| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
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| 00:02 |
trom_ |
what is special_tiles {}, advanced\optional ? |
| 00:07 |
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| 01:22 |
kurtzmusch |
anyone figured out what is the problem with the forum? |
| 01:22 |
VanessaE |
minetest staff are already on it |
| 01:23 |
VanessaE |
short answer: it's b0rk3d. |
| 01:23 |
robdrake |
did outside vandals bork it? |
| 01:23 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 01:23 |
robdrake |
k |
| 01:39 |
robdrake |
night all |
| 01:48 |
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| 03:04 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
hello, do you also have problem to display this website? https://forum.minetest.net/ |
| 03:05 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
I am waiting since several minutes |
| 03:06 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
"Connecting to forum.minetest.net..." |
| 03:06 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
in the status bar |
| 03:06 |
NathanS21_ |
Yes, the site is down right now. |
| 03:06 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
oh |
| 03:07 |
NathanS21_ |
Has been most of the day. |
| 03:07 |
NathanS21_ |
admins know about it, probably working on it. |
| 03:15 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
oh yes, it is written in the topic of this channel "Forums and wikis are down, patience please" |
| 03:15 |
YuGiOhJCJ |
sorry, I had to read that before asking |
| 03:33 |
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| 05:16 |
oil_boi |
Is the forum down |
| 05:28 |
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| 07:10 |
trom_ |
what is emerged_area() ? |
| 07:18 |
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| 08:53 |
ANAND |
trom_: Is this what you're referring to? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/e32a630937de69454c741e93979a7889fcddc7a9/doc/lua_api.txt#L3049 |
| 08:54 |
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| 08:54 |
trom_ |
ANAND: yes, but I still mess with it |
| 08:55 |
trom_ |
vm need more pictures ) |
| 08:58 |
ANAND |
If you're having issues with the return value, use print(dump(vm:get_emerged_area())) |
| 09:27 |
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| 12:22 |
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| 12:29 |
robdrake |
sorry to bother you all, but I need the names of the wooden shovel, wooden axe, and apple please |
| 12:30 |
robdrake |
*Itemstrings, I think is the term |
| 12:31 |
rubenwardy |
default:shovel_wood default:pick_wood default:apple |
| 12:31 |
ANAND |
default:axe_wood, not pick_wood :P |
| 12:32 |
rubenwardy |
oh, read question wrong |
| 12:32 |
robdrake |
thanks to you both |
| 12:32 |
robdrake |
and rubenwardy thank your for your online minetest modding book |
| 12:33 |
rubenwardy |
yw |
| 12:41 |
ANAND |
That book helped me a lot too when I first entered the Minetest modding scene |
| 12:44 |
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| 12:44 |
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| 12:45 |
robdrake |
working on server, then back to relearning lua |
| 12:46 |
robdrake |
then work on Yet Another Hostile Mobs Mod (YAHMM) |
| 12:52 |
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| 12:54 |
Niwla23 |
hello |
| 12:56 |
Niwla23 |
query %s |
| 12:57 |
robdrake |
typos fixed in the kit mod |
| 12:57 |
Niwla23 |
How to reset the window in hexchat? |
| 12:57 |
robdrake |
unfortunately you have to define the kits in init.lua |
| 12:58 |
robdrake |
idk, I may do a pull request and see if I can get them read from a directory |
| 12:58 |
robdrake |
in the future |
| 13:05 |
Niwla23 |
when will the forum be back???? |
| 13:09 |
rubenwardy |
read the topic |
| 13:09 |
rubenwardy |
"Forums and wikis are down, patience please" |
| 13:10 |
Niwla23 |
whats the problem with them? has the hoster server problems? |
| 13:24 |
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| 15:41 |
robdrake |
sorry to bug the channel again, I know defalut:apple is for the fruit, but was is the name of the apple tree sapling? I've tried default:apple_tree_sapling, and default:apple_sapling |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
default:sapling I think? |
| 15:42 |
robdrake |
let me see, and thank you |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
mtg's apple trees are just "default" trees with altered descriptions. |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
(peronally I always thought they were some kind of beech-apple hybrid :P ) |
| 15:43 |
robdrake |
yep VanessaE, thank you again |
| 15:43 |
VanessaE |
yw. |
| 15:44 |
VanessaE |
that reminds me, I'll need to add something to moretrees to fix the "default" tree descriptions, as moretrees has real apple trees, with proper size and with blossoms :) |
| 15:49 |
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| 16:19 |
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| 16:21 |
lllI1I |
> did outside vandals bork it? |
| 16:21 |
lllI1I |
who would do such a thing |
| 16:28 |
robdrake |
lllI1I: script kiddies, ie skiddos |
| 16:29 |
lllI1I |
why would they target minetest though |
| 16:29 |
robdrake |
idk |
| 16:29 |
robdrake |
it was just a question of mine, the problems with the forums and wikis weren't caused by script kiddies |
| 16:30 |
robdrake |
internal mistake, I guess |
| 16:30 |
robdrake |
or, hardware failure is another guess |
| 16:30 |
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| 16:31 |
lllI1I |
was expecting like a cabal of mojang's going around killing the comptetition |
