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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

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06:08 BuckarooBanzai does anyone know how to strip color-codes and translations from strings in the engine, for example those here: "(T@__builtin)Current day is F4E.E" (i hope the string shows up properly)
06:09 BuckarooBanzai i think the control chars were stripped :/ just in case: https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/#recipe=To_Hexdump(16,false,false,false)&input=GyhUQF9fYnVpbHRpbilDdXJyZW50IGRheSBpcyAbRjQbRS4bRQ
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10:07 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> When I try to compile latest master (51d0ac) of minetest irrlicht on a debian testing machine, it says "CMake Error at source/Irrlicht/CCMakeLists.txt:103 (message): XInput not found. Is that a new dependency?
10:08 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> yeah, xinput2/libxi
10:10 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> Ah ... that's why when I installed xinput the error remained. apt can find neither xinput2 nor libxi though
10:11 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> whoops
10:12 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> Ah, got it. I found the commit, it checks for libxi-dev. When I install THAT one it let's me continue
10:13 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> not nice
10:13 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> lol
10:13 erle Bastrabun, create a PR
10:13 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> May I suggest to add the library to the dependencies in the doc?
10:14 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> A PR? I doubt I'll be able to fix a missing dependency by myself, I know next to nothing about irrlicht ... also, someone arduously added the dependency, they certainly don't need a noob twiddling with it
10:15 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> erle is probably talking about adding it to the list of dependency packages that should be installed
10:16 erle yes
10:16 MTDiscord <Bastrabun> bonks self ok, that sounds a bit less scary. I'll at least open an issue, if I manage to come to terms with github again, I'll add a PR
10:18 erle ROllerozxa any idea how/why this works? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=28350&amp;p=412499#p412499
10:27 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> I would assume deflate compression has an easier time compressing uncompressed TGA images rather than PNG images that are already deflate compressed, but I don't know why that would lead in a noticeable size difference
10:31 erle well, even if i tell zip to not compress them, it does not seem to favor png
10:31 erle which is weird
10:31 erle but it seems that optipng is the wrong thing to do for small textures
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11:47 sfan5 BuckarooBanzai: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/abc9efeeb8cccb3e23c055414941fed4a9871b9a/worldedit_commands/init.lua#L125-L151
11:47 sfan5 simple and easy if you only need stripping
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11:58 sfan5 Bastrabun: the dependency list in the docs will be updated soon, at the least before release
11:59 erle should be done in the PR that adds a dependency IMO
12:07 sfan5 how do I modify the README in minetest/minetest from a commit in minetest/irrlicht?
12:09 sfan5 (trick question)
12:09 BuckarooBanzai thank you sfan5 👍
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12:11 erle sfan5, submodules or subtrees maybe, both things that minetest development is deathly allergic to
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12:48 sfan5 do submodules allow you to deviate from the fixed commit hash and run a newer tree locally?
12:56 rubenwardy yes
12:56 rubenwardy when you change the HEAD of a submodule, it shows up in git status and you can then commit it to update the fixed commit hash. But you can also just not commit it
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13:13 sfan5 I guess it wouldn't be that bad then
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13:20 natewrench Is there a mod for minetest that smooths out the cart rides because it jerks your camera around when doing l going diagonally
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19:23 erle rubenwardy i have learned how to do shaders with openGL 1.4 … can i use this knowledge to improve minetest somehow? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12569#issuecomment-1191848393
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19:23 erle ah you already answered
19:26 sfan5 not sure who brought up shaders
19:26 sfan5 the issue is a missing color format in your gpu
19:27 rubenwardy I was thrown by the OpenGL 1
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19:30 sfan5 huh I missed that
19:31 erle sfan5 the missing color format is a red herring. if i change the color format, i still get shadows and the rendering is still messed up.
19:31 erle obviously, i just changed it to some random supported format
19:31 erle to figure out if that works
19:31 rubenwardy is it possible that the hardware only supports fixed pipeline, and shaders are being software emulated?
19:31 sfan5 "if I change random things to make the error go away Minetest is messed up"
19:32 sfan5 critical blocker
19:32 erle sfan5 no, it's exactly as messed up as before
19:32 erle look, it's a shadow, it's gray-ish, a little color format roulette does not make it look meaningfully different
19:32 sfan5 without you telling which format you picked I can make no assumptions on whether you broke it or not
19:33 erle the shadow renders in any case. just in one case i get an error message.
