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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-09-10

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01:35 MTDiscord <MisterE> how might I call minetest.node_punch(pos, node, puncher, pointed_thing)? I want to simulate a player punching a node. Specifically, I have:  p_name : the player who I will artificially make punch the node sign_pos: the pos of the node that I want the player to artificially punch
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04:11 erlehmann <katp32> hiii, it's me, again; I am unable to reliably get more than ~20fps in minetest. this is not a low end system. ??
04:11 erlehmann katp32 with which commit?
04:11 erlehmann katp32 i have a low end system and get >20 fps lol
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10:02 MTDiscord <luatic> katp32: weirdly enough, there are some reports of MT getting slower on higher-end systems
10:15 erlehmann luatic this could be bisected
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11:39 fkbm Hello, everybody! :) When declaring or rather registering a new node, is there a way I can tell minetest to keep the textures rotate in the worldspace rather than the node space when using `paramtype2 = "facedir"`?
11:48 erlehmann Wuzzy, regarding https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10810 and cobwebs, where in the code of mcl2 or minetest is the fake_liquid group handled?
11:48 erlehmann like i wonder how it is done now
11:49 Wuzzy doc_items
11:49 sfan5 fkbm: sorry for the stupid question but does that mean you don't want the textures to rotate at all? why use facedir then?
11:49 Wuzzy fake_liquid is just a group for informational purposes its not supposed to "do" anything
11:49 erlehmann Wuzzy how am i slower in a cobweb then?
11:49 Wuzzy because its a liquid
11:50 Wuzzy technically
11:50 Wuzzy the fake_liquid group is for nodes that are technically liquids but are not liquids in a gameplay sense
11:50 erlehmann so i don't drown in them and can not swim up or down
11:50 erlehmann well no rising
11:50 erlehmann but down ok
11:50 Wuzzy yes this is a bit hacky
11:51 Wuzzy up has been disabled with disable_jump group
11:51 erlehmann nice
11:51 Wuzzy down can't be disabled with group (yet)
11:51 erlehmann i appreciate that level of hackery
11:51 Wuzzy =)
11:51 Wuzzy with the PR this hackery can be safely removed
11:52 Wuzzy there also probably wont be a need for the fake_liquid group anymore, but i'll probably keep supporting it for historic reasons
11:52 Wuzzy cobwebs were the main reason why i started the pr to begin with
11:53 Wuzzy there is still ONE annoyance left to deal with (needs new PR)
11:53 Wuzzy if you're in a move_resistance node with your head only, you're NOT slowed
11:53 Wuzzy e.g. it only checks your feet not your entire body
11:54 Wuzzy i consider this wrong behavior even for "traditional" liquids
11:54 Wuzzy agree?
11:56 erlehmann Wuzzy, the hackery will not be removed any time soon i guess, mineclone2 wants to support 2 latest minor releases of minetest and mineclonia and mineclone5 will do the same.
11:57 erlehmann Wuzzy i agree, if your head is in a cobweb you should be slow
11:57 Wuzzy i think this should laso be case for normal liquids too
11:57 erlehmann i mean you do drown too then, do you?
11:57 Wuzzy no, drwning is different
11:58 Wuzzy drowning was always completely separate from liquid
11:58 erlehmann logically i mean
11:58 erlehmann if your head is in a node, you suffocate or drown. so logically, other stuff should apply too!
11:59 Wuzzy nom drowning is head-only
11:59 Wuzzy no*
11:59 erlehmann ofc
11:59 erlehmann otherwise standing in water would be a danger lol
11:59 erlehmann but you can't just take the node above it because the player might not be as tall
11:59 Wuzzy yes
12:00 Wuzzy probably i could re-use the damage_per_second code for that
12:00 erlehmann for example, mcl2 has a swimming animation and there was crouching at some point
12:00 erlehmann so where the head is … that's not an easy question to answer ig
12:00 erlehmann maybe the head is a bone
12:00 erlehmann in the player model
12:00 erlehmann it has to be right?
