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IRC log for #minetest, 2019-01-16

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Time Nick Message
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00:25 rubenwardy Taoki: good to see you active again, at least for a short time :)
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00:35 Taoki rubenwardy: Thank you ^^
00:36 * rubenwardy hopes you stick around
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00:40 Xiong o/
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01:19 DoyleChris is there a way to place a block in mid air
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02:04 Wuzzy2 DoyleChris: no, unless there is a mod for that. XD
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12:40 MinetestBot [git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest: Fix some misspellings (#8104) 3fce27e https://git.io/fhWAM (2019-01-16T12:39:13Z)
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13:04 Xiong Has anyone found a rubber tree in a v7 world... not a result of being planted?
13:05 rubenwardy the answer is no if technic doesn't do things properly
13:05 rubenwardy the correct way to spawn trees is using the decorations API, not biomeslib
13:05 Xiong rubenwardy That's an interesting answer.
13:06 rubenwardy although actually, it should probably work
13:06 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic_worldgen/rubber.lua#L86
13:06 Xiong Let's set technic aside a moment. The moretrees mod should spawn rubber under specific conditions.
13:06 rubenwardy although they will be quite rare
13:07 Xiong Rare is okay... dunno how rare before it's too rare. None is bad.
13:09 Xiong I know technic's backup rubber is flailing. Do you suggest moretrees fails too?
13:16 Xiong rubenwardy?
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13:19 Xiong The point's not to decide who to blame. I want to decide whether to concentrate on a fix in technic, moretrees, or both... and what solution to seek. And it's quite difficult for one person to say, flatly, rubber never spawns under such-and-such.
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13:33 Xiong https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/464#issuecomment-454779845
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15:36 jas_ feeeel: https://youtu.be/7M60C-hgN2c?t=1667
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16:44 hecks jas_ what's the deal with that loss server
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17:58 Xiong Well it's been odd. This story may get long so if there's better business I'll put it aside for later. But it's been very quiet.
18:00 Xiong My current v7 world has dealt me funny cards. A week ago I hit -725 (hard) and the cavern is huge. I've been up top some but it's been hours below, spent mostly just trying to light it up.
18:01 Xiong The joker is, very little mese, no diamonds.
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18:04 Xiong Tempting to throw it over. Normally once I hit a little mese I dig straight until well below -1024. This time I have hammer and anvil so I can afford to dig for base metals. But seriously folks!
18:04 hecks Hammer and anvil?
18:05 Xiong I've actually pulled more mithril from this space than mese.
18:05 Xiong hecks An extremely worthwhile mod.
18:06 Xiong Use them to repair hand tools. Interesting limitations and costs. You still want a technic tool workshop when you can afford it.
18:07 hecks The limitations and costs would only be interesting if I can't just remake the tools on the spot
18:07 Xiong But as funny as it sounds, the anvil is portable.
18:08 Xiong Well... how many picks do you throw away?
18:09 hecks As many as I need to; a pick has to mine 3 of whatever it's made of to pay for itself
18:09 hecks I've never had to think "oh no my tool broke" in mtg unless I was out of wood
18:09 Xiong At some point I suppose you're drowning in resources and you figure it's not worthwhile, even to drag a worn tool up for machine repair.
18:10 hecks Wood is the only thing you can't make underground
18:11 Xiong Yes. Well... what if you fail to find 3 iron lumps before your pick breaks? This can happen early on.
18:11 hecks This has *never* happened to me
18:11 hecks what has happened that I failed to find extra mese at before 512, but oh well, I find it quickly enough
18:12 Xiong Also don"t forget shovel, axe, other tools. You need to repair or replace.
18:12 hecks Shovel; hardly needed
18:12 hecks Axe, just used once to get a stack of wood
18:12 Xiong And then? You never need more?
18:13 hecks By then I have emerged from my first and only mine dive with between 1k and 2k steel in pack
18:13 Xiong Never need to clear land for planting and building?
18:13 hecks 1k-ish copper, a stack of diamonds, about 2 stacks of mese...
