Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-19

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 paradust joined #minetest
00:00 Pexin joined #minetest
00:00 Pexin joined #minetest
00:00 Boingo joined #minetest
00:00 mannerism joined #minetest
00:00 MinetestBot joined #minetest
00:01 MinetestBot joined #minetest
00:02 Calinou joined #minetest
00:02 fossdev2 joined #minetest
00:03 fluxionary_ joined #minetest
00:05 frostsnow joined #minetest
00:05 ghoti joined #minetest
00:05 valhalla joined #minetest
00:05 search_social joined #minetest
00:11 MTDiscord joined #minetest
00:30 fling joined #minetest
00:59 natewrench joined #minetest
00:59 ball joined #minetest
01:07 wallabra joined #minetest
01:23 Lesha_Vel joined #minetest
01:37 Verticen joined #minetest
01:41 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
03:25 fling joined #minetest
03:34 sometalgoo joined #minetest
03:47 sometalgoo1 joined #minetest
04:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest
04:22 erle joined #minetest
04:48 sometalgoo joined #minetest
05:09 Yad_ joined #minetest
05:21 olliy joined #minetest
05:52 calcul0n_ joined #minetest
05:58 Lesha_Vel_ joined #minetest
06:01 radekm25 joined #minetest
06:19 TomTom joined #minetest
06:55 debiankaios joined #minetest
07:14 toluene joined #minetest
07:22 radekm25 joined #minetest
07:26 peterz joined #minetest
07:39 Talkless joined #minetest
08:05 cranezhou joined #minetest
08:15 syl joined #minetest
08:24 lemonzest joined #minetest
08:25 lemonzest joined #minetest
08:33 toluene joined #minetest
08:43 MTDiscord <Bla> mh registered at the forum but no mail so far. would be nice if someone could resend the mail. ty
08:44 radekm25 joined #minetest
08:48 MinetestBot [git] x2048 -> minetest/minetest: Offset cuboid origin after scaling the cuboid. (#12558) b270a46 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b270a46e533eaec289a65440f63eb227f0872286 (2022-07-19T08:48:00Z)
08:49 Alnotz joined #minetest
08:53 Alnotz joined #minetest
09:34 sfan5 @Bla I can also manually activate your account
09:35 MTDiscord <Bla> that would be great too 🙂
09:35 sfan5 account name?
09:35 MTDiscord <Bla> Bla
09:36 syl joined #minetest
09:36 syl joined #minetest
09:37 sfan5 done
09:37 MTDiscord <Bla> ty
09:50 Izaya Is there a mod that formats the F5 debug info more pleasantly? I'd love something between WAILA (from Minecraft) and a map mod, where it has a nicely formatted "viewed block info" and the coordinates.
09:54 erle funny result https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=28350&amp;p=412431#p412431
09:54 erle TL;DR optimizing your assets can result in a situation where the zip file delivering your mod is bigger than if you had not done it
09:55 erle which is relevant when filesize is below 4kb
09:55 erle because then regardless of how small the file is, it takes up 4kb of disk space on contemporary filesystems once uncompressed
09:56 erle this seems hilarious and it seems to me as if optipng is entirely the wrong route, unless you are applying it to a tilesheet
10:10 lakeotp joined #minetest
10:16 sfan5 another misinformed post from erle, sad.
10:16 erle sfan5 tell please
10:17 erle are there filesystems with another blocksize than 4kb that i do not know?
10:17 erle anyways, i think the solution is to use more tilesheets
10:17 sfan5 "optimizing your assets can make your ZIP file bigger" I assume this is just mistyped since in your post you say the opposite
10:18 radekm25 joined #minetest
10:18 sfan5 "[...] a situation where the zip file encoder is not able to exploit similarities between different files [...]" files in ZIPs are all compressed independently so this doesn't apply
10:18 erle oh that's good to know
10:18 erle well, optimizing the assets individually. then why is zip(optimized files) bigger than zip(raw files)?
10:19 sfan5 if that is the case then your zipping utility messed up
10:19 erle sfan5 you seem to be right. putting two identical files into a zip file bloats its size.
10:20 sfan5 or the nested compression happened to work better on the unoptimized assets (can happen, obviously)
10:20 erle this thing is so easy, you can try it out yourself. take all the >200 or so PNGs from minetest_game default/textures and zip them. then do it again with all of them converted to uncompressed (this is important) TGA. or any other uncompressed format, probably (i have not tested that).
10:21 erle the effect stops working as soon as your input is compressed in any way. for example, applying RLE and then zipping it makes it bigger.
10:22 sfan5 doing such an underspecified experiment is a waste of time
10:22 sfan5 for example what does "zipping" mean? zip -0? zip -9? with 7zip? with winrar? some more intelligent settings?
10:23 erle i actually left it vague on purpose to encourage people to try it themselves, but i see that was a bad idea
10:23 sfan5 "4kb of disk space on contemporary filesystems" lastly, regardless of blocksize not all filesystems suffer from the one-file-one-block limitation so this certainly isn't good general advice
10:25 erle which leads me to a tangent. since the code for reading directly from zips has not been removed from irrlichtmt, why does minetest unpack downloaded mods at all? loading time optimization?
