Time |
Nick |
Message |
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SoylentCow |
where am i? |
03:55 |
SoylentCow |
mt |
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04:38 |
Extex |
How do I make something take like 3 seconds to break no matter the tool? |
05:05 |
Extex |
Anybody? |
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07:36 |
Flitzpiepe |
hello everyone |
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10:26 |
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10:28 |
Guest4875 |
How is the preference list of minetest development? I mean what comes first: feature request or bugs? |
10:29 |
Guest4875 |
I'm wondering if put feature request issues in github will waste developers time |
10:40 |
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10:41 |
balirt |
@Extex look at this part of the documentation: |
10:41 |
balirt |
https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/groups/#known-damage-and-digging-time-defining-groups |
10:41 |
balirt |
remove all the typical groups used for toolbreaking from your node [such as crumbly, cracky, snappy, etc], and give it the group "oddly_breakable_by_hand=1". |
10:41 |
balirt |
As long as no other tool has the correct groups to dig the node, it should always break after ~3.5seconds |
10:54 |
bebebeko |
rubenwardy: hi, looks like ssl cert on your site is expired. openssl s_client -connect rubenwardy.com:443 < /dev/null 2>&1 | grep -m1 ^notAfter= |
10:54 |
bebebeko |
notAfter=Jul 20 22:41:48 2020 GMT |
11:15 |
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11:48 |
H-H-H |
hey guys any windows 64 builders around |
11:48 |
H-H-H |
been trying to build minetest on win 10 64bit by following the readme on github for hrs and keep getting the same errors |
11:53 |
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12:16 |
MinetestBot |
[git] MoNTE48 -> minetest/minetest: Android: Fix ConfirmRegistration and PasswordChange input and scale s… 76afde8 https://git.io/JJWUi (2020-07-21T12:16:25Z) |
12:22 |
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13:22 |
specing |
VanessaE: hello, is there a reason why the autocrafter cannot be queried for the crafting recipe? |
13:24 |
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13:51 |
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13:51 |
erentar1 |
how do i find bronze |
13:53 |
calcul0n |
erentar1, you can't find it, craft it with 8 copper ingots and one tin in the middle |
13:53 |
erentar1 |
how do i find copper |
13:53 |
calcul0n |
but some mods might change the recipe |
13:54 |
erentar1 |
i cant find anything but coal |
13:54 |
erentar1 |
stone pickaxe is slow |
13:54 |
calcul0n |
dig deeper :) |
13:54 |
erentar1 |
ive got to -150 or so, whereabouts do i find the minerals? |
13:54 |
calcul0n |
you should find some there, maybe they are a bit rare at this level |
13:55 |
erentar1 |
what level do i find usable amounts |
13:55 |
sfan5 |
below -64 for copper, -128 for tin |
13:55 |
erentar1 |
thanks! |
13:55 |
calcul0n |
the best is to go around -1000 but you'll find a lot before you reach it |
13:56 |
erentar1 |
oof |
13:56 |
erentar1 |
stone pickaxe is kinda painfully slow to get there |
13:56 |
calcul0n |
you should find iron quickly too |
13:58 |
erentar1 |
i have filled a chest full of cobble and havent found anything but coal yet |
13:59 |
balirt |
do the texture overlaying commands work nested, so each overlaid texture can be changed individually (ex. with [mask, [colorize ) |
13:59 |
calcul0n |
don't despair, you're on the right way :) |
13:59 |
erentar1 |
thanks lol |
13:59 |
erentar1 |
this information is nowhere to be found |
13:59 |
erentar1 |
gotta add it to the wiki |
14:00 |
balirt |
its probably in the ore generator |
14:00 |
erentar1 |
https://wiki.minetest.net/Ore#Ores_overview |
14:01 |
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14:16 |
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14:21 |
FeXoR |
Hello dear miners o/ |
14:22 |
FeXoR |
Falling on a boat onto solid ground does not result in damage.I checked for a bug report on |
14:22 |
FeXoR |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game |
14:23 |
FeXoR |
But didn't find any open bug concerning this. |
14:23 |
FeXoR |
Is that the correct place to report the bug in the first place? |
14:25 |
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14:29 |
sfan5 |
yes |
14:29 |
balirt |
why is your boat on solid ground anyway, sounds like you should fire the navigator |
14:30 |
FeXoR |
Hehe :p |
14:30 |
FeXoR |
Thanks sfan5 ;) |
14:31 |
* FeXoR |
