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| 01:55 |
MinetestBot |
[git] 12Me21 -> minetest/minetest_game: Beds: Make on_rotate function check new param2 instead of rotation mode 14cc07b https://git.io/fhHmJ (2019-02-08T01:53:55Z) |
| 02:02 |
BakerPrime |
Where can I get 5.0.0? Do I have to manually compile it? |
| 02:04 |
VanessaE |
Official RC1: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=22078 -- daily builds: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3837 (Linux) or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17439 (Windows) |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
(dailies would be better, rc1 has a couple of showstoppers.. |
| 02:05 |
VanessaE |
) |
| 02:06 |
BakerPrime |
VanessaE: Ah, alright. I'll be on in a bit. ;) |
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| 02:33 |
BakerPrime |
@VanessaE: Actually, I won't be on tonight.... Ugh. I have like 6 different "Minetest"s installed under basically the same name. So I need to figure it out, and I'm too tired to figure it out today. |
| 02:34 |
BakerPrime |
s/today/tonight |
| 02:45 |
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| 03:37 |
Xiong |
VanessaE o/ |
| 03:38 |
VanessaE |
hi. |
| 04:00 |
Xiong |
You weighed in on https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/480 and I agree with you. |
| 04:00 |
Xiong |
Sorry VanessaE; didn't realize I'd been afk so long. |
| 04:02 |
Xiong |
I also agree with FaceDeer that it's a bigger issue than moreores... but that's how he opened the issue. |
| 04:03 |
Xiong |
What now? I feel we should open a new issue with a broader statement and seek solutions. But I don't like to derail an existing discussion, either. |
| 04:04 |
VanessaE |
*shrug* I have no further opinion. |
| 04:04 |
Xiong |
About any of it? |
| 04:04 |
VanessaE |
yeah. |
| 04:05 |
Xiong |
Sorry to hear that. You've been a major driver. |
| 04:05 |
Xiong |
Is techic pizzled then? |
| 04:05 |
VanessaE |
I don't maintain technic anyway, and really don't have a whole lot of interest in it anymore. |
| 04:07 |
Xiong |
Sorry to contradict but you have the last commit on technic and the first in a long while. If you bail, the thing may stall. |
| 04:07 |
VanessaE |
*shrug* my commits are just minor stuff here and there. |
| 04:08 |
Xiong |
Um... that's not to strap you to the desk. I just have a lot stuff rattling around in my head. Not sure which direction to take. |
| 04:09 |
VanessaE |
code it up, make PR's, and see what sticks? |
| 04:10 |
Xiong |
I've patched two issues. One PR was sneered at. One patch... I dunno if there's much point, if the technic crew is dead. |
| 04:12 |
Xiong |
Again, not trying to draft you into a job. I would like to know where you think it's at. That will influence my next moves heavily. |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
well I'll say this much: there's nothing wrong with depending on moreores. FaceDeer is disregarding creative mode. |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
and indeed moreores provides almost nothing useful to creative, while technic has at least some stuff. |
| 04:14 |
Xiong |
Well I share that bias. I only use it for testing. I just don't get it. I can respect players who want it but they have to say what they need. |
| 04:16 |
Xiong |
I also don't see the value in the war games. I think PvP should be a distinct mode. But again, I accept there are other views. |
| 04:17 |
Xiong |
I've taken flak for defending home decor. Truly I use few of its features but I don't want to play without it. |
| 04:19 |
Xiong |
Technic is pretty much all about resource extraction. So erm, dunno how it helps the "creative" player. Does anyone even mine? |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
some do, oddly enough, but technic has a small collection of nodes that are useful for just building |
| 04:20 |
Xiong |
Let me step away from technic a mo. |
| 04:20 |
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| 04:20 |
Xiong |
What do you, VanessaE, want from mt? |
| 04:20 |
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| 04:21 |
VanessaE |
as gameplay goes, I have no specific wants. |
| 04:21 |
VanessaE |
as the engine goes, performance. especially video. |
| 04:22 |
VanessaE |
my players can't make up their minds just what they want. |
| 04:22 |
Xiong |
Hm. |
| 04:22 |
VanessaE |
"you've got 300 million people asking for something different. voice of the people, my hiney." |
| 04:23 |
Xiong |
Well. Didn't ask what they want. ;) |
| 04:23 |
VanessaE |
(botched quote from "My Fellow Americans") |
| 04:26 |
Xiong |
Way I see it, you're MT's MVP. There's not much use, long term, in my cranking out code if it doesn't fit in anyone else's plans. And obviously the technic team is pizzled... plus technic itself is larded with issues. I think I know a couple of ways to address them but not sure if I should. |
| 04:26 |
VanessaE |
wat no |
| 04:26 |
Xiong |
No wat? |
| 04:26 |
VanessaE |
I ain't no MVP |
| 04:27 |
Xiong |
Haha. |
| 04:28 |
Xiong |
You and I disagree on some things. But that's okay. I have the benefit of perspective, returning to mt after a five-year break. Nobody else has done as much as VanessaE. |
| 04:29 |
Xiong |
You have a talent for work, not always glamorous, but solid, dependable, even beautiful. Don't sell short. |
| 04:30 |
VanessaE |
well thanks for the kind words :) but really, I'm a minor player these days |
| 04:31 |
Xiong |
I might be wrong but I see a lot of stuff started by others, which might have stalled half-baked. You took these mods in and made them great. Don't sell short. |
| 04:31 |
VanessaE |
as minetest goes, I'm content to just run my servers and bitch at the core devs when some engine fault disturbs my players :) |
| 04:32 |
Xiong |
You said yourself you were interested now in core engine issues. That doesn't erase the great progress you've made on mods. Without mods, the engine is useless to players. |