12:00 erlehmann also sitting exists in many mods
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12:04 Wuzzy erlehmann: it seems the eye position is used for the node that is checked for drowning
12:06 Wuzzy yep, its definitely the eye_height
12:10 fkbm sfan5: So I want the textures to stay fixed but the nodebox to rotate :D My usecase is just using out of bounds nodeboxes. I got intrigued by openblox and I made a little mod that adds 2 by 1, 3 by 5... sized parts.
12:10 fkbm But I'd like the texture "shadows" to remain the same direction after facing the direction the player is.
12:13 sfan5 ah, nodebox rotations
12:14 sfan5 this is tricky, the only way I can think of right now is to register a different node for each rotation and add the necessary code to make it look seamless to the user
12:16 fkbm Yeah, I guess I'll take that route, the mod now would only have taken 20 lines of code, but I guess it'd pay to make the more complicated code; on the subject I just noticed that I could make the parts "overlap" eachother partially, so yeah...
12:16 erlehmann Wuzzy, i tested your liqiuid PR with mineclonia (5.5 server & client) and found no behavioural changes for existing fluids (lava, nether lava, water, river water, cobweb). i will proceed to try more stuff with devtest.
12:20 erlehmann Wuzzy, i will test more, but “Give yourself all those liquid test nodes in DevTest, and also the "move-resisting nodes" and play around with them. Check if everything makes sense.” is really unspecific. i fear i might miss something, so please add the exact node names if it makes sense.
12:20 erlehmann so i can /give myself those
12:21 Wuzzy place a Chest of Everything
12:21 Wuzzy Look for Move-resistant nodes (thats their name)
12:22 Wuzzy also try No-swim Liquid Source Node
12:22 Wuzzy if you don't have the Chest of Everything, do "/stuff" to get it
12:25 erlehmann thanks, i'd really appreciate a checklist though, but i will try. to see at what level of detail i usually work, look at https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/135
12:25 erlehmann yes many people think it is over the top
12:25 erlehmann but i recently tried not doing it and promptly forgot something
12:25 erlehmann > Prelaration
12:25 erlehmann LOL
12:26 erlehmann Wuzzy, i will see if i find anything amiss!
12:27 Wuzzy almost forgot, there's also Climbable Move-resistant Node (4)
12:28 erlehmann see … ;D
12:28 erlehmann devtest is really funny
12:28 erlehmann Wuzzy, i enjoyed reading about you attaching nodes in a circular way
12:29 fkbm What are you two talking about? Looks interesting.
12:31 erlehmann fkbm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10736
12:32 erlehmann sfan5 was annoyed by me telling offtopic tales in #minetest-dev so i am doing this here bc it's pretty much on-topic for me to nag ppl about not specific enough tests
12:32 erlehmann but as i told Wuzzy, i will test more
12:32 erlehmann trying to break it, hoping i fail (i.e. it would be considered legit)
12:33 fkbm I see... nice! :D Checking...
12:33 fkbm Hmm, seeing the minetest git gave me an idea :)
12:34 erlehmann what is it though
12:34 fkbm How do I write custom shaders and will there be a way to pass them as mod content to minetest?
12:35 erlehmann fkbm what do you want to do with the shader though?
12:35 sfan5 no such functionality yet but has been requested and discussed
12:35 fkbm I know this is asking the engine to be more dynamic and probably less secure (I have no idea what you can break with GLSL) but it sure would be awesome.
12:36 fkbm I'd like to make custom shaders as "texture packs"; I had the idea of using parallax mapping to make the blocks in openblox look like lego blox, but still hold nodeboxes :D
12:37 fkbm (be created only with simple nodeboxes)
12:39 erlehmann fkbm sending arbitrary shaders has already been tried in web browsers: https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2019-5771/ “An incorrect JIT of GLSL shaders in SwiftShader in Google Chrome prior to 72.0.3626.81 allowed a remote attacker to execute arbitrary code via a crafted HTML page.”
