had cheated online at some point in the past |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I was gonna say "...how that actually worked out in the end" but then I realized that may have been a little too on-point. |
| 18:34 |
Peter_Lankton |
anyway i am currently in the process of making my own serverlist. A.K.A. a static json file. |
| 18:35 |
Guest54 |
a curated server list for toaster lovers you mean? |
| 18:35 |
Oblomov |
fun fact, the chess bishop in italian is called alfiere (standard bearer) from the original persan role of the elephant (al-fil) |
| 18:35 |
Guest54 |
(relax, i'm just pulling your tail) |
| 18:36 |
Oblomov |
(is it plugged in to receive messages from the internet) |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I made a custom serverlist server for myself that actually accepts announces for servers on my LAN, and can also union in a filtered list of the upstream servers. The MT server/list/announce protocol is surprisingly simple. Most of the complexity is in latency estimation and such, and so if you don't actually NEED that... |
| 18:36 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 LAN autodiscovery of servers when |
| 18:37 |
Guest54 |
something something zeroconf |
| 18:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Heh, that mightn't be bad |
| 18:37 |
Guest54 |
xmpp has serverless messaging using mdns |
| 18:37 |
Peter_Lankton |
my serverlist was originally gonna be called "null_serverlist" and be a list with no servers. but now its a list that just has mine. |
| 18:37 |
Guest54 |
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0174.html#disco |
| 18:38 |
Peter_Lankton |
then i am thinking of sharing a minetest download of my own that has my list already set. and when i share my server with people who have never played minetest, i will encourage them to use my download. |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It shouldn't be too hard to whip up something simple that just pulls the MT main server list, adds in your own hand-curated servers at the top, and returns the result, thus being an effective full replacement for the upstream serverlist for your users. |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's not hard to publish a custom version of MT; if you only change stuff like main menu lua, images, and settings, you can ship the same binaries, so people can more easily verify and trust the compiled code. |
| 18:40 |
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Verticen joined #minetest |
| 18:41 |
Peter_Lankton |
i pretty much just took the windows portable binary and opened it on my windows vm and set the serverlist then closed it. now i can share that modified version and the binary is the same. |
| 18:42 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 btw how did you come up with the prism thingy btw? |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The prism thingy is simply a NOR gate, just like redstone torches; the only difference is that I require Vcc in like a real logic gate would. |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Basically NOR and NAND are the 2 binary logic gate types I know of that are turing-complete using only a single type of gate. |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I had some more ambitious ideas, like involving a ternary logic system, but they were so bonkers that I wasn't even sure I could prove they were turing complete to myself, so I stuck with what was simpler. Turns out it was just about balanced right. |
| 18:44 |
Guest54 |
this reminds me of when i made a flip-flop using two torches in mineclone2 |
| 18:44 |
Peter_Lankton |
i had a really funny idea. this is not something i wanna learn to do so i wont do it. but what if i made a minetest fork and called it adultcraft or adulttest and it uses a custom adult server list lol. i guess i kind of could without even editing the code by just changing the menu_header.png or something |
| 18:44 |
Guest54 |
i may have news for you, but a lot of people playing minetest are legally adults |
| 18:44 |
Guest54 |
i mean: it may be news to you |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yes, people have made rebranded MT versions without changing the binary. That's actually somewhat of an intended use-case. Minetest is trying to be an engine, after all. |
| 18:45 |
Guest54 |
trying hard or trying hardly, hehehe |
| 18:45 |
Peter_Lankton |
heh, its not news to me. if anything, it was news to me just how many kids use it. |
| 18:45 |
Guest54 |
why does the bigger serverlist not just EAT the smaller serverlist? |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm not actually sure I'm legally an adult. I just became one years ago and nobody tried to stop me, but for all I know they just never caught me. |
| 18:46 |
Peter_Lankton |
ooh the big server list vores the small one uwu |
| 18:46 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 i bet you are still using your government-assigned gender and name, ha! |
| 18:47 |
Guest54 |
you are not truly free as long as your name can still be spelled in the basic multilingual plane |
| 18:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I find the fact that Minetest is "marketed" to kids, or that people assume it's "supposed to be" for kids, weird. I mean, Minecraft is already for kids. This is FOSS, which tends to require a certain level of motivation and personal responsibility to even use. If anything Minetest should be far less "for kids" than Minecraft. |
| 18:47 |
Guest54 |
t. zalgo |
| 18:47 |
Guest54 |
nodecore kids edition when |
| 18:48 |
Guest54 |
for one, no fire |
