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lissobone |
Oblomov: Greetings. How's oblomovshina going? |
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| 07:59 |
Oblomov |
wat |
| 08:00 |
Oblomov |
oh it was translatd oblomovism in the version I read 8-D |
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MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> O my gosh it's oblomov |
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| 16:53 |
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| 16:54 |
nullone |
Hey guys i'm writing a mod and it checks if another mod will crash or not and i can't seem to find a solution |
| 16:54 |
nullone |
Like, i need to check if a mod will enter an infinite loop but i don't know how to check |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<MarkTheSmeagol> Look up the halting problem on wikipedia. |
| 16:55 |
nullone |
Dammit |
| 16:55 |
nullone |
But why would anyone make my mod get an infinite loop if it returns halts? |
| 16:56 |
nullone |
Seems a bit arbituary |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<archfan7411> sure I can write a mod for you that does that, I'll start writing it now, let me know if I get stuck in the process of writing it though |
| 17:04 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nullone: the point is that it's unsolvable |
| 17:05 |
nullone |
In any case. all mods will eventually holt |
| 17:05 |
nullone |
I'll let you try it net time you play Minetest |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> anyways, the best you can do is timeouts etc. - if a mod is doing something for more than a minute, it probably got stuck |
| 17:07 |
nullone |
ok |
| 17:08 |
nullone |
Next time you play minetst, you will eventually stop all the mods; all mods stop. |
| 17:09 |
MTDiscord |
<MarkTheSmeagol> Being interrupted isn't necessarily the same as halting. Otherwise, the finite lifespan of the universe, or even the hardware of the theoretical Turing machine, would solve the halting problem. |
| 17:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You don't have to solve the halting problem, necessarily, because you don't need to know if you're stuck in an infinite loop ... you just need to know that you're stuck in a loop that's TOO LONG. |
| 17:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nullone: then why don't you simply make a mod that returns that no other mod has an infinite loop, because all mods are ultimately terminated? |
| 17:14 |
nullone |
oh ok |
| 17:14 |
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the joined #minetest |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that said, you sometimes can determine an infinite loop if a certain state recurs |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> What you want is basically a watchdog: something that checks to make sure MT is still alive. Like, write the current time to a text file in the world dir every couple of seconds, and then an external process checks that file periodically, and if it hasn't changed for a minute or two, then you're frozen and should kick the server over. |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> but not all infinite loops will be this simple |
| 17:15 |
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| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Infinite loops are not that hard to detect for sufficiently small values of infinity. |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the pain of no first-class luasockets support 🫠 |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Don't forget that the halting problem is trivially solved by the 2nd law of thermodynamics. |
| 17:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I actually use a solution on my servers that's based on 2nd-class luasocket support. I just thought of the file hack just now ... it's actually kind of nice and simple... |
| 17:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> on a serious note, many infinite loops may be this simple |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:25 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> if you just want to do IPC I assume Lua's normal io library can handle named pipes? |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MarkTheSmeagol> Do all supported OSs have a named pipe equivalent? |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Unix and Windows have them so yes? |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> To avoid the same problem as luasocket you'd create them externally but on Windows I'm not sure if that's possible. |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> (umm android) |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I don't think anyone hosts servers on Android |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> ah LOL |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yeah nobody sane would host a server on android |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> When was the last time you ran into a sane person around here |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> ... |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> hmm yeah |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> maybe someone back when I first joined here, back in april 2021 🤔 |
| 17:39 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> heh, so Android has the ability to make them but Android wack filesystem permissions would be a problem, plus apparently most phones use FAT so you can't even make one(?) |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MarkTheSmeagol> What about that wasm thing someone was showing off a while back? |
| 18:32 |
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| 19:07 |
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| 19:17 |
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| 19:37 |
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| 19:59 |
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| 20:05 |
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| 20:38 |
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| 20:38 |
daxfold |
oh yeah that |
| 20:38 |
daxfold |
https://minetest.dustlabs.io/ |
| 20:41 |
DeepThgt |
woah |
| 20:48 |
daxfold |
cool right |
| 20:49 |
DeepThgt |
ya, takes forever to load the server i play on currently though |
| 20:49 |
daxfold |
it is in a browser so its to be expected |
| 20:49 |
DeepThgt |
ya not a real complaint |
| 20:49 |
daxfold |
but its still very cool |
| 20:49 |
DeepThgt |
a little glitchy |
| 20:50 |
daxfold |
for sure, but its playable (i havent tested everything ofc) |
| 20:52 |
daxfold |
there is one big limitation though: it will crash when on a server using more than 2gb of memory |
| 20:52 |
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