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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

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07:25 Izaya speaking of building, on debian stable, you need to use irrlichtmt 1.9.0mt4 to build 5.5.1
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15:51 natewrench I think Mojangs stance on NFTs was virtue signaling
15:55 rubenwardy 🙄
16:07 erle natewrench explain?
16:13 natewrench they didnt have to elaborate about banning nfts i mean its there in their terms & EULA
16:13 natewrench they got heat from the chat reporting so they did this
16:14 natewrench the same day 1.19.10 is released
16:15 erle come on, it's no surprise corporations lie to you
16:16 erle just paint the logo in rainbow colors and you are good :P
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16:16 erle (i wish i was joking)
16:16 natewrench yea to think we own the worlds we create is bogus
16:17 erle obviously, the end game is that disney owns it
16:18 natewrench wait disney doesnt own minecraft? does it?
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16:22 definitelya natewrench: Correct, Microsoft does.
16:23 natewrench through their subsidiary mojan
16:23 rubenwardy "all your world belong to us"
16:24 natewrench yea you cant access you world without our client
16:24 definitelya T_T
16:28 definitelya natewrench: Wait by "our client", do you mean the official Minecraft one?
16:28 natewrench yea
16:29 definitelya There is also MultiMC, but it's still subect to Microsoft shenanigans.
16:29 natewrench true
16:29 natewrench optifine
16:29 definitelya *subject
16:30 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> multimc is inching more and more into becoming proprietary
16:30 natewrench even if its under the apache license it relies on MC
16:30 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> or basically, a code oss - vs code situation
16:30 definitelya Ah, oh well I don't even have an account anymore.
16:32 definitelya I just play on Minetest, it's free software and has cake and cookies, too. lol
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16:36 luiz Hi. I was trying basic_signs mod and I have found a error with craft some sign it requires steel:sheet_metal. I already install a mod called Steel
16:36 luiz I have homedecor modpack too and signs_lib too
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18:29 WhiskeyPotato Hi everyone.  So im having an issue with my minetest based server where the server freezes and the log is filled with:
18:29 WhiskeyPotato 2022-07-23 13:35:11: ERROR[Server]: Server::ActiveObjectMgr::addActiveObjectRaw(): no free id available
18:30 erle WhiskeyPotato is a mod spawning lots of entities?
18:30 WhiskeyPotato But I have no idea how to identify what has so many objects to correct it
18:30 WhiskeyPotato Maybe?
18:30 erle post mods
18:30 WhiskeyPotato My server runs over 300 mods
18:30 WhiskeyPotato and is over 4 years old
18:30 erle are you getting several megabytes of log per second?
18:31 sfan5 60000 is a lot of active objects to have so you should notice simply by your fps dropping sharply once you enter the relevant area
18:31 WhiskeyPotato not quite that much but a lot
18:31 erle WhiskeyPotato so some mods are stupid and if they can't add something they try it again
18:31 WhiskeyPotato I could see that
18:32 erle sfan5 do they need to be active all at once in an area?
18:32 sfan5 what
18:33 WhiskeyPotato So im currently in the process of attempting to move from 0.4x to a multicraft base to be able to keep the server up and accessable to the playerbase it has while not having to fix ALL the 300+ mods at once
18:33 erle well, are the ids immediately recycled?
18:33 WhiskeyPotato If i could just figure out what is trying to make a new object that would help a lot
18:33 erle WhiskeyPotato there is probably no easy way to do it. but you can ask your-land.de for their testing strategy.
18:33 erle they have a shit ton of mods and very little crashes
18:35 erle WhiskeyPotato you could make a very small mod that hooks into entity creation and logs the parameters
18:35 erle and maybe which mod is trying to do this
18:35 erle like, a wrapper function that identifies the culprit
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18:36 WhiskeyPotato im not even sure where to start but i think that might be super helpful.  I'll try to unstupid myself for a bit and do that.