gets the feeling that if that gets fixed a lot of player will be sad x) |
14:32 |
balirt |
is falldamage triggered by colliding with any physical entities? |
14:33 |
balirt |
or can you jump 1000 blocks and land on a chicken |
14:33 |
balirt |
I wonder whether "yes" or "no" would be the better option here |
14:36 |
FeXoR |
You plainly cannot get damage by falling when mounted n a boat. |
14:36 |
FeXoR |
(While that is a bold thesis dot having read through the code I tested this a lot. It's my preferred way of getting into a mine several thousand block below my home when no other means or teleportation is available;) |
14:36 |
FeXoR |
*on |
14:36 |
FeXoR |
*not |
14:41 |
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14:46 |
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14:52 |
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14:56 |
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14:59 |
swift110 |
does anyone here play minetest on a tablet? |
15:02 |
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15:31 |
fedora117 |
No but I've played it on Android. Anything other than the desktop/laptop experience is terrible and I'd recommend just using a real computer. |
15:34 |
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16:00 |
FeXoR |
Thanks for your swift reply sfan5 ;) |
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16:23 |
bebebeko |
folks, i have many entities with nametags https://i.ibb.co/SwNF9Gn/screencast.png, how i can limit visibility for entity nametags ? |
16:24 |
bebebeko |
i mean, limit disatance for nametags visibility |
16:47 |
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17:01 |
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17:06 |
sfan5 |
hm I don't think that's possible |
17:06 |
sfan5 |
unless you do it manually by hiding the nametag from Lua when no player is close |
17:07 |
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17:09 |
freelikegnu |
!seen Sokomine |
17:09 |
MinetestBot |
freelikegnu: sokomine was last seen at 2020-07-19 19:55:08 UTC on #minetest-hub |
17:10 |
balirt |
who do I need to bribe to get a HUD API for animated_image, same as the formspec element |
17:12 |
bebebeko |
sfan5: thanks, got it |
17:12 |
balirt |
how many ounces of gold |
17:16 |
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17:16 |
Krock |
balirt: 10 would be good, 40 if you're nice and 100 if it should happen within this decade without any further asking |
17:17 |
Krock |
some code already exists, thus most of it will be copy&paste and wiring documentation for it |
17:18 |
Krock |
though it might be possible to extend the currently existing image HUD element to specify the tiles count and delay |
17:22 |
balirt |
that would be a price of 18k $ and at the end, I couldn't even rant about it anymore |
17:22 |
balirt |
I'll think about it |
17:24 |
Krock |
balirt: most changes are done by those who want it most due to their own motivation |
17:24 |
Krock |
generally speaking |
17:25 |
balirt |
I'll try my best, my first obstacle will be to find where formspecs are defined in the source |
17:26 |
FeXoR |
Is this meant serious: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2710 |
17:27 |
balirt |
it can be only a matter of years until I'll make a horrible pullrequest |
17:27 |
fedora117 |
Lol pay me $350 USD I'll get it done in 2 weeks |
17:28 |
Krock |
balirt: src/gui/guiAnimatedImage.cpp |
17:28 |
balirt |
too late, Krock showed me the code, it's all gonna be smooth sailing from now on |
17:28 |
rubenwardy |
FeXoR: yes |
17:28 |
Krock |
src/client/hud.cpp for the hud elements |
17:28 |
balirt |
I'll compensate my lack of programming experience with unwavering enthusiasm |
17:29 |
fedora117 |
lol |
17:29 |
Krock |
that's a good approach |
17:30 |
FeXoR |
May I request an audience with you rubenwardy? I do not want to spam this channel :p |
17:30 |
Krock |
/query rubenwardy |
17:30 |
fedora117 |
I honestly don't know why people don't have a bounty source set up for Minetest. We'd finally get stuff done. |
17:30 |
freelikegnu |
commence hacking the matrix! |
17:30 |
Krock |
there are bounties |
17:30 |
rubenwardy |
sure, although I'm about to start cookin |
17:31 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: install libpthread and you'll be fine with multitasking |
17:31 |
FeXoR |
Oh, I just finished eating ;) |
17:31 |
rubenwardy |
nahh, std::thread |
17:31 |
rubenwardy |
C++11, baby |
17:31 |
Krock |
that's somewhat C++11 ish |
17:31 |
rubenwardy |
std::thread actually uses pthread under the surface, on some platforms |