| 04:34 |
Xiong |
Let me... urm... step back.and just say frankly how mt looks to me. Eh? |
| 04:36 |
Xiong |
The game is still a test, after all these years. All manner of playability issues keep getting kicked down the road. I'd like to work toward a "mint" version, with serious user-facing improvements, and see that things work well. |
| 04:40 |
Xiong |
I'm not sure the modular system approach has long legs in this context. I take my cue from your Dreambuilder modpack. It may be time to settle on a number of mods, sweep them into a game, and make them work together solidly. The mod interface can still be open but the distribution is limited. The distributed engine should flag additional mods. |
| 04:43 |
Xiong |
I'm especially disturbed at the amount of babysitting currently imposed on servops. There's a hard rain of bad actors parachuting into servers and terrorizing players; and it's either servops who abandon responsibility, exercise it (arbitrarily) as best they can part time, or hire ingame cops. |
| 04:44 |
Xiong |
You may see less of that in creative, dunno. |
| 04:45 |
Xiong |
You're not running 5.0.0 yet, are you, VanessaE? |
| 04:45 |
VanessaE |
I am. |
| 04:45 |
Xiong |
Well then. I'll have to stop in. |
| 04:48 |
Xiong |
Currently I'm just patching stuff to suit myself and singleplayering. That's not only boring play; it's pointless coding. I don't expect anyone to send me Giants tickets but if nobody uses the stuff, I haven't done much good. |
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| 07:58 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Limit sign length to 512 (~6 lines of 80 char or so). 6b2887e https://git.io/fhH3B (2019-02-08T07:57:42Z) |
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| 10:12 |
* norkle |
sips whiskey. |
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| 16:26 |
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| 16:27 |
JDCodeIt |
Hi All, Modding question - timers were introduced somewhat recently, but lots of mods still use the less efficient ABM method. Is conversion to timers worth it to avoid the dreaded warning abm's took more than 200ms? |
| 16:28 |
rubenwardy |
It depends on the context |
| 16:28 |
rubenwardy |
ABMs aren't necessarily less efficient |
| 16:29 |
rubenwardy |
They're good for grass, for example |
| 16:29 |
rubenwardy |
~book abm |
| 16:29 |
JDCodeIt |
Right - group triggers |
| 16:29 |
cheapie |
The only server I see that routinely throws those warnings is one with technic... do you have some heavy mod installed that's causing that? |
| 16:29 |
rubenwardy |
!book abm |
| 16:29 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Node Timers and ABMs - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/timers.html |
| 16:29 |
JDCodeIt |
I was going to turn on profiler, but I had some crashes with that on, so reluctant. |
| 16:30 |
JDCodeIt |
When profiler was running - moretrees seemed to be the culprit |
| 16:30 |
cheapie |
Well, better go complain at VanessaE then. I think that's one of hers :P |
| 16:31 |
JDCodeIt |
I've gone through each ABM and increased the interval to a different prime number to avoid all triggering in the same second, but still some warnings with just 8-10 users |
| 16:32 |
JDCodeIt |
...but I like the trees |
| 16:33 |
cheapie |
Why not turn the profiler on to collect some data on which mod is the problem, and if it crashes, collect information on what made it crash? |
| 16:33 |
JDCodeIt |
yes, probably have to go there... |
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| 17:45 |
Xiong |
0831 <JDCodeIt> I've gone through each ABM and increased th e interval to a different prime number... -- Would you kindly make your patch public? Some might ask for a PR but I'm indifferent. I would like to see what you've done. |
| 17:55 |
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| 18:56 |
JDCodeIt |
@Xiong - simply testing if this has any effect on the frequency of the abm's took more than 200ms message, changed interval to a longer one and a prime number such as 17 instead of say 1, which was the number provided in the mod source. |
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| 19:26 |
JDCodeIt |
Issue #8197 posted regarding the crash inside the profiler |
| 19:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8197 -- Crash while bringing up formspec on entity click while running profiler |
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| 21:45 |
Wuzzy |
hey, is there a way to make all warnings show up in the chat? something like a setting? |
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| 21:49 |
Wuzzy |
as a game dev, i find these warnings very important, especially the "undeclared global" warning almost always points to a bug |
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| 22:06 |
Xiong |
Isn't debug.txt enough? You can increase the log level to truly routine events. |
| 22:07 |
Xiong |
Tail it into a filter of your choice, maybe even trigger a bell. |
| 22:08 |
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| 22:09 |
entuland |
you can also open the game with --console param and a shell with the log should show up along with the game window |
| 22:21 |
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| 22:24 |
hecks |
Raybox as of now https://a.uguu.se/xsGyivGkdKiu_screenshot_20190208_232200.png |
| 22:25 |
hecks |
https://a.uguu.se/KB50e8wmr5Bp_screenshot_20190208_232212.png |
| 22:28 |
swift110 |
hey all |
| 22:34 |
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| 22:41 |
Wuzzy |
so the answer is "no"... |
| 22:41 |
Wuzzy |
sigh. need to hack something together then, i guess :( |
| 22:50 |
Xiong |
To clarify, I can't answer yes or no. I don't know. I just suggested a solution that appeals to me. |
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