19:33 sfan5 that was not sufficiently clear
19:34 sfan5 but it does not matter in any way that your prehistoric GPU cannot render shadows correctly despite apparently offering (fatally broken) shader support to applications
19:34 sfan5 this is exactly why I don't bother replying to issues of this kind
19:34 erle for some reason other applications manage to render shadows, except for stormbaancoreur, against which i filed a bug
19:35 rubenwardy I think the end result is the same in any case: your hardware is too old for us to justify spending time debugging  [Won't fix] [Obscure]
19:35 erle rubenwardy, how would i know if shaders are software emulated
19:35 erle well, i am debugging it obviously
19:35 sfan5 its cool that other applications use stencil shadows which work even on ancient hardware
19:35 sfan5 Minetest doesn't and never will
19:36 erle because it looks shit i assume?
19:36 erle rubenwardy, how would i know if the shaders are some kind of software emulation? temperature does not rise noticeably even if i go fullscreen.
19:37 rubenwardy who knows
19:37 rubenwardy I don't
19:38 sfan5 erle: here I copy-pasted a reddit comment: "Modern hardware and rendering techniques are better suited to shadow mapping, so most stencil shadowing information is out of date and based on legacy OpenGL. Stencil shadowing was an invention of the fixed-function era, and generally won't perform very well when used with shader-driven rendering - with
19:38 sfan5 the possible exception of Doom 3's esoteric shadowing technique, but newer versions of id's engines abandoned that design anyways."
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19:38 erle i see
19:58 erle rubenwardy why do the zipgrep results expire?
20:01 rubenwardy They're stored in redis as celery worker results
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20:04 erle am i correct that for shadows i would have to render a scene from the sun's POV but culling front faces and then doing a depth test and then draw from tha cameras POV and project the depth test texture on the scene somehow?
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21:59 hatman Hi guys , I am wondering if there is a way to scan infront of a node say by 3 nodes ? I know of minetest.get_objects_inside_radius but that is a scan all around the node rather than just infront of it for example. Does anyone have any ideas as to a way I might be ble to achieve this please :)
22:01 MTDiscord <MisterE> Yes. minetest.get_node(pos) add 3 to whichever direction (x or z) you want to scan in
22:02 hatman Thanks I hadnt thought of that I will look into it :)
22:03 hatman I also just realised I could look at the code for the technic quarry as it does similar to what Iam looking for:0
22:03 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> That sounds like a job for raycasting
22:03 hatman im looking to detect entitys in a 3x3 area infront of a machine
22:05 hatman i guess manually going through each of the 9 positions and checking the +y :) I( was just trying to think how to achieve the for loop to iterate through them :)
22:12 MTDiscord <MisterE> Oh, my method only works for nodes, yeah, what benrob said
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22:22 hatman Interesting thanks Benrob0329 :) I havent used it yet but just found the commit adding it wich tells me all I need to know for now to atleast try and get something working :) Thanks again :)
22:23 hatman Thanks for your reply to MisterE
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22:45 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> hatman: https://gitlab.com/benrob0329/ikea/-/blob/master/mods/ikea_tools/init.lua#L44
22:45 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> along with: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1554
22:46 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> along with: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5605
22:46 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> Raycast is an alias to minetest.raycast
22:47 erle rubenwardy I think i have figured it out: GLSL was introduced as an extension to openGL 1.4 and later the functions were slightly renamed for OpenGL 2.0, but the functionality is essentially the same.
22:52 erle rubenwardy also, once a shader exceeds a specific instruction count, i get extremely bad software rendering and minetest does exceed this instruction count1
22:52 erle so its basically the same issue as the mali 400 thing
22:54 erle and maybe the solution should not be to make it impossible to enable shaders, but to make it impossible to enable shaders that exceed the shader model that the GPU supports
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22:57 erle basically, the important thing is not “do you have openGL (ES) 2.0?” or “do you have GLSL?”, as you can have both and it can still not work
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23:18 erle in conclusion … all of you should be forced to use 10 year old underpowered netbooks, maybe people would write more performant software then ^^
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23:36 natewrench Hah I should frame this and put this in my room https://imgur.com/a/fhSZCPT
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