17:31 |
Krock |
you still gotta link it with pthread to get it working |
17:31 |
rubenwardy |
snap |
17:32 |
Krock |
snap or flatpak |
17:32 |
FeXoR |
And engine without a played game ... is quite worrisome IMO. There is the example of the Spring engine that comes to mind. |
17:33 |
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17:33 |
Krock |
isn't Garry's Mod also just an engine, with some default content added to it? |
17:33 |
freelikegnu |
looking forward to minetest with hudface |
17:33 |
Krock |
freelikegnu: hudface? meshes in huds? |
17:33 |
freelikegnu |
http://images.wikia.com/doomevil/images/6/6b/Face.png |
17:34 |
FeXoR |
The older versions of the engine grant more featurs for the players because there at least the AI/Maps/Mods are still compatible with the engine. |
17:34 |
freelikegnu |
meshes would be amazing |
17:34 |
Krock |
oh no. I gave you more ideas |
17:34 |
Krock |
+1 issue incoming |
17:34 |
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17:34 |
FeXoR |
95%is servers is a bit hard to ignore IMO... |
17:34 |
freelikegnu |
remove the hard coded wield with hud meshes |
17:35 |
Krock |
Minetest also had mobs in version 0.3.1 IIRC |
17:35 |
Krock |
2D-semi-animated rats and dungeon masters |
17:35 |
Krock |
oerkki to |
17:36 |
freelikegnu |
dont we already have animated sprite entities? |
17:36 |
sfan5 |
yes |
17:36 |
Krock |
https://wiki.minetest.net/Oerkki |
17:36 |
freelikegnu |
and Little Otik too! |
17:37 |
* FeXoR |
wishes successfull cooking and good appetite to rubenwardy ;) |
17:37 |
rubenwardy |
The problem with MTG is that no one wants to develop it |
17:37 |
rubenwardy |
it's a game that tries to stay neutral and satisfy everyone, but doesn't satisfy anyone |
17:38 |
rubenwardy |
so the best approach is for it to be forked and developed unofficially so it doesn't suffer from politics |
17:38 |
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17:40 |
fedora117 |
@rubenwardy what would you add to MTG to make it worth the effort? |
17:40 |
FeXoR |
"doesn't satisfy anyone" How can you say that with 95%ish of the server using it? To me it seems that it's not a problem with MTG, it's a problem with people develope games for Minetest. They can do this right now ... yet still most use MGT at least as basis. |
17:40 |
rubenwardy |
95% of servers using it _with mods_ |
17:40 |
rubenwardy |
entering maintenance only mode still allows that |
17:41 |
rubenwardy |
fedora117: well, progression is fairly broken - there's no point in tin and bronze, you can obtain iron and mese very quickly. The world is very bland, there's no mobs or anything interactive. It's missing a personality and _fun_ |
17:42 |
FeXoR |
(I definitely can understand that developing a "base game" can be somewhat a drag for development. But untill there is another game that actually can keep pace with faster engine development and has proven by being used more often, then, sure!) |
17:42 |
balirt |
there's always a compromise between adding structured help (mapgen, items, inventory menu) to make the entry for modders as easy as possible, and staying neutral from the engine on the other side |
17:42 |
balirt |
I think MTG's popularity shows that, while there might not be a right answer, the current compromise worked well up to now |
17:43 |
rubenwardy |
MTG doesn't keep pace with engine development |
17:43 |
rubenwardy |
it barely uses any newer features, because features already aren't being added |
17:44 |
rubenwardy |
https://content.minetest.net/threads/235/#reply-502 |
17:44 |
FeXoR |
I see that leading to a similar situation like the spring engine faces: There are just a hand full of mods that run with the new engine and about 10 games happen there each day. There is only one mod left and that also contains a lot more bugs like say 10 years ago: Zero-K |
17:45 |
rubenwardy |
we're already in a situation where MTG is stagnating, this decision won't change that much |
17:45 |
rubenwardy |
the decision just confirms the reality |
17:45 |
rubenwardy |
now, you can change the reality |
17:45 |
rubenwardy |
but only if there are people willing to do so |
17:45 |
FeXoR |
Yes, I understand that MTG doesn't get updated. But what game does that is played, say, by at least 10% of the users of the MT engine? |
17:46 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest Game is a waste of my time because of the massive amount of effort it takes to do anything with it |
17:47 |
rubenwardy |