| 16:32 |
lllI1I |
especially the good ones like minetest |
| 16:32 |
lllI1I |
glad to know that's not the case (this time) |
| 16:32 |
VanessaE |
but no, it has nothing to do with malicious parties. |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:34 |
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| 16:36 |
ShadMOrdre |
Any news regarding the forums? |
| 16:37 |
tacotexmex |
Though it seemingly has nothing to do with this specific outage, running phpBB in this decade means you’re kind of asking to be hacked. ;P |
| 16:37 |
sofar |
server just failed, nothing malicious |
| 16:37 |
sofar |
people are working to get it back online and restore it |
| 16:38 |
VanessaE |
sofar: well, unless the hosting provider counts as malicious, given the nature of the failure and their failure to anticipate and plan for it :) |
| 16:38 |
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| 16:46 |
lllI1I |
give the site to me I'll host it |
| 16:46 |
lllI1I |
in my basement |
| 16:50 |
* twoelk |
considers extending LAN to his basement |
| 16:51 |
lllI1I |
am in rural america tho so you'd have downtime still |
| 16:51 |
lllI1I |
the plus side being that when the power comes back on I just need to turn it back on |
| 16:51 |
clavi |
sofar: was it on a dedicated hardware box? |
| 16:51 |
lllI1I |
like go down and push button and it's back |
| 16:54 |
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| 17:04 |
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| 17:10 |
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| 17:12 |
p_gimeno |
does anyone know how to solve a circular dependency between farming_redo and stairs? |
| 17:12 |
p_gimeno |
2019-04-30 19:11:09: ERROR[Main]: mod "farming" has unsatisfied dependencies: "stairs" |
| 17:12 |
p_gimeno |
2019-04-30 19:11:09: ERROR[Main]: mod "stairs" has unsatisfied dependencies: "farming" |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
update both |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
make sure you're using the correct repo for farming redo |
| 17:15 |
p_gimeno |
thanks, looking |
| 17:17 |
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| 17:20 |
tacotexmex |
VanessaE: Are there any plans to migrate forum eventually? I’m thinking that the window is closing for the possibility of exporting data from phpBB into other newer software as phpBB is sunsetting. |
| 17:21 |
Fairion |
what would we migrate to? |
| 17:21 |
clavi |
please not discourse |
| 17:22 |
clavi |
anything but this bloated whitespace wasteland |
| 17:22 |
VanessaE |
the forum is broken right now, as to where and what it'll be migrated to, if anything new, idk. |
| 17:23 |
Fairion |
I would be happy to work on setting up new forums |
| 17:23 |
Fairion |
spectrum? |
| 17:24 |
Fairion |
flarum? https://vanillaforums.com/en/software/? |
| 17:24 |
clavi |
for the love of god something that works without 10 different javascripts |
| 17:25 |
sofar |
not the right time to make a decision (no problem discussing it, though) |
| 17:25 |
Fairion |
Sofar: What format would be better? |
| 17:26 |
p_gimeno |
MyBB FTW |
| 17:26 |
clavi |
tacotexmex: where did you read that phpBB is "sunsetting"? |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
Fairion: I'm just saying that with the forums down, the priority is bringing them back up first |
| 17:27 |
clavi |
agreed |
| 17:27 |
Fairion |
oh. true. |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
migrating to another forum software is not something anyone is going to sink time into :) |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
however, it's entirely OK to come up with a plan for the future that the community supports :) |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:28 |
nimbius |
minetest server is down |
| 17:28 |
nimbius |
again |
| 17:28 |
sofar |
especially if people can come up with a migration plan from phpbb to $future_forum_software |
| 17:28 |
nimbius |
is there a regular status update mailing list or something i can subscribe to? |
| 17:28 |
sofar |
nimbius: first, read irc logs, then decide whether repeating is useful :) |
| 17:28 |
nimbius |
sofar: thank you |
| 17:28 |
nimbius |
but ive no log of the channel im not in :( |
| 17:29 |
sofar |
read /topic |
| 17:29 |
clavi |
phpBB is actively developed fwiw https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb/graphs/commit-activity |
| 17:29 |
sofar |
read it .. slowly |
| 17:29 |
nimbius |
sofar: sorry. its bonkers frustrating trying to play this game without a wiki :( |
| 17:29 |
Fairion |
it wouldn't hurt to have a nicer looking forum, though |
| 17:30 |
nimbius |
Im sure good work is being done. |
| 17:30 |
nimbius |
is the wiki present on github? can i host it? |
| 17:30 |
clavi |
I'm sure you can style phpBB too |
| 17:31 |
Fairion |
you can. I don't know why we don't, but I can't seem to get phpbb working on my machine. |
| 17:31 |
Fairion |
So, I can't test it |
| 17:31 |
clavi |
probably because devs care more about code than how the forum looks |
| 17:31 |
clavi |
but sure, it could be improved |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:32 |
Fairion |
rubenwardy: There was some talk on discord a while ago about re-styling the forums. Does that still stand? |
| 17:33 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not able to make such a change |
| 17:33 |
rubenwardy |
and the only person who can is currently busy getting it back online |
| 17:33 |
Fairion |
oh. okay. |
| 17:33 |
clavi |
https://www.phpbb.com/styles/ |
| 17:35 |
clavi |
maybe another thing to think about in the future is reducing MT's bus factor |