| 18:48 |
Guest54 |
and no dangerous tools |
| 18:48 |
Guest54 |
sand is okay i guess |
| 18:48 |
Guest54 |
as is dirt, but make it edible |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, if you want a truly Kid's Edition of NodeCore ... that's basically Minecraft already. |
| 18:49 |
Peter_Lankton |
Warr1024 thats honestly what i thought going in. i only got into minetest modding around the start of 2023. i figured it was a somewhat niche project that mostly adults who like FOSS (like me) would use. and when i saw how the modding API works, i thought about trying to make a vore server. at the time i was not aware of multicraft and the huge amount of kids it brings to minetest servers. |
| 18:49 |
Guest54 |
Peter_Lankton do you have the p***z mod installed or the x***** **x mod? |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you take a game that was made by going back and questioning a lot of major decisions that were made early in Minecraft's design, and go back and question those decisions again, you'd just flip back around 😂 |
| 18:49 |
Guest54 |
there might be other answers though |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
like making nand prisms hehe |
| 18:50 |
Peter_Lankton |
to me i kind of think of minetest as an open source alternative to roblox rather than minecraft. to me its like roblox but open source and voxel. |
| 18:50 |
Peter_Lankton |
and not marketed to kids |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
nodecore needs an FQA: frequently questioned answers |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
Peter_Lankton the thing with kids earning robux is the worst |
| 18:51 |
Peter_Lankton |
oh yeah and decentralized unlike roblox. |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think re: the "for-kids-ness" of MT, the audience is diverse but very deeply segmented, and that's why people come screaming at you for putting stuff they don't approve of in a "game for kids". They just live in the part of the MT world where it's mostly dominated by kids. I've noticed that different kinds of content just draws different audiences, so it's a natural consequence of a community with lots of personal liberty. |
| 18:51 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah roblox is a pretty unethical company |
| 18:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ironically without adding any "adult" content per se, I've managed to make a game that's very naturally off-putting to kids, and most of my community is in like the 25 to 50 age range or something 😆 |
| 18:53 |
Guest54 |
hehe, i have a friend who's over 30 and she'd probably become really angry if i showed her nodecore |
| 18:54 |
Guest54 |
she does like puzzles, but there is a specific type that just frustrates her |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean it's still a niche appeal thing at any age range |
| 18:54 |
Guest54 |
i like how nodecore is naive literalism in game form |
| 18:54 |
Guest54 |
as resources are stored in the player's chest |
| 18:54 |
Guest54 |
and stick + stick = longer stick |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> but while I put in a lot of concessions for mainstream audiences, it's still supposed to be a game for people who felt like "mainstream appeal" games left undervalued them, more than it is supposed to be mass-popular. |
| 18:54 |
Guest54 |
not ladder or something like in other games |
| 18:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, the "chest" thing actually worked out into a kind of weird pun by accident |
| 18:56 |
Peter_Lankton |
i hate to admit it. but i get that my server kinda appeals to kids. i think its the only server where you can play as an animal. i did recently open source my morph mod, morph_api, and put it on contentDB however it doesn't actually include the animals from my server, as that is a part of my fetish mod which i have not open sourced yet. |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Originally I was gonna have a "toolbelt" but people complained about the way it looked, and I couldn't really do it any other way with where the model would have collided with it. |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A backpack was suggested but the idea that people behind you could see your items but people in front couldn't seemed too weird. So I wanted to put them in front and had to come up with the whole "bandolier" explanation. |
| 18:56 |
Guest54 |
what |
| 18:57 |
Guest54 |
i thought it was just a stupid joke |
| 18:57 |
Guest54 |
all the time |
| 18:57 |
Guest54 |
because items go in chests in other games and nodecore does not have that |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Peter: it might be actually helpful if you could find somebody to collaborate who's willing to run a non-vore version of the server that's less adult-specific and you could share innovations back and forth... |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, the idea of "chests" never entered my mind in developing nodecore. |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The biggest pun in nodecore is probably pumwater |
| 18:58 |
Guest54 |
why |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and the biggest joke about pumwater is that I'll start seeing pictures of volcanoes and IRL lava flows and have to stop myself from calling them pumwater. |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
why is it even called that |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
is it some joke like mese |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> because it freezes into pumice |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