18:36 sfan5 if you have verbose logging enable just search for scriptapi_luaentity_add
18:36 erle that's probably a more useful suggestion than mine
18:37 sfan5 if that's infeasible then it's absolutely possible for a mod to go through all current objects and list them to you
18:37 WhiskeyPotato Dont think it's on verbose at the moment but i'll switch that over and see what we get.  of course its an intermittent problem....
18:37 WhiskeyPotato I would love to have a mod that does that. maybe i can figure out such.
18:38 WhiskeyPotato Thanks so much for the suggestions, gonna stew on that for a bit and see what i can come up with.
18:42 WhiskeyPotato sfan5, can you step me though how a mod could go through all current objects? I'm thinking it would be reading the global table right? so far my luck with reading those has been terrible but my LUA is poo.
18:44 erle don't worry, lua is a such a quality language that *everyone's* lua is poo
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19:01 sfan5 WhiskeyPotato: http://sprunge.us/0ScZdV?lua
19:04 WhiskeyPotato thank you so much
19:12 MTDiscord <luatic> erle: No, Lua isn't poo.
19:18 erle luatic [[triggered]] :P
19:19 MTDiscord <luatic> yes
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19:19 erle sfan5, btw you mentioned a while back that you would make a game. contentdb does not show a game from you. where is it? did you reconsider?
19:19 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5 made a game, he just didn't put it on CDB
19:20 MTDiscord <luatic> check their GH acc
19:20 sfan5 https://github.com/sfan5/minetest_classic
19:20 sfan5 putting it on CDB is planned™
19:20 MTDiscord <luatic> ninja'd
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19:21 erle thx
19:21 erle finally, oerkki will be back
19:22 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> does it feature :dungeonmaster: too?
19:22 sfan5 all mobs are included
19:23 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> awesome
19:23 sfan5 even ones you can only spawn by cheating yourself the right item (firefly)
19:25 erle x2048 the thing does not compile, what am i missing? https://mister-muffin.de/p/PV32.txt
19:27 erle x2048 my mistake, i seem to have bungled it. new error: main.c:5:10: fatal error: GLUT/glut.h: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
19:27 erle i do have libglu1-mesa-dev
19:28 sfan5 glu and glut are not the same libraries
19:28 erle yeah but “apt-file search GLUT/glut.h“ does not give results
19:28 erle neither does “apt-cache search glut.h“
19:28 erle maybe ubuntu has it, but debian does not?
19:29 MTDiscord <x2048> OK, just remove GLUT/
19:29 MTDiscord <x2048> freeglut3 installs glut.h into /usr/include/GL
19:29 MTDiscord <x2048> or replace GLUT/ with GL/
19:29 MTDiscord <x2048> should also work
19:29 erle hey yeah it works
19:29 erle lots of warnings during compiling, but it works
19:30 MTDiscord <x2048> yes, that's what I saw too.
19:30 MTDiscord <x2048> I guess you want to tweak it?
19:31 erle #include <math.h> makes some warning go away
19:32 MTDiscord <x2048> string.h too
19:32 erle x2048 there is two things: first i want to figure out if i can have shadows using shaders, apparently i can. then i want to figure out some rendering bugs i have been having. do you see a moire pattern on front of the cubes when the light source is behind the cubes?
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19:34 erle x2048 this looks wrong https://mister-muffin.de/p/UBot.png
19:34 MTDiscord <x2048> moire pattern is there when a face transitions from light to shadow
19:34 erle so it's an implementation mistake?
19:35 erle next questions: what qualitatively distinguishes this solution from minetest shadows? i.e. why does this work and minetest shader-based shadows do not?
19:35 erle on my GPU
19:35 erle or how can i find out more about it?
19:36 erle i wonder, could it be that the reason is not shadows at all, but some other shader?
19:36 erle or something else entirely?
19:36 erle the amount of geometry?
19:38 MTDiscord <x2048> Here's how it looks for me: https://imgur.com/j7DP5dI
19:40 erle direct link to image https://i.imgur.com/j7DP5dI.png
19:41 erle (imgur.com makes my XSS detector go haywire)
19:45 MTDiscord <x2048> What I spotted is the use of DEPTH_COMPONENT  texture in this example, and we use R32 texture for the shadow map. Your hardware may support the former and not the latter.
