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asdflkj_sh |
how do I make an item edible? |
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asdflkj_sh |
on_use = minetest.item_eat(2), |
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asdflkj_sh |
(/me found it) |
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mazes_81 |
@TenPlusOne: I was a little bit ennoyed to see nothing can regenerate dirt_with_dry_grass, so I tweaked bonemeal to change dirt_dry to dirt_with_dry_grass when using mulch |
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| 10:03 |
[A_A] |
Apparently eating superapples while using luk3yx's cloaking mod crashes the server |
| 10:04 |
luk3yx |
A wild Andrew appeared |
| 10:04 |
[A_A] |
lol |
| 10:04 |
luk3yx |
They probably use get_player_by_name somewhere |
| 10:04 |
[A_A] |
http://ix.io/3xws |
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[A_A] |
luk3yx is cyan |
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independent56 |
What do you think of the first building in my new spawn? https://imgur.com/a/XyWf94U |
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sfan5 |
look good but I hope you'll put some greenery in your spawn |
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sfan5 |
just cobble is terribly boring |
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independent56 |
Good idea |
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independent56 |
I wasthining ofways touse that space |
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independent56 |
https://imgur.com/a/eVOJgLK |
| 12:56 |
independent56 |
Here is some greenery. around the buildings,there will also be gardens |
| 12:58 |
independent56 |
I stole the european idea of p-utting houses and shops in the same place |
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| 13:13 |
BuckarooBanzai |
independent56: is this a public server or still your local "sandbox"? |
| 13:14 |
independent56 |
Nope, it's multiplayer: http://56i.duckdns.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:better_spawn |
| 13:14 |
BuckarooBanzai |
"the server is very slow and is generally unplayable" :D |
| 13:15 |
independent56 |
XD yeah, anyone outside my home will find it takes ages to laod a mapblock |
| 13:15 |
independent56 |
Even me, myself |
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| 13:48 |
independent56 |
If my spawn was based of north american cities, then it would be a huge sroad with seas of parking and huge shop warehosues |
| 13:53 |
specing |
and lots of cars WE copypasted all over the place |
| 13:55 |
independent56 |
XD |
| 13:55 |
independent56 |
And a few thousand blocks away is surburbia, with no paths and wide roads |
| 13:57 |
independent56 |
My spawn has no space for cars. It is pure walkability. The only highway you will find is HP2 (more info: http://56i.duckdns.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:hiking ) |
| 13:57 |
sfan5 |
game idea: you are a pedestrian in an american city and have to survive while being given tasks to follow various paths that span over well-used roads |
| 13:57 |
sfan5 |
(there are no pedestrian crossings of course) |
| 13:57 |
independent56 |
XD i wish i could code that |
| 13:58 |
independent56 |
I might as well learn the API to make it |
| 14:12 |
independent56 |
Calling the USA "America" is like calling Germany "Europe". |
| 14:15 |
CWz |
I bet if you tell most US people that Canadians are also Americans they're mind would be blown or argue. |
| 14:15 |
independent56 |
"Here in Europe, we get to our meetings not a second late!" |
| 14:17 |
CWz |
probably why some think US has 52 states; since they count Mexico and Canada |
| 14:17 |
CWz |
is england still a part of Europe |
| 14:17 |
independent56 |
That's Northern america |
| 14:18 |
independent56 |
CWz, More lilely Scotland or Northen Island will stay in europe ;-) |
| 14:18 |
independent56 |
*northen Eire |
| 14:20 |
CWz |
I not sure how a feel about US naming some of their places after existing non US places and just adding New as a Prefix |
| 14:20 |
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| 14:21 |
CWz |
Im gonna name my virtual city New Seattle or New Kansas |
| 14:21 |
sfan5 |
New New York |
| 14:21 |
CWz |
Doctor Who? |
| 14:22 |
independent56 |
I'm gonna call New Spawn "NSpawn" |
| 14:22 |
CWz |
I wonder what New Haven was named after |
| 14:23 |
independent56 |
Because it's 1 - North of spawn 2 - New of spawn 3 - Who needs vowels? |
| 14:23 |
CWz |
And where is the original Jersey |
| 14:23 |
[A_A] |
CWz: New Haven is named after YL's haven |
| 14:23 |
[A_A] |
Alias: or opposite? |
| 14:24 |
[A_A] |
irrlichtmt wont build on arm64 |
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| 14:40 |
Calinou |
> <independent56> I'm gonna call New Spawn "NSpawn" |
| 14:40 |
Calinou |
systemd-nspawn? :P |
