| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 00:49 |
desvox |
Finally made my first mod. It adds ore to tree trunks. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12093&p=178069#p178069 |
| 00:50 |
Trixar_za |
Hmmm - that reminds me. I want to make a mod that adds more trap blocks |
| 00:53 |
desvox |
Trap blocks? |
| 00:54 |
Trixar_za |
Blocks that act like normal blocks, but players can move through them. |
| 00:59 |
desvox |
Oh! There was a nice minecraft mod that was nothing but neat stuff like that. It had doors, switches, pressure plates and shit that all blended straight into walls and floors. |
| 00:59 |
desvox |
And walkthrough blocks that disguised as what they were placed around |
| 01:00 |
Trixar_za |
Yeah - I want more of those :P |
| 01:00 |
Trixar_za |
Currently I only have trap stone, glow glass and super glow glass blocks |
| 01:01 |
Trixar_za |
Not sure which mod added those or if they come with the base files. |
| 01:02 |
Trixar_za |
I'd like to make trap window pane glass - imagine building a water tower type thing doing that :P |
| 01:02 |
desvox |
Oh, so like an elevator? That would be perfect |
| 01:04 |
Trixar_za |
Kind of like this: http://trixarian.net/windows.jpg except you can walk through the glass panels |
| 01:05 |
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| 01:48 |
LittleJoe |
are there any mods for VE's survival server online? |
| 02:26 |
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MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix typo in WieldMesh::setItem() d59e6ad http://git.io/vUmOj (2015-05-08T23:30:56-04:00) |
| 03:38 |
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Zeno` |
I didn't see a PR for that fix |
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| 06:01 |
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| 06:39 |
jin_xi |
technomancy: i think i read your blog once... you did the semi-keyboards attached to the legs thing, right? |
| 06:39 |
jin_xi |
nice stuff |
| 06:39 |
technomancy |
jin_xi: hah, yeah I did that briefly |
| 06:39 |
technomancy |
kind of impractical; much happier with the Atreus now: http://atreus.technomancy.us |
| 06:40 |
jin_xi |
oh, that looks nice indeed |
| 06:41 |
technomancy |
thanks |
| 06:41 |
technomancy |
not great for gaming but it's super for coding |
| 06:45 |
jin_xi |
wasd/arrows shifted by one looks a bit weird thb |
| 06:45 |
technomancy |
I used to have the arrows under wasd, but leaving your hands on the home row position is way nicer for me |
| 06:46 |
jin_xi |
im just cautious because i learned vi keys with index on h of hjkl, ie shifted one to the left |
| 06:46 |
technomancy |
especially for the occasional arrow press instead of gaming |
| 06:46 |
jin_xi |
messes with me badly now. |
| 06:46 |
technomancy |
well those are shifted the other way, so you're using your index finger more |
| 06:47 |
technomancy |
shifting towards the pinkies sucks because pinkies are weak |
| 06:47 |
jin_xi |
yes, plorblem is i shifted the whole hand after playing too much nethack : ( |
| 06:47 |
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| 06:48 |
technomancy |
plus WASD doesn't have the correct staggering in this layout |
| 07:18 |
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| 08:53 |
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| 09:00 |
Xack |
\o |
| 09:01 |
Xack |
holy crap |
| 09:01 |
Xack |
hi technomancy, didn't know you play minetest :P |
| 09:01 |
Calinou |
hi Xack |
| 09:01 |
Calinou |
Xack, we have yet to see Notch here |
| 09:01 |
Calinou |
some day he will come :D |
| 09:01 |
Xack |
haha |
| 09:01 |
Xack |
hi Calinou :) |
| 09:01 |
Calinou |
would be fun to see a Mojangsta joining Minetest development |
| 09:02 |
Calinou |
it means we'd have won |
| 09:02 |
Calinou |
:p |
| 09:02 |
Xack |
yeah heh |
| 09:02 |
Xack |
yay minetest installed |
| 09:02 |
