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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-08-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:16 Menchers I'm trying to set up a media server and am not sure what is required
02:16 Menchers what is index.mth and why is the client POSTing it?
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02:49 Menchers on further inspection it seems to literally be using POST as GET
02:49 Menchers I don't know how to configure my webserver to allow this
02:49 Menchers wat
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09:19 MinetestBot [git] ClobberXD -> minetest/minetest: Allow binding dig, place actions to keys; remove LMB/RMB hardcoding 291a6b7 https://git.io/JJ5DD (2020-08-15T09:19:20Z)
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09:30 BuckarooBanzai !tell Wuzzy can you take a look at this: https://content.minetest.net/threads/256/ license things are more your area i think (also: its a copy of you game/mod)
09:30 MinetestBot BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around
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11:48 CraneZhou hello here,
11:48 CraneZhou good evening.
11:48 CraneZhou https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/minetest
11:48 CraneZhou I could not open this web page (503 Service Unavailable).
11:49 CraneZhou is there some one could open this web page ?
11:49 heavygale nope, it's a server side error
11:49 CraneZhou oh,
11:49 CraneZhou heavygale: thank you very much for your answer.
11:57 CraneZhou have you played this game on the android phone (a F-Droid app) ?
11:57 heavygale not much
11:57 heavygale i'm no phone player ^^
11:57 CraneZhou oh,
11:58 CraneZhou I will try to play this app on the android phone later if possible. ;-P
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12:22 specing CraneZhou: why if you have Fedora?
12:27 CraneZhou specing:I installed the fedora linux destribution on my laptop.
12:29 bebebeko F :)
12:29 CraneZhou but unfortunately, the minetest server is not available for fedora linux version.
12:30 bebebeko CraneZhou: https://fedora.pkgs.org/32/fedora-updates-x86_64/minetest-server-5.3.0-1.fc32.x86_64.rpm.html ?
12:32 CraneZhou bebebeko: ok, thank you very much for your help.
12:33 CraneZhou my laptop version is fedora 30.
12:34 CraneZhou I will try to upgrade to fedora 32 or install the 4.x version of minetest.
12:35 specing CraneZhou: why do you need the server?
12:35 specing also fedora 30 is EOL now?
12:36 CraneZhou i just want to play some tutorial game of the minetest.
12:36 CraneZhou yes.
12:37 CraneZhou I know the fedora 30 is EOL and I will try to upgrade to fedora 31 and 32.
12:37 specing I don't think there is a tutorial game
12:37 CraneZhou https://wiki.minetest.net/Games/Tutorial
12:38 CraneZhou https://wiki.minetest.net/How_to_build_your_first_house
12:38 calcul0n i doubt this one is useful, it's very old
12:38 CraneZhou is this tutorial worth playing ?
12:38 CraneZhou oh.
12:38 calcul0n i'd say the best way to learn is to play on a server and  find cool people to teach you :)
12:39 specing a lot of popular servers have tutorial sections, but I don't think
12:39 specing you actually need tutorials to play
12:39 specing I mean it's just wasd and i + the rest is obvious
12:40 specing and everything else depends on installed mods, so you can't really learn it upfront
12:43 CraneZhou specing: oh, thank you very much for your comments. ;-P
12:43 specing and most of the real deep knowledge comes from reading mod source code
12:43 specing since it isn't documented at all
12:45 CraneZhou I will try to start a simple case such as (how to build a simple house) in the minetest game.
12:45 specing don't bother
12:45 specing do it on a popular server
12:46 CraneZhou oh.
12:47 specing you'll also have a much larger variety of building materials
12:50 CraneZhou ok, thank you very much for your comments.
12:50 CraneZhou I will try later.
12:50 CraneZhou ;-P
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14:51 MinetestBot Wuzzy: Aug-15 09:30 UTC <BuckarooBanzai> can you take a look at this: https://content.minetest.net/threads/256/ license things are more your area i think (also: its a copy of you game/mod)
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16:17 appguru https://github.com/untoldengine/UntoldEngine#what-you-need seems to be a LGPL-2.1 game engine targeted at Apple devices
16:18 appguru Makes me wonder whether there is some similar way to get Minetest to Apple?