18:13 Xiong ?
18:14 hecks Sure I can and do clear land, with new tools
18:14 hecks Really don't see the point in repairing; mining in minetest_game is too easy
18:14 hecks unless this mod you've mentioned makes it harder in some way
18:14 Xiong What on earth do you do... with nothing but a stack.of wood... to gather so much in one venture?
18:15 hecks Okay, so, from the beginning... I punch some trees to make a wood pick. I only use this wood pick to get exactly 3 cobble for a stone one, then throw it out.
18:16 hecks I mine some easy coal to bootstrap some torches.
18:16 Xiong -- no, the anvil mod just gives you an anvil and hammer... the crafts, not the items.
18:16 hecks I make a stone axe and chop 99 tree nodes.
18:16 Xiong Yesyes. So do I.
18:16 hecks If I'm playing with hunger, I forage a stack or two of food. Since I've been playing ethereal every time, bananas are the obvious choice.
18:17 hecks So; 100 tree (not planks), 200 food, stone pick, some torches
18:17 Xiong Don't know ethereal.
18:17 Xiong Yes. This is all obvious.
18:18 hecks Well then, I don't know what you're doing that this doesn't last you a mine-till-you're-full session
18:18 hecks But what I do is, I don't dig straight down right away; I try to use natural caves for easy loot first.
18:18 Xiong Well... "full" isn't much stuff.
18:19 hecks Even if you compress your loot?
18:19 Xiong ??
18:19 hecks Making "blocks" from ingots to save space
18:19 hecks Then again, this may or may not be a mod
18:19 Xiong No, not.
18:21 hecks Well then; compressed, you can fit about 1k of an ore in one space
18:21 hecks Also, you can use craft space to carry things
18:21 Xiong So you are down crafting furnaces, etc. Let me guess: you make no effort to craft a path you can follow down again, let alone return up along?
18:22 hecks I do return to the surface; but the first mine is disposable
18:22 hecks I dig one wherever I spawn and once I have my stacks, I look for a place to build things. Then I get bored and delete the world.
18:22 Xiong Erm yes.
18:23 hecks Anyway, for space management; when mining the inevitable cavern, I set up a smelting base
18:23 Xiong You would.
18:23 hecks and return to it periodically to make ingots; I also spend some of the precious wood for a couple chests to keep things in
18:23 hecks though if you're a complete munchkin, you can store things in furnaces which are "free" down there
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18:24 hecks Eventually I do run out of space or wood; wood usually goes out first
18:24 Xiong I could never tolerate this style. I need to work up top too.
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18:24 hecks Well I do make things on the surface, once I've gotten the stuff I need
18:25 Xiong How deep have you generally gone in this one big dig?
18:25 kasbah[m] hello all, just started playing minetest on android
18:25 hecks Up to 2k depending on when I hit the cavern. I do not explore further than that.
18:26 kasbah[m] wondering how to separate out "stacks" of components into individuals when crafting
18:26 Xiong Well thx hecks. You have given me real insight into why I play as I do.
18:26 hecks A cavern usually has more than enough to satisfy my greed for one go; if I ever needed to, I'd likely dig a new hole
18:27 hecks but ~800 copper is enough to build whatever the hell you want, as far as technic is concerned
18:27 Xiong kasbah we call that splitting stacks. Which platform?
18:28 kasbah[m] android
18:28 Xiong Good on you! It's tricky.
18:29 Xiong Touch the slot... inventory slot, craft slot, furnace or chest slot... and while holding that, make a second touch with another finger or knuckle.
18:30 Xiong Sounds worse than it is.
18:30 Xiong This splits two different ways, not easy to explain.
18:30 kasbah[m] oh yeah, neat, thanks!
18:31 Xiong Do you want the detail? Not easy to figure out... wasn't for me.
18:31 kasbah[m] i got it, thanks, works pretty well
18:32 Xiong Which way?
18:33 Xiong Say you start with a stack of 8. You can split that 7-1 or 4-4. Two different... manipulations.