12:41 erlehmann fkbm read up on it here: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/10/heap-feng-shader-exploiting-swiftshader.html
12:42 erlehmann TL;DR: depends on whoever does whatever with the shader, there is probably no general exploit
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12:42 erlehmann the chrome thing was in some fallback path if the GPU crashed 4 times
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12:49 fkbm That's nice to know! It should be made easier though to integrate as a dev without having to rebuild minetest.  One other place I played with GLSL is in LÖVE2D where you can ship shaders with the source code, but yeah, you ship everything yourself, you don't let other users install mods.
12:49 erlehmann fkbm you know john carmack, famous from doom & quake? this is his opinion https://nitter.snopyta.org/ID_AA_Carmack/status/395927588108918785
12:49 erlehmann >  Putting anything that gets benchmarked in a position of security responsibility is very, very dangerous.
12:51 fkbm Got the point.  What can I say, it'd have been nice, but I guess until everything in the shaders can get sandboxed/limited I guess I'll have to wait :D
12:52 erlehmann fkbm this paper shows how to exploit mobile devices using shaders, apparently it is more universal than i thought! https://web.archive.org/web/20210415181354if_/https://www.vusec.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/glitch.pdf
12:53 erlehmann fkbm as i understand it, GLSL is complex enough that no amount of testing on sandboxing is guaranteed to get it right.
12:53 erlehmann on → or
12:54 fkbm I see :( That's sad... Time for a new language...
12:54 fkbm (jk)
12:55 rubenwardy ( actual link https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/395927588108918785 )
12:55 erlehmann fkbm i suggest you try to read the paper to understand the issues
12:56 erlehmann rubenwardy i used nitter because twitter requires javascript and is dog slow on some devices
12:59 Wuzzy erlehmann: fyi i have updated the 1st post
13:00 erlehmann Wuzzy, thx
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13:05 erlehmann Wuzzy, why does liquid_spread not make sense for non-liquid nodes? what if i want to have … some container leaking, rendered on the floor?
13:05 erlehmann or a weird plant growing from the ceiling
13:05 erlehmann i guess i am thinking in too extreme ways
13:05 erlehmann that do make little sense
13:05 Wuzzy but those things are already possible
13:05 erlehmann ok
13:05 Wuzzy the container would be a liquid source
13:06 Wuzzy and the leak the flowing liquid
13:06 fkbm erlehmann: I saw them; they're very long and I like that someone spent time extrating the information inside it. It is however longer than I can spend right now to read. I'll probably get back to it later in the "to read" section.
13:06 Wuzzy erlehmann: you can use any drawtype for the container even, since drawtype is now decouple from liquidtype =)
13:07 fkbm So you could have flowers spreading like liquids?
13:07 Wuzzy so usually, when we say "liquid" we mean "liquidtype~='none'"
13:07 Wuzzy not sure what you mean...
13:07 fkbm drawtype is decoupled from liquidtype, right?
13:07 erlehmann flowers that … flow
13:07 erlehmann flow, flow-ers
13:07 erlehmann hahahahaha
13:08 Wuzzy yes
13:08 fkbm So what would drawtype="plant" (pardon my lesser knowledge) and liquidtype="water" look like?
13:08 erlehmann can i speed up vine performance by making it a climbable slow flowing liquid with spread 0?
13:09 fkbm (O_O) ooooh...
13:11 Wuzzy no that would not work because spread 0 means it also doesnt flow downwards
13:12 fkbm But theoretically, with an abm you could simulate growing upwards, right?
13:14 erlehmann there already exists a vine abm and it is a performance hog in jungles, so …
13:17 erlehmann Wuzzy, how can i search for node names in devtest interface?
13:17 Wuzzy you can't
13:17 erlehmann oh
13:17 sfan5 IMO builtin needs tab completion for item names
13:17 erlehmann look i'll just grep the names in the devtest source so i can /give them myself, i don't want to hover over everything. i don't know the items.
13:18 sfan5 and/or a more user friendly /give command
13:18 erlehmann with tab completion
13:19 erlehmann lol
13:19 Wuzzy youu dont have to grep just look in the PR changed files
13:20 erlehmann the node names are: testnodes:move_resistance0 to 7, testnodes:move_resistance_liquidlike0 to 7, testnodes:climbable_move_resistance_4, testnodes:liquid_noswim
13:20 erlehmann is that all Wuzzy ?
