| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:37 |
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| 01:38 |
scr267 |
hello got a bug with a npb mod, anyone can help? seems the textures are positioned 50% higher than the npc box |
| 01:38 |
scr267 |
"npb mod = npc mod" |
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| 05:09 |
sovetskiy |
hello everybody |
| 05:09 |
sovetskiy |
how to track the event when inventory is full and nothing is added to it after attempt to take/dig something? |
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JayTheNinja23 |
hi |
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| 11:47 |
deltasquared |
I've got a query about the efficiency of ABMs when used with a neighbours specifier. looking at the code for the dynamic_liquid mod, the readme claims that the ABM is efficient because it "re-uses the engine's built-in liquid flow detection" - is this correct? I was hoping to do some ABM stuff and I'm hoping that I could make it a bit more efficient polling-based triggering |
| 11:48 |
deltasquared |
in particular, I'm curious if such an adjacency ABM is only triggered on a "node update" of sorts within the engine, or if it's started on such an update and then triggered once per second (or whatever time period the ABM specifies) thereafter |
| 11:49 |
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| 11:49 |
deltasquared |
call it premature optimisation if you want, but let's just say that I want to ensure it remains lightweight and scalable |
| 11:51 |
deltasquared |
if anyone wants to know the context, it's for something abusing the pipeworks mod to move liquid as items, and I kinda wanted the "absorber" node to have code run in an event-triggered manner when water source moves next to it (with the dynamic_liquids mod enabled, so this can happen) |
| 12:07 |
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| 12:28 |
deltasquared |
to give an example of the concern here (slightly degenerate but still), I would imagine that the engine is more intelligent than checking every single block of a given type continuously for an ABM trigger - if this were not the case, then an ABM on stone would bring a server to it's knees |
| 12:29 |
deltasquared |
so say the engine notices that another block is next to stone, satisfying the ABM, and that it would make a note of that and only check again if something happened near a stone block - as blocks satisfying the condition (when neighbours are specified) can't possibly change unless a block near them changes |
| 12:34 |
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| 12:48 |
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| 12:52 |
Krock |
where's wuzzy when you need him? |
| 12:52 |
Krock |
..or her |
| 12:52 |
deltasquared |
Krock: what, for your thing or my thing |
| 12:53 |
Krock |
not related to your thing |
| 12:54 |
Krock |
the problem with ABMs is, that they should be executed whenever possible. And it's true that triggering it on "air" or "default:stone" will cause some additional load |
| 12:55 |
Krock |
caching the affected nodes would use way too much memory per mapblock |
| 12:55 |
asl97 |
deltasquared: abm aren't smart afaik, you can check the source here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/808ada11db2877576641380b9406756e347ce7f1/src/serverenvironment.cpp#L782 |
| 12:55 |
asl97 |
there are a number of threads and issue report relating to the slowness of abm. |
| 12:55 |
Krock |
so, try using node timers instead of ABMs |
| 12:55 |
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| 12:56 |
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| 12:56 |
deltasquared |
Krock: node timers... that's a new one. though they might suffer the same issue unless there was some way, again, to fire *something* in an event triggered many when and only when one specific block touches another specific block |
| 12:56 |
deltasquared |
*new one to me anyway |
| 12:56 |
deltasquared |
s/many// |
| 12:57 |
Krock |
so.. 6 additional node checks and lua callbacks when digging, placing or erasing a node with the voxel manip? |
| 12:58 |
deltasquared |
Krock: sans the last one, because I was under the impression voxel manip just doesn't update other things anyway |
| 12:59 |
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| 13:00 |
Krock |
s/sans/without/ |
| 13:00 |
deltasquared |
Krock: the only other thing I could think of is an exponential (or possibly randomised) backoff between checks when the check comes up empty, and stagger the starts with a random time in a LBM, and arrange to re-invoke the callback at the random time via minetest.after |
| 13:01 |
deltasquared |
