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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-05-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:01 AliasStillTaken Since use_texture_alpha = true is deprecated anyways, we could do that in a search and replace
02:01 Sokomine sorry, yes. better place here. you're right. still, i hope the core devs are intrested. after all such hanging of the client is problematic
02:02 Pexin AliasStillTaken Sokomine fluxionary: were you previously aware of 11696
02:02 fluxionary alias: across thousands of files, with dozens of differences in whitespace standards?
02:03 fluxionary no, but i personally think that while the glass may be an issue, it's mostly due to entities and nodebox/mesh drawtypes
02:03 Sokomine use_texture_alpha scrolls me almost to death when joining (after having changed my client to show warnings)
02:04 AliasStillTaken fluxionary: at least the  use_texture_alpha is unique? Looks like we "only" have 200 instances over 53 files in the code base :D
02:04 fluxionary alias: still, why not just hack the fix into one file for the moment?
02:05 Sokomine pexin: i've been aware that there might be a problem and that it has been discussed - but my knowledge of graphics is too limited to contribute
02:05 AliasStillTaken That might be abetter option. I'm searching through the register node lua already.
02:05 fluxionary ^fix^alternation
02:06 AliasStillTaken Can't find a use_texture_alpha in that register_node thingy?
02:07 fluxionary no, you override the definition there
02:07 fluxionary you just add `nodedef.use_texture_alpha = opaque`
02:08 fluxionary well, with quotes
02:09 AliasStillTaken Somewhere in function core.register_node(name, nodedef) I guess?
02:10 fluxionary it's currently 2 lines long. make that the 1st or 2nd line
02:10 Sokomine huge amounts of shops have existed on other servers before...can't imagine that it's only that
02:10 AliasStillTaken I only want to make sure I foudn the right place :D
02:11 fluxionary Sokomine: oh, trust me, the shops are a huge part of it, it's part of why i wrote my own smartshop fork
02:12 Sokomine they're certainly not innocent. just can't imagine that they're the main reason
02:12 fluxionary just changing the drawtype of the entities from "wielditem" to "sprite" can halve their contribution to lowered FPS
02:13 fluxionary (and in the in-development version, creating only a single entity for all 4 items when possible
02:13 AliasStillTaken testserver is up and by miracle I found the right place. The glass now is pretty opaque
02:14 fluxionary Sokomine: it depends on whether we're talking about consistent FPS drops, or the single 1-2 second lag spike if you load into the center of the shopping district in haven
02:15 fluxionary alias: rejoining, i'm quite curious to see what things look like =D
02:15 AliasStillTaken Not SO much different, but ... see for yourself :P
02:20 AliasStillTaken Testserver is on the same address, but port 30001
02:21 paradust (119,1,71) seems to be something big too. Some kind of fireplace particle effect?
02:21 paradust *something expensive
02:22 AliasStillTaken There are a couple of armor stands in there and a fire
02:32 paradust this may be more representative: https://minetest.dustlabs.io/blocktimes2.txt
02:33 paradust in the first sample, I stayed in the center. So of course the glass building was visible most of the time. but transparencies don't render at high distance
02:33 paradust Second sample, I ran all over the place
02:36 Sokomine which block is the one with the huge spike?
02:37 Sokomine alias changed all(?) glass to opaque. it didn't help that much with fps, and the lag spikes are still there - even after a clearallobjects
02:37 fluxionary i dunno, the first few ones all contained signs_lib signs with lots of multi-colored text
02:39 paradust Sokomine: What's your render distance?
02:39 fluxionary oh there's a 2nd blocktimes, let me look @ that
02:39 fluxionary oh yikes those numbers are way bigger O_O
02:40 paradust because I spent more time in game
02:40 paradust milliseconds total
02:41 paradust but something expensive is happening at (119, 1, 71). I wonder if it has to do with the smoke effect nodes
02:41 AliasStillTaken Looks like either clear_meta or clearobjects causes the testserver now to act up when we load some mapblock
02:41 Sokomine paradust: 20. the absolute minimum. and even that creates lag spikes in spawn city and low fps. on most other places of the map 60-80 are no problem. i still have that celeron g1610 with its igp - so bad gpu, not fast cpu, slow connection
02:42 AliasStillTaken I put the error message in https://gitea.your-land.de/your-land/bugtracker/issues/2005
02:43 AliasStillTaken Odd - that hints at a filter injector, which are not allowed in the city
02:43 Sokomine ah yes. wouldn't see that as an issue. a tube that lost its data - no wonder it's confused. not a real problem
02:43 Sokomine side-effect of our test. can be ignored for now
02:44 paradust Sokomine: hm. is your FPS high looking straight up and straight down?