10:25 erle i mean quake and so on do not
10:25 erle (pk3 is just zip basically)
10:26 erle i can imagine it being slower or taking more RAM to do it on the fly
10:26 erle but i wonder if it can be worth it if you have many small files. git does something like that after all.
10:31 erle sfan5 which filesystems should i look into to educate myself about the one-file-one-block thing?
10:35 erle if you are referring to ext4 inode inline data, that is *very* limited (file smaller than 60 bytes i think?)
10:36 sfan5 https://superuser.com/questions/1352833/#answer-1643841
10:37 erle ah thanks, the word is “block suballocation”
10:37 specing_ joined #minetest
10:37 erle if you have not considered doing so, i bet it would be helpful if you posted to the thread
10:38 sfan5 maybe later, feel free to link the irc conversation there
10:38 erle ok!
10:40 erle btrfs is a strange beast. i especially find it funny that it is impossible to estimate the amount of free space at the file layer. yes, i am *that* user who will free up just enough disk space to make things work in a pinch.
11:25 definitelya joined #minetest
11:40 cranezhou joined #minetest
11:57 wallabra_ joined #minetest
12:03 appguru joined #minetest
12:04 radekm25 joined #minetest
12:08 bodiccea joined #minetest
12:15 orwell96 joined #minetest
12:30 Alnotz joined #minetest
12:32 Taoki joined #minetest
12:44 Alnotz joined #minetest
12:47 radekm25 joined #minetest
12:48 z812 joined #minetest
13:32 Fixer joined #minetest
13:43 appguru joined #minetest
13:43 radekm25 joined #minetest
13:50 appguru1 joined #minetest
14:14 wallabra joined #minetest
14:16 Alnotz joined #minetest
14:38 Talkless joined #minetest
14:47 Alnotz joined #minetest
14:55 fling joined #minetest
15:12 muurkha 09:55 < erle> because then regardless of how small the file is, it takes up 4kb of disk space on contemporary
15:12 muurkha filesystems once uncompressed
15:12 muurkha I do not think this is true of any mainstream Linux filesystem
15:13 muurkha 10:23 < erle> i actually left it vague on purpose to encourage people to try it themselves, but i see that was
15:13 muurkha a bad idea
15:14 muurkha this is good when you are offering exercises to a class but not when you are trying to make your results reproducible so that your statements about them can be objectively true or false :)
15:15 muurkha hmm, interesteing, apparently on new enough disks ext4fs *does* use 4k blocks.  thanks sfan5!
15:16 muurkha (according to the superuser thread)
15:22 proller joined #minetest
15:40 proller joined #minetest
15:54 radekm25 joined #minetest
16:53 jwmhjwmh joined #minetest
16:54 jwmhjwmh MisterE[m]: What mapgen did you use for that terrain?
16:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> Reverb
16:55 Fixer joined #minetest
16:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> https://github.com/Jordach/minetest/tree/mg_reverb
17:12 gff joined #minetest
17:34 ___nick___ joined #minetest
18:13 ___nick___ joined #minetest
18:16 ___nick___ joined #minetest
18:27 MinetestBot [git] x2048 -> minetest/minetest: Restore flags texture to fix interlaced stereo mode (#12560) 70c54ab https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/70c54abc2a09d2299f6a7de327d4aecbbad625a5 (2022-07-19T18:26:57Z)
18:50 Verticen joined #minetest
18:59 sys4 joined #minetest
19:36 fling joined #minetest
19:41 radekm25 joined #minetest
19:44 olliy joined #minetest
19:48 omn0mn0m joined #minetest
20:00 polo joined #minetest
20:09 Polo joined #minetest
20:52 radekm25 joined #minetest
20:55 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
21:11 fling joined #minetest
21:14 peterz joined #minetest
21:22 peterz joined #minetest
21:23 fluxionary_ is there a correct way to register something that is both a node and a tool and have it function as both? (e.g. the pitchfork from Sokomine's cottages mod)
21:23 fluxionary_ if i register it as a node, wear doesn't work right
21:24 rubenwardy you can register a node _and_ a tool, and have the tool place the node and the node drop the tool
21:24 rubenwardy this is how MTG doors work
21:24 rubenwardy for some reason. Really should be a craftitem rather than tool
21:25 rubenwardy oh I didn't remember correctly. Maybe I was thinking of keys or something
21:25 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L255
21:25 fluxionary_ that's how it works currently, but can i have them share a name?
21:25 rubenwardy no
21:33 ronoaldo joined #minetest
21:39 citrons joined #minetest
22:02 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
22:34 panwolfram joined #minetest
22:37 specing_ joined #minetest
22:53 fluxionary_ i guess giving up on wear creates the fewest problems
23:09 natewrench joined #minetest
23:35 MTDiscord <MisterE> "problems" <- there arent many problems with placing a node with a tool, if you program it correctly.
23:35 Lesha_Vel joined #minetest
23:42 natewrench joined #minetest
23:59 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext