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FavoritoHJS |
here's a stupid idea: it seems like `file:`URIs act as an url that returns an arbitrary stream depending on what it's pointing... |
| 01:10 |
FavoritoHJS |
so can you use that to make a kiwiirc theme without relying on another server? |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> i suppose they are just css files ? |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> in that case even if a file url doesnt work you can use local css overrides - most browsers prob have that |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> userContent.css or something in firefox |
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Yad |
Is it possible to create moving structures out of nodes rather than entities? |
| 02:14 |
Yad |
For example, ships which sail upon the seas. |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> there's a mod that can make a movable/ridable entity out of a bunch of nodes |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> https://github.com/stujones11/meshnode |
| 02:42 |
MTDiscord |
<cora> https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/mcl_meshnode |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> (the latter works in mtg too despite the name + ithas a couple fixes the original doesn't i think ) |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> of course a mod could theoretically make a bunch of nodes seemingly move coherently |
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MTDiscord |
<cora> but that's probably not a good idea |
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| 17:26 |
independent56 |
Ok, so my CV is missing "Worked with others on a collaborative project providing a platforms for people to provide a platform on" |
| 17:27 |
independent56 |
So, what should i do to contribute to Minetest as a begginer? |
| 17:32 |
celeron55 |
what skills do you want to use? generally i'd say, go browse some PRs and issues to see if someone needs something to be tested |
| 17:33 |
independent56 |
I need to do programming TBH, and doing solo projects gets kind of old and unteaching eventually, thus Minetest |
| 17:34 |
independent56 |
I'm looking for issues but can't seem to find many that are at my skill level and yet unsolved |
| 17:34 |
independent56 |
Should i do this one? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8982 |
| 17:37 |
rubenwardy |
look for [beginner friendly] |
| 17:37 |
rubenwardy |
or things that annoy you |
| 17:38 |
independent56 |
Thank you |
| 17:39 |
independent56 |
Ah yes, that password one is annoying and begginerfriendly. I don't want ANYONE to know my new password is "accountLocked" or something lol |
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| 18:12 |
Yad |
independent56: Are you someone with C++ experience? Or more in the direction of Lua? |
| 18:13 |
independent56 |
I have a bit of Lua experience from modding |
| 18:13 |
Yad |
independent56: Modding of what? |
| 18:13 |
independent56 |
But looking at the code, it seems quite simple to just learn based on surroundings how to implement stuff; a line might do something and i can paraphrase that line quite easily |
| 18:13 |
independent56 |
I have made a few small mods, but not many |
| 18:14 |
Yad |
independent56: Nice, so you're less of a beginner than many people. :-) |
| 18:15 |
independent56 |
I do have experience with other languages. |
| 18:15 |
independent56 |
Like Python and Ruby, which are similar to Lua |
| 18:15 |
Yad |
independent56: Something which isn't necessarily obvious, but you might do well to consider, is that we have some very short words which take alternate definitions in the namespace of writing/speaking about Minetest in English. |
| 18:16 |
independent56 |
Let's see some examples |
| 18:16 |
Yad |
independent56: So for example, unless I'm mistaken when we say "mod" it's less short for "modification" and more short for "module" |
| 18:16 |
Yad |
independent56: And a "game" is simply a collection of "mods" |
| 18:16 |
independent56 |
Intresting |
| 18:16 |
independent56 |
A bit like a "multiplication" is a collection of "additions" in maths |
| 18:16 |
Yad |
independent56: so the verb "modding" could be misleading |
| 18:17 |
Yad |
independent56: hmm, that might actually be a good analogy |
| 18:17 |
Yad |
independent56: of course it's topologically true that every mod ("module") modifies ("mods") a game (a collection of mods) |
| 18:18 |
Yad |
independent56: but in many gaming situations there is a strong distinction between "official" or "in-the-actual-ganme" code and code which is considered to be part of a mod ("modification") |
| 18:19 |
independent56 |
intresting |
| 18:19 |
Yad |
independent56: I suppose a person could contend that the C++ code is the "in-the-actual-game" code and the Lua code is the mod ("modification") code |
| 18:19 |
Yad |
independent56: but the role of the C++ code in Minetest is more that of an engine or a platform than that of a game |
| 18:19 |
Yad |
independent56: hence we call collections of mods, games -- games for Minetest |
| 18:20 |
Yad |
independent56: and of course the game which is bundled with Minetest is confusingly titled "Minetest Game" |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
Yad |
independent56: and contributing further to obscuring the situation from newer people such as yourself, many of the mods ("modules") which make up the Minetest Game game for Minetest, are stored in the /games/Minetest Game/mods folder within the application folder... |
| 18:21 |
independent56 |
At least Java programmers didn't make it "DefaultGameforGameEngineMinetestConstructorClassGame" lol |
| 18:21 |
Yad |
independent56: ...rather than being in the ~/.minetest/games/Minetest Game/mods folder |
| 18:22 |
Yad |
independent56: LOL at least that level of verbosity might be less ambiguous to new people xD |
| 18:22 |
independent56 |
If you want Java, go to Minecrap lol |
| 18:22 |
independent56 |
I have been running a server for about a year so i wouldn't say i'm a begginer to minetest |
| 18:22 |
Yad |
independent56: if I may indulge in a shameless plug, I think a great game for learning the Lua API for Minetest, is Exile |
| 18:22 |
independent56 |
I've had to modify modifications many times |
| 18:23 |
Yad |
independent56: Oh then I feel even better about suggesting Exile. |
| 18:23 |
Yad |
independent56: It shouldn't be too far beyond you to learn from. |
| 18:24 |
Yad |
https://content.minetest.net/packages/Mantar/exile/ |
| 18:24 |
Yad |
independent56: Founded by Dokimi, now maintained by Mantar, and I'm one of the more-casual developers for it. |
| 18:25 |
Yad |
There are at least two public servers running Exile currently, but it's also a great single-player game. |
| 18:25 |
independent56 |
I'm not as intrested in mods as i am in developing software a ton of people use |
| 18:25 |
independent56 |
I plan to work on the linux kernel later just to get my keystrokes running the world |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:26 |
Yad |
independent56: Hahah, nice. Kernel development is vitally important. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you are seeking in this chat today? |
| 18:26 |
FavoritoHJS |
ehh, not quite, independent56, it's more like `@Subgame("minetestgame") MinetestGame extends Modpack`... in a class called net.celeron55.minetest.subgames.mtg.MinetestGame... and all the mods are in other classes... |
| 18:26 |
independent56 |
yeah but then that's not as funny as excess verbosity |
| 18:26 |
FavoritoHJS |
the funny lies in the packages |
| 18:27 |
Yad |
FavoritoHJS: hahah, we are still joking here right because there's no Java in Minetest's codebase? |
| 18:27 |
FavoritoHJS |
yes |
| 18:27 |
FavoritoHJS |
(cries in mcp) |
| 18:30 |
independent56 |
Yad, My goal is to add to my CV with the most impressive bullet points "contributed to a shared project promoting education and API programming" seems cool, alongside "contributed to code for the server you're reading this CV from" |
| 18:30 |
Yad |
independent56: Well it's easy to create impressive-sounding bullet points but the question will be how much knowledge you have backing them up heheh |
| 18:31 |
independent56 |
lol whoops |
| 18:32 |
independent56 |
"Submitted 50 keystrokes to a distrobuted network for communication of good ideas using the IRC protocol" also sounds impressive |
| 18:37 |
ROllerozxa |
minetest actually does have a small amount of java code for the android version though it's mostly just glue for the native code to communicate and work with android APIs |
| 18:37 |
Yad |
ROllerozxa: Ohhh, I completely forgot about the Android port in this conversation hahahah |
| 18:38 |
Yad |
ROllerozxa: I'm not a fan of using Android for this. heheh |
| 18:38 |
independent56 |
Java <<<< Kotlin |
| 18:38 |
independent56 |
Imma port it RN if i could |
| 18:38 |
Yad |
ROllerozxa: But maybe if people would use USB or Bluetooth mouse/keyboard for their Android devices that could be okay with me hahah |
| 18:38 |
Yad |
independent56: :P |
| 18:39 |
independent56 |
Why am i suprised 2017 is already 6 years ago? Advtrains can't possibly be that old! |
| 18:39 |
Yad |