as I said earlier, it should be forked to be developed further. There would be two games - one which is a base for modding and maintenance only, the other which actually has some personality |
17:48 |
FeXoR |
So you aim for a less complete but easier to mod base game? |
17:48 |
rubenwardy |
no, exactly the same as it is now |
17:48 |
FeXoR |
...and that will still be shipped and developed with the engine? |
17:49 |
rubenwardy |
the eventual aim is for nothing to be shipped with the engine |
17:49 |
FeXoR |
Sorry, wasn't reading fast enough x) |
17:49 |
rubenwardy |
you have two users groups pulling Minetest Game in two directions. Splitting it into effectly two games - one for stability/modding, the other as a good base game - helps resolve that conflict |
17:49 |
FeXoR |
And who will youse your well developed engine then? |
17:49 |
FeXoR |
Where does your beleave in that game will be developed eventually come from? |
17:49 |
rubenwardy |
modders and users, as always |
17:50 |
rubenwardy |
the mainmenu will have a game launch screen where you can download Minetest Game, or any other game |
17:50 |
FeXoR |
Like you can tell from MTG :D |
17:50 |
rubenwardy |
well, it's not happening currently |
17:50 |
FeXoR |
Ah, wait! There's another example: The flare engine! |
17:51 |
FeXoR |
Yes, and what does make you beleave it will happen in the future? Oo |
17:51 |
rubenwardy |
An alternative to this is to divorce Minetest Game from the engine |
17:51 |
rubenwardy |
make it unofficial, get maintainers that aren't necessarily linked with core developers |
17:52 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't necessarily need to be unofficial |
17:52 |
FeXoR |
Then you lose the vast majority of player base ... even if only 1% or so can be brought to make meaningfull contributions to the engine or a game that's still not nothing! |
17:52 |
rubenwardy |
just away from paramat, and less conservative |
17:53 |
FeXoR |
Yea, I see... |
17:53 |
freelikegnu |
hmm Flare needs a mod hub |
17:53 |
balirt |
I guess that would solve the problem of constantly-growing backwards-compatibility issues preventing engine change |
17:53 |
balirt |
but there's a very good reason backwards compatibility is so treasured now, and its the majority of the userbase |
17:53 |
rubenwardy |
another benefit of not packaging MTG with the engine is that it then doesn't need to be tied to engine releases. You can update from within the client, and release more often |
17:54 |
FeXoR |
I whish you the best of luck. |
17:55 |
rubenwardy |
MTG isn't working currently |
17:55 |
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17:55 |
Corey[m] |
it's broken? |
17:56 |
Corey[m] |
I didn't realize, but then again I run it from source |
17:56 |
FeXoR |
Yes, so you have an engine that is not used or am I getting something wrong there? :D |
17:56 |
rubenwardy |
there's NodeCore, IKEA, and MineClone2 |
17:56 |
Corey[m] |
Nah, I've been working on my own base game (NoKore), where I split up default into smaller mods |
17:57 |
balirt |
he got a point though, if the engine can be developed aggressively AND someone gives users a decent base to jump from, that will be accepted by users as the new "standard" |
17:57 |
Corey[m] |
so I expect my own stuff to be hella broken, but hearing that the shipped game is broken, is kinda eh |
17:57 |
sfan5 |
balirt: the need for backwards compatibility doesn't go away with decoupling MTG |
17:58 |
Warr1024 |
NodeCore I happen to know has very good backwards compat. I spun up a world not long ago that was from the very early NodeCore era and it works just fine... |
17:59 |
FeXoR |
I agree sfan5. The player base build up over years on servers is more interested in stability. (Sure at some point a not maintained engine will simply fail to build, too) |
17:59 |
balirt |
I think that MTG could, in case of a split, if necessary or desired, stay on an old engine version...but you guys have been here longer and probably know better about that |
18:00 |
balirt |
and if their engine REALLY fails they'll bite the bullet and update |
18:00 |
Warr1024 |
People are interested in stability, but they're also very interested in heroin, as you can see from the market for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that's people actually need though. |
18:00 |
balirt |
look at sorcerykid and a lot of the core community guys here (devs included), that rebase old popular mods if there's just enough desire |
18:00 |
Corey[m] |
I agree, divorce MTG from the engine and put it on LTS support (for those who need the stability), maintained by the community, then fork it and have an edge version (which isn't shy about breaking things) |
