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IRC log for #minetest, 2019-01-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 hecks joined #minetest
00:19 MinetestBot hecks: Jan-25 22:28 UTC <paramat> i think nametags are text only, anything else you've seen are likely attached entities
00:21 paramat added some comments
00:22 hecks Who needs farmap when you can just write a raytracer in texstrings https://a.uguu.se/o4JLcU5aDMt4_horizon.png
00:25 hecks This renders the actual heightmap as seen by the mapgen and correctly "predicts" surrounding terrain
00:27 paramat !
00:28 hecks I'll ask again, are old textures ever garbage collected?
00:28 paramat does a distant area need to be conventionally generated first to create this farmap?
00:29 paramat not sure
00:29 hecks No, this evaluates the perlin noise used by the mapgen
00:29 hecks It's not much more intensive than a sign with text that usual text mods do, and I can already think of dozens of ways to optimize it; my current implementation is super naive
00:30 hecks all lua of course
00:31 hecks Bandwidth issue is already solved by the fact that a texstring is a form of procedural texture compression, a poor man's Substance if you will
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00:31 hecks Update frequency; once every 10 seconds looks great already and you can spread the rendering over a coroutine
00:32 hecks Whether or not the client is smart enough to discard old skybox textures is my only concern at the moment
00:32 hecks That, and having to port bits of the mapgen to lua; I'm focusing solely on v7 and other mapgens would need separate mirror implementations
00:32 Fixer interesting
00:34 hecks The renderer currently simply samples a circle of height values around the player, and renders it to a skybox, correcting for skybox projection
00:34 hecks Making it an actual raymarcher that uses depth and height is what I'll try next
00:35 paramat wow impressive
00:36 hecks somewhat related https://a.uguu.se/UiprWMQhDqDS_msg.png
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06:17 hecks https://a.uguu.se/Cp1eH4z5DtrX_marched.png
06:20 hecks Accuracy still needs work but it looks plausibly like v7's output
06:21 hecks Can't correlate distant features to actual map geometry though, perhaps the seed is off
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06:48 hecks https://a.uguu.se/dcfODyvgkJmw_farmap3.png
07:05 hecks https://a.uguu.se/IBFPPJc2TVDW_farmap4.png
07:08 sofar you're doing it in lua, right?
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07:44 hecks yes
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07:45 hecks Now this is horse shit; the mapgen is using this magical persistence_map and I get no api to emulate it
08:12 hecks now I'm making it render realtime for debugging https://a.uguu.se/QWybPg2KiOTQ_realtime.gif
08:15 hecks it does feel like there is some correspondence between the skybox and the world, maybe the skybox is transposed in some way
08:17 VanessaE what... is that?
08:20 hecks Raytraced skybox
08:20 VanessaE neat *snaps photo*
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11:21 MinetestBot marisag: Jan-09 16:41 UTC <Ruslan1> hi
11:21 MinetestBot marisag: Jan-09 16:42 UTC <Ruslan1> hi
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12:19 Swedneck hecks I get connection untrusted
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12:31 hecks the guy's cert just expired lol
12:33 Swedneck you mean it expired literally just before i tried to view it?
12:33 Swedneck oh wow yeah
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13:14 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Rename 'Advanced Settings' button to 'All Settings' (#8131) 1511086 https://git.io/fhKHO (2019-01-26T13:14:06Z)
13:14 MinetestBot [git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest: Fix pkgmgr game install with RUN_IN_PLACE=0 (#8113) ded522b https://git.io/fhKH3 (2019-01-26T13:12:20Z)
13:18 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest_game: Beds: Fix formspec size, no prepend 2ff9058 https://git.io/fhKH8 (2019-01-26T13:00:01Z)
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13:43 dch impressive, most impressive
13:50 Krock hmm?
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14:08 dch just found minetest, amazing project!
14:09 dch quite excited about doing some stuff in lua with my kids, they are minecraft mad ;-)
14:09 rubenwardy did you find it through lars?
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14:19 Krock dch: feel free to ask here if there are problems/questions :D
14:20 dch Krock: first somebody has to tidy their room ;-)
14:20 dch and I'll read through the lua plugin stuff and have a crack
14:20 Krock !book
14:20 MinetestBot Krock: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/
14:21 dch yeah I already found that, another great community effort/contribution
14:22 rubenwardy coming soon to a book store ~~near you~~ online
14:24 Krock preorder now for just 99.⁹⁹€ per piece
14:24 rubenwardy *page
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14:36 dch lo
14:36 dch lol
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15:32 scr267 Is the infrastructure mod (https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4822) being maintained somewhere else?
