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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-01

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Time Nick Message
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08:11 independent56 What's more charming? A clean railway line or a railway line covered in grass?
08:11 independent56 http://www.rail.co.uk/images/2827/original/pic-1.-a-general-view-of-the-overgrown-yards.-paul-bickerdykex.jpg
08:11 independent56 A bit like this
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12:21 independent56 Can you choose different sounds to play whether you are inside a train or outside?
12:28 sfan5 @luatic linter idea for you to write: goes through source code and checks that nodenames that are references actually exist
12:28 sfan5 referenced*
12:32 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5: I feel like there will be false positives for formspecs, entities and practically everything else using the modname:formname convention, but it'd probably still be useful
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13:13 hn_ quick asf question - someone knows if its possible to run 2 mt servers (read - open 2 maps) on one laptop? means - im sure it can handle hardware - im asking only about software. and also - i use linux and apt version is outdated so the only version i can use is flatpak... (read - slao i need to use one client). btw - could such thing have 2 different configs ?
13:15 MTDiscord <luatic> yes, you can run multiple servers on the same machine; you might want to supply different conf files through the --conf option
13:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I've seen several MT's run at the same time from a single machine before.
13:15 MTDiscord <MisterE> Yes. Open 2 terminal windows, and start the minetest server on each. Specify a different conf
13:16 MTDiscord <luatic> what about debug.txt?
13:16 MTDiscord <MisterE> Or just open minetest twice if in singleplayer
13:16 sfan5 you can specify a different log file too
13:16 sfan5 and a different world folder obv
13:16 MTDiscord <MisterE> Or install minetest run-in-place twice
13:16 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I would recommend docker for running multiple things on the same machine isolated from one another.  It makes it much easier to add/remove roles like running MT servers.
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13:20 hn_ i see i'll need to again use wine :/
13:20 sfan5 wat
13:20 hn_ cuz i have 2 maps...
13:21 hn_ and i see that such config is just "messing up too much"
13:21 MTDiscord <luatic> what no!?
13:21 MTDiscord <luatic> there is zero need to use wine here
13:22 MTDiscord <luatic> docker is probably reasonable, but wine?
13:22 hn_ cuz one from flatpak secod wine
13:22 MTDiscord <luatic> no
13:22 MTDiscord <luatic> just npo
13:22 MTDiscord <luatic> heck, you could even run two run-in-place installs at two different place if you're so overly concerned
13:22 hn_ some long time ago i already downloaded but almost forgor
13:24 MTDiscord <luatic> minetest --logfile x/debug.txt --conf x/mt.conf --worldname world_x --server
13:24 MTDiscord <luatic> --config*
13:24 hn_ but i run minetest from app launcher ?
13:24 hn_ not terminal
13:25 hn_ and even if i'd run it from cli i couldnt pass args due to flatpak ?
13:25 hn_ i even have config not in .minetest but ~/.var/net.minetest.minetest/.minetest ...
13:26 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> you launch your minetest server from the app launcher?
13:26 hn_ ye
13:26 hn_ and as server i just have option to share, not any cli ....
13:26 MTDiscord <luatic> I don't see why flatpak won't allow you to pass args!?
13:27 hn_ CoNtAiNeR...
13:27 MTDiscord <luatic> ???
13:27 hn_ i can only run main binary
13:27 MTDiscord <luatic> then your permissions are off
13:27 hn_ but share works. one time i got some strangers on "server"
13:28 MTDiscord <luatic> why don't you install Minetest properly to be able to host servers properly?
13:28 hn_ apt version outdated asf. i already think even about migratiion to other Os
13:32 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> rofl
13:33 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> can't you just... launch the flatpak minetest from the terminal?
13:33 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> like I know flatpak fucking sucks but it has to at least be usable in that regard?
13:34 hn_ it isnt lool
13:35 hn_ as long as flapak knows its gui app it allows only gui. if it'd know its cli app, then it could...
13:35 definitelya hn_: FYI, there are prebuilt Minetest binaries on GitHub. Make sure you also copy the right IrrlichtMt version in minetest/lib , if you want to use them.