| 17:35 |
clavi |
(how many people can get hit by a bus before the project fails) |
| 17:35 |
p_gimeno |
MyBB can import phpBB FWIW. And phpBB really really sucks. |
| 17:36 |
rubenwardy |
clavi: increasing it, hopefully |
| 17:36 |
clavi |
well, of course :D |
| 17:36 |
Fairion |
sucks how so? |
| 17:37 |
p_gimeno |
phpBB session handling kicks you out without a reason, it clobbers URLs with session keys, it does not allow ignoring threads, it doesn't allow (last time I checked) to configure custom BBcode to have more effects... it's just way, way out of date, and being actively developed does not solve that |
| 17:38 |
Fairion |
true |
| 17:38 |
Fairion |
it wouldn't hurt to migrate |
| 17:38 |
p_gimeno |
I've administered MyBB and it's a breeze |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
what about simple machiens? |
| 17:39 |
p_gimeno |
it perhaps may err on the side of having too many configuration options |
| 17:42 |
Fairion |
my issue with the current setup is that it looks very tacky. It makes minetest seem like a side-project and not a legit game. |
| 17:42 |
Fairion |
imho |
| 17:45 |
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| 17:45 |
VanessaE |
well we could always go back to punbb ;) |
| 17:45 |
* VanessaE |
hides |
| 17:46 |
Fairion |
I wasn't there back then... |
| 17:46 |
VanessaE |
it... was a strange time in minetest :P |
| 17:46 |
VanessaE |
I forget now why we moved to phpbb |
| 17:47 |
clavi |
maybe cause it's abandonware? |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE |
maybe. |
| 17:50 |
p_gimeno |
VanessaE: what's the current pipeworks repo? is it gitlab/VanessaE or github/minetest-mods? (sorry can't look it up in the forum) |
| 17:50 |
VanessaE |
gitlab. |
| 17:50 |
Fairion |
I feel like minetest development is so diplomatic that things move very slowly... |
| 17:51 |
kurtzmusch |
why are we considering moving? i dont really understand how something spontaneously breaks like this ... |
| 17:51 |
VanessaE |
p_gimeno: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks |
| 17:52 |
VanessaE |
kurtzmusch: well no one of authority said anything about migrating, but given the nature of the failure, .. eh, who knows what'll happen |
| 17:53 |
Fairion |
what's the best way to help with minetest-game? |
| 17:53 |
VanessaE |
fork and make PRs :) |
| 17:53 |
Fairion |
There are so many just sitting there- how do I know it'll even be merged? |
| 17:54 |
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| 17:54 |
Fairion |
19 |
| 17:54 |
kurtzmusch |
the best way is to create your own game from scratch lel |
| 17:55 |
p_gimeno |
VanessaE: thanks, it turns out pipeworks needs a dependency on screwdriver, it crashed on me when it wasn't available |
| 17:55 |
clavi |
there was a forum post that said you can help by testing the PRs yourself and giving feedback |
| 17:55 |
kurtzmusch |
there is no single vision of what mtg should be so theres not even a realable way to tell what whings will be merged |
| 17:55 |
p_gimeno |
VanessaE: I could submit a PR but right now I'm in the middle of configuring a server, could you? |
| 17:55 |
tacotexmex |
What kurtzmusch said |
| 17:56 |
kurtzmusch |
my spelling is deteriorating |
| 17:56 |
Fairion |
hmm. that's not good for development ;) |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE |
p_gimeno: you mean pipeworks needs the screwdriver in the depends.txt then? |
| 17:57 |
p_gimeno |
VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/blob/master/devices.lua#L167 |
| 17:57 |
p_gimeno |
yes |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE |
sure. |
| 17:57 |
p_gimeno |
thanks! |
| 17:57 |
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| 18:00 |
VanessaE |
done. |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:02 |
p_gimeno |
thanks. Also homedecor/itemframes calls the global, so I guess it should be listed as optional dependency. |
| 18:02 |
p_gimeno |
(sorry, I'm still going through the logs and finding stuff as I go) |
| 18:03 |
VanessaE |
I'll fiddle with that one later. |
| 18:04 |
p_gimeno |
ok, that was all. And thanks. |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:24 |
p_gimeno |
how do you set creative mode for a world without the UI? |
| 18:24 |
p_gimeno |
ah I think I see the answer, sorry. It's a setting in world.mt |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:55 |
nimbius |
is there a root-cause for the outage? |
| 18:56 |
clavi |
yes |
| 18:56 |
nimbius |
what was it? |
| 18:56 |
clavi |
there is a cause for everything in life |
| 18:56 |
clavi |
"server failure" |
| 18:56 |
nimbius |
the site is hosted on pages, or so i thought? |
| 18:57 |
clavi |
no |
| 18:57 |
nimbius |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io |
| 18:58 |
p_gimeno |
VanessaE: the hotbar mod has a couple of bugs, where should I send them? to dreambuilder, or is there an upstream somewhere? |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
what bugs? |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_hotbar |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
(note the mod name changed today) |
| 18:59 |
p_gimeno |
let me check the current version first to see if they're fixed... basically e.g. /hotbar 20 crashes |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
I fixed that bug already. |
| 18:59 |
clavi |
oh, so it is |
| 19:00 |
clavi |
looks like just the site code is on github |
| 19:00 |
clavi |
not actually hosted by github pages |
| 19:00 |
p_gimeno |
ah yes, it's fixed, thanks. The other problem is already fixed, namely a global that should be local. |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