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15:38 scr267 VanessaE: are you there by any chance?
15:46 VanessaE no, I'm right *here*
15:46 * VanessaE points at her chair
15:47 VanessaE idk about infrastructure, but cheapie maintains a fork/blend of infra and the original streets mod[pack]
15:47 VanessaE https://cheapiesystems.com/git/roads/
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16:10 scr267 VanessaE:  LOL, ok thanks
16:10 scr267 I ran into a bug with infra but managed to fix it... one of the callbacks was calling mesecon:node_swap and that doesn't exist anymore.
16:10 scr267 so I simply called minetest.node_swap instead.
16:10 scr267 and ajusted the params
16:11 scr267 Did you ever run into an issue with leaftest where the map coords don't match the minetest server coords by a few hundred meters?
16:12 VanessaE no
16:12 scr267 Oki doke...
16:12 scr267 I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong with some parameters I'm sending in.
16:12 scr267 Anyway as usual thank you for your help :)
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18:38 paramat !tell hecks waah i can't see your skybox screenshots: 'insecure connection'
18:38 MinetestBot paramat: I'll pass that on when hecks is around
18:54 sofar aguu.se's SSL certificate is bogus
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19:07 mbblp[m] can somebody repost the screenshot of the raytracing shader?
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19:28 MinetestBot [git] srifqi -> minetest/minetest: Add setting to disable confirmation on new player registration (#8102) 9126e17 https://git.io/fh6ej (2019-01-26T19:26:37Z)
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20:07 pitriss Hi all.. Simply question.. Are there plans to get Minetest working on Xbox one? I mean not in developer mode. There is section in microsoft store for independent developers and eg froggato made it there..
20:11 sofar plans no, desires yes
20:14 pitriss Thats kinda pity.. As MT made it to Android, wheres no sane controls available, but no xbox one where is more options for sane controls (gamepad isn obvious, but theres possibility to use even mouse/keyboard combo also)
20:17 Krock isn't the xbox running some kind of embedded WIndows?
20:18 Krock your nickname sounds familiar. did you play on the landrush server back on 2013 by any chance?
20:18 pitriss zeah it should as it have normal AMD CPU and so on.. so architecture is the same as PC, format of executables might be different
20:18 pitriss yes I did..:)
20:18 pitriss But LR was empty after reborn.. :)
20:19 Krock same instruction set, same OS. if you can get a binary there to launch it should work quite well (given the controls are supported)
20:19 Krock indeed. it abandoned, which is quite sad
20:19 pitriss it will be not so easy.. As normally you need to pay to access developers mode..:)
20:19 Krock I went there a few times to tidy my ugly stone house into a wooden build
20:20 Krock meh. flash linux on top of it
20:21 pitriss I'm still linux user, unix admin and so on.. But I was tired of fiddling with wine/PoL constantly to play old games..
20:21 pitriss So I switched to Xbox for games and kept my desktop clean..
20:22 rubenwardy pitriss: Android is a much more open platform than XBox one
20:22 rubenwardy it's only £17 to get a dev account, and anyone can make apps without the play store anyway
20:23 pitriss I didn't did any research but theres part of MS store full of small games for free..
20:24 pitriss So I guess theres posibility to get MT there too.. It would be wonderfull especially if it will incorporate gamepad control as MC did..:)
20:26 Swedneck pitriss: fwiw lutris exists now
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20:29 pitriss Swedneck: lutris for xbox one?:)
20:29 Swedneck ofc
20:29 Swedneck they've yet to port it to linux however :P
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22:36 MinetestBot hecks: Jan-26 18:38 UTC <paramat> waah i can't see your skybox screenshots: 'insecure connection'
22:37 Swedneck is that a minetest <> irc bridge?
22:39 sfan5 nope
22:40 Swedneck where's that message from then
22:42 sfan5 the message was left by param​at earlier when the recipient was offline
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22:42 sfan5 MinetestBot "replays" the message when that user comes online
22:43 Swedneck huh
22:43 Swedneck irc is so weird :P
22:45 Taoki Is there any way to make a node absorb flowing liquid falling on top of it? So if water is flowing over it, that water does not spill past.
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22:47 paramat erm, how about an airlike node above the absorber with 'on flood' set to remove the water?