13:20 Wuzzy fkbm: This is a flower liquid. blue = source, orange = flowing
13:21 Wuzzy https://satoshiupload.com/images/KJvQpw3gJE.png
13:21 Wuzzy yes
13:24 fkbm Wow, that's beautiful!!!
13:24 fkbm Better than I immagined!
13:26 erlehmann Wuzzy, liquid no-swim is pretty cool for building a purple tinted tent, but i experience z-fighting with light source 14 inside it. prob not your fault i guess?
13:26 Wuzzy this is completely unrelated issue
13:26 Wuzzy this PR does not touch on rendering so is irrelevant for now
13:27 Wuzzy fkbm: so yeah this screenshot is a real liquid like water. it flows like water and you can swim. only the nodes look different
13:27 Wuzzy this shold work for other drawtypes as well i guess
13:28 erlehmann i just mention everything i find
13:29 fkbm That's interesting. There's a mod out there which can use torches to light other blocks on fire. A good scare would be to have a liquid torch, and watch the others running. :D
13:29 erlehmann and i have not yet seen light source / liquid z-fighting so i thought maybe
13:33 fkbm Wow... Wuzzy ... can the size be made dependent on the flow level? like can param2 be used also for the plantsize? (o_O)
13:33 fkbm or scale.
13:34 Wuzzy no, thats not possible, paramtype2 must be "flowingliquid" for the flowing node, othrwise the flowing wont work
13:35 fkbm Ah, right. :/
13:35 Wuzzy if you want something like that, i guess this would require the invention of new paramtype2s
13:36 Wuzzy also note the many floating flowers
13:36 Wuzzy but thats just how the liquid spread works, not a bug
13:36 fkbm Yeah, the mid air ones.
13:37 fkbm It's a nice "trip" this side effect. :)
13:38 Wuzzy 😀
13:44 fkbm It's a nice "trip" this side effect. :)
13:45 fkbm Wrong window :| (facepalm)
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13:49 erlehmann Wuzzy, prob unrelated to your PR, but you can not see climbable move resistant node 4 while you are inside it, is that intended?
13:49 Wuzzy intended
13:49 Wuzzy this is a so-called property test node (DevTest slang), meaning it only tests node properties that affect gameplay
13:50 erlehmann yeah i get it, i was just confused when the stack of those nodes disappeared when i was inside it
13:50 Wuzzy so rendering does not matter, its only an icon so you see where the node is basically 😉
13:50 erlehmann i am noticing i am referring to my own irc message regarding the node names more often than i should btw
13:50 Wuzzy i know its a bit annoying, i have reworked the rendering of climbable nodes in another PR that is being ignored
13:50 erlehmann how are other users of devtest handling it?
13:51 Wuzzy idk
13:51 Wuzzy hmmm probbly its about time to implement a search feature then... lol
13:51 Wuzzy DevTest wasn't always this large 😀
13:51 erlehmann kinda
13:53 erlehmann i can't /give myself testnodes:move_resistance0
13:53 erlehmann minetest.register_node("testnodes:move_resistance"..r
13:53 erlehmann hmmm
13:53 erlehmann oh it starts at 1 lol
13:53 erlehmann so much for asking
13:54 erlehmann you see why i asked for a list of node names i guess, i am not very clever ;)
13:55 erlehmann Wuzzy, so why is “move_resistance = 0” not tested, can it not be set?