oh |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
oh no |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
you got me |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> no, it's far worse than mese |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
https://content.minetest.net/packages/Winter94/wc_vulcan/ |
| 18:59 |
Guest54 |
> wc vulcan |
| 19:00 |
Guest54 |
flushing not needed i guess |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oh, yeah, he added pumcrete and other stuff |
| 19:00 |
Guest54 |
what's your opinion on that in gameplay terms? |
| 19:00 |
Guest54 |
i think games should not add too many redundancies |
| 19:00 |
Guest54 |
the thing that mineclone2 did with some additional oven that cooks food faster is just LAZY |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I almost convinced him to do the culmination of the joke, when he was talking about adding jack-o-lanterns that would use pumwater as their light source. I told him to name the regular gourds "pkins" so that when you add pumwater, they'd become pumpkins. |
| 19:01 |
Guest54 |
hehe |
| 19:01 |
Peter_Lankton |
hmm... i might have to look into that. i think i know someone who is interested in doing that. i personally have no interest in making and moderating a kid friendly server myself. someone else could though. they could even use my morph API but for now they would have to make their own mod to add animal morphs.. |
| 19:01 |
Guest54 |
what does the morph api do? |
| 19:01 |
Guest54 |
is it this one? https://content.minetest.net/packages/TimSon/morph_api/ |
| 19:02 |
Peter_Lankton |
you can learn more about it here https://content.minetest.net/packages/TimSon/morph_api/ or if you wanna see it in action.... well you'd have to come to my server. |
| 19:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Redundancies in gameplay are a trade-off. I find that the number you can tolerate depends on how many dimensions you can differentiate them by. For me, usually one "difficult but rewarding" path and one "easy but tedious" one is what I've generally been able to achieve. |
| 19:02 |
Peter_Lankton |
oh yep thats it lol |
| 19:02 |
Guest54 |
nice |
| 19:02 |
Guest54 |
can you make an enderman one where the player can only hold one block lol |
| 19:03 |
Peter_Lankton |
im sure its possible. could set the player hotbar to be 1 slot and make their inv just 1 slot lol |
| 19:03 |
Guest54 |
can you make one where player becomes an ant |
| 19:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The problem with redundant paths in gameplay is that if you don't have counterbalancing factors, one path will tend to dominate the others. This is one of the problems I've always had with "technic" sorts of mods; they tend to create paths that long-term are easier and more efficient than the previous ones, so eventually those previous paths are just unused anymore. |
| 19:04 |
Guest54 |
indeed |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NodeCore does have some of this, but the player has to really work incredibly hard to automate themselves out of a job |
| 19:04 |
Guest54 |
but there is also the case to be made by mark rosewater that you need some amount of suckiness |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and just like IRL "automating out of a job" you find that the technology tends to create at least as many problems as it solves, and while they may be different problems, they're still a lot of work 😅 |
| 19:04 |
Peter_Lankton |
oh yeah that just reminded me of a feature i forgot to document on the readme.md scaling. my morph_api also adds a way to scale players so they can be tiny or large. which my vore mod uses in the form of a shrink ray item (that item is not in the morph_api obviously) |
| 19:05 |
Guest54 |
he said that one reason why there are “clearly bad” magic cards in beginner products is because that allows beginners to figure out how to evaluate power level of cards |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm not familiar with Mark Rosewater but it sounds like Sturgeon's Law built on that work by fixing the amount of suckiness at 90%. |
| 19:05 |
Guest54 |
so if you made only cards that are not clearly bad or – worse – every card had a use, newbies would encounter a much harder to parse environment |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NodeCore uses tedium in some cases as a motivation for people to develop technologically. Or sometimes as a reward, I dunno ... players can be weirdly zen sometimes. |
| 19:06 |
Guest54 |
mark rosewater is the spokesperson and (was?) lead designer of magic the gathering, a tabletop game with a zillion parts |
| 19:06 |
Guest54 |
what's tedium? |
| 19:06 |
Guest54 |
> my morph_api also adds a way to scale players so they can be tiny or large |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> when mark roseice |
| 19:06 |
Guest54 |
this reminds me of when changing gender in a boat in mineclone2 would make you a giant |
| 19:07 |
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dabbill joined #minetest |
| 19:07 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
| 19:07 |
Peter_Lankton |
i guess i am too new to remember that bug but that sounds funny lol |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Heh, NodeCore has both the "some things are clearly useless" thing AND the "everything has a use" thing. The value of stuff shifts through different technological ages, so early on you're throwing all the ash from your furnace in your trash heap and complaining that there's no way to get rid of it completely, and then later you're breaking into your neighbor's base to raid his trash heap for ash because you can't find anyone willing to |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