13:35 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> he's not on windows
13:35 hn_ no. i aleady gave up and i stick with wine
13:35 definitelya Ik ik
13:36 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> ...wine...seriously...
13:36 definitelya Oh...
13:36 hn_ yeah :/
13:36 hn_ dumb linu
13:36 hn_ x
13:36 definitelya It's literally as easy as downloading and making.
13:36 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> switch to a distro that doesn't have outdated repositories
13:37 definitelya That too ^
13:37 hn_ anyways - end this i have enough of yelling at flatpak
13:37 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> then you won't have this goose chase of having to figure out dumb ways to get up to date software
13:37 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> because it's just... up to date
13:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Using wine to run a windows build on Linux because you're already running the Linux build for something else ... this might actually be the pinnacle of cursed configuration... 🤩
13:39 definitelya xD shots fired!
13:39 hn_ stop chat right now !!!!
13:40 definitelya :|
13:40 hn_ yes.
13:40 definitelya :0
13:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'm not firing shots, I'm just admiring the efficiency with which someone fired shots at themself.
13:40 definitelya ;)
13:40 hn_ also a question - someone know a decent 3d pixelart editor other than shitty blender ?
13:40 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> not shitty blender
13:41 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> (idk what shitty blender would be, blender 1.0?)
13:41 hn_ all blenders... i want only pixelart 3d, not everything.
13:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I concur: when it comes to blender, stick to the non-shitty variety, exclusively if possible.
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13:43 hn_ i just said - other thing than ANY blender ...
13:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Best editor I know of that's specifically for 3D pixel art is ...
13:43 hn_ typically for 3d PIXELART
13:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> ...probably Minetest, actually.
13:44 hn_ can it export to meshes usable in mobs ?
13:44 hn_ hah.
13:44 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> meshport 😏
13:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are mods for that, yeah
13:45 hn_ but then it doesnt export resized for mobs... its in same size as original... so it leaves...
13:45 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> couldn't you import it into blender and scale it on export? I think there's a setting for that
13:46 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> anyways jokes aside there is actually magicavoxel. haven't tested it with minetest however so you'll have to check it for yourself https://ephtracy.github.io/
13:46 hn_ everything i know how to use is to open blender, open file in blender and close blender. thank you :/ and if i open i even doesnt understand it, what about learning...
13:46 hn_ oh, thx. didnt knew
13:48 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> it can't directly make animated models nor export to b3d but for static obj meshes it should be perfectly alright
13:48 hn_ im not gonna animated. lmao what ?!
13:49 hn_ just a smol npc's of few guys and animals... all aimations i'd make using bones...
13:49 hn_ if i even would...
13:56 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> wtf, I keep forgetting magicavoxel is not open source... just free and hosted on github pages
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13:57 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> anyways I would usually assume that mobs would have some animations, so I just wanted to say that you probably won't be able to animate them directly in magicavoxel
13:58 hn_ moment.
13:59 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> bruh moment? or just a moment
13:59 hn_ just a moment. i search in flathub
14:01 hn_ flatpak search 3d : https://termbin.com/aqjg (only this. not even blender ;-; )
14:05 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> ok, so a flatpak moment
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14:07 hn_ yeah :/ the only place in my OS which have updated aps :/
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14:25 sfan5 Krock: mystery solved, a simple but not obvious mistake caused there to be 125 times too few ores
14:35 hn_ (this moment when you think you chose mid measure but you cose postool and a big checkered space grows up nearby you... lool) anyways, again this question - someone knows a fully floss tool for making 3d PIXELART (blender leaves cuz its a-i-o...) ?
14:35 MTDiscord <luatic> hn_: Yes. Minetest.
14:36 hn_ RESIZED AUTOMATICALLY FOR MOBS AND NPCS ?!
14:36 hn_ =D
14:37 MTDiscord <luatic> You do realize visual_size exists? And even if it didn't exist, resizing generated models is trivial.
14:37 hn_ containing colors instead of textures ?