independent56: If you could remove the range limits from `minetest.set_eye_offset([firstperson, thirdperson])` that would actually help me in a game I'm working on, and shouldn't be too difficult to change in the Minetest C++ |
| 18:40 |
independent56 |
I'll have a look |
| 18:40 |
Yad |
independent56: Thanks. ^^ |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I've never seen a <<<< operator before, but I guess it looks like it'd mean something like Java << (1 << Kotlin) |
| 18:41 |
independent56 |
I'm not rubwaenrdy |
| 18:41 |
Yad |
independent56: Rumour has it those limits were put in place by a developer who left the project years ago in an unfriendly fork. |
| 18:41 |
Yad |
independent56: And it's a function not often used so nobody has fixed it. |
| 18:41 |
independent56 |
It's great they finally left Minetest alone |
| 18:42 |
FavoritoHJS |
rule 2 of programming: if jank, blame someone else |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:42 |
Yad |
independent56: Yeah all that drama happened before I got involved, apparently. |
| 18:42 |
Yad |
independent56: I first used Minetest circa November 2019. |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If there are limits in the engine, it's often because of some other limit which is harder to remove (e.g. because the map coords are 16-bit ints, or because increasing the maximum size of hitboxes makes collision checking costs grow very fast). |
| 18:43 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Yeah I'm curious if that's the situation with set_eye_offset, or if it's arbitrary. |
| 18:43 |
independent56 |
https://pastebin.com/j1ZPa6Zg |
| 18:43 |
independent56 |
HEre's the git diff i made |
| 18:43 |
independent56 |
You can merge it if you want (CC-BY) |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you could set eye offset arbitrarily far away, you'd probably find that it starts to break terrain loading, because that's tied to body location, not viewpoint location, and disconnecting these things is non-trivial. There might be a PR in the works already (Camera API) that might fix the underlying flaw, though, so that limit might not always remain the same. |
| 18:44 |
Yad |
Thanks independent56 ! |
| 18:44 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Well sure there's probably a practical limit, but I'd rather have it throw a warning into the in-game chat than to ignore my command. |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "prevent abuse" sounds more like it's some kind of "prevent players from using eye offsets to clip into terrain for xray vision cheats" kind of thing, I suppose. |
| 18:45 |
independent56 |
You'd have to make your own engine for now, but you can make it a Minetest fork (finished minetest?) |
| 18:45 |
Yad |
independent56: Well if nothing else you saved me the time of finding it in the source code, so thanks for that. :D |
| 18:45 |
Yad |
independent56: Now I know it really is as simple as two or three lines in the C++ |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
Yad |
Warr1024, independent56 : The reason I want wider ranges is I want to be able to pan the camera when using certain furniture in 3rd-person view. |
| 18:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You can work around a lot of these sorts of things, it's just Jank City, that's all. e.g. create a luaent to represent the player's body, make the player invisible, use attachments to attach them wherever you want relative to the body ent, and then plug your ears and LALALA whenever anyone mentions multiplayer or network latency. |
| 18:47 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Jank City indeed...we're basically treating the *camera* as being the same thing as the *player* which seems to be the limiting factor here. xD |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I've got a mod that follows players with a 3rd person camera. Because of the way MT's camera works right now, I can't do much fancy camera work, about all I can do is jump cuts to a new angle where the player is in frame, and then jump away again if they move out of frame. I'm hoping Camera API improvements give me more options, but I guess I just have to live with it for now... |
| 18:49 |
Yad |
Yeah I'd like to be not limited to humanoid characters. |
| 18:49 |
Yad |
And the current camera API makes it very difficult to create vehicles. |
| 18:50 |
Yad |
Warr1024: And have you ever seen that stuff about people making ships out of nodes which are able to move independently of the main matrix? |