nimbius: the main site is hosted on GitHub pages which is why it's still available |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
in other news: I've done a round of updates of my mods on contentdb, including publishing Dreambuilder there finally :) |
| 19:01 |
rubenwardy |
The outage is because the VPS service provider had a technical fault which corrupted the system |
| 19:01 |
clavi |
I see |
| 19:12 |
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| 19:22 |
nimbius |
rubenwardy: thank you for the clarification. |
| 19:23 |
nimbius |
will the content be made available for mirroring in the future? |
| 19:23 |
nimbius |
maybe a magnet link or something with the essentials would be nice |
| 19:24 |
rubenwardy |
we have weekly backups |
| 19:27 |
clavi |
that's good to hear |
| 19:27 |
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| 19:39 |
tacotexmex |
clavi: What forum software built with a modern stack doesn’t use JS? Do you know of one? |
| 19:40 |
clavi |
no, but I don't place too much value on what is considered "modern" at the moment |
| 19:41 |
clavi |
I'm not against JS entirely, just against overuse of it |
| 19:41 |
clavi |
like a site staying blank if you don't allow 3rd party JS |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
it's possible to have a fully-functional JS-based UI with only first-party resources |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
in fact, it's becoming the recommended approach in many cases |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
(if you don't pay for bandwidth, especially :P) |
| 19:45 |
sfan5 |
the question is whether the site should work without js |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
discourse is js based |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
I had the "pleasure" of using it |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
you can't even ctrl-f through a topic |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
the creators had the bright idea of redirecting you to their built in search |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
which of COURSE does not allow searching inside posts |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
a wild est31 appears! :) |
| 19:47 |
clavi |
yes, that's what these kinds of sites like to do |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
hello VanessaE |
| 19:47 |
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| 19:47 |
clavi |
hijacking your scroll function and adding a "better" scrolling "experience" is also a classic |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:49 |
est31 |
yes, another thing that discourse is doing |
| 19:50 |
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| 19:50 |
est31 |
they say it's modern but for me it's just broken in so many ways |
| 19:50 |
clavi |
"modern" sites also often have a "modern" design with means everything is white or at most a very faint shade of pastel |
| 19:50 |
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| 19:50 |
clavi |
no visual separation between elements |
| 19:51 |
clavi |
https://i.imgur.com/bZuyzQj.png |
| 19:51 |
clavi |
it's hard to tell where one post ends and the next one begins |
| 19:51 |
clavi |
they're separated by frickin 1px wide light-grey lines |
| 19:58 |
kurtzmusch |
imo js is only usefull for loading parts of a page async in response to something, everything else is bloat and css got covered. infinite scrolling is trash |
| 19:59 |
clavi |
oh man infinite scrolling |
| 19:59 |
clavi |
>don't know where on the page you are |
| 19:59 |
clavi |
>don't know how many items there are left |
| 19:59 |
clavi |
yes I love it /s |
| 19:59 |
kurtzmusch |
thats the most obscure, backwards design ever and it pops out everywhere |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
I really don't like infinite scrolling for stuff like that, it doesn't work |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
forums need deterministic paging |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
it's not a social media feed |
| 20:01 |
clavi |
agreed |
| 20:01 |
clavi |
it works for a twitter/mastodon feed |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
<3 mastodon |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
https://fosstodon.org/@rubenwardy and https://fosstodon.org/@Minetest btw |
| 20:03 |
tacotexmex |
Regarding possible forum software migration I’m not looking to start flamewars, stir up controversy or similar. I just notice that with a piece of software as old as phpBB comes as old problems (the weekly viagra phishing posts, the post once - subscribe forever feature, the absent mobile support, the ancient UX patterns). Knowing these common problems as a former phpBB admin myself (migrated 8 years ago), I know that |
| 20:03 |
tacotexmex |
the moderation can be much less daunting and user experience much improved with more recent software. The goal here is to aid MT staff in reducing workload and to increase community participation, nothing else. |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
some JS is good |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
i'm sure upgrading to a newer phpbb version would already help |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB uses some JS |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
that too |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
and themes make a load of difference |
| 20:04 |
rubenwardy |
just disabling that annoying message page would be good |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:04 |