18:01 |
Corey[m] |
it would be easier with an edge version to work side by side with engine development, so bugs are worked out before official releases |
18:01 |
sfan5 |
games "staying" on an older version doesn't really make sense since games do not have the choice of which engine you run them with (and even if, you can connect with a 5.3 or future client to a 5.0 server) |
18:02 |
freelikegnu |
even with "compatability updates" people still run old servers, seems almost pointless |
18:02 |
specing |
FeXoR: Can you elaborate on the "There is only one mod left and that also contains a lot more bugs like say 10 years ago: Zero-K"? |
18:02 |
specing |
the "left" part |
18:02 |
rubenwardy |
How can we (core devs) facilliate the development of a community-led Minetest Game? |
18:02 |
specing |
springrts can't really be compared to minetest apart from both having a lua api |
18:02 |
freelikegnu |
rubenwardy: I dunno, let the community have more influence? |
18:03 |
specing |
In springrts, you don't add addons to games like you do here in minetest |
18:03 |
Warr1024 |
ruben: establish the bylaws and other framework around deciding what goes in or does not. |
18:03 |
specing |
and in springrts, there is a lobby system ensuring that everyone has the correct engine version. There is no need for backwards compat |
18:03 |
Warr1024 |
e.g. figure out how things like nomination and voting works, etc. |
18:03 |
Corey[m] |
rubenwardy: Move it away from the minetest org, maybe create a new one called minetest-games, pick some volunteers from the community to lead that new org? |
18:03 |
freelikegnu |
don't punish potential developers with rebase hell? |
18:04 |
fedora117 |
bylaws will be a quick way to kill development. Just say you want high quality code only. |
18:04 |
Warr1024 |
I'm thinking more along the lines of stuff like who gets a say in what happens with it and how and where people's voices will be counted. |
18:04 |
freelikegnu |
well... its up to the Pr developer to keep their code current.. that was a little unfair |
18:04 |
rubenwardy |
that's the problem with MTG |
18:05 |
rubenwardy |
MTG devs required the craftguide mod to be rewritten, where the original mod is fine as-is |
18:05 |
Warr1024 |
the problem with "community" is that figuring out who's part of it and who isn't is a big pain... |
18:05 |
freelikegnu |
people who take time to make code and post a PR seem like people worth condsidering Warr1024 |
18:05 |
Warr1024 |
alternatively you could simply stop maintaining MTG as a game and establish it as an API specification only, and allow people to produce independent implementations of it that extend it in any way that isn't against the spec. |
18:06 |
FeXoR |
specing: Do you mean there are other spring engine games played a lot? Or what is broken now that was not boken 10 years ago? (The second: The lobby is broken for me on both linux and windows and takes minutes to check for an update before even attempting to start. The unit motion was working fine (besides units pushed into terrain they couldn't pass) but now you have units that don't attack when attack moving...) |
18:06 |
rubenwardy |
that's the idea behind the issue FeXoR posted |
18:07 |
Corey[m] |
freelikegnu: That's a pretty low standard, I'd like to add, those who explain what their code does, what it solves, and why it's worth merging should be considered |
18:07 |
Warr1024 |
It's really hard to design a system that isn't prone to some kind of abuse. For example it would not be hard for me to make a PR to gain voting rights into MTG if that's the criteria. On the other hand, it wouldn't be hard for a cabal of users to block future PRs from getting merged if having one merged is the criteria... |
18:07 |
FeXoR |
(And the patrol order just breaks at a random point in time, the skirmish AI is quite suicidal, ... |
18:07 |
Warr1024 |
the best way to do it might be just not to try and to let MTG fragment, and to use a spec to tie it all together instead. |
18:08 |
Warr1024 |
thus if someone makes an MTG successor that becomes popular enough to control the "market" then they get to decide what the future of MTG is so long as they can maintain that position. |
18:08 |
FeXoR |
No, specing, the spring lobby doen't only support one engine version. Shall I send you an actual screenshot of it? :D |
18:08 |
freelikegnu |
Corey[m]: I agree but so many PR's get 95% of the way to merging then fall off the map |
18:09 |
Corey[m] |
