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Nick |
Message |
| 00:23 |
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| 00:47 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Oof, never considered people doing SSCSM bitcoin mining. I pray they don't, you'd have to mine IN lua vm, and ship the data back over the network... I don't even think mining algorithms can run on just doubles? |
| 01:31 |
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Chpy0 |
Wait theyre actually mining bitcoin in minetest? xD |
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MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> no |
| 06:10 |
erlehmann |
<exe_virus> Oof, never considered people doing SSCSM bitcoin mining. |
| 06:10 |
erlehmann |
exe_virus i TOLD you that arbitrary turing complete client side programs are A BAD IDEA |
| 06:10 |
erlehmann |
exe_virus why do you even need an example for this? |
| 06:11 |
erlehmann |
i mean, client side modding is cool if ppl install it themselves, like browser extensions |
| 06:11 |
erlehmann |
i.e. if it does not get pushed on them and can not be required to take part |
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| 17:03 |
macaw |
In that vein - how does it currently work? When I connect to a server, do I get prompts to accept a download of a mod or does it install it without asking? |
| 17:04 |
macaw |
Context: I have never visited a multiplayer server in minetest. |
| 17:06 |
cheapie |
macaw: Most mods in MT are only present on the server, the client doesn't need to be modded for them to work. |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> SSCSM doesn't exist yet |
| 17:07 |
cheapie |
It is possible to install client mods too, but that's very rarely done and they generally don't do a whole lot either. |
| 17:13 |
macaw |
cheapie: Oh wow. I wonder how that's done. Do clients end up running server-provided lua? Anyway, that's cool. :) |
| 17:13 |
cheapie |
They do not - for lack of a better term, the MT client is fairly "dumb" and just shows whatever the server tells it to. Virtually all of the processing related to the world itself is done on the server side. |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:43 |
macaw |
Wow! That's great. Now I'm wondering now what the performance is like, but I'd rather try it one day instead of asking a million questions. Thanks cheapie for the insights. :) |
| 17:44 |
cheapie |
With a fast enough server and a low-latency connection, performance can be pretty good. When either of those isn't the case... it starts going downhill pretty fast :P |
| 17:49 |
macaw |
Heh, I kind of expected that, but too bad I'd guessed right. I'd love to hear you guys and gals discovered some magic technique to make the experience seamless anyway. |
| 17:50 |
macaw |
From what I know, client-side predictions and lerping around can smooth stuff out a bit, but there's only so much you can smooth out... |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Well, there are a couple clientside predictions in the engine. Unfortunately those are pretty hardcoded and don't work well in all cases. |
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| 20:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: I have come to the conclusion that PNG decoders unfortunately disagree on how the ARGB8 representation of a PNG should look... Over the < 200 test images of PngSuite, there are 41 (!) mismatches between ImageIO (Java's builtin) and Pillow (the de-facto standard Python imaging library)... |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> just use whatever chromium uses as your reference |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> that's what the rest of the world relies on |
| 20:58 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> As for erlehmann: Yes you can always do turing complete crap, I still say we would make SSCSM's optional with prompts to users, allow them to view the code before running, etc. etc. |
| 20:58 |
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| 20:59 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> We already let people download mods or games from online, so a server sending them to you is only slightly different |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> In this case, the difference would be that you, as a user, can ask the server to send you the lua files, BUT not allow them to execute before you have a chance to review them (say on next login). This would result in the same system we have now: downloader beware. Just as we do with all software |
| 21:02 |
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| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> @Exe, Virus: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/blink.git/+/refs/heads/main/Source/platform/image-decoders/png/PNGImageDecoder.cpp ? |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Yep looks like the reference to me |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
> just use whatever chromium uses as your reference |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
LOL |
| 21:11 |
sfan5 |
if anything libpng is the reference |
| 21:12 |
sfan5 |
...which is exactly what chromium uses |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> AFAIK libpng does just the reading though, I also need the depth rescaling part (from 16 bits to 8, that's where the expectations are still unclear). |
| 21:23 |
sfan5 |
libpng can also do that |
| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Honest, chromium runs a lot of everyday software. Something like 50+% due to electron and other uses. People use two image types religiously on the internet, jpeg and PNG, so it makes sense that whatever it uses, users expect to also use. You could also check what gimp uses, probably libpng. I wonder if there are still optimizations to be made in libpng, like for performance kinds of things. Like I bet a 0.1% improvement would |
| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
save like 10 MW of energy after a year or something stupid. |
| 21:56 |
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MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Irrlicht maybe can do depth rescaling? |
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