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| 14:57 |
independent56 |
XD |
| 14:57 |
independent56 |
Nah, it's just what i like to call it. It's NSP for advtrains |
| 15:44 |
jonadab |
Eww, advtrains. |
| 15:44 |
jonadab |
laaaaaaaag |
| 15:45 |
jonadab |
Also, if you tell most _Canadians_ that they are American, they will be as offended as Canadians ever get. |
| 15:46 |
jonadab |
i.e., they'll correct you and then probably apologize for doing so. |
| 15:50 |
rubenwardy |
Whilst Canadians (and others) are technically Americans, colloquially it refers to US citizens only |
| 15:52 |
rubenwardy |
also, United States of America is probably where American comes from |
| 15:53 |
rubenwardy |
Germany isn't called the United States of Europe |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
not yet ;-) |
| 15:53 |
rubenwardy |
:D |
| 15:55 |
jonadab |
I'm not sure how you figure Canadians are technically Americans. |
| 15:56 |
jonadab |
"American" is a nationality, not an ethnicity. It refers to citizenship in a specific country. Canadians have their own version, "Canadian". |
| 15:57 |
jonadab |
Where you tend to get confusion about this, is when native speakers of other languages (particularly Romance languages) get involved. |
| 15:58 |
jonadab |
Because their cognate-word for American, means anyone from the Western Hemisphere. |
| 16:00 |
jonadab |
But if that was ever the case in English, I'm not aware of it. Before America gained its independence, people who lived over here were called "Colonists" or "Colonials" in general, or for the specific colony they lived in, e.g., "Virginians". |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
Canada is in the americas |
| 16:00 |
jonadab |
True. |
| 16:00 |
jonadab |
But not relevant. |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
My point was that American refers to the USA, not to the americas |
| 16:01 |
jonadab |
Yeah, people started calling themselves Americans, after the nation gained independence. |
| 16:01 |
jonadab |
So it refers to the country. |
| 16:01 |
jonadab |
Well, I think some may have started calling themselves Americans _during the revolution_, but that amounts to the same thing, since they ended up winning. |
| 16:02 |
jonadab |
Canadians have never called themselves Americans, at any time in history, so far as I am aware. |
| 16:03 |
jonadab |
(Well, maybe in a couple of places where minor border adjustments have occurred. Compared to most international borders, that one's been relatively stable, but there _have_ been a couple of small changes.) |
| 16:03 |
rubenwardy |
There's a coffee shop chain near me (UK) called Boston Tea Party |
| 16:03 |
rubenwardy |
They sell tea too, it would be ironic if it was only coffee |
| 16:03 |
jonadab |
That's... interesting. |
| 16:04 |
rubenwardy |
https://bostonteaparty.co.uk/ |
| 16:04 |
jonadab |
Wait, ... I assume Boston (MA) is named after a previous Boston in the Old World, probably in England. Said tea shop isn't by any chance near that location, is it? |
| 16:05 |
jonadab |
THAT would make the joke just so much better. |
| 16:05 |
rubenwardy |
Boston is the other side of the country, unfortunately |
| 16:05 |
jonadab |
(Nearly all the major cities in New England are named for Old-World places, usually in England, with a handful of notable exceptions like Providence.) |
| 16:06 |
jonadab |
Aww. |
| 16:07 |
jonadab |
(Our place names get more diverse west of the Appalachians, incidentally.) |
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Pexin |
Amerigo Vespucci gets way too much credit anyway |
| 17:13 |
Pexin |
sfan5: isn't new new york from robocop? |
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jonadab |
Pexin: Eh, he's got two more continents named after him than any other single person. Is that not enough? |
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| 19:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: The Lua grammar is context-free (and can be parsed in linear time) BTW, wouldn't that fulfill the LangSec requirements? |
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| 19:45 |
erlehmann |
luatic i have no idea what specific requirements you refer to. |
| 19:47 |
erlehmann |
luatic i would say, if you can build a recognizer that can distinguish valid from invalid inputs with 100% accuracy, that is a good start. surely for a subset of lua that is feasible, like for sending a lua table to a client. |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> From a brief skimming, it seems that they demand the input language - which in this case is Lua - is context-free or regular. |
| 19:48 |
erlehmann |
have you read the two papers i linked? |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'm pretty confident LuaJIT has 100% accuracy regarding syntactical analysis |
| 19:50 |
erlehmann |