sell you any anymore. |
| 19:08 |
Guest54 |
sell lol |
| 19:08 |
Guest54 |
capitacism transcends universes i guess |
| 19:08 |
Guest54 |
what's the use of ash, building materials? |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, I specifically designed NodeCore not to try to simulate an economy, but trade arises anyway. |
| 19:09 |
Guest54 |
adobe and aggregate ig? |
| 19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NodeCore trade isn't truly capitalistic though. It's not like some kind of idealized abstract market. There's a lot of relationship forming and such. |
| 19:10 |
Guest54 |
when i find the next dupe i will go to a server having minegeld again hehe |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, ash is used in concrete. Concrete-working is either really labor-intensive or very high-tech, so builds using a lot of especially etched concrete are apparently like a status symbol 😄 |
| 19:10 |
Guest54 |
and just donate money to players |
| 19:10 |
Guest54 |
though the skinner box approach was funniest so far |
| 19:11 |
Guest54 |
to recap: i once got banned on some server after making a machine near spawn that gave out one (1) item when pushing a button and had a lot of useless junk mixed with some valuables. |
| 19:11 |
Guest54 |
people started standing in front of the machine and pushed the button, the machine was protected using protection blocks |
| 19:12 |
Guest54 |
obviously i see little difference between players clicking to push a virtual button a lot to get gold or players clicking to mine a virtual mountain to get gold |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> heh, yeah, I've got a mechanic in NodeCore where smelting ores gives you a random amount of material ... and I've always wondered, should that qualify as "gambling" or not? |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If it does, then pretty much every RNG-based mechanics in gameplay does too |
| 19:14 |
Guest54 |
EU bans nodecore before 2025 obviously |
| 19:14 |
Guest54 |
lootbox law |
| 19:14 |
Guest54 |
:P |
| 19:14 |
Guest54 |
do you really *need* true randomness? |
| 19:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> but then how different is gaming from just standing in front of a slot machine, feeding small amounts of something valuable to you (time, money, whatever) in the hopes of getting some reward? And since you leave poorer in either case, it's really just for the dopamine. |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If I ever did a lootbox mod, it would be a lutebox mod. Every box would just contain a lute. No randomness. |
| 19:15 |
Guest54 |
well the admin in my case may have believed that my machine ruined the game since it was not “the intended way” to get minerals |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If somebody made a playable musical instrument mod I might do that as a derivative. |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> minecraft and mineclone2 are gambling then |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> since the mob drops vary |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If your machine gave them minerals without needing to actually play the game then it sounds like the game was already ruined to begin with. |
| 19:16 |
Guest54 |
i agree |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<RisingLeaf> if you are gaming with friends it is also to socialize though |
| 19:16 |
Guest54 |
my machine gave random rewards for pressing a button |
| 19:16 |
Guest54 |
i was just purifying the experience of playing a computer game |
| 19:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My justification for being okay with "ore gambling" in nodecore is that (1) the long-term payout is predictable, there's a known average, and (2) there's no psychological manipulation to make you unnaturally excited about anticipating a win or something ... in fact, it's mostly an annoyance 😄 |
| 19:17 |
Guest54 |
why not make the short-term payout predictable though? |
| 19:17 |
Peter_Lankton |
well i completed my static serverlist lol. if the serverlist domain is set to my site's domain, only my server shows up. |
| 19:17 |
Guest54 |
i mean with glass it's definitely not random what i get out of it |
| 19:18 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> that reminds me, I dont have the dual wielding PR built, maybe I should go see if nodecore works. |
| 19:18 |
|
Guest54 joined #minetest |
| 19:19 |
Guest54 |
tbh i fail to see what's so important in the dual wielding PR. last i looked at it it vaguely looked like a dupe waiting to happen. |
| 19:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Heh, I also don't really get the appeal of dual-wielding. And I don't really get how the controls for it would work, either. |
| 19:19 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> it gives players the use of both hands if the mod allows it. |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> basically its f to swap items between hands |
| 19:20 |
Guest54 |
yeah but can't you just fake that using lua? |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> and if the right hand item doesnt have a right click function and the left hand holds one that does, the left hand places |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> tbh it really sounds like a "just to be like minecraft" kind of change, and those are anathema in NodeCore. If it gets merged, I wonder if it might even be the thing to push me over the edge on my "get rid of the hotbar" idea. |