tacotexmex |
sfan5: Why? It’s still built with principles and conventions from 15 yrs ago. |
| 20:04 |
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| 20:05 |
sfan5 |
maybe they fixed some annoyances in a newer version, who knows |
| 20:06 |
tacotexmex |
Even if they wanted to, they got their own (huge) technical debt against them. |
| 20:08 |
Niwla23 |
https://web.archive.org/web/20190321143231/https://forum.minetest.net/ |
| 20:10 |
clavi |
rubenwardy: thanks, didn't know MT had a fediverse presence |
| 20:10 |
tacotexmex |
And it’s more than a few annoyances imo, it’s equally the issue that web applications has gone through at least a few paradigms since phpBBs haydays. Users expect excellent, contemporary UX. |
| 20:11 |
Stormwynd |
Celeron55 said "I hate phpBB, I hope you do too. It's a ridiculous clusterfuck hallmark of everything that is wrong in the PHP culture." - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611&sid=3a3380825577626a7e94b2a6172f63d3 |
| 20:12 |
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| 20:12 |
rubenwardy |
lool |
| 20:12 |
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| 20:12 |
rubenwardy |
nice forum link |
| 20:12 |
Niwla23 |
lol, good to give a FORUM link if everythings down |
| 20:13 |
Niwla23 |
https://web.archive.org/web/20170704105527/https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611&sid=47de31b595687d4f021b3ea78bd125e9 |
| 20:13 |
Niwla23 |
this link works |
| 20:13 |
Niwla23 |
why are we using phpBB then? |
| 20:13 |
tacotexmex |
Stormwynd: Well, he said it best. ^_^ |
| 20:13 |
Stormwynd |
Ha, I copied it from @Niwala23's webarchive link but it converted it to a non-webarchive link |
| 20:14 |
clavi |
are other php-based boards better? |
| 20:14 |
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| 20:14 |
clavi |
I never ran a forum so I have no idea about their technical merits |
| 20:15 |
Niwla23 |
but the archive is just a static copy of the forum also search function does not work :( |
| 20:15 |
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| 20:15 |
Niwla23 |
phpBB takes 2 minutes to install for a noob like me if you have phpmyadmin |
| 20:15 |
clavi |
the only thing I notice is that php boards "just work" while js things annoy me |
| 20:16 |
Niwla23 |
whats about nodejs? |
| 20:16 |
Niwla23 |
i really like contentdb |
| 20:16 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB is Python/Flask |
| 20:16 |
Niwla23 |
oh, ok |
| 20:16 |
Niwla23 |
https://content.minetest.net/threads/43/ |
| 20:17 |
Niwla23 |
this looks nice |
| 20:17 |
tacotexmex |
clavi: what about non-php boards don’t ”just work” for you? |
| 20:18 |
Niwla23 |
a good forum software should be also mobile-first |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
PHP things tend to depend on one kind of setup |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
MySQL / Apache / etc |
| 20:18 |
clavi |
tacotexmex: they try to be too smart which makes them get in the way more often than not |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
whereas JS stuff may support differing databases and use better practices like migrations |
| 20:18 |
clavi |
see above for e.g. infinite scrolling |
| 20:18 |
clavi |
also JS boards and bad "modern" design seem to be inseparably linked |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
I guarantee that deploying Symphony would be worse than NodeJS apps |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
probably |
| 20:19 |
tacotexmex |
¯_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
you dropped this: \ |
| 20:19 |
Niwla23 |
https://www.woltlab.com/?l=2 |
| 20:20 |
Niwla23 |
is there something like this in open source? |
| 20:20 |
tacotexmex |
rubenwardy: thnx! \ |
| 20:23 |
Niwla23 |
https://tellform.com/ |
| 20:23 |
Niwla23 |
what do you think of this |
| 20:24 |
tacotexmex |
In the end, if a language or a software design convention is abandoned by the broader community that supports it, it will only be a matter of time until that project is on life support. So running a community forum for years takes some pragmatism. For instance, I may not even like Discourse, but since I know its business model (it’s still open source at the same time), the great and large community around it and its |
| 20:24 |
tacotexmex |
merits of stability and support, I’d bet on Discourse any day before putting my fate in the hands of one or two happy core developers with sparetime resources. |
| 20:27 |
clavi |
Niwla23: this must be some joke https://i.imgur.com/MuuHHwS.png |
| 20:27 |
lllI1I |
where is the lua API available not on the wiki |
| 20:28 |
clavi |
it's like they designed it to be hard to read on purpose |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
lllI1I: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
the reference |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
or https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
(this is official ^) |
| 20:30 |
lllI1I |
rubenwardy: big thanks |
| 20:32 |
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| 20:33 |
Niwla23 |
oh, foun it on alternatives page, thought it was the login lol |
| 20:35 |
Niwla23 |
clavi |
| 20:35 |
clavi |
yes |
| 20:36 |
Niwla23 |
just wanted to ping you for my above message |
| 20:36 |
clavi |
somebody must've confused form with forum |
| 20:37 |
Niwla23 |
like me xd |
| 20:37 |
clavi |
oh :D |
| 20:39 |
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| 20:40 |
BuckarooBanzai |
night all, good luck with the wiki/forum restore :D |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:41 |
lllI1I |