16:18 heavygale you can play minetest just fine on MacOS  :)
16:18 appguru Yeah, jailbreaking I guess?
16:18 heavygale that's iOS
16:19 appguru homebrew then?
16:20 heavygale or download a precompiled app
16:20 heavygale https://github.com/krondor-game/minetest/releases
16:21 Calinou you can sideload apps but only for a limited amount of time before they're disabled
16:21 Calinou (and you need a Mac to do that)
16:21 Calinou it's very inconvenient, to the point even B2B people are complaining about it :)
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16:34 Krock 2B or not 2B, Calinou ?
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18:54 Peppy /CLEAR
18:55 Peppy ooops
18:56 Krock Peppy: please don't clear me
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22:19 Menchers wow
22:19 Menchers the remote media server stuff is so weird
22:19 Menchers why are all the files renamed to SHA-1 hashes of their content? why does the client have to POST the list of what it wants?
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22:24 Menchers huh how does the client even know which cached texture corresponds to which texture name
22:25 Menchers the filename is completely replaced with the SHA-1 hash
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22:30 sfan5 when the server tells the client which textures it has it also transfers the sha1 hash
22:30 sfan5 this is also how the client can reliably know whether it already has the file locally or not
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22:31 Menchers are the filenames included? I just saw the sha1 hashes
22:32 sfan5 by "server tells the client" I mean the UDP connection phase here, not remote media
22:32 Menchers ah, ok
22:32 rubenwardy I feel like the POST protocol hasn't been properly performance tested or evaluated
22:33 Menchers I got the hashlist and textures served on my httpd, now I just gotta figure out how to get it to allow POST
22:33 Menchers client keeps getting 403 because the server expects you to GET static content :/
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22:34 Menchers maybe I don't understand why the server needs to know which ones you need
22:34 Menchers I guess it can prune a few files if it has more than you need
22:34 Menchers but can't the client just grab the whole list and pick and choose?
22:35 rubenwardy you can serve the POST like a GET
22:35 Menchers don't know how to configure my httpd to do that
22:35 Menchers it seems unusual
22:36 rubenwardy location /index.mth {  error_page 405 =200 $uri;  }
22:37 Menchers ah
22:40 sfan5 definitely unusual and I agree a GET request would be better
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22:46 rubenwardy or no request at all
22:47 rubenwardy the HTTP API itself already handles non-existant files
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22:48 sfan5 not requesting stuff that isn't there is definitely of use
22:51 Menchers hrm
22:52 Menchers still can't get the httpd to allow POST for getting static content
22:52 Menchers grar
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22:53 rubenwardy the POST API isn't CDN or cache friendly
22:54 rubenwardy and most correctly set up remote media servers will have a large majority of the files - there's less need to check available files
22:54 rubenwardy index.mth feels over designed and badly designed
22:56 Menchers is there any reason not to just serve the files by their ordinary names (like, "default_dirt.png" instead of "a69b5634dbcb8b67a5d66402bac9f105618b9030")
22:56 rubenwardy they may have different values
22:56 Menchers I suppose there could be collisions
22:56 Hawk777 Well, saving by hash means an upgrade that changes the texture but doesn’t rename it works properly.
22:56 rubenwardy you'd have no idea if the default_dirt.png is the correct version
22:56 Menchers ah
22:57 rubenwardy using hashes means you can have a single server serving lots of different versions
22:57 Menchers what if someone wants to use a different one from what the game server specifies?
22:57 Menchers custom texture pack
22:57 rubenwardy it doesn't download from the remote media server
22:57 Menchers right
22:58 Menchers ok
22:58 Menchers so by design the remote media server will only give you what the game server has as "official" textures
23:00 Menchers I guess most of my headache here is the [mis?]use of POST
23:00 rubenwardy no, the client only requests textures not in an enabled texture pack
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