22:47 paramat (or somehting like that)
22:49 hecks that's a shitty hack; what if someone builds to this fake air and then removes the node
22:50 Argyle77 Sup? Is it rude for a random stranger to make pull requests on git repositories out of the blue for crash fixes, mod integration, behavioral changes, etc?
22:50 hecks It's not rude, just prepare for bureaucracy
22:51 hecks crash fixes seem like a no brainer
22:51 rubenwardy Argyle77: sounds good
22:53 hecks oh right, I came here to ask; minetest.get_perlin() returns nil no matter what I feed it
22:53 hecks the PerlinNoise constructor works but doesn't give me world specific noise
22:54 hecks and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to "add" world seed to a setting seed inside lua, it doesn't feel like just +ing it will do
22:54 Argyle77 Also, like if it was from a total noob who didn't really actually understand the engine yet and had never even tried to make a "pull request?" before?
22:56 hecks There's not much in the engine to understand; also PRs exist just for this
22:56 hecks if there's something wrong with your code, someone will point it out
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22:57 Taoki Yeah, fake air isn't the best or simplest approach. Can do without if there's no better one, just that my drain nodes won't actually work :P
22:57 Taoki Could be a good idea for a feature perhaps. A node parameter which when true, stops any neighboring liquid nodes from spilling.
22:58 Taoki It sounds technically easy to implement: If the flowing liquid detects such a neighbor, it just stops spreading.
22:58 Argyle77 ok thanks.
23:00 hecks Modifying liquid simulation is harder than it sounds
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23:01 Taoki It's definitely one of the more complex parts
23:02 hecks It's not that complicated, it's just one of those closed, optimized "job systems" and adding things to it is a pain
23:09 Xiong Sorry, I just dropped in. Recap?
23:13 paramat perlin noise: there's 2 different APIs, one auto-adds the world seed
23:15 paramat the airlike node could be made unreplaceable. or, make the liquid absorber itself floodable but does not remove itself in the on flood function, i think that might be possible
23:16 paramat recap - see logs
23:16 Xiong Deep discussion?
23:18 hecks paramat: I know there's two APIs, it's just that the "right" one gives me nil, flips me off and takes a dump in my chimney
23:19 Xiong I'd like a use case for this... invisible sponge.
23:20 paramat ok i'll look at a code paste
23:20 hecks Xiong: drains
23:21 Xiong IMO the basic function... when I need it... is a basin. Flowing water enters and vanishes. At any rate, the basin never overflows.
23:23 hecks https://pastebin.com/kdArMBwD
23:23 Xiong This is my approach to technic hydropower plants. Whatever runs off the turbines falls into a shallow basin. I prefer using half-height slabs, looks better. What's a different use?
23:23 hecks Minetest water never overflows anyway
23:25 Xiong Well. If there's no catchment it can make a fair-size mess.
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23:25 Xiong Anyway hecks I agree that v7 is less than perfect. But I like it overall.
23:25 hecks It wouldn't be such a mess if water could wash dirt out and form rivers, I'd rather see that
23:26 hecks I have no problems with v7, what is shitty is my approximation of it
23:26 Xiong Well I'll let the sponge slide.
23:27 Xiong I have problems with v7: two, maybe three.
23:28 Xiong (1) No rubber trees. Go ahead and blame both moretrees and technic if you like. Still no fix in sight.
23:28 Xiong (2) No sulfur.
23:28 hecks That's not a mapgen issue, that's mod issues
23:29 hecks Blame mods for not registering ores and decos correctly
23:29 paramat yup
23:29 hecks I do encounter rubber trees in "fresh" worlds; the trick is to enable all mods BEFORE you generate the map
23:29 Xiong (3?) Little lava. Previous mapgens excessive lava but the v7 backlash goes too far... if no sulfur.
23:29 paramat looking at paste
23:29 rubenwardy code: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic_worldgen/rubber.lua
23:30 hecks there's hardly anything to look at in the paste; just the fact that I invoke get_perlin and get jack all for it
23:32 Xiong If it's an easy fix... where is it? Rubber and sulfur in v6 so... it's always easy to point a finger. When two blocks of code meet and don't match, there's always finger pointing. I have yet to see a convincing general argument.
23:33 rubenwardy sure enable_rubber_tree_generation is enabled?
23:33 Xiong rubenwardy please, I've seen that file. What have I been missing?
23:33 rubenwardy wait
23:33 rubenwardy do you have moretrees installed?
23:33 Xiong I do.