18:33 kasbah[m] both, i think
18:33 kasbah[m] using the first one mostly
18:34 Xiong As the stacks get bigger you'll want both.
18:35 Xiong It's common to want to distribute one or more stacks equally among four or six slots.
18:36 Xiong May I recommend "unified inventory". Good for anyone, great for the Androider.
18:36 kasbah[m] sure, what is it?
18:37 Xiong UI has a feature that allows you to set up crafts quickly. Run it and I doubt you'll ask for help; it mostly explains itself.
18:38 Xiong Erm... better back up... UI is a mod. Without mods, minetest has little more appeal than a pile of dry toast.
18:39 kasbah[m] i'd need to install it?
18:39 Xiong Much of the talk in this chan revolves around mods.
18:39 Xiong Installing mods is a basic skill.
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18:40 kasbah[m] sure sure, just having fun with the even more basic skills for now though :)
18:40 Xiong Erm... I have much technical skill and plenty experience playing... not to declare myself any expert. And for me, quite a few things are... extra work on the phone.
18:41 kasbah[m] thanks for your help!
18:41 Xiong Keep me in mind. Most of us play on Linux. Android is full of wrinkles.
18:42 hecks >Without mods, minetest has little more appeal than a pile of dry toast.
18:42 hecks With mods, minetest has about as much appeal as burnt toast
18:42 hecks Some call it an improvement
18:43 kasbah[m] i'll look into it when i get bored for sure
18:43 Xiong hecks I'd have put it more strongly if I could.
18:45 Xiong All you can do is pile up some stone and call it home. I think of... dunno, maybe 8 or 10... as essential mods. If I play without them, I'm testing something, not playing for fun.
18:45 hecks What I meant is, no matter how many "essential" mods you have, it's still bland
18:46 Xiong It's worth saying that VanessaE is responsible for about half those mods. Credit where due.
18:46 Xiong ?
18:47 Xiong Did you know Home Decor now has a piano? This time next year, I'll not be surprised to see it with a keyboard in its formspec.
18:48 hecks I do not use homedecor, it's very bloated and doesn't fit the style well
18:48 Xiong Bookshelves with removable and *writable* books.
18:49 Xiong It is... very big. But... how do you get superglowglass?
18:49 Unarelith wtf is superglowglass?
18:49 hecks Hmm
18:49 rubenwardy it's glass that glows bright
18:49 Xiong ???
18:49 rubenwardy whereas glow glass is just glass that glows
18:49 hecks I do remember that homedecor was needed to have those nice splittable glow cubes
18:49 rubenwardy glass -> glow glass -> super glow glass
18:49 rubenwardy it's in Moreblocks
18:49 hecks but I don't think it's required for superglow, yeah
18:49 Xiong Unarelith you are missing out.
18:50 hecks This reminds me; glow glass is another key element in mining resource management :)
18:50 hecks but ol' torches still work
18:50 Xiong Okay do sgg moved to moreblocks... another mod I don't play without.
18:50 Xiong *so
18:51 hecks You may be mistaking sgg for the solid glow cubes which are homedecor stuff
18:51 Unarelith oh ok, but what is the difference between glow and super glow? In the first case it is just a source of light and in the second it's a source of light + it glows?
18:51 Xiong Nono, sgg has all the advantage.
18:51 hecks SGG is splittable and I don't remember the exact math but it's more efficient than placing torches
18:52 Xiong Unarelith, sgg is brighter than "plain" glowglass.
18:52 Xiong Try it you like it. Still a cheap craft and extremely versatile.
18:53 Xiong If you stack 3 sgg, you can farm underground.
18:53 hecks Some farming related things do not work underground from what I can remember
18:54 hecks Saplings I think?
18:54 Unarelith Well that's really interesting
18:54 hecks but if I can farm cotton underground, oh boy
18:54 Xiong Dunno. I've had tree farms deep. Didn't even require light.
18:54 Xiong Things change!