02:44 fluxionary Alias: you should probably re-initialize the map for the test server, very few mods can handle their metadata being taken out from under them
02:45 Sokomine paradust: usually better - but not well
02:46 fluxionary Alias: we need a "//grep_blocks" command
02:46 Sokomine the lag spikes seemed gone with the metadata gone
02:46 fluxionary i didn't get around to testing the lag spikes, but the FPS drop still seemed to be present
02:47 fluxionary turning everything opaque didn't seem to change much
02:48 AliasStillTaken fluxionary: What would a "grep blocks" command do?
02:48 AliasStillTaken give us positions of nearby blocks of certain nodename?
02:48 fluxionary alias: `//grep_blocks mesecons.*` -> list of name/position pairs
02:48 Sokomine paradust: looking straight down, with more or less just a few waving farming plants below me: 28 fps at view range 20. ah. now it went up to 40 fps. still - that is very little, especially for that view range
02:49 fluxionary (this would clearly need a limit so as not to flood you w/ chat messages, which would be the 2nd parameter)
02:49 AliasStillTaken Or maybe only work in an area
02:50 AliasStillTaken worldedit has a //count command, but this doesn't reveal the pos
02:50 fluxionary Alias: exactly, i'm thinking about //count
02:50 fluxionary searching a defined area is also plausible, but WE regions are more general
02:51 AliasStillTaken on YL there's a /area2we command :P
02:52 Sokomine paradust: looking up is in a similar range (about 43 fps). and that's a clear sky, with (apart from hud and such) only part of the sun showing
02:52 paradust is there any way to test disabling rotating entities ?
02:52 paradust also the smoke animation
02:54 AliasStillTaken we could temporarily remove the mods that bring them
02:54 Sokomine if it's in one particular place we might just remove it there on the test server
02:54 Sokomine just removing the node is probably easier for testing?
02:55 paradust Sokomine: Could you build your own minetest with this patch to show block times? There might be something specifically causing bad behavior with your video card, and that would show up more clearly from your machine
02:55 Sokomine can you point me to the patch?
02:57 paradust https://minetest.dustlabs.io/blocktimes.patch
02:57 fluxionary (sorry, had to AFK for a bit, and still AFK for a while)
02:57 fluxionary alias: WE boundaries are not more "general", but instead more ad-hoc. i'll make a note to make a command that works w/ either approach
02:58 AliasStillTaken +1
02:58 AliasStillTaken testserver is up again, I disabled pipeworks
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04:20 ball So I made a world and I've been exploring it, building "lighthouses" on promontories and striped paths between them.
04:20 ball I fell down a couple of times and my health isn't great.  Is there anything to eat?
04:20 ball ...do I lose all my work when I die?
04:25 luk3yx If you're just playing the default game then there are apples that grow on some trees
04:26 ball Thanks, I'm on an island with trees now but I think they're spruce.  I'll keep looking though.
04:27 luk3yx And you don't lose progress when you die, anything you had in your inventory gets put into bones at your death position (which are kind-of like chests but you can only take items out of them).
04:31 ball Oh great, thanks!
04:31 Pexin bbbbbones!!
04:32 ball I see there's a "server mode".  I'll have to let my children run riot on this world, too.
04:32 Pexin are wild blueberry bushes not in the stock game?
04:33 luk3yx Oh right they are, I forgot about those
04:34 Pexin 2 years ago I started playing on a public server. made a whole bunch of blueberry pies. I still have almost 3 stacks remaining
04:35 Pexin ..not sure if the server has slowed hunger possibly
04:35 Pexin also sometimes when my satiation is really low, I just put everything into backpacks and jump off a cliff to respawn
05:12 ball Thanks
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06:36 Pexin FatalError: you in here? (can't see discordians)  what flavor of linux did you try, and how long ago?
06:37 MTDiscord <FatalError> i tried kubuntu and I didn't know how to use it, and I don't intend to
06:37 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> k-ku-kubuntu???