you may be confusing two things here. a programming language often has a parsing and an execution state. |
| 19:50 |
erlehmann |
perl for example can not be statically parsed |
| 19:50 |
erlehmann |
lua can i guess |
| 19:52 |
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| 19:52 |
erlehmann |
the thing is, if you want to send lua code from a to b, creating the AST is usually not enough. it can be though, as in my example of sending a lua table. |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Creating the AST is of course not the same as executing it. |
| 19:53 |
erlehmann |
luatic if you do not claim to have read the two papers, i assume you have not and stop here until you claim you do. i do not have the time to explain everything. |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Alright, I accept that. |
| 19:53 |
erlehmann |
and in fact those writers can put it much better than i can do |
| 19:55 |
erlehmann |
oh btw, for people who say everything works out if you do not care about things like langsec or the halting problem. that is – to borrow an expression from john regehr – the same as saying “you said that in basketball you can not hold the ball and run around with it. but i tried that and it worked out fine. obviously you have no idea about basketball!” |
| 19:56 |
erlehmann |
obviously, there are technologies that cater to such people, usually marketed as “programming language for non-programmers”, like PHP |
| 19:57 |
erlehmann |
(logically, things written in PHP are non-programs) |
| 19:58 |
erlehmann |
luatic the two papers i have linked taken together are the most effective measure of boosting ppls programming skills once i have found. their are entire classes of errors that ppl who understand the langsec approach and follow it never make. |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:06 |
erlehmann |
luatic the trick is to realize that tim berners-lee (creator of the WWW) was right with his “principle of least power”: you get the best results when you represent the issues you have in terms of a languge with a grammar whose complexity exactly matches the problem. |
| 20:06 |
erlehmann |
luatic “parsing html with regex” is where you have a grammar not powerful enough, so it is never correct |
| 20:07 |
erlehmann |
luatic “creating html on the fly with maybe-never-terminating javascript” is where you have a grammar too powerful, so it is never correct |
| 20:07 |
erlehmann |
html may be not a good example per se, but both of these abominations are widely done by developers who should know better |
| 20:08 |
erlehmann |
to go back to minetest, i have yet to see a problem where the complexity that some ppl advocate should be solved by a CSM needs the full expressive power of lua |
| 20:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Noodlemire> I like how you say you don't have time to explain everything, but then you do it anyways. |
| 20:08 |
erlehmann |
usually it is something that can be solved with a static lookup table |
| 20:09 |
erlehmann |
oh no, i just explain stuff that is not spelled-out in the paper |
| 20:09 |
erlehmann |
for example, the paper does not actully say anything about minetest |
| 20:09 |
erlehmann |
it may say something about regex and html though, so i may have lied just now |
| 20:10 |
erlehmann |
Noodlemire good that you like what i do, i need fans! |
| 20:47 |
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| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Oh God I would never parse HTML with RegEx |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I do know my fair share of how parsing is to be done though. |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> If something can be done using a DFA / regular expressions, I will do it that way. |
| 20:53 |
erlehmann |
luatic well then what would you use CSMs for? |
| 20:53 |
erlehmann |
i mean there are legit reasons for CSMs don't get me wrong |
| 20:54 |
erlehmann |
it is just that most game logic i know does not need it |
| 20:54 |
erlehmann |
and the strongest proponents of CSMs seem to be ppl who make server side mods but want something the engine does not provide |
| 20:55 |
erlehmann |
the way gone so far is to carefully figure out which new capability you need and implement that |
| 20:55 |
erlehmann |
btw, i for example, would like to have static formspecs in node definitions |
| 20:55 |
erlehmann |
that way i don't have to store formspecs in node meta |
| 20:56 |
erlehmann |
and can save that LBM whose name contains a hash of the formspec (so it gets executed when the formspec changes, to upgrade all echests) |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ngl, that sounds pointless and dumb |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> the whole reason formspecs in meta is offered is so that they can be opened instantly by the client regardless of lag |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> but there a pain in the ass to update |