13:55 Wuzzy it can but its the same as air, ie pointles
13:56 erlehmann is it? how would i verify that? :P
13:56 erlehmann of course it is pointless, i want to see if it is buggy
13:56 erlehmann bc i can totally see ppl accidentally setting it to 0
13:57 Wuzzy works for me
13:57 Wuzzy alright, the 0 is a supported value but its the defaul and same as air
13:57 Wuzzy 0 means no move resistance at all which is the defaul
13:58 Wuzzy we also don't explicitly test damage_per_second=0
13:58 Wuzzy since all nodes already have that by default
13:58 erlehmann well i would test that to see if someone is dividing anything by zero, but i did not think of the default case
13:58 erlehmann admittedly
13:58 Wuzzy lol, no division by zero dont worry
13:58 Wuzzy i tested it myselves btw
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13:59 Wuzzy if the 0 case breaks, you will know immedaitely because it means that air broke
13:59 erlehmann “for r=0, 7 do” followed by “if r > 0 then” is weird btw
13:59 erlehmann oh fleckenstein once gifted me air on a server
13:59 erlehmann i think it was 420 air originally
13:59 Wuzzy DevTest is not getting the prize for mot beautiful code 😛
13:59 erlehmann but i only got like 411 because some air was already taken
13:59 Wuzzy lol
13:59 erlehmann well it is the reason why i thought that 0 might work bc i overlooked the if
14:00 Wuzzy daaamn i wish i got air on JT2 haha
14:00 Wuzzy would have immediately gotten into my museum 😀
14:00 Wuzzy I wonder what happened to JT2 again... sorcerykid disappeard without a trace... AGAIN!
14:01 erlehmann oh damn i still have to build a museum of illegal items too
14:01 Wuzzy i feel like sorcerykid needs to give the server to someone else if she cant handle it anymore
14:01 erlehmann once on a server i came upon overstacked milk buckets that was weird
14:01 erlehmann like … why
14:01 Wuzzy i built a museum of all the foods in a server =)
14:01 erlehmann Wuzzy, what's your best illegal item?
14:01 Wuzzy that servr had a lot of them actually, was harder than it sounds
14:01 erlehmann in the museum i mean
14:01 Wuzzy in the museum? none
14:02 Wuzzy well, i have a couple of unknown items but i dont know what they are
14:02 erlehmann and out of the museum?
14:02 Wuzzy let mee check
14:03 erlehmann the best illegal item i once made was an enchanted fishing rod with with 172kb metadata … but in singleplayer only sadly
14:03 Wuzzy so one of my unknown items is soda_can (dont know mod)
14:04 erlehmann i think the most useful illegal item i acquired on a server is probably a nested shulker named large item collection, it contains more shulkers with more items
14:04 erlehmann i have never used it though
14:04 erlehmann oh wait, once. to build an illegal base out of illegal items!
14:05 erlehmann (they were only illegal in terms of being in a nested shulker before though)
14:07 Wuzzy oh best illegal item was some kind of fake light/explosion dropped by a buggy mob on JT2
14:07 Wuzzy it had no inventory image set so it was invisible in inventory 😆
14:07 Wuzzy thats only possible in 0.4.17 tho
14:07 Wuzzy or 0.4 in general
14:07 erlehmann why that?
14:08 Wuzzy because there is now a fallback image if inventory_image is not set so the invisible inventory item bug should no longer happen
14:08 erlehmann explosions are indeed a fun way to drop items
14:08 Wuzzy i dont remember what this item was called
14:08 erlehmann i once exploded beacon beams, they dropped as items
14:08 erlehmann now i have renewable laser beams in inventory
14:09 Wuzzy also sorcerykid somehow managed to delete all instances of this broken item 😀
14:09 Wuzzy so did you find any bugs in my PR so far? you seemed to tested a lot =)
14:09 erlehmann i am still testing
14:09 erlehmann so the liquidlike move resistance things should not flow right?
14:10 erlehmann and in general, being in the ugly cobwebs with the head should not do anything right?
14:12 Wuzzy yes yes
14:12 Wuzzy the latter is an unrelated bug that I want to fix in a different PR
14:12 erlehmann ok
14:13 erlehmann i will test the interactions between 5.5 server and 5.4 client now
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21:16 MinetestBot [git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Split vector.new into 3 constructors 2cefe51 https://git.io/JuaXR (2021-09-10T21:16:16Z)
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21:18 MinetestBot [git] TurkeyMcMac -> minetest/minetest: Send to clients node metadata that changed to become empty (#11597) 7423c4c https://git.io/JuaXX (2021-09-10T21:16:34Z)
21:18 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Clean up/improve some scriptapi error handling code 766e885 https://git.io/JuaX1 (2021-09-10T21:16:46Z)
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