Calinou |
I have a server, Xack (not many players) if you want to play |
| 09:02 |
Xack |
openSUSE has 0.4.12 now :D |
| 09:02 |
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| 09:02 |
Calinou |
hugo.pro port 30000 |
| 09:02 |
Xack |
Calinou: sure :) |
| 09:02 |
Xack |
(didn't you already tell me? :P) |
| 09:03 |
Calinou |
probably |
| 09:03 |
Xack |
ah forgot to put inchra on autoconnect |
| 09:04 |
Xack |
also i consider technomancy famous for his work with clojure, and others :) |
| 09:04 |
Calinou |
Clojure, a language nopony understands ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
| 09:04 |
Xack |
haha |
| 09:04 |
Calinou |
it's the language Light Table (an editor) uses |
| 09:04 |
Xack |
yep |
| 09:04 |
Calinou |
although I prefer Atom, lots of packages to do everything |
| 09:05 |
Calinou |
it's my #1 IDE for Web development |
| 09:05 |
Xack |
yeah, atom's great |
| 09:05 |
Xack |
tho i work in the terminal, and atom lags my computer like hell, so i use emacs |
| 09:05 |
Xack |
and i prefer emacs anyway |
| 09:05 |
Xack |
because lisp :P |
| 09:05 |
* Xack |
hides from the vim users |
| 09:12 |
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| 09:25 |
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| 09:28 |
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| 09:41 |
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| 10:16 |
* sfan5 |
xacks at Xack |
| 10:17 |
* ElectronLibre |
wonders if that's even an english verb. |
| 10:17 |
Xack |
hi sfan5 \o |
| 10:22 |
Calinou |
xack is a word, xacks isn't |
| 10:22 |
Calinou |
(lowercase) |
| 10:23 |
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| 10:24 |
joalland |
hi |
| 10:24 |
joalland |
I've just tested the game and it's amazing how it's more optimized thant minecraft |
| 10:24 |
joalland |
C++ > java |
| 10:25 |
joalland |
Well done and thank to the developpers. =) |
| 10:28 |
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| 10:38 |
Xack |
sfan5: https://gist.github.com/f0c4a98de61d78a2b3ae |
| 10:38 |
Xack |
is that meant to work? |
| 10:38 |
Xack |
or does mt have safeguards against it? |
| 10:39 |
Xack |
(when trying it change s/Xack/sfan5/) |
| 10:40 |
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| 10:42 |
Calinou |
this gave me the idea of a very simple mod: show your username on HUD in a corner |
| 10:43 |
CWz |
that would be useful for the ones who forget their username when they login |
| 10:43 |
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| 10:46 |
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| 10:49 |
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| 10:50 |
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| 10:50 |
CWz |
Mintest is feels like it more alive than it was in 2013 when i first found it |
| 10:51 |
Calinou |
when I joined it in July 2011 it felt pretty dead |
| 10:51 |
Calinou |
but it was holidays, so it's quite normal |
| 10:51 |
Calinou |
stuff is more dead during holidays (July-August) |
| 10:53 |
ElectronLibre |
How to show your username : /me |
| 10:54 |
Calinou |
well, that says something in chat |
| 10:54 |
ElectronLibre |
Yes, so, find something to say with it and it's fine; |
| 10:54 |
ElectronLibre |
I remember a mod having a /whoami command also. |
| 10:55 |
ElectronLibre |
Ah, yes, default/commands.lua in Carbone. |
| 10:57 |
Calinou |
player_tools by Wuzzy does that |
| 10:58 |
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| 10:59 |
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| 11:00 |
SSlash |
Guys, is there newer cmake-build guide than README.txt included in minetest-master folder? I have a problem with OpenAL, Freetype, LuaJIT etc. libraries. I am a dummy, btw :) |
| 11:02 |
Calinou |
SSlash, what distribution? |
| 11:02 |
Calinou |
there is none, all materials refer to README.txt |
| 11:03 |
Calinou |
you should make an issue on GitHub |