is time_from_last_punch only available in entities' on_punch functions or do nodes have a way to get that too |
| 20:43 |
lllI1I |
I've resorted to storing a timestamp in the metadata under "modname:last_hit_by" .. playername |
| 20:43 |
tacotexmex |
lllI1I: entity only, iirc. You have to add such feature to node defs yourself. |
| 20:43 |
lllI1I |
hoping there's an easier way |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:44 |
tacotexmex |
Your solution isn’t bad imo |
| 20:44 |
lllI1I |
so long as I mark it private so it's not updated constantly sending network packets |
| 20:45 |
Fairion |
niwla: what about vanillaforums or mybb |
| 20:46 |
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| 20:46 |
tacotexmex |
lllI1I: Ah, there’s that. How is it marked private? |
| 20:47 |
lllI1I |
meta:mark_as_private("modname:last_hit_by_" .. playername) |
| 20:48 |
lllI1I |
which is better I wonder, private or public by default |
| 20:48 |
tacotexmex |
Cool. I’m very unfamiliar with meta attributes. |
| 20:49 |
clavi |
Fairion: vanillaforums looks similar to discourse |
| 20:49 |
clavi |
I'm comparing some myself right now |
| 20:49 |
Fairion |
and therefore... |
| 20:49 |
Fairion |
I've been offline btw. I read up on irc.minetest.net |
| 20:50 |
clavi |
vanillaforums has pagination at least |
| 20:53 |
tacotexmex |
Fairion: MyBB is as old as phpBB +2 yrs. Vanilla seems healthier but is more of a B2B product nowadays. |
| 20:53 |
clavi |
yeah they advertise the paid version heavily on their site |
| 20:53 |
lllI1I |
I read that as beer-to-beer |
| 20:54 |
lllI1I |
I'm not familiar with that acronym |
| 20:54 |
Fairion |
business to business |
| 20:54 |
Fairion |
according to google :) |
| 20:54 |
tacotexmex |
clavi: Vanilla has little to do with Discourse imo. UX patterns differ quite alot. |
| 20:55 |
Fairion |
what's wrong with discourse again (not to start an argument) |
| 20:55 |
clavi |
- no pagination |
| 20:55 |
Fairion |
oh |
| 20:55 |
clavi |
- hard to navigate |
| 20:55 |
clavi |
- hijacks browser functions |
| 20:55 |
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| 20:56 |
tacotexmex |
… and it’s still 13 yrs old. |
| 20:56 |
clavi |
discourse? |
| 20:56 |
Fairion |
so? wine gets better with age, my friend |
| 20:56 |
Fairion |
;) |
| 20:57 |
tacotexmex |
If only :D |
| 20:57 |
lllI1I |
how old is WINE again |
| 20:57 |
tacotexmex |
It’s like 25? Good piece of software. |
| 20:57 |
Fairion |
oh, not that type of wine lol. Alcoholic wine |
| 20:58 |
tacotexmex |
Ancient |
| 20:59 |
tacotexmex |
clavi: Have you tried nodeBB? It’s snappy as hell. |
| 20:59 |
Fairion |
so, vanilla seems okay. The theme could be better but whatever. |
| 21:03 |
clavi |
tacotexmex: it is fast, but the design is awful |
| 21:04 |
tacotexmex |
If phpBB (2000) was generation 1 in forum software (it’s not, but let’s pretend), Vanilla (2006) was generation 2. For reference, iPhone was released in 2008 iirc. That means past generations wasn’t even built with mobile in mind as a core principle. Discourse and NodeBB is generation 3 but Discourse will survive much longer. |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:05 |
tacotexmex |
clavi: By design, do you really mean looks? |
| 21:05 |
clavi |
no |
| 21:05 |
Ruslan1 |
Anyone know what happened to Minetest forum |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
tacotexmex: I think mobile as core principle is the problem |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
it's putting mobile above desktop |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
and has tons of broken functionality |
| 21:07 |
est31 |
like hijacked browser functions |
| 21:07 |
est31 |
why do browsers allow web sites to hijack ctrl f anyway |
| 21:07 |
tacotexmex |
est31: NodeBB, Discourse, what? |
| 21:07 |
est31 |
Discourse |
| 21:07 |
Ruslan1 |
Anyone know what happened to Minetest forum |
| 21:07 |
Ruslan1 |
? |
| 21:07 |
est31 |
Ruslan1: they are down no idea why tho |
| 21:08 |
tacotexmex |
That’s one feature, which can be turned off. |
| 21:08 |
Ruslan1 |
Rip |
| 21:08 |
est31 |
tacotexmex: tell me how |
| 21:08 |
clavi |
tacotexmex: bethesda's version of nodeBB looks okay but it still suffers from being JS-based https://bethesda.net/community/ |
| 21:09 |
clavi |
e.g. the site changes as you scroll through it |
| 21:09 |
tacotexmex |
est31: I’ll look into it when I’m not on mobile. Mobile which btw surpassed desktop traffic worldwide last year. |
| 21:09 |
est31 |
sure, more people are on mobile than on desktop |
| 21:10 |
est31 |
still, desktop gives you a better experience |
| 21:10 |
est31 |
if I just compare the crappy keyboard that my phone has with any computer keyboard |
| 21:10 |
clavi |
some statistics from MT forums would be interesting |
| 21:10 |
clavi |
mobile vs. desktop |
| 21:12 |
tacotexmex |
”still, desktop gives you a better experience” Well yes, that will always be true with phpBB. ;) |
| 21:12 |
est31 |
it's true with most software |
| 21:12 |
Fairion |
^^ |
| 21:12 |
est31 |
except for software that makes the desktop suck as much as mobile |
| 21:12 |
Fairion |
nvm |
| 21:13 |
Fairion |
some software is really well built on mobile |
| 21:13 |
est31 |
and that isn't bad |
| 21:13 |
est31 |
but often "well built on mobile" means "sucks on desktop" |
| 21:13 |
tacotexmex |
That’s one opinion. |
| 21:13 |
est31 |
which discourse does |
| 21:13 |
Fairion |
cmon, it's not that bad |
| 21:13 |
est31 |
I loathe it every time I have to use it sorry |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
phpbb is much better |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