| 18:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't see any reason you can't do non-humanoid characters as it is, other than just cultural friction (e.g. players expecting to be able to import skins from other games). You can't necessarily do ones at arbitrary scale relative to nodes, but you could still probably just change the effective scale of nodes themselves... |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I've seen the videos of people turning a bunch of nodes into a bunch of entities and then piloting them around, yeah. |
| 18:51 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Is that what they're doing? |
| 18:51 |
Yad |
Warr1024: I felt like nobody was able to give me a straight answer as to whether it was actually entities. |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I hear somebody talk about it every month or so. I don't think any real advancements have been made in a couple years though. |
| 18:51 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Hahah, that would not surprise me. |
| 18:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think they decide which nodes to convert, make them into entities, attach them all to one central controlling entity to make it easy to pilot, then remove the original nodes, drive it around, say "well, collision detection is an abomination right now but I'll fix it after I make the video", record the video, and then effectively give up on the project a few hours later 😄 |
| 18:53 |
Yad |
Warr1024: LOL Thanks for your insight on this topic. Now I can see that I'm not off-track to be wanting to learn entity attachment next. |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It has become easier, at least lately, and if you ignore shading inconsistencies, to make entities that look convincingly like nodes. |
| 18:54 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Yes I'm actually doing that for plant-growth in my experiments. |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oh, interesting ... entities can scale arbitrarily, you don't need different node registrations for each, so I could see some interesting potential there. |
| 18:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You do have to be careful though because entities impose significantly more computational and rendering costs than nodes, and if you don't have some kind of artificial limiting factor that prevents players from making arbitrarily many of something, that can become significant. |
| 18:55 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Yes at this point you could think of it as I'm basically making the top segment of a cactus extend slowly rather than popping into existance. |
| 18:55 |
muurkha |
presumably the reason for nodes is that you can have many more en... yeah that |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NodeCore uses entities to represent objects placed on the ground or in storage, and while its mitigations of the computational cost server-side are pretty effective, it still imposes significant rendering costs client-side, especially once you've got thousands built up in one place. |
| 18:56 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Then when the cube-shaped entity's mesh is in the same position as y+1 relative to where I spawned it in the top node of the "cactus", the entity does a node_swap and then self.object:remove() |
| 18:57 |
FavoritoHJS |
remember that the entity might be moved by something, so I'm not sure if that's the best solution |
| 18:57 |
muurkha |
I didn't know that about NodeCore objects on the ground; I thought they were nodes |
| 18:57 |
Yad |
FavoritoHJS: Might be moved? As in what? A collision transferring momentum into the entity? |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you want to have cactus growth come in short spurts, then using the entity to do an eased animation for cactus growth could work fine. If you want true linear growth, then the points where the cactus height would be an exact even node multiple would be short-lived, and that'd mean you'd have the entity persist throughout the cactus' growth cycle, which could be expensive. |
| 18:58 |
independent56 |
Do you want me to try anything else before i revert back to copy-pasting git diffs under issues? |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> NodeCore objects on ground are dual node/entity things. There's a node that stores the information for your item, but there's an ephemeral entity that's used to actually display the thing. |
| 18:58 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Yes the client-side load is what I'm trying to mitigate with having the entities replace themselves with nodes as often as possible. |