| 11:03 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues |
| 11:03 |
SSlash |
Calinou, Distribution of what? |
| 11:04 |
Calinou |
what OS? |
| 11:04 |
SSlash |
Win 7 |
| 11:04 |
Calinou |
oh, compiling on Windows |
| 11:04 |
SSlash |
yep |
| 11:04 |
Calinou |
get a virtual machine, install Debian on it and build inside it |
| 11:04 |
Calinou |
much easier |
| 11:05 |
SSlash |
I have Archlinux. Is it able to build it? |
| 11:05 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 11:05 |
Calinou |
there's an AUR package too |
| 11:07 |
ElectronLibre |
Building on Windows for the first time is plain horrible. You have to specify manually the path to at least 8 libraries, with their libs, includes, sources, etc... |
| 11:08 |
SSlash |
But, I want to have it on Windows. I want to learn a C++ with digging minetest :) So i started with attempts to build it on windows. |
| 11:09 |
SSlash |
Sorry for my bad english |
| 11:09 |
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| 11:09 |
SSlash |
English* |
| 11:10 |
ElectronLibre |
Ok, so, have you downloaded every library? |
| 11:10 |
ElectronLibre |
(I'm gonna try to help you but I couldn't compile minetest on Win since SQLite3 lib and sources are needed) |
| 11:11 |
sfan5 |
Xack: why would minetest restrict the amount of hud elements? |
| 11:12 |
SSlash |
ElectronLibre, no. I Tried to find OpenAL an found just sources of it. About Freetype - there said nothing about windows: http://www.freetype.org/ |
| 11:12 |
ElectronLibre |
I've never been able to use freetype for Windows, but it has never been a problem for me. |
| 11:12 |
sfan5 |
SSlash: you can cross-compile for windows from linux using the buildbot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/util/buildbot; alternatively you can just run the buildbot to download the libraries |
| 11:13 |
SSlash |
It downloads libraries for linux? |
| 11:14 |
sfan5 |
no, libraries for windows |
| 11:14 |
SSlash |
Only? |
| 11:14 |
SSlash |
oh |
| 11:14 |
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| 11:14 |
* DusXMT |
's experience when compiling for windows: Get MinGW, crawl the dependency tree, compiling all the needed libraries, and then finally after a couple of days compile the actual thing |
| 11:15 |
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| 11:18 |
SSlash |
Couple days.. So I have today and tomorrow and intend to compile minetest with MSVC |
| 11:19 |
SSlash |
*Couple of days |
| 11:28 |
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| 11:28 |
Thron |
hi there |
| 11:34 |
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| 11:35 |
SSlash |
OpenAL: Install - Installation complete. And.. and nothing! Where is my "include" dir? Where is my "OpenAL32.lib" file? "C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenAL\" dir does not contains them :/ |
| 11:35 |
SSlash |
Does not contain* |
| 11:36 |
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| 11:37 |
Thron |
are any players from LinuxGaming server online? |
| 11:38 |
CWz |
I play there sometimes |
| 11:44 |
Xack |
sfan5: uh |
| 11:44 |
Xack |
sfan5: to stop malicious mods? idk |
| 11:45 |
sfan5 |
Xack: just go to another server |
| 11:45 |
sfan5 |
(if some servers has this mod installed) |
| 11:55 |
Xack |
sfan5: what. |
| 11:55 |
Xack |
i made it myself |
| 11:55 |
Xack |
on my testserver |
| 11:55 |
Xack |
im asking do you know why it doesn't work lol |
| 11:56 |
sfan5 |
Xack: be more clear pls |
| 11:56 |
sfan5 |
no idea |
| 11:56 |
sfan5 |
the hud api is magic |
| 11:56 |
Xack |
sfan5: please |
| 11:56 |
Xack |
(123842) Xack │ sfan5: https://gist.github.com/f0c4a98de61d78a2b3ae |
| 11:56 |
Xack |
(123845) Xack │ is that meant to work? |
| 11:56 |
Xack |
how could i be any more clear lel |
| 11:57 |
sfan5 |
"why doesn't that work?" |
| 11:57 |
Xack |
that's the same thing |
| 11:57 |
Xack |
almost |
| 11:57 |