again, so many features failing to work |
| 21:14 |
Fairion |
I wish I could use markdown, though |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
I have a fast internet connection |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
I have a fast computer |
| 21:14 |
tacotexmex |
Desktop Discourse is pretty desktop-y imo, not like horrible Material Design based stuff. |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
I can just downloadthe entire thread |
| 21:14 |
est31 |
nooo discourse makes me scroll through manually |
| 21:15 |
Fairion |
oh, I can hear that as an issue |
| 21:15 |
Fairion |
nobody has said anything bad about vanilla. |
| 21:15 |
lllI1I |
we should make our own forum software |
| 21:15 |
lllI1I |
in minetest |
| 21:15 |
Fairion |
good luck |
| 21:15 |
clavi |
embed the forums in MT client |
| 21:16 |
lllI1I |
use formspecs for everything |
| 21:16 |
clavi |
someone got chromium to work inside it so why not :3 |
| 21:16 |
Fairion |
nightmare |
| 21:16 |
lllI1I |
that's impressive |
| 21:16 |
tacotexmex |
On the other hand, MT is a global community with people on quite sucky uplinks. Discourse app downloads to your browser once, then fetches only pure data. |
| 21:18 |
tacotexmex |
est31: what are those failing features? |
| 21:18 |
Fairion |
Personally, I think the theme is the biggest issue at hand. And the easiest to fix. |
| 21:19 |
est31 |
and phpbb doesnt do all of that it just sends data in the first place |
| 21:20 |
tacotexmex |
The theme is the least of an issue, it’s quite ok. A theme change doesn’t fix Viagra spam or lifetime thread subscriptions. |
| 21:20 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: I can't see how deploying a Symfony app would be worse than Node.js |
| 21:20 |
Fairion |
a core dev has been spotted! |
| 21:21 |
clavi |
couldn't the spam be easily fixed by adding a (self-hosted!) captcha on registration? |
| 21:21 |
tacotexmex |
est31: phpBB doesn’t cache itself as an application in your browser, it needs to send the whole page each load. |
| 21:22 |
est31 |
and the whole page is not a big fat app |
| 21:22 |
est31 |
I dont get how you sell that as an advantage of discourse |
| 21:22 |
est31 |
it's in fact a big disadvantage |
| 21:22 |
tacotexmex |
Sure, yeah. |
| 21:22 |
est31 |
forum software doesn't need to be an "app". It can just be html made on the server side sent to clients |
| 21:23 |
est31 |
it's not live chat |
| 21:23 |
tacotexmex |
I agree, it doesn’t have to. |
| 21:25 |
tacotexmex |
In the case of the MT forum bandwidth can’t be that big of an issue either. |
| 21:25 |
est31 |
and every get request to discourse actually DOES send the entire page to clients |
| 21:25 |
est31 |
it's not a single page application |
| 21:25 |
est31 |
so it is doing strictly more than phpbb |
| 21:26 |
tacotexmex |
Higher bandwidth then phpBB then? |
| 21:26 |
est31 |
probably yeah |
| 21:26 |
est31 |
but I'm too tired now to do a fine grained comparison |
| 21:26 |
est31 |
gotta go to bed |
| 21:26 |
Fairion |
Calinou: Can we change the phpBB theme to something more modern once the forums are back? I can't see why it would hurt, and it would look more legit. Additionally, I don't believe that it is too difficult. |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
I don't have control over it, also, there aren't a whole lot of good/modern and free phpBB themes out there |
| 21:27 |
Calinou |
the closest I know is http://comboot.io/ |
| 21:27 |
Fairion |
I found one, hold on |
| 21:28 |
Fairion |
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/style/digi/demo/3.2# |
| 21:28 |
clavi |
maybe updating phpbb also helps if the new version is supposedly more responsive as someone said |
| 21:28 |
clavi |
Fairion: modern site design that doesn't require JS for the navbar? |
| 21:29 |
clavi |
what is this sorcery |
| 21:29 |
clavi |
:) |
| 21:29 |
tacotexmex |
est31: ”Discourse is essentially a SPA (see http://try.discourse.org/) and designed to be public-facing. It does a good job at providing a very bare, lightweight interface for people with JavaScript disabled and, I'm assuming, for web crawlers.” |
| 21:29 |
Fairion |
oh, comboot is so relieving |
| 21:29 |
Fairion |
I think I'm in love |
| 21:30 |
rubenwardy |
My experience of symphony was pretty painful |
| 21:30 |
tacotexmex |
<est31 "probably yeah"> est31: Alright, g’night! |
| 21:30 |
Fairion |
"I don't have control over it" who does? |
| 21:30 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: version 4 is pretty alright in my experience |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
Fairion: that's not "modern" in my book :P |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
it spans the whole display, which means it's way too wide on large monitors like mine |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
(2560×1440) |
| 21:31 |
Fairion |
it's better than what we have now... |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
the current forum.minetest.net theme does it better |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
it limits itself to a reasonable width |
| 21:32 |
tacotexmex |
Agreed. Also, you can’t make a donkey into a horse. |
| 21:32 |
Fairion |
The current theme looks outdated to me |
| 21:33 |
Fairion |
I agree that digi isn't good. Comboot is better. the current theme is better than comboot? |
| 21:33 |
tacotexmex |
It’s the platform that’s outdated. Believe me, I’ve had my fair share of trying to refresh a phpBB instance, it’s like putting makeup on a pig. |
| 21:35 |
Fairion |
tacotexmex: One issue at a time |
| 21:37 |
lllI1I |