| 18:58 |
FavoritoHJS |
I was thinking more like mesecon pistons or nc hinges |
| 18:59 |
FavoritoHJS |
ooh, that's why lesha had phantom items a while back |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Entities should not automatically be moved by things happening in-world, i.e. if you set physical=false ... but they CAN still be moved by other mod code, e.g. if someone adds one of those "water flows push items" mods that's naively coded and doesn't actually make sure that it's an item entity, and then flows water over your cactus... |
| 18:59 |
independent56 |
I'm thinking of making a Minetest fork called "pure Minetest", where you only have two nodes and you have to combine them differently to make more nodes and nodes are also entities and objects at the same time |
| 19:00 |
Yad |
Warr1024: Yes regarding the continued cactus growth (a new entity gets created as soon as the old one is removed, in order to continue growth) but once the cactus reaches its mature height, no more entity is required. |
| 19:00 |
independent56 |
A bit like Lambda and non-lambda functions in a programming language |
| 19:00 |
FavoritoHJS |
world edit probably deleted the items metadata (thus triggering an item removal failsafe on nc's end) but not the entity, so phatom item |
| 19:00 |
Yad |
independent56: a Minetest fork? Do you mean a fork of Minetest Game? |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, keeping the ent display of items connected properly to the physical node is a pain, especially since you can't just loop over all of them every tick and still get acceptable performance. The existing system works okay usually but it can get tripped up on sufficient boundary conditions. |
| 19:00 |
ROllerozxa |
independent56: you could just make a game for that, no fork needed |
| 19:00 |
independent56 |
No, one where the LuaAPI is very basic and you only have two nodes |
| 19:01 |
independent56 |
A minimalist version of Minetest |
| 19:01 |
Yad |
independent56: Because minetest.register_node() takes place in the Lua API, not in Minetest. |
| 19:01 |
Yad |
independent56: What does "have" mean? |
| 19:01 |
independent56 |
that's the default game. |
| 19:01 |
independent56 |
Only a max of two nodes; mixing and their types are determined in the engine |
| 19:01 |
Yad |
independent56: Yeah so be careful to call it "Minetest Game" not "Minetest" which is the platform. |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "default" is a bug |
| 19:01 |
Yad |
xD |
| 19:01 |
independent56 |
something like 12112112221212212 |
| 19:02 |
Yad |
independent56: Minetest already has only two or three nodes...they're the ones you have set with an alias. |
| 19:02 |
independent56 |
`12212121211221212112` = factory |
| 19:02 |
independent56 |
I |
| 19:02 |
independent56 |
I'll have to plan it later |
| 19:03 |
Yad |
independent56: mapgen_stone mapgen_water_source and mapgen_river_water_source |
| 19:03 |
ROllerozxa |
those are just mapgen aliases, not real nodes |
| 19:03 |
ROllerozxa |
however the engine *does* have unknown, air and ignore which are all nodes defined by the engine |
| 19:03 |
Yad |
ROllerozxa: Yeah, you have to do minetest.register_node using the LuaAPI |
| 19:04 |
Yad |
ROllerozxa: we're explaining to independent56 that you don't need a fork of Minetest in order to have there be only two nodes registered, because there are already only three required by the platform. |
| 19:04 |
Yad |
I call Minetest a platform because Irrlicht is the engine. |
| 19:05 |
independent56 |
Yeah, but i mean the engine provides the nodes; `1` and `2`. It's up to the games to combine them |
| 19:06 |
Yad |
independent56: What do you mean by "provides"? |
| 19:06 |
independent56 |
Basically brainfuck but in Minetest |
| 19:06 |
independent56 |
Provides? The LuaAPI will be very simplified to make it as minimalist as possible to only give you the tools you really need, not fancy abstraction |
| 19:07 |
independent56 |
As such, you can't define a node, only the combination of them |
| 19:07 |
independent56 |
`minetest.combine(1111112222222222) = "stonebrick" |
| 19:07 |
independent56 |
Goal is to allow the exact same possibilites as current minetest just minimalist |
| 19:07 |
Yad |
independent56: I might need you to make a flowchat of that. xD |
| 19:07 |
Yad |
independent56: But I also feel like you're trying to express satire. :D |
| 19:09 |
FavoritoHJS |
oh, so something like a binary identifier for each node? |
| 19:10 |
independent56 |
Yeah kind of |
| 19:10 |
independent56 |
The point is to give you the bare minimumm to make mods so you think on a more basic level, like Assembly programming |