| 20:58 |
sfan5 |
formspecs in nodemeta is on my todolist |
| 20:58 |
sfan5 |
eh |
| 20:58 |
sfan5 |
nodedef I mean |
| 20:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> in what way? |
| 21:00 |
sfan5 |
you mean how I plan to implement it? |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Until formspecs are properly parameterizable, this is pretty useless |
| 21:00 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon formspec in node definition would be instant too |
| 21:00 |
erlehmann |
and even more efficient |
| 21:00 |
erlehmann |
wuzzy actually had that idea of static formspecs |
| 21:00 |
erlehmann |
and as i told you, it would make the LBM upgrade dance disappear |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yeah, no unneeded duplication of the same formspec string |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> "and can save that LBM whose name contains a hash of the formspec (so it gets executed when the formspec changes, to upgrade all echests)" |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> seems you want the same painful process of updating |
| 21:02 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon no i just improved it so i never need to touch the LBM again unless i revert the formspec, in which case wtf am i doing |
| 21:03 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon you can examine my approach here https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/commit/f8c58262bc024659eb3ba53dbc006a917054ba7f |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
you don't need an LBM to update when the formspec is in the nodedef |
| 21:04 |
erlehmann |
sfan5 yeah but it is not, yet? |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
correct, no such feature yet |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> sfan5: than that would be useful |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> however i assume you still would have to fall back to show_formspec if you want to control conditions? |
| 21:05 |
erlehmann |
the thing is that mineclone2 had changed echests to not have the formspec in there, leading to massive lag (bc in general, mineclone2 devs care about singleplayer performance on beefed up gaming rigs and not much else) |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
@Jonathon of course |
| 21:06 |
erlehmann |
in the echest case that is actually relevant |
| 21:07 |
erlehmann |
they changed it bc the echest should not open if something is above it |
| 21:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> if you never put formspecs in meta, you would never need overhead of a lbm to update and/or remove it |
| 21:07 |
erlehmann |
my response to that would of course be to either have 2 different echest nodes with triggers on node placement or having one and changing its formspec on node placement |
| 21:08 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon yes, that is why i want the formspec in node definition |
| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i mean, you screwed for all time anyways |
| 21:08 |
erlehmann |
how |
| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you need that lbm there for all time |
| 21:08 |
erlehmann |
yes ofc |
| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> for echests |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> the probably with map editors is they only support certain features and certain sql backends |
| 21:09 |
erlehmann |
? |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *problem |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> map editors are a alternative to having a abm running for all time |
| 21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> *a/lbm |
| 21:10 |
erlehmann |
uh how |
| 21:10 |
erlehmann |
i don't get it, what is a map editor and how can i invoke it in a mod |
| 21:10 |
erlehmann |
is it some new function? |
| 21:10 |
erlehmann |
i only know worldedit |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> im saying a map editor as a external program, some people have made them |
| 21:11 |
erlehmann |
yeah ok but that is no solution for a mod |
| 21:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i mean, its not a nice solution |
| 21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/random-geek/MapEditr is a example |
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| 22:17 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: CI: Bump IrrlichtMt to 1.9.0mt3 beac4a2 https://git.io/JEQPN (2021-08-31T21:57:39Z) |
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erlehmann |
mcl_meshnode proven to work https://mister-muffin.de/p/RDjf.png |
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