the other option is to have mod creators move away from MTG (primarily default as a dependency) and build smaller base systems that facillate function across different games |
18:09 |
FeXoR |
Thanks a lot rubenwardy! |
18:09 |
specing |
FeXoR: you are confusing yourself, I never said that it supports only one version. I said that it ensures that players have the correct one for the match that they want to play. |
18:09 |
FeXoR |
You sound like you know what you are doing ;) |
18:09 |
Warr1024 |
I suppose in a way that's what we already have, though, i.e. MTG is just one game among many already... |
18:09 |
Warr1024 |
Making mods work across games, or at least having mod authors not limit themselves to a single game ecosystem, is really the way to go in the long run anyway |
18:09 |
FeXoR |
Oh, sorry. I got that wrong specing :/ |
18:10 |
FeXoR |
What is the most common game used? |
18:10 |
specing |
FeXoR: There are multiple other spring engine games played a lot, and many more actively developed. |
18:10 |
FeXoR |
second* |
18:10 |
specing |
FeXoR: I don't know, maybe open the actual lobby and check? |
18:10 |
FeXoR |
I do, at least once a week ;) |
18:11 |
specing |
and check the BA and BAR master servers as well |
18:11 |
FeXoR |
Yes, I did ;) |
18:11 |
FeXoR |
I like BA |
18:11 |
specing |
good, so you know which the second most played game is |
18:11 |
FeXoR |
But 10 years ago there where 100s of players every time of the day. |
18:12 |
FeXoR |
Now there are maybe 20? |
18:12 |
specing |
That is true |
18:13 |
FeXoR |
I meant the second popular minetest game. Sorry for the confusion. |
18:13 |
FeXoR |
(I just wanted to point out that some projects did basically desintegrate after decoupling the players to much from the core development) |
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18:18 |
specing |
That has been my observation as well |
18:18 |
specing |
I think that it happens once the engine/game developers stop playing the engine/game they develop |
18:19 |
FeXoR |
Yea, that may actually have more impact than the players moving on from a game that develops in a way they might not like :p |
18:20 |
FeXoR |
Mineclone2 and multicraft are both relatively commen according to the server list. |
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18:28 |
fedora117 |
@rubenwardy What's stopped you from forking and developing that fork all these years? If it really is better server admins would just install your game by default and work on top of that, right? |
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19:13 |
Lone_Wolf |
Quite a few of my mods have cross-game compat now. I'm also making an RPG game from scratch (Only borrowed `creative` from MTG), creating engine PRs for some of the things I don't want to work around. |
19:14 |
Lone_Wolf |
If I could I probably would have borrowed a bunch of nodes from MTG, but all the code is tied together with a pretty restrictive license on top of it. It would be nice if there were a well-organized MIT-licensed base I could take from and do whatever I want with |
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19:20 |
Extex |
Ok so I have a tool |
19:20 |
Extex |
And it needs to break a specific in like 5 seconds |
19:21 |
Extex |
It'll have a special group too |
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19:33 |
Extex |
Also please ping me when you answer |
19:34 |
sfan5 |
start a timer to break the tool in the inventory after it was used |
19:34 |
sfan5 |
you can set some key in the itemstack meta to prevent players from dropping it after use (thus avoiding destruction) |
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20:26 |
Exte |
Oof lag |
20:26 |
Exte |
sfan5: well I kinda wanted to use groups and tools |
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20:28 |
Extex |
Yay I'm Extex again lol |
20:47 |
sfan5 |
is there something preventing you from implementing that with groups/tools? |
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23:48 |
finnwww |
I'm not able to open Minetest on Crostini under Chrome OS. It just opens for a sec and then exits with the error "Quit message received". Anybody else have this problem? |
23:52 |
SoylentCow |
i have a question about minetest forums: when i select pms and try moving them into a different folder or do any other action like delete, it says: The submitted form was invalid. Try submitting again. |
23:53 |
SoylentCow |
i can move messages one by one from within the message though |
23:53 |
SoylentCow |
is that like a forum bug, or am i doing something wrong? |
23:56 |
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