which admittedly would possibly incur extra memory usage for all those timer events and closures |
| 13:02 |
Krock |
do we have an issue about this already? |
| 13:02 |
deltasquared |
Krock: about which bit sorry |
| 13:02 |
deltasquared |
though I tend to find any such issues are worded rather differently to how I would phrase it |
| 13:02 |
Krock |
the trigger idea. |
| 13:03 |
deltasquared |
guess I'll go digging through the issues tracker |
| 13:03 |
Krock |
I mean an issue on GitHub, whether we have one there already |
| 13:04 |
deltasquared |
hmm, it does not seem so. |
| 13:06 |
deltasquared |
I'm just looking a bit closer at the linked engine code |
| 13:07 |
asl97 |
minetest.after don't persist, (not to mention all the other issue with it), meaning you would need to set lbm to rerun everytime the server restart, i wouldn't recommend it |
| 13:07 |
asl97 |
instead of recreating a timer implementation, you would be better off using node timer |
| 13:07 |
asl97 |
however, since we are talking about triggering on another mod function, it would be better to implement an hook in that function. |
| 13:09 |
deltasquared |
asl97: "triggering on another mod function" actually the thing I would write here would have to be the initiator. |
| 13:09 |
deltasquared |
specifically, calling pipeworks.tube_add_item() after it absorbed water blocks |
| 13:10 |
deltasquared |
asl97: also I was under the impression LBMs triggered on a mapblock load containing the associated node every time by default |
| 13:12 |
deltasquared |
asl97: that said, per-node timers and on_timer do look interesting, I will look into it |
| 13:13 |
deltasquared |
I would still need some kind of "on_load" to arm the timer of course, so I'll go looking in the API for that next |
| 13:16 |
asl97 |
daltasquard: minetest.after is different from node timer, don't confuse the two. |
| 13:16 |
asl97 |
the last time i check, lbm don't run on newly created block, only on loading already created block which dated older than the lbm. |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:20 |
asl97 |
and it will only run once on each block unless specify otherwise |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:28 |
deltasquared |
note to self: do not sleep system while connected to IRC |
| 13:34 |
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| 13:36 |
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| 13:36 |
deltasquared |
again. rip. |
| 13:38 |
deltasquared |
Krock, asl97: it occurs to me in any case if one to implement some kind of block update mechanism, it is unclear that the gains for the efficiency of callback execution would be worth it considering the slowdown potentially incurred by such a "hot path" in the engine having to check some kind of map "these blocks need update callbacks" |
| 13:38 |
deltasquared |
it would almost certainly have to be in the core code for node changing, and everyone would lose there if that was slowed down. |
| 13:40 |
deltasquared |
asl97: cheers for the hints in what I missed. darn about the LBM thing though. |
| 13:41 |
deltasquared |
in any case, I still think gradually increasing the timer delay when the block is "idle" will help, I'm just trying to figure out how I can arm the timer on map load now |
| 13:42 |
deltasquared |
regardless of said timer backoff |
| 13:44 |
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| 13:51 |
deltasquared |
asl97: actually looking at the lbm definition in my local lua_api.txt, it does seem there is a run_at_every_load entry, so I guess I'll try that (the comment does say that if false it's only run if the map is older than LBMs are) |
| 13:52 |
deltasquared |
print("A wild cobblestone appeared!") hehe |
| 14:11 |
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| 15:04 |
rdococ |
yay |
| 15:15 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix blocks written by vmanip not being marked as modified d5a97e0 https://git.io/vdUGe (2017-09-23T15:09:11Z) |
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| 16:44 |
Taose |
Hi all |
| 16:44 |
Taose |
Map Generators... |
| 16:44 |
Taose |
what selection do we have lately? |
| 16:44 |
Taose |
(I lost all my minetest stuff in a format -_-, damned ubuntu corrupted everything) |
| 16:45 |
Taose |
Also... |
| 16:45 |
Taose |
what's the chances of generating a map from a black'n'white height map? |
| 16:46 |
Krock |
v5,6,7,valleys,carpathian and singlenode |
| 16:46 |
Krock |
+fractals |
| 16:46 |
Krock |
100% chance if you have the heightmap as bitmap to read |
| 16:47 |
Taose |
Eh I can convert it to bitmap, any size restrictions? |
| 16:47 |
Krock |