06:37 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> >ubuntu
06:37 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> i use arch
06:37 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> yeah I can see why
06:37 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> @FatalError freaking cringe
06:37 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> don’t come near me
06:37 MTDiscord <FatalError> why'd you ping me you fuck head
06:37 MTDiscord <FatalError> im literally typing right here
06:38 MTDiscord <FatalError> either way
06:38 Pexin I use xubuntu. lighterweight and simpler
06:38 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> AAAAAA
06:38 Pexin kubuntu is.. kinda bloated
06:38 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> why everyone use ubunto
06:38 Pexin because easy
06:38 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> xubuntu and kubuntu is just the same shit with a different GUI
06:39 MTDiscord <LinoTastic> easy doesn’t matter
06:39 Pexin kubuntu relies on a hella set of its own libs
06:39 MTDiscord <FatalError> I don't see the reason in going through the hastle of installing a new OS, just so I get to figure out how to use it for absolutely no benefit
06:39 MTDiscord <FatalError> that's why I stick with windows
06:39 MTDiscord <FatalError> It works for me, and I'm happy
06:39 MTDiscord <FatalError> you stick with your linux
06:39 MTDiscord <FatalError> ill stick with my windows.
06:39 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> FatalError: but what if you want to do engine development?
06:40 MTDiscord <FatalError> I feel like having linux definitely isnt needed to compile
06:40 Pexin FatalError: the reason it was brought up is because linux variants tend to be already set up from the ground up for development
06:40 MTDiscord <FatalError> but im not there
06:40 MTDiscord <FatalError> I dont think ill ever be there.
06:40 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> virtual machines exist
06:41 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> or even WsL
06:41 Pexin dev on windows is messy   X(
06:41 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> just get some sort of Linux environment, and set up minetest for compilation
06:42 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> and then you could begin working at applying the old PR onto the latest source code, and then you can commit that into a fork and open a new PR
06:42 Pexin dev on windows is "standardized" I guess if you're using .NET
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13:11 MTDiscord <MisterE> I just installed manjaro linux a few days ago. LOVE it... for the simple reason it doesnt have the performace problems all my other os s do XD
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13:21 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> based
13:21 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> welcome to the world of up to date and functioning software
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13:54 sfan5 also welcome to the world where software is sometimes broken because it is up-to-date
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15:02 comrad and then you realize that the linux distros are just a combination of the ever same software
15:10 MisterE[m] well, I had to install the LTS version of blender to get b3d support
15:10 MisterE[m] . Manjaro had both
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16:23 settl3r[m] Guys, i witnessed a really strange effect - i suffered damage while going down a normal stairway, i'm neither hungry, nor are there any mobs which could hurt me (all is well lit and there are no holes into caves etc.), and i searched for any nearby uranium but couldn't find any.. i now wonder, could it be a rare bug?
16:23 rubenwardy suffication mod?
16:23 settl3r[m] the damage only happens occasionally
16:23 settl3r[m] no, there is no suffocation either
16:23 settl3r[m] no water nearby either
16:24 settl3r[m] how far away does uranium cause damage to a player?
16:24 settl3r[m] and is there any other ore which could induce damage over a further distance?
16:24 settl3r[m] rockweed?
16:24 settl3r[m] but i'm not that far down either
16:25 settl3r[m] maybe around ~ -100m below the sea level
16:25 settl3r[m] i mean, it is not a real threat, as i have tons of food with me to heal myself, but i wonder what could cause this..
16:27 settl3r[m] (the server i'm on uses technic, more_ores, cave_realms mod among others)
16:27 settl3r[m] (and gloop-ores)
16:28 settl3r[m] * (and gloop-ores, and more_mobs, more_npc, animals)
16:29 settl3r[m] are there mods, where the player could get damaged, if he eats not varied enough food?
16:30 settl3r[m] are there any mobs which could damage a player through stone?
16:30 settl3r[m] (but i couldn't hear any monster while going down, either)
16:31 settl3r[m] * down, either, so it would have to be a very sneaky monster :/ )
16:32 settl3r[m] are there invisible mobs which can't be heard either, which can attack the player even in a ok lit area?
16:32 MTDiscord <SX> uranium ore
16:32 settl3r[m] yeah, i already searched for that, i dug out the stone near the stairway
16:32 settl3r[m] but uranium has only a short damage-distance, right?
16:33 settl3r[m] about 1-1.5 meters maximum for uranium ore (?)
16:33 MTDiscord <SX> yeah, to make it safe you have to put in your pocket or backpack :p
16:33 settl3r[m] (pure uranium blocks have a further damage-distance)
16:33 settl3r[m] * further damage-distance, but they don't occur naturally[?])
16:34 settl3r[m] could pure uranium-blocks hurt the player through multiple layers of stone?
16:34 settl3r[m] i mean these green blocks
16:34 settl3r[m] but i wonder how these could be generated..