Xack |
because one is yes/no |
| 11:57 |
Xack |
and the other is a reason |
| 11:57 |
Xack |
what's so hard about that :P |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:06 |
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| 12:13 |
Xack |
sfan5: apertron.net:29999 to see lenny in his glory |
| 12:14 |
sfan5 |
k |
| 12:15 |
Xack |
:( |
| 12:15 |
sfan5 |
Xack: ERROR[main]: Connection timed out. |
| 12:16 |
Xack |
wat. |
| 12:16 |
Xack |
try again(?) |
| 12:16 |
sfan5 |
k |
| 12:18 |
Xack |
sfan5: https://gist.github.com/1ee7de211317651e6d1e |
| 12:18 |
sfan5 |
>soil |
| 12:19 |
sfan5 |
>explody |
| 12:19 |
sfan5 |
i think you forgot some group |
| 12:19 |
Xack |
pls gib group name |
| 12:19 |
sfan5 |
no idea |
| 12:20 |
Xack |
:( |
| 12:21 |
Xack |
gah! |
| 12:31 |
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| 12:53 |
technomancy |
Xack: hi hi. are you the quicklisp guy? |
| 12:55 |
technomancy |
or is that Xach with an H? |
| 12:57 |
sfan5 |
>lisp |
| 13:00 |
Xack |
technomancy: haha, no :P |
| 13:00 |
Xack |
Xach |
| 13:00 |
Xack |
sfan5: but but parens! |
| 13:00 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 13:00 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 13:01 |
Xack |
(defun sfan (hi) (format t hi)) (sfan "pls") |
| 13:01 |
sfan5 |
pls |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
:D |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
sfan5: wanna play MT \w me |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
? |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
w/ |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
meh. |
| 13:02 |
Xack |
apertron.net:30000 if you are interested |
| 13:02 |
sfan5 |
maybe |
| 13:03 |
Xack |
technomancy: kinda a coincidence because i do really like common lisp :P |
| 13:03 |
Xack |
but nah, i'm not Xach |
| 13:03 |
Xack |
sfan5: free lenny block if u connect |
| 13:07 |
sfan5 |
Xack: pls gib |
| 13:08 |
Xack |
sec |
| 13:18 |
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| 13:33 |
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| 13:45 |
Telesight |
To build a server do you really use SQlite? |
| 13:46 |
DusXMT |
Telesight: I think sqlite is used for storing the worlds, but I might be wrong |
| 13:47 |
ElectronLibre |
It is true, you need Sqlite, or another library instead (Redis, etc..) |
| 13:47 |
Telesight |
I was looking at the used databases, I expected MySQL or someting like that |
| 13:50 |
Telesight |
CAn SQlite handle 20 users or more then ? |
| 13:50 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 13:51 |
sfan5 |
the database only stores the world |
| 13:51 |
sfan5 |
so it doesn't really matter how many people do you have |
| 13:52 |
Telesight |
sfan5: Ok and where is the userinformation stored then ... |
| 13:52 |
sfan5 |
text files |
| 13:52 |
Telesight |
Ah, ok |
| 13:53 |
Telesight |
I live more in the world of MySQL, Postgress etc. ;-) |
| 13:54 |
sfan5 |
minetest can theoretically support mysql/postgres |
| 13:54 |
sfan5 |
but nobody wrote any code for that yet |
| 13:54 |
Telesight |
Ok |
| 13:55 |
Telesight |
The minetestserver installs SQLite too I think ... |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
if you want you can also use LevelDB and redis |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
or* |
| 13:56 |
Telesight |
SQLite is used a lot in thsi world ... |
| 13:58 |
Telesight |
I go for SQLite if I read the remarks overhere: http://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends |
| 13:58 |
exio4 |
sfan5: "it can theorically support X" seems a pretty useless remark :p |
| 13:58 |
sfan5 |
i know |
| 13:59 |
sfan5 |
i meant it more like "it wouldn't require huge changes in the code to support X" |
| 13:59 |
Telesight |
I understand what he wants to say ;-) |
| 14:00 |
Telesight |
Never use that remark in coorporation with clients ;-) |
| 14:01 |