18:55 hecks Well technically it should work, plants don't need more than that
18:55 hecks What is less realistic is underground furnaces, you'd choke to death on the smoke
18:56 Xiong Anyway... have another look at home decor. I agree it's too fat but recently I stared at it, looking to cut it down. I couldn't see much to throw out.
18:56 rubenwardy Unarelith: super glow glasses is brighter
18:56 rubenwardy that's the difference
18:56 rubenwardy and it's also more expansive because of that
18:57 Xiong Your style may not work with a VCR and enamel fridge. But there are also many iron and brass trimmings good for stone castles.
18:58 hecks I do not see the point of homedecor; why would I want to craft a non-functioning pony slaystation when I can craft a functioning luacontroller and program it
18:58 Xiong Not a one-off! HD is a whole shopping mall.
18:58 hecks and, with the right mods, technically a whole computer network ingame
18:58 Xiong Erm dunno. I have no use for the toys.
18:59 Unarelith rubenwardy, I can read thanks, I just don't understand which exact properties of the objects are increased to give it this "brighter" effect since I haven't used it, is it light range increase? a glowing effect on the block? something else? That's what I was asking. The technical meaning of "brighter".
18:59 hecks Homedecor also makes craft guides hard to navigate, so much crap to page through
18:59 hecks So much crap I'll never use, and I'll say it bluntly, much of it not really that good looking
19:00 Xiong You may not care for HD; that's your right. I won't argue with taste.
19:00 rubenwardy Unarelith: nodes can have a light source property, which determines how much light they give out
19:00 rubenwardy light levels go up to 15
19:00 rubenwardy ie: 0-15
19:00 rubenwardy and node sources should only go up to 14, because 15 is for sunlight
19:01 Unarelith oh yeah right, so it's just an increase of that value?
19:01 scr267 hecks: If you are not happy with it, why not improve it or make something better?  No point complaining right?
19:01 Xiong Nono. The source has that value.
19:01 scr267 It does what it was meant to do: decorate.
19:02 Unarelith Xiong, it's just an increase of that value "between the two types of glow glass"?
19:02 Xiong So far as I know, gg and sgg are identical except for brightness.
19:02 hecks scr267: My issues with minetest and its mods run deeply enough that the only way to "improve" it is to make a whole subgame.
19:02 hecks Which is coincidentally what I work on when I feel like it.
19:03 scr267 hecks: Cool... and I apologize I don't want to throw flack your way unnecessarily.  I agree some mods need work, but...
19:04 Xiong Up to you Unarelith. When I use a block I want all the jazz I can yank from it. So I prefer sgg.
19:05 Unarelith ok you didn't understand at all what I meant, nevermind x)
19:05 Xiong I mean... you can work around many limitations. But why?
19:05 Xiong Erm... dunno. You keep asking what's different. We've said. What more?
19:06 hecks The problem isn't that mods need work, the problem is that there is no mod that makes mtg a game proper, with some point to it
19:06 hecks and if someone were to make that wonderful mod, the mod would be "choked" by the rest of mtg's decisions
19:07 hecks hence https://a.uguu.se/Azu4rrCK1hKT_yousenselag.png
19:07 Xiong "nodes can have a light source property"... "gg and sgg are identical except for brightness"... there isn't much else to say.
19:10 Xiong "light source property" is how much the node lights up surrounding nodes. It's not superficial appearance. One could design a block that looked like obsidian but shone like a noonday sun.
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19:11 Xiong Erm... infact... I recall seeing a mod that provided an invisible light source.
19:14 Xiong hecks it's a nice picture. Not for me thx. I already have nightmares about nearly-nekkid girls armed with swords... and worse.
19:15 Xiong I can look at the pic but if I am busy planting weeds and one spooks me... I may not have a good day.
19:16 hecks That's third person, dummy
19:17 Xiong As for the "not a game" objection, I agree with the statement... but not the problem.
19:17 Xiong ?
19:17 hecks also y'all here arguing about light blocks when you could just https://a.uguu.se/r3ShHEfqwGNb_light.mp4
19:18 Xiong I have difficulty with pronouns. What's "that"?