16:34 MTDiscord <SX> yes, stone wont help much and wont really reduce radiation signifcantly
16:35 settl3r[m] how far away does pure uranium (0.7% fissile, so natural state), hurt players?
16:35 MTDiscord <SX> and only uranium ore is added by technic worldgen
16:36 settl3r[m] no radon gas?
16:36 settl3r[m] hm, ok so i have to dig out the whole area around the staircase..
16:36 MTDiscord <SX> uranium ore I think some about 3m maybe, should be fairly easy to test...
16:37 settl3r[m] some? are there differently strong ores of uranium?
16:37 MTDiscord <SX> well when careful mtg default pickaxe can just reach ore before it starts damaging player
16:38 MTDiscord <SX> and no different types, just single ore (again assuming just technic)
16:38 settl3r[m] (luckily, this server is not in ultra-hardcore)
16:39 settl3r[m] * in ultra-hardcore, else i would have to carry tons of kalite with me, to periodically heal myself)
16:40 settl3r[m] (..but it is in ('normal') hardcore mode, so dying is permanent)
16:40 settl3r[m] and also luckily that uranium ore is relatively mild in its damage
16:41 settl3r[m] * its damage (1 hp/hit)
16:41 settl3r[m] and hits happen not too fast
16:41 settl3r[m] returns to mining
16:51 * settl3r[m] uploaded an image: (531KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/SOGvKfgISbDUTrRKTgwQdRpN/screenshot_20220530_124918.png >
16:51 settl3r[m] Heureka!
16:52 settl3r[m] (i didn't know that it could hurt so far away)
16:55 settl3r[m] my hunch is, that it has a maximum radiation radius of 2.5m
16:55 settl3r[m] (from the center of the U-238 block)
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16:56 settl3r[m] ..because it happened very rarely
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16:56 settl3r[m] or you have right, and it rarely hits at 3m
16:57 settl3r[m] i guess the rapidity of hits diminish with range
16:57 settl3r[m] s/range/distance/
16:57 settl3r[m] * i guess the rapidity(rapidness?) of hits diminish with distance
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17:05 * settl3r[m] uploaded an image: (504KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ehqSmIBRtfkXzURDhLUFvABA/screenshot_20220530_130344.png >
17:05 settl3r[m] wow i discovered a second deposit
17:06 MTDiscord <SX> radiation (damage) accumulates and also has lingering effect, distance (and any shielding) affects accumulation and damage directly
17:07 definitelya Yay spicy stone- ouchie!
17:08 settl3r[m] MTDiscord: wow, sounds rather complex
17:08 settl3r[m] * rather complex, for a ingame effect
17:08 settl3r[m] but cool!
17:09 settl3r[m] ty for the infos
17:11 settl3r[m] i cant find a better smiley ^^
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17:15 * settl3r[m] uploaded an image: (538KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/tRcwtmcbTHiyCLcDVkmByYcN/screenshot_20220530_131355.png >
17:15 settl3r[m] ..and a third.
17:16 settl3r[m] i heard, that uranium can be made renewable, with a reactor, is that true?
17:18 definitelya settl3r[m]: I think it involves one or more reactor meltdowns, have at it. :)
17:18 definitelya I never tried it though.
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17:32 calcul0n the idea is flowing corium turns into chernobylite which can be centrifuged to make uranium
17:33 calcul0n i wouldn't recommend that on an hardcore server :)
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17:48 settl3r[m] lol ok
17:48 settl3r[m] but.. with a hazmat suit on?
17:49 calcul0n it doesn't help much with corium
17:49 settl3r[m] ouch corium, which behaves like alien blood?
17:50 calcul0n yeah, you get the idea :)
17:50 settl3r[m] (the first movie/book was the best, btw ^^)
17:51 settl3r[m] (i wonder if they got inspired by the "reacting blood" of the movie *The thing*, in antarctican base)
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20:06 sfan5 just set some stuff on fire in nodecore and I like how it burns
20:20 sfan5 i guess fuzz testing isn't that useful but at least fun https://0x0.st/oBpd.png
20:24 MTDiscord <luatic> lol
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20:48 runs hi
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21:10 Oblomov sfan5: wth
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21:28 troika yup
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22:50 MTDiscord <FatalError> why is runs here
22:50 MTDiscord <FatalError> fucking ew
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23:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> He wasn't bothering you, y'know.  😑
23:50 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Is that an army of bots playing NodeCore and trashing the terrain?
23:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> What are those opaque blue tiles?

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