19:45 MTDiscord <x2048> This is for example the case with GLES2 hardware
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19:46 erle x2048 what would be the visual impact of just using the lower-spec one?
19:48 erle the hardware is an intel 945GM, which supports OpenGL 1.4 with shaders and OpenGL ES 2.0, GLSL ES 1.0.16
19:49 MTDiscord <x2048> Self-shadowing/moire. This is clearly visible if shadow map textures are switched to 16-bit
19:50 MTDiscord <x2048> (in minetest settings)
19:50 erle what is the cause of the moire?
19:52 erle is the depth test not accurate enough?
19:53 erle x2048 also, i thought that culling the front face (like done in the sm example) would prevent self shadowing
19:56 erle x2048 in FragmentShader.c there is a hack to reduce moire pattern. it adds 0.0005, but if i remove a zero, then it works.
19:59 erle it looks gnarly anyway
20:01 MTDiscord <x2048> Here is how it look in Minetest with 16bit SM: https://mister-muffin.de/p/c3UJ.png
20:02 MTDiscord <x2048> We do front-face culling with nodes, but not with entities, because it kills proper self-shadowing
20:02 MTDiscord <x2048> Like shadows inside the plane's cabin
20:02 erle x2048 looks good enough to me, but the plane has tripes
20:02 erle strips
20:03 erle stripes damn
20:04 MTDiscord <x2048> also notice the sand nodes behind the plane having weird dark spots at the corners
20:05 MTDiscord <x2048> As for the offsets, here's our code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/client/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl#L236-L257
20:05 MTDiscord <x2048> it goes well beyond simple z-offset and combines normal offset with Z offset and some heuristic for plant-like nodes without normals
20:06 MTDiscord <x2048> because we also have that
20:06 MTDiscord <x2048> and our shadow map is non-uniform, because that gives better detail.
20:11 MTDiscord <x2048> As for 24 bit depth component, it may be good enough for very-low - low, see 16-bit with very low: https://mister-muffin.de/p/wSFc.png
20:13 MTDiscord <x2048> The problem is GLES2 does not allow to read the depth buffer, i.e. I cannot bind DEPTH_COMPONENT[24] to a texture, so I'll have to use a 8888 texture and combine the components, which does not work with incremental map updates we are doing today.
20:14 erle what beyond the moire is the reason for the depth buffer to need that amount of bits?
20:15 erle i mean, i have no idea of this, i just thought maybe you can blur and mask stuff and get away with it
20:18 MTDiscord <x2048> with low depth precision entire world will be covered with these artifacts, bleeding light and shadows, moire etc.
20:18 MTDiscord <x2048> You can blur away everything 😄
20:20 MTDiscord <x2048> can't, I mean
20:28 erle i just tested my intuitions with the shadow mapping example
20:28 erle and the world indeed becomes a gray blob if i overdo it
20:29 erle at lower resolutions the edges of objects bleed shadows out into the void
20:29 MinetestBot [git] TurkeyMcMac -> minetest/minetest: Let core.get_mod_storage be called multiple times (#12572) d631f21 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d631f21024bac626babe2e8eac4505210d368ffa (2022-07-23T20:27:07Z)
20:29 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Bump IrrlichtMt 71f6a5f https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/71f6a5f44e0cb0e4ef57e942987ec8e76139452c (2022-07-23T20:27:19Z)
20:29 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Centralize IrrlichtMt version used for builds 175e132 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/175e13257653b07df247422cebd3a6da5f29dc51 (2022-07-23T20:27:19Z)
20:29 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Check minimum Irrlicht version before build 7e78c01 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7e78c0171ea2fec3594656a6abe44695b4252ba1 (2022-07-23T20:27:19Z)
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21:40 Pexin 0
21:40 muurkha -1
21:43 erle one, two, three, pi, two pi, apple pie, apple strudel, turd sandwich
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22:13 muurkha ew
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22:45 natewrench hey is minetest as a whole thinking about listing themselves on steam/gog like openttd
22:47 wsor someone would need to cough up the $100 at a minimum
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