exio4 |
sfan5: I also knew what you meant :p |
| 14:03 |
technomancy |
this seems like a case where database agnosticism is thoroughly unwarranted |
| 14:03 |
Telesight |
EXplain ... |
| 14:04 |
technomancy |
Telesight: well I was thinking that sqlite wouldn't be a speed bottleneck, but now I see from the wiki that may not be the case |
| 14:04 |
technomancy |
swapping out sqlite for redis would make sense, but swapping it out for postgres probably wouldn't |
| 14:06 |
technomancy |
(because the advantage of postgres isn't speed, it's improved data integrity, but since you only have one server accessing any given DB at a time, who cares?) |
| 14:06 |
technomancy |
that said, there are likely more requirements relevant to the question than my superficial glance has uncovered |
| 14:06 |
exio4 |
I was going to say you may want to use a non hipster database with somewhat proven data integrity :> |
| 14:07 |
Telesight |
Well I was surprised not to see MySQL (or like) but SQLIte and that for a system like Minetest . |
| 14:08 |
Telesight |
I thought SQLIte was developed for mobile apparatus |
| 14:08 |
Telesight |
but time goes fast ... |
| 14:08 |
exio4 |
anyway, sqlite is pretty safe |
| 14:09 |
technomancy |
exio4: "integrity" is an interesting concept in a distributed world like this. you have multiple divergent timelines and have to come up with a single canonical one, but at some point the rules you use to do this may feel arbitrary from a gameplay perspective |
| 14:09 |
exio4 |
technomancy: Minetest client don't really do much by themselves |
| 14:09 |
exio4 |
clients} |
| 14:09 |
technomancy |
exio4: right, but integrity is measured against the observation of humans |
| 14:10 |
technomancy |
practically speaking |
| 14:10 |
exio4 |
I am not worried about that kind of integrity then |
| 14:11 |
exio4 |
also, have you heard about that problem with SSDs where they "forget" data after a few months? |
| 14:11 |
Telesight |
Some do not want integrity .... that said I will come back later for detailquestions I think ... |
| 14:11 |
exio4 |
I would like to know why someone would dislike integrity, when it is cheap |
| 14:12 |
Telesight |
That was a moral reaction ;-) |
| 14:12 |
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| 14:15 |
Calinou |
MySQL would be too much for a thing like Minetest, so we went with SQLite |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
you can still use Redis if you want client-server database |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
which is the trendy one |
| 14:16 |
Calinou |
we used to use sectors |
| 14:16 |
Calinou |
ie. flat files to disk, before 0.2_20110922 |
| 14:17 |
technomancy |
yeah, I'm of the opinion that database choices are like exes. |
| 14:17 |
technomancy |
err--other peoples' database choices are like other peoples' exes. |
| 14:17 |
technomancy |
you don't have the whole story, and you don't want the whole story. |
| 14:19 |
Telesight |
CAlinou thanks I will dive into it ... |
| 14:22 |
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| 14:22 |
exio4 |
technomancy: it's just that the hipster hype nowdays is "dude, X is crap, we MUST replace it", so they replace it with something untested, unproven, and crappy, and we end with something else that sucks even more \o/ |
| 14:23 |
technomancy |
exio4: yes but mysql *is* crap |
| 14:23 |
technomancy |
you just need to replace it with postgres =D |
| 14:23 |
exio4 |
I didn't say it wasn't |
| 14:23 |
exio4 |
sure |
| 14:23 |
exio4 |
I am talking about "SQL is the worst, NoSQL is da best!1!!" |
| 14:23 |
exio4 |
mongodb is web scale while we are at it |
| 14:24 |
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| 14:28 |
technomancy |
mongodb is hilarious |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
do you know what I hate most |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