but it would result in a boring landscape with only two levels |
| 16:47 |
Taose |
(This map is 64kx32k png so....) |
| 16:48 |
Taose |
¬_¬ |
| 16:48 |
Taose |
It has grey in their too |
| 16:48 |
Krock |
well, HDD size if it matters |
| 16:48 |
Taose |
... |
| 16:48 |
* Taose |
picks up a grammar dictionary |
| 16:48 |
Krock |
graytone bitmap, then |
| 16:48 |
asl97 |
Taose: the wiki has info on those kind of things, https://wiki.minetest.net/Map_Generator |
| 16:48 |
Taose |
O.o |
| 16:49 |
Taose |
handy, I was checking the website and the forums, forgot about the wiki |
| 16:49 |
Taose |
Thanks both |
| 16:50 |
Krock |
!next |
| 16:50 |
MinetestBot |
Another satisfied customer. Next! |
| 16:50 |
Taose |
Do I put minetest_game inside games? |
| 16:50 |
Taose |
(On ubuntu so had to compile from source) |
| 16:51 |
Krock |
yes. *_game indicates that |
| 16:51 |
Taose |
Right o, thanks very much |
| 16:52 |
rdococ |
hi |
| 16:52 |
rdococ |
infinite precision :P |
| 16:52 |
Out`Of`Control |
Hi |
| 16:53 |
Krock |
!c 0.3 - 0.2 == 0.1 |
| 16:53 |
MinetestBot |
False |
| 16:53 |
rdococ |
heh |
| 16:53 |
rdococ |
!c 0.1 + 0.2 == 0.3 |
| 16:53 |
Out`Of`Control |
Why my server age is 2.8 years, in real its much older? |
| 16:53 |
rdococ |
MinetestBot, fix your math skills |
| 16:57 |
Krock |
Out`Of`Control, it takes "game_time", which seems to be counting the seconds it's been used |
| 17:00 |
Out`Of`Control |
Krock: dunno map is much older than that value |
| 17:01 |
Taose |
Would I be correct in thinking the only generator that supports grayscale is Real Terrain 0.1.0? |
| 17:02 |
rdococ |
hm |
| 17:02 |
rdococ |
should I create a cool lua terrain generator? |
| 17:02 |
rdococ |
I know how to create a cool desert biome with dunes if people are interested |
| 17:03 |
rdococ |
s/create/create a function to generate/ |
| 17:08 |
swift110 |
hey all |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:15 |
swift110 |
hey Krock |
| 17:15 |
swift110 |
long time now see |
| 17:16 |
Krock |
hey swift110 |
| 17:16 |
Krock |
you're alright? |
| 17:17 |
rdococ |
hi |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:29 |
Taose |
I forgot how dark it gets in minetest... |
| 17:37 |
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| 18:08 |
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| 18:10 |
AspireMint |
Hello, quick question, can i "safely" shutdown server with ^C ? Server is running but not responding. Cannot join, but mt process is running. |
| 18:12 |
jas_ |
that's my favorite way |
| 18:12 |
jas_ |
(yes i thinkit's ok) |
| 18:12 |
AspireMint |
no corrupted map? |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
yes but make sure to do it just once |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
and no this definitely won't corrupt your map |
| 18:13 |
AspireMint |
ok, but if yes, i will find you.. x) |
| 18:13 |
rdococ |
lol |
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| 18:21 |
AspireMint |
ok, everything looks fine (almost got heart attack), thank you sfan5 ! |
| 18:24 |
rdococ |
lol |
| 18:25 |
rdococ |
I'm pretty sure ^C allows the server to proceed with its shutdown routine anyway |
| 18:25 |
AspireMint |
well not ^C but kill command x) |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:33 |
habeangur |
if the server program does not handle CtrlC in that way, someone should add it |
| 18:33 |
habeangur |
and I forgot what does kill send by default |
| 18:33 |
habeangur |
but kill -2 is CtrlC |
| 18:33 |
habeangur |
kill -15 Terminate(can handle that) |
| 18:34 |
habeangur |
and kill -9 KILL(cannot handle that) |
| 18:35 |
deltasquared |
habeangur: yep Ctrl-C sends SIGINT, which is signal 2. |
| 18:35 |
deltasquared |
I would be suprised if it does not handle Ctrl-C, might have to watch that when experimenting with the server before shoving it in a systemd service |
| 18:36 |
sfan5 |
it does handle sigint |
| 18:37 |
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| 18:40 |
AspireMint |
O.O i didnt use -9 /me hides |
| 18:41 |
rdococ |
no, using -9 is probably a bad idea :P |
| 18:41 |
AspireMint |
but everything is ok x) |
| 18:44 |
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| 20:17 |
Out`Of`Control |
AspireMint: you run minetest as root? |
| 20:18 |
* deltasquared |
starts to look for buffer overflow exploits |
| 20:18 |
deltasquared |
AspireMint: needless to say, that is not a good idea |
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| 20:37 |
AspireMint |
Out`Of`Control, sometimes x) |
| 20:37 |
AspireMint |
often* :-D |
| 21:04 |
Out`Of`Control |
ho had idea replacing fake fire ( homedecor) with real fire? |
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