14:37 hn_ luatic - could you please ?
14:37 MTDiscord <luatic> hn_: Minetest doesn't support colors.
14:37 hn_ i have something on ios but already someone else uses it...
14:38 hn_ luatic : so how 3d colored mobs? how skins ?
14:38 hn_ (i am this dumb)
14:38 MTDiscord <luatic> My workflow is usually: 1. Build thing; 2. Turn into Wavefront .obj using wesh; 3. Open in Blender, merge faces, possibly resize/move, generate UV maps, re-export; 4. Profit
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> hn_: Using textures
14:39 hn_ ?
14:39 hn_ like these from skin-edit mod ?
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> Skins are literally textures
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> That's one example for textures, yes
14:40 hn_ e- this one ? https://content.minetest.net/packages/GreenXenith/skinmaker/
14:40 hn_ is this this ?
14:40 hn_ what about triangles then ?
14:40 hn_ it i ever would use blender
14:42 MTDiscord <luatic> be more specific
14:42 hn_ like ball mod i heard about ...
14:42 hn_ its not 3d cubes but a bunch of triangles... how its colored then ?
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> by mapping 3d triangles to 2d triangles on the texture?
14:43 hn_ yes but how its colored then ?
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> google how UV mapping works
14:43 hn_ i dont use google, duh :/
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> I don't care which search engine you use
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> First make an effort to find out yourself, these are fundamentals of 3d gamedev
14:44 hn_ nvm. i'll stick with maps only...
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> Then - if you've made a genuine effort and are somehow stuck - ask your questions
14:46 hn_ no. i did no effort ad im not enough for asking questions here. im gonna use premade mods... (hope you rember me while i was close to write an "os" in-game... )
14:46 hn_ now nothing like that
14:47 MTDiscord <luatic> hn_: No norris, you were never close to writing an operating system.
14:48 hn_ yeah but had such idea some long time ago and will never forget this dumb idea lool
14:48 MTDiscord <luatic> heh, right
14:48 hn_ :/
14:48 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> :\
14:49 hn_ =/
14:49 MTDiscord <luatic> :|
14:49 definitelya hn_: O7
14:49 hn_ ?
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16:28 ecraven hello ;) does minetest have a "real world" server, that takes actual elevation (and maybe even biome) data and sends it to a client?
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17:28 BuckarooBanzai ecraven: do you mean an ingame map that reflects the real world?
17:28 ecraven yes
17:29 BuckarooBanzai give me a sec, there was something...
17:29 independent56 I have a subtable of name 1, but the parser complains that i have not closed the table holding the subtable: https://pastebin.com/E4yGanme
17:29 ecraven as in, take real elevation (and biome) data, [do some magic to create blocks], send it to the player, who can then have fun ;)
17:30 MTDiscord <BuckarooBanzai> i think @Lemente mentioned a few french projects that use real elevation data
17:30 MTDiscord <BuckarooBanzai> (sorry for the ping, i can't find the website :P)
17:32 independent56 Earth by lengtbiese
17:32 BuckarooBanzai ah, there it is, different author though: https://github.com/Gael-de-Sailly/geo-mapgen#readme
17:33 Pexin i know there was such a project. worldgen that takes as input a geo heightmap. i dont think it used biomes
17:33 Pexin yeah that author
17:33 BuckarooBanzai there's also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/lausic/a_random_bit_of_winterthur_recreated_in_voxels/
17:33 independent56 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19564
17:33 MTDiscord <Lemente> you summoned me o_o
17:33 independent56 It's smaller then the real world
17:34 BuckarooBanzai Lemente: sorry, your name came to mind, when ecraven mentioned real world terrain :)
17:34 MTDiscord <Lemente> Minetest has a 60 000³ map so you cannot fit the entire world in it or at a very small resolution
17:35 MTDiscord <Lemente> no worry, thank you for thinking about me :) I'll try to give the infos I ahve
17:35 Pexin you can fit dragon warrior 1 in it though  :D
17:36 MTDiscord <Lemente> There is an online (French) services that allow to download a Minetest map made from geo datas but outisde of France/Wallonia the terrain resolution is extremely low (like 30 meters)
17:39 MTDiscord <Lemente> here is the reddit post I made about it, with a quick translation https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/lb23qk/recreate_any_city_or_landscape_in_minetest_or/
17:40 Pexin i had half written a utility that procedurally upscales an NES style tilemap, naively generates a heightmap from it, and exports to a MT map database, but it was the wrong approach (didnt understand runtime mapgen)
17:50 definitelya ecraven: LIDAR data is a bit of a pain to procure, but if a mod accepts OpenStreetMaps extracts, too: https://download.openstreetmap.fr/extracts/
17:51 definitelya I never managed to test it on Minetest though.