| 19:20 |
Guest54 |
like you have two mouse buttons |
| 19:21 |
Guest54 |
i mean shields in mineclone2 are faking it obv |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> yes, I can finally craft tools again in nodecore |
| 19:21 |
Guest54 |
and so far i fail to see why an offhand slot could not be done similar (maybe rendering?) |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Hmm, interesting, but I guess it wouldn't help in NodeCore. You effectively already have 8 "hands" you can swap between by using the hotbar hotkeys, and no item can't be placed on rightclick. |
| 19:22 |
Guest54 |
nodecore player avatar is octopus confirmed |
| 19:22 |
Guest54 |
hot lore directly from Warr1024! |
| 19:22 |
Guest54 |
octocore when |
| 19:22 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> satisfaction in watching gravity work and not work at the same time |
| 19:23 |
Guest54 |
what are you doing |
| 19:23 |
Guest54 |
PrairieWind have you played nodecore skyhell? |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, the NodeCore player is canonically some kind of ghost/spirit type thing de facto, but I had considered a number of completely non-humanoid and more amorphous shapes, only succumbing to the strong desire of players to use a familiar skin format. |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> yep |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> and I havent rage quit it yet |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> 🙂 |
| 19:23 |
Guest54 |
you are stronger than i am PrairieWind |
| 19:23 |
Guest54 |
i mean i have not quit in rage |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> I actually learned all I know about nodecore from playing skyhell |
| 19:24 |
Guest54 |
LOL |
| 19:24 |
Guest54 |
seems i have merely adopted the frustration, you were born in it |
| 19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's not about who ragequits and who doesn't, it's all about who ragerejoins the next day and continues to rageplay until they ragesucceed. |
| 19:24 |
Guest54 |
FUN like in dwarf fortress |
| 19:24 |
Guest54 |
i want more nodecorelikes |
| 19:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oh yeah, this game is apparently pretty popular with df players. |
| 19:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's actually kinda like a roguelike. It has no death, but it's perma-no-death. |
| 19:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> tbh it actually kind of works out to be the same as permadeath in some cases, because players who fall into deep dark caves and either get hopelessly lost or don't have the grit to get themselves back out basically quit and start a new world. |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I've fallen like that twice on stream before, gotten myself out both times, and each time it's rather involved. |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> There's this whole "don't panic, take stock of your situation, make a plan, find your way out, come back with equipment, build a proper way down and back up, and then find your stuff" process. |
| 19:28 |
Guest54 |
like in a roguelike, yes |
| 19:32 |
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FreeFull joined #minetest |
| 19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Well, most roguelikes feature a punishing death mechanic, but not many leave you responsible for figuring out on your own that you just died 😄 |
| 19:37 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> skyblock appeals to me considerably. |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> so nodecore skyhell adds the next level of fun to it. |
| 19:38 |
Guest54 |
singlenode skyhell when |
| 19:39 |
Guest54 |
only PrairieWind and air nodes |
| 19:41 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> jeez |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> An extremely space-constrained world might also be an interesting challenge approach. Say, you only have one mapblock worth of space in which to build, so complex automation comes at a cost. Maybe there's a way to earn more via some kind of extraordinary feat. |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> how to conjure up a dirt with eggling node quickly |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> inb4 somebody ports the airsword mod to nodecore |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> how does the air sword work? |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> Ive seen the mod but never downloaded it |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> actually there were at least 2 different incidents in which bugs allowed players on laggy enough servers to sometimes dig air as an item, so you could probably craft it. |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
unfortunately the air sword mod suffers from deprecation warmings |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
s/warmings/warnings/ |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> the air item is pretty interesting |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ironically it's the "sword" part that would be weird in nodecore, since nodecore doesn't really have a concept of violence done to other creatures. |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> all violence is metaphorical, and most is self-inflicted. |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> I found it interesting when I found out air could be obtained using the give command |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> radiation sickness |
| 19:45 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> 🤮 |
| 19:46 |
Guest54 |
i believe Fleckenstein once gave out free “air” items but i was lied to: it was not 420 count, it was always less, 413 or so |
| 19:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, the brutality of radiation in skyhell is kind of an unintended-at-the-time-but-later-intended consequence of the fact that the minimum resource makeup necessary to achieve fully renewability involves so much lux. |
| 19:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> 413 is a completely different meme than 420 |
| 19:46 |
Guest54 |
well someone of course stole some air |
| 19:47 |
Guest54 |
why is lux radioactive in the first place |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> surprisingly, my sky island looks intact and unraided still |
| 19:47 |
Guest54 |
why would one raid it |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, it's kind of hard to raid bases even in vanilla nodecore... |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> well I havent been on in a while, adn kimapr did build a skybridge to it last time I was on, kind of at my request and his suggestion |
| 19:48 |
Guest54 |
skyhell is more like durian nodecore |
| 19:48 |
Guest54 |
why would Kimapr steal anything from your island |
| 19:48 |
Guest54 |
it is obviously too easy if there is a bridge |
| 19:48 |
Guest54 |
like candy from a baby |
| 19:48 |
Guest54 |
that's not challenging or creative |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> why would he? |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> im saying somebody else could raid it from the skybridge network |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Hmm, I have no intention of adding food to the game, but if I did, now that you mention it, durian is actually a really good idea for what the first food item would be. |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Sometimes when people feel like they're struggling for basic survival, it drives them to try to take advantage of each other, and sometimes it drives them to huddle together and cooperate. I'm not sure exactly what kind of factors affect that, but I'm kind of happy that NodeCore seems to be the kind of game that players feel compelled to unite against. |
| 19:51 |
Guest54 |
couldn't it just be that some people are assclowns |
| 19:51 |
Guest54 |
i mean on anarchy servers most people cooperate |
| 19:51 |
Guest54 |
but some just want to see the world burn |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Well, I have noticed that assclowns usually don't like to put in a lot of effort into assclownry, so just having some simple barriers to entry can really cut down on that. |
| 19:53 |
Guest54 |
yeah |
| 19:54 |
Guest54 |
my go-to recipe is making a base in an area that somehow sucks |
| 19:54 |
Guest54 |
like hard to access even using cheats |
| 19:54 |
Guest54 |
and little resources |
| 19:54 |
Guest54 |
wait that sounds like skyblock a bit |
| 19:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Like a skyhell server :-) |
| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> haha, ngl, "maybe we should start the player out with less dirt" has been a discussion. |
| 19:55 |
Guest54 |
what if |
| 19:55 |
Guest54 |
wait dirt goes the way of the dodo with tree |
| 19:56 |
Guest54 |
eggcorn eat dirt |
| 19:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Trees probabilistically produce a net gain in dirt over time, since you get enough leaves to make something like 2.1 peat on average |
| 19:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I actually rigorously did the math once. Trees are a MESS of probabilities. |
| 19:57 |
Guest54 |
on average |
| 19:57 |
Guest54 |
predictable RNG in nodecore when |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> There's the original schematic with all the y slice and node probabilities, then there's the cellular automaton that grows into a tree that's designed to exactly match the probability distribution of the schematic, and then the drop rates of all things have to be balanced to control the exponential growth of long-run tree farming. |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Actually tbh if we could do the kind of RNG that's deterministic if you have perfect control (like the kind people use in tool assisted speedruns) that would be kinda awesome... |
| 19:58 |
Guest54 |
i believe there exists some wesnoth mod that just makes the overall probabilities the same, but is like, predictably random |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I love the idea of replayable demo recordings being a thing... |
| 19:58 |
Guest54 |
you need to have a real ordering of ABM steps for that first probably |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Well, there's a lot in MT that works against that, like variable globalsteps even |
| 19:59 |
Guest54 |
and given minetest itself is pretty racy |
| 19:59 |
Guest54 |
i doubt it |
| 19:59 |
Guest54 |
is possible |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> MT is super racy |
| 19:59 |
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| 19:59 |
Guest54 |
i compiled minetest using thread sanitizer and then stopped trying to make sense of data races |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My life for the last several years has been a roiling quantum foam of async dispatches and racing callbacks, so it doesn't even bother me that much anymore. |
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