the whole talk about "performance tradeoffs" and talking like they are not worth it |
| 14:31 |
exio4 |
I am not saying they are worth it everytime you can do it |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
but if you are looking at that, it may be |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
anyway, Redis keeps everything in RAM? |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
what's the overhead? |
| 14:35 |
technomancy |
we used redis for a couple things at my last gig |
| 14:35 |
technomancy |
at one point the redis server process's uptime was longer than any of us had been at the company |
| 14:36 |
technomancy |
is it just me, or is the hardest thing about getting people to take minetest seriously the fact that it's named "minetest"? |
| 14:37 |
ElectronLibre |
Specifically the "test" at the end? Yes, it is. |
| 14:37 |
technomancy |
"Yeah, I've been playing this FOSS minecraft-like game; it's really easy to mod and runs faster than minecraft on my box." / "Really, what's it called" / "err---actually... um. minetest. but it's actually really cool, trust me" |
| 14:38 |
technomancy |
followed by an extremely skeptical look |
| 14:39 |
Calinou |
not worse than “Terasology†whose 25% of people only manage to spell it right :P |
| 14:45 |
technomancy |
I've done a bit of searching looking to see if anyone's done a mod to teach lua programming (or programming in general) using minetest |
| 14:46 |
technomancy |
haven't found anything yet, but I wonder if such a thing would be well-received |
| 14:47 |
Amaz |
This isn't a mod, but it's a great resource for starting to mod: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ |
| 14:47 |
FreeFull |
Minetest on android doesn't seem to be too stable |
| 14:48 |
technomancy |
Amaz: yeah... that seems kinda like the inverse |
| 14:48 |
technomancy |
learning to program in order to learn to mod, instead of learning to mod in order to learn to program |
| 14:48 |
technomancy |
related but different |
| 14:49 |
Amaz |
Ah, okay. |
| 14:50 |
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| 14:52 |
technomancy |
I've read some threads of people saying how cool it would be to use minetest in education, but that's as far as it's gone |
| 14:53 |
CWz |
EduTest |
| 14:53 |
FreeFull |
minelearn |
| 14:54 |
CWz |
dirt + dirt = 2 dirt |
| 14:54 |
technomancy |
I started making some challenges and stuff in computercraft with its Lua turtles, but I got kind of uncomfortable sinking a lot of effort into a platform that's not free software |
| 14:55 |
CWz |
i do not understand how minetest can be used for education |
| 14:55 |
technomancy |
CWz: have you heard of Logo? |
| 14:56 |
FreeFull |
Turtle graphics |
| 14:56 |
FreeFull |
I want to give writing a minetest map generator a go at some point |
| 14:56 |
CWz |
isn't turtle kind of old |
| 14:57 |
* DusXMT |
would just throw Python in classrooms; it's easy to pick up, and it can teach the kids many important things |
| 14:57 |
technomancy |
http://el.media.mit.edu/logo-foundation/logo/ |
| 14:58 |
technomancy |
CWz: exactly. a turtle that can just draw lines feels pretty dated. what about a turtle that can place blocks and dig mines? |
| 14:58 |
technomancy |
"For most people, learning Logo is not an end in itself, and programming is always about something. Logo programming activities are in mathematics, language, music, robotics, telecommunications, and science." |
| 14:59 |
technomancy |
DusXMT: I don't find that "just throw X in a classroom" ever works out well. learning happens when children want to explore a topic, not when adults talk at them. |
| 14:59 |
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| 15:00 |
exio4 |
CWz: programming is more about the logical thinking needed for it |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:00 |
exio4 |
DusXMT: Python is a badly designed language though |