19:18 hecks I mean, the screenshot. There ain't no naked girls spooking anyone in this, yet.
19:19 Xiong I saw a skimply-dressed young lady with sword and shield. What did you draw?
19:19 hecks Hm?
19:20 Xiong I followed the previous link you posted.
19:20 hecks Yeah, sure, I just don't understand the "what did you draw" part
19:20 hecks I make all the models and textures myself if that's what you're asking
19:22 Xiong "There ain't no naked girls spooking anyone in this..." I said nearly naked and I'm the one who fears to be spooked. Why us it important to you to make me out a bigger fool than I already am?
19:24 Xiong That's not a unicorn or tuba. I doesn't fill me with joy or... no offense... interest. Why... argue... with my reaction? Or if you prefer no reaction, why display?
19:25 Xiong I also said it was a nice pic... nicely done. You didn't take issue with flattery.
19:25 hecks I just thought that you mistook that for a mob, for the odd angle.
19:25 Xiong Mob, another player, cardboard cutout. Dunno.
19:26 hecks I'm more interested in hearing why is this nightmare fuel to you
19:26 Xiong Look... I want to say this politely... it's a big world and people are funny. I'm funnier than most but I'm not the only funny one.
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19:28 Xiong The reason there are no telepaths is that they would be so busy killing everyone with intolerable thoughts... there'd be nobody left.
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19:29 paramat MTGame 5.0.0-dev has deeper ores. diamond now starts at -1024. mese crystal is at low density from -512 to -1024, higher density below -1024
19:29 Xiong Hell, it's a wonder I haven't been killed yet
19:29 hecks neeeeeerfed
19:30 Xiong paramat thank you so much! I thought I was cursed.
19:30 hecks Reasoning behind this decision?
19:31 Xiong You forgot what I wrote an hour ago. Seems paramat just read it.
19:31 paramat mese block now starts at -2048. because ores were too easy and too shallow. the tunnels in non-mgv6 mapgens make vertical travel much easier
19:32 paramat oh, the new depths only apply to non-mgv6 mapgens
19:32 Xiong Wasn't exactly a decision. I started blathering in here due to indecision.
19:33 Xiong Well paramat I'm sold on v7 so.
19:33 paramat digging to -1024 was one of the first things i ever did in MT just a few hours in, and this was in mgv6, it's easy
19:33 Xiong Also I think it's a good change.
19:34 hecks I don't think this will make things much harder, as long as it's viable to dig a 3-high staircase into oblivion
19:34 Xiong Now if only someone could think up a goal gor technic.
19:35 Xiong *for
19:35 hecks Goal for technic? As a player?
19:35 Xiong Yes.
19:36 hecks Enable frames. Make a big ass frameship.
19:37 hecks The frameship should be able to fly in every direction; it should be able to fly and maintain course unattended. (a tiny challenge because frame motors require impulses)
19:38 Xiong I have topped out... reactor deep, half-dozen quarries running day and night. Then I realized... I was done as soon as I built it all... and most of it had no use other than to build the rest. Still a challenge. But an end payoff would be nice.
19:38 hecks Optionally, mount everything you need on the ship. I do *not* however recommend mounting a bed onto it, as there are problems with that.
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19:39 paramat heh yes not much harder
19:39 Xiong First, let's fix the boat.
19:40 Xiong The boat is better!
19:40 hecks I guarantee you that this kind of frameship is doable and will work. However, you will get bored of it soon enough because it's minetest.
19:40 hecks And yes, a regular ol' 5 plank boat is a better vehicle still.
19:40 Xiong The boat is now almost as fast as swimming.
19:41 paramat btw, you can grow anything underground by using 'meselamp' or 'mese post light' (light level 14, the maximum), but they have to be an immediate face-neighbour to the sapling/plant
19:44 Xiong paramat do trees no longer grow in the dark?
19:47 paramat I'm not sure saplings ever grew in darkness
19:48 Xiong Oh yes. Plain default trees. I had farms back when... before elevators.