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| 19:13 |
independent56 |
Instead of Lua you have to write block logic in Brainfuck and the output is the return value |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you want to make a game where there are only 2 kinds of nodes, then just register your nodes, and then replace minetest.register_node so that more can't be added later. Good luck with that though, from a user acceptance perspecive. |
| 19:16 |
independent56 |
In fact: new idea: keep minetest engine the same but change the API to only accept a dialect of brainfuck known as "Minimalismtest Brainfuck" which has a few new operators |
| 19:16 |
independent56 |
Such as those for file writing and for function definitions |
| 19:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Better idea: just rewrite the entire engine in BF. Have fun with that 😄 |
| 19:18 |
independent56 |
Yeah but BF gives no GUI libraries or file-writing capabilities so is unsuitable for application making |
| 19:20 |
independent56 |
I'll make a dialect if i have to, but i've already made a compiler for a minimalist programming language i made which lets you cheat by importing Lisp functions. |
| 19:32 |
independent56 |
In theory, is any issue which is "open" up for grabs for me to "fix"? |
| 19:33 |
independent56 |
Even if they're tagged with "discussion" and "DO NOT IMPLEMENT WITHOUT WRITTEN WORD OF DEVELOPER"? |
| 19:34 |
Yad |
independent56: Well I mean you can't force maintainers to merge your branches in Git, so you can't really *hurt* the project, but you could end up wasting your own time. |
| 19:35 |
independent56 |
that's ok |
| 19:36 |
independent56 |
Not until i make so many contributions i become a core dev out of convinience for the team, but that probably won't happen anytime soon# |
| 19:39 |
independent56 |
"Ugh, 56independent's 2,000th commit today! Maybe it's time we just make him a core dev" or something |
| 19:40 |
ROllerozxa |
LOL, implying being coredev somehow gives you the right to push stuff to master without approval |
| 19:41 |
independent56 |
oh, it don't? |
| 19:42 |
independent56 |
You //have// to make a branch? |
| 19:43 |
ROllerozxa |
yeah, usually all changes need to go through a PR |
| 19:43 |
independent56 |
Fine. Due to my ADHD and Autism cocktail, i might end up making 20 commits per day for a few days before doing 0 per day for a few months |
| 19:43 |
ROllerozxa |
all PRs need two approvals from a coredev, if you're a coredev it's assumed you approve of yourself so another one is needed to approve it before it can be merged |
| 19:45 |
independent56 |
Ah yes |
| 19:47 |
* independent56 |
secretley considers a sockpuppet with a different writing style working with different types of commit to self-approve merge requests and reveal the largest social experiment of all time |
| 19:47 |
independent56 |
How do you know it's not too late muahahahaha |
| 19:50 |
independent56 |
I'm joking by the way lol |
| 19:53 |
ROllerozxa |
o.o |
| 19:54 |
independent56 |
But it's these types of security vulnrabilities we should work against; the weakness here is that the sockpuppet and independent56 use the same IP |
| 19:55 |
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| 20:05 |
independent56 |
Even if i used Tor, it would locate to the same continent so you can ban all of Europe from core devs and be safe /j |
| 20:07 |
independent56 |
Should i try unhardwiring things? |
| 20:07 |
independent56 |
Like look at things which are hardwired and make setting for them? |
| 20:08 |
independent56 |
https://dev.minetest.net/List_of_hardcoded_features |
| 20:09 |
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| 20:12 |
ROllerozxa |
most of those hardcoded features aren't exactly trivial to unhardcode but yeah I guess |
| 20:23 |
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| 20:28 |
Noisytoot |
independent56: Why would your exit node be in the same continent if you used Tor? That's not how the route selection works. |
| 20:28 |
independent56 |
Fine, same planet |
| 20:29 |
independent56 |
Ban everyone on Earth for maximumm security |
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| 23:14 |
independent56 |
Well, it's all my fault the pull request counter went from 74 to 75 |
| 23:14 |
independent56 |
It's probably not even that good of a commit TBH but you gotta start small |
| 23:17 |
independent56 |
I'm probably going to exhaust all possible issues and then i'll have to leave begginer friendly |
| 23:32 |
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