17:53 independent56 Also, forget my subtable question as i got an answer in ##programming
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17:58 ecraven thanks!
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21:50 erle does anyone have a quick fix for the touchpad not working while a key is pressed on linux?
21:51 erle in particular on debian on a thinkpad
21:52 erle i know it is kinda rare to play with touchpad, but i do it and friends do it too
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21:54 independent56 Does this station give anyone else really obressive, almost "I need to get out of here" brutalist vibes? https://i.imgur.com/nveZfpV.png
21:55 independent56 erle, this also happens on Ubuntu. I'm using a laptop and the touchpad don't ever work when i move. Unless i press shift, begin moving, and release shift.
21:55 erle independent56 no. but which mod generates the train map?
21:55 erle or is it a static image?
21:55 erle independent56 yeah it is some software setting i wish to find
22:01 independent56 erle, Inkscape makes the map, instructed by me as i update the map manually. I use the billboard mod  to put it in
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22:02 independent56 I take a lot of inspiration from  LF, who does a lot of the same things i do, like operate a large rail network or use the same mods
22:02 independent56 Because it is the server i spent the longest time on before they got tired of me and decided to kick me out one last time
22:03 independent56 That's the thing. I tend to act impulsively sometimes so i end up annoying people when i don't mean to
22:03 independent56 But i'm getting better at managing it.
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22:05 erle independent56 if you can make lua code to make a train network style map, i could integrate it in xmaps if you want me to. or i could use it to figure out what kind of API one would need to integrate it.
22:09 independent56 Ah, cool
22:09 independent56 I just like to make my own maps
22:09 independent56 but, there is one project you might like,which makes to-scale size maps
22:09 independent56 http://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:modules:netmapper&amp;do=
22:10 independent56 Here is the map of my server: 56i.duckdns.org/trainmap.svg
22:10 independent56 Best enjoyed with inkscape and zooming in to see the lines
22:11 independent56 The thing that's just so brutalist about my station is the dead space in-between tracks which no human should ever go in. Trains provide the life and soul of a station, but are absent. The massive pillars are unnaturally tall, in a mocking of human porpotions. These all come together to create at once the effect that humans are not meant to use such a station
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22:38 Pexin erle: you know the keyboard/touchpad thing is a synaptics input feature right?
22:39 Pexin I ran into the issue too, disabled the feature, found it horrible when I'm trying to actually type and the touchpad interferes. re-enabled the feature, and decided the best solution is not play MT with a touchpad   >_>
22:41 independent56 The best solution is to adjust
22:41 independent56 That's what i idd
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23:31 independent56 Does anyone like the idea of "server critics", critics who visit servers and write about their strengths and weaknesses?
23:31 independent56 I feel like becoming one
23:34 independent56 "Linuxforks offers a highly sophisticated transport system, featuring the largest Advtrains network in Minetest. However, it suffers extreme issues in moderationship, which is often cruel and almost rudely direct. They are extremely easy to annoy and are generally like walking on eggshells"
23:34 independent56 Something like that
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23:36 independent56 For my own, i may write "56i-mtserver offers a rapidly growing transport network which does not connect places. The server has a real lack of buildings and sizeable cities, isntead opting for high-quality lines to nowhere, incentivizing growth which simply does not come.  The trains always end up stuck and are unreliable at best.

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