I haven't used the forums much but the theme was okay in my IMO from what I can remember |
| 21:38 |
tacotexmex |
In this case, no, why bother. C55 already hate phpBB so why pester him with a request that would only confuse users while not bringing any new or improved actual forum features. |
| 21:39 |
Fairion |
oh. look is my main concern. changing the software would fix that, I think. If he's convinced, why not just do it? |
| 21:39 |
Fairion |
"forum.minetest.netceleron55ThemeContact a moderator for concerns about content (Use "report this post" if possible)" |
| 21:39 |
Fairion |
(from minetest.net/get_involved) |
| 21:43 |
tacotexmex |
Structure, design patterns and extensibility are mine. :) |
| 21:43 |
Fairion |
I gtg |
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| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
minetest.net is dead :( |
| 22:22 |
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Warmute joined #minetest |
| 22:23 |
twoelk |
allready for more than a day it seems |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
the website seems to load here |
| 22:24 |
Warmute |
nope not in here, hmm |
| 22:26 |
rubenwardy |
Wuzzy: the VPS service provider had a technical fault which corrupted the system |
| 22:26 |
Wuzzy |
omg |
| 22:26 |
rubenwardy |
the main website is still online because it's on Github pages |
| 22:26 |
rubenwardy |
the server list and CDB are still online because they're hosted be sfan and me |
| 22:27 |
Wuzzy |
nope. can't connect to minetest.net |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
there are backups |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
minetest.net loads here, probably a DNS issue |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
make sure you use www.minetest.net |
| 22:27 |
Wuzzy |
-_- lol ok haha |
| 22:27 |
Wuzzy |
yeah the www. works |
| 22:28 |
rubenwardy |
c55 is in the process of setting up the machine again, should be online again within a few days |
| 22:28 |
Warmute |
protocol version mismatch. server supports protocol versions between 24 and 35 we only support version 37 |
| 22:28 |
Warmute |
? |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
Warmute: server is out of date |
| 22:29 |
Warmute |
surprise |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
you can install a 0.4.x client alongside your 5.0 client |
| 22:29 |
Warmute |
that kid was never the brightest bulb in the box |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
or pester the server to update |
| 22:29 |
Warmute |
nah it's all g |
| 22:30 |
Ruslan1 |
Hi rubenwardy |
| 22:30 |
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| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
hey Ruslan1 |
| 22:31 |
Ruslan1 |
Do you know what happened to Minetest forum |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
Ruslan1: read the chat |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
I said it 3 minutes ago |
| 22:32 |
Ruslan1 |
Will Minetest forum come back |
| 22:33 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 22:36 |
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| 22:44 |
lllI1I |
does sound_play have to be called once for each player to which the sound is meant to be played or will a table do |
| 22:45 |
lllI1I |
e.g. a team alert |
| 22:53 |
sofar |
the spec is complete |
| 22:54 |
sofar |
you can play in a location, or to a specific player in a location, or to all players (I think) |
| 22:54 |
sofar |
you can't play sounds to 3 players in one call |
| 22:54 |
sofar |
you'd have to call it 3x |
| 22:57 |
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| 22:59 |
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bhree joined #minetest |
| 23:12 |
lllI1I |
thanks I figured |
| 23:22 |
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| 23:23 |
makayabou |
|
| 23:25 |
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| 23:26 |
robdrake |
anyone know what layer More Ores, I think, zinc can be found, or a website with the answer? |
| 23:26 |
makayabou |
Please tell me if I understood well: I want to change all nodes in an area of the map to is_ground_content = true. It is better not use VoxelManip as 1/ because I have to call minetest.swap_node on each node i won't gain speed with VoxelManip , 2/ I will modify not only the nodes inside my area, but also nodes around area but inside VoxelManip . Right ? |
| 23:28 |
makayabou |
robdrake: you mean at what depth you can find zinc? |
| 23:28 |
robdrake |
yes please |
| 23:28 |
robdrake |
checking the more ores github repository |
| 23:29 |
makayabou |
yes |
| 23:29 |
robdrake |
no luck |
| 23:31 |
makayabou |
im looking into it too |
| 23:31 |
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| 23:32 |
robdrake |
my players are also asking me |
| 23:34 |
makayabou |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreores/blob/master/_config.txt |
| 23:34 |
makayabou |
not all the answer though |
| 23:35 |
makayabou |
zinc is not in moreores but in technic |
| 23:35 |
robdrake |
oh technic |
| 23:35 |
makayabou |
!mod technic |
| 23:35 |
MinetestBot |
makayabou: Technic [technic] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2538 |
| 23:36 |
makayabou |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic |
| 23:37 |
makayabou |
in oregen.lua, l.21 & l.81 |
| 23:37 |
makayabou |
/technic_worldgen/oregen.lua |
| 23:39 |
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| 23:40 |
robdrake |
I looked at technic/manual.md |
| 23:40 |
robdrake |
thank you for the technic hint |
| 23:40 |
makayabou |
you're welcome |
| 23:58 |
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