23:33 rubenwardy yeah, the problem is moretrees
23:34 rubenwardy moretrees uses biome_lib, which does not support v7
23:34 rubenwardy technic has a correct way to spawn the trees when moretrees isn't installed
23:34 Xiong I am considering tackling the rubber-v7 issue; in which case I'll be exercising the technic fallback you linked.
23:35 hecks yes, technic works
23:35 Xiong "moretrees uses biome_lib, which does not support v7" -- I have heard this before but other moretrees work fine in v7.
23:36 Xiong "technic works" -- then where's the sulfur?
23:36 hecks in ethereal :P
23:37 Xiong I don't think finger pointing is helpful. Egos get involved. Please look on me as an honest broker here: having contributed nothing to either part, I have nothing invested.
23:37 paramat well, biome lib works with v7 but doesn't use it's heat and humidity distributions
23:38 rubenwardy rubber_tree_biome is defined as only spawning between -5 and 5
23:38 Xiong paramat I see that rubber demands a narrow set of conditions, yes.
23:38 rubenwardy so maybe the height varies too much for that?
23:38 rubenwardy heh
23:40 Xiong My postulate has been that rubber may be too demanding for a reasonable (even if quite rare) availability. But I have never seen a natural tree, not once; and nobody in this chan has spoken up with aye.
23:42 Xiong So I *lean* toward total exclusion, not merely rubber requires unlikely coincidence. Which brings us to the testing question.
23:42 Xiong What mapgen testing tools exist?
23:45 Xiong ... by which I mean end result tools along the way of: (1) emerge n chunks; (2) scan every emerged node for node hoge:piyo; (3) report
23:46 paramat hecks, printing a noise object may inevitably give 'nil'. do you mean 'noise_obj:get_2d()' is failing?
23:46 Swedneck is there a tutorial on making minetest mods?
23:46 hecks Attempting to use it gives me the usual "indexing a nil value"
23:46 Xiong Swedneck there is.
23:46 hecks printing it should give me something like "table:0x00blah" or "userdata:0xfoobar"
23:46 Xiong rubenwardy has written a pretty decent one.
23:47 rubenwardy !book
23:47 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/
23:47 rubenwardy Swedneck ^
23:47 Swedneck a link would be nice :P
23:47 Xiong https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html
23:47 rubenwardy lol
23:47 Swedneck thanks!
23:47 Xiong Patience grasshopper.
23:48 rubenwardy Swedneck: I gave you a link with !book :P
23:48 Xiong Does that work for all?
23:48 Swedneck the irc bridge is slow
23:48 rubenwardy ahh
23:48 Xiong !book
23:48 MinetestBot Xiong: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/
23:48 rubenwardy !book lvm
23:48 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Lua Voxel Manipulators - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/lvm.html
23:48 Swedneck i sent that before your link showed up
23:48 rubenwardy kk
23:48 Xiong What? Like that's the Only Book?
23:48 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Run updatepo.sh c2dabcf https://git.io/fh6Yb (2019-01-26T23:48:17Z)
23:48 MinetestBot [git] translations@minetest.net -> minetest/minetest: Update translations c617526 https://git.io/fh6YN (2019-01-26T23:47:10Z)
23:48 rubenwardy argh, double slash
23:49 rubenwardy Xiong: the only book that matters
23:49 Xiong Gonna have to go beyond mods for me to buy that.
23:50 Xiong Okay well please let's not get distracted from rubber.
23:50 paramat ok. i wonder if 'minetest.get_mapgen_setting_noiseparams()' returns a noiseparams format incompatible with 'minetest.get_perlin()' sounds crazy but i wouldn't be surprised
23:51 hecks Then why aren't the number parameters working either?
23:51 hecks minetest.get_perlin(seeddiff, octaves, persistence, scale)
23:52 Xiong Let's say... as it does seem... that moretrees rubber runs afoul of v7 (totally and not just in falling short of expectations). I ask then why the technic fallback rubber checks for moretrees. Why would it be unacceptable for it to run always?
23:55 hecks Why would you use moretrees anyway
23:55 paramat 'minetest.get_perlin( 0, 1, 1, 1 );' may be failing because 'scale', 4th param, is 1, it needs to be > 1
23:56 hecks let's try then
23:56 paramat 'minetest.get_mapgen_setting_noiseparams' may be returnig a string. try 'minetest.get_noiseparams(name)' instead
23:56 paramat *returning
23:57 hecks still nil; also get_mapgen_setting_noiseparams works with PerlinNoise() and lua_api says it returns NoiseParams

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