19:50 hecks ..Elevators?
19:50 hecks Don't tell me there are people riding luaentities and expecting not to fall off them.
19:51 Xiong Blast from the past... https://imgur.com/0s47rRu
19:52 Xiong Obviously no pix of trees growing in total darkness but I do testify. I went to some trouble to test exactly that.
19:52 hecks I just love having to load JS from several domains just to see a still image.
19:53 hecks How does that tree not catch fire anyway?
19:53 Xiong Didn't usta be. Imgur won my business long ago on their liberal hotlinking. May have gone sour.
19:54 paramat lava was probably bright enough to grow a sapling back then. torches were too, but we changed that sillyness, now it's only mese growlamps
19:55 paramat and yes it's quite possible saplings grew in darkness a few years back
19:55 hecks minetest; the most realistic illegal plantation simulator to date
19:56 Xiong Here's the whole album: Minetest 1 https://imgur.com/a/y1z0d
19:56 Xiong Other pix show the lava clearly running past tree. It was a simpler age.
19:57 hecks Do you still use ladders?
19:57 Xiong I like compressed dirt ladders now.
19:57 Xiong I mean... why not?
19:58 hecks I've learned to do staircases instead of ladders; much faster to ascend and much safer to make than a vertical shaft
19:58 hecks How many times did you die by making a shaft straight into a cavern?
19:58 Xiong Um... rarely. But then I'm slow and cautious.
19:59 Xiong I never dig a one-time passage of any kind.
20:00 hecks It sure happened a few "rarelies" too often to me; if not a cavern death then a warning shot in the form of a smaller cave
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20:00 hecks Carefully descending this way while maintaining ladders, I think diagonal shafts are faster
20:01 Xiong I dislike stairs intensely. Up top I use slabs for a 1:2 grade at worst.
20:01 hecks I don't mean stair nodes, though I use slabs for some paths to eliminate jumping
20:02 Xiong Nono. Ladders are for short stretches. Water shafts for depth... travelnet for big moves.
20:02 hecks I mean just a 3 node high diagonal shaft; if you angle it right, you can "glide" upwards at a nice speed
20:02 Xiong I like more tools... and a tool for each purpose.
20:02 hecks but water shafts are decent too; my choice in CTF where there's no time for anything else
20:02 Xiong Ctf?
20:03 hecks Wardy's CTF server, never tried that?
20:03 Xiong Why is time limited?
20:04 hecks Because you want to get good ores for your team ASAP to give them a tech edge
20:05 hecks I suck at capturing so usually I fortify the base or do the mining
20:06 Xiong Foo
20:11 Xiong I don't even own a raincoat. Al Gore was right! And who will want to pay the price to live in San Francisco when the San Francisco weather is gone?
20:12 Xiong Less than three min outside and I'm drenched.
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20:13 Xiong ... and the breaker just tripped.
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20:40 Xiong Ctf, capture the flag.
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21:46 Edgy1 hey, i am wondering if someone knows stuff about how tnt mod works? asking bc im trying to modify rangedweapons mod which relies on it for explosives. i am disabling explosives rn so people dont grief but i wanna know if its possible to make explosions only hurt nearby players and not grief anything.
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21:53 hecks "I'll just play one round of CTF"
21:53 hecks 3 hours later
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21:58 Edgy1 lol hecks
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22:03 Ruslan1 Hello
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22:10 sofar Edgy1: minetest_game has an API doc that covers it
22:10 sofar Edgy1: I don't think there's mucjh beyond tnt.boom() that you can call directly
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22:11 Edgy1 hmm
22:11 Edgy1 well, i could modify how that works maybe, tho i barely know lua.
22:11 Edgy1 im trying to make explosives from another mod that calls tnt.boom() not delete blocks but rather just hurt nearby players
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22:31 sofar Edgy1: yeah I don't think there's a call for that
22:31 sofar probably could, easily
22:32 Edgy1 I'll have to modify then
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