| 15:00 |
exio4 |
DusXMT: it sure looks cute, yet it lots of simple things really wrong |
| 15:01 |
DusXMT |
exio4: might be, I don't use it myself, I just propagate what I've heard |
| 15:01 |
technomancy |
if I were going to teach in a conventional context I would use Racket; it has excellent literature and approachable tooling |
| 15:02 |
exio4 |
I agree with technomancy |
| 15:02 |
technomancy |
but I'm willing to use Lua even if it's not quite as nice if it captures the kids' imaginations |
| 15:02 |
exio4 |
I like lua as it is a simple language :P |
| 15:04 |
technomancy |
I was delighted to learn it has TCO =) |
| 15:04 |
bordon |
And what about scratch in kid's education? |
| 15:04 |
technomancy |
you don't even have to teach loops! |
| 15:04 |
technomancy |
bordon: scratch is fantastic for very early learners |
| 15:04 |
technomancy |
(FWIW Logo is considered an ancestor of Scratch) |
| 15:04 |
technomancy |
I know of nothing better for kids who don't know how to type |
| 15:04 |
bordon |
I'm not programmer but scratch looks very simply |
| 15:05 |
DusXMT |
technomancy: I think you're right; I guess I just have bad memories about turtle since out computer teachers were incapable back when I was at elementary school... |
| 15:05 |
FreeFull |
I wonder how difficult it is to move on from Scratch to something more complex/traditional |
| 15:05 |
technomancy |
bordon: it's very good for exploring mathematical concepts like velocity or gravity |
| 15:06 |
bordon |
my dauther has it in her school |
| 15:06 |
bordon |
she is 12 :) |
| 15:07 |
technomancy |
DusXMT: understandable. if you're stuck in a class and the instructor can't muster up enthusiasm for a topic you might as well not be there IMO. |
| 15:07 |
technomancy |
bordon: does she like it? |
| 15:07 |
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| 15:07 |
bordon |
she not but me - very |
| 15:07 |
technomancy |
heh |
| 15:07 |
technomancy |
bordon: maybe if the two of you step through and build something together it would help |
| 15:08 |
Thron |
hi, anyone have a idea why LinuxGaming server off?? |
| 15:08 |
bordon |
technomancy: I'll try, thats very good idea |
| 15:08 |
technomancy |
bordon: I know of some folks who have had a lot of success building something based around something the kids are already into |
| 15:08 |
technomancy |
bordon: like getting some sprites from Frozen imported into Scratch or something |
| 15:09 |
technomancy |
maybe even some mp3s |
| 15:09 |
Thron |
where can im find Miner_48er |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:11 |
CWz |
Miner_48er is not on now. maybe in a few hours. seems that the entire vps is down. so I guess someone forgot to pay bills |
| 15:12 |
Thron |
o crap... dont sound good. I really must get a backup of the world... PUT ALLOT OFF WORK into mt buildings :( |
| 15:12 |
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| 15:13 |
Thron |
CWz, do you know miner personaly. cant you give a email. |
| 15:13 |
CWz |
I don't |
| 15:13 |
Thron |
cant find any admin. Lazy also gone :( |
| 15:14 |
Thron |
noob101 |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:16 |
Thron |
any of them online or someone no them? |
| 15:16 |
ElectronLibre |
In my opinion you would more likely find them on InchraNet rather than here. |
| 15:16 |
Thron |
LazyJ |
| 15:16 |
Thron |
Mind |
| 15:16 |
Thron |
Miner_48er |
| 15:16 |
Thron |
Orby (server owner) |
| 15:16 |
Thron |
Sokomine |
| 15:16 |
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Thron was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
LinuxGaming server is not, as far as I know, on Inchra. |
| 15:19 |
VanessaE |
(or rather, hasn't been) |
| 15:19 |
technomancy |
I'm sure this has been discussed, but would it make sense to drop new minetest players into a world that's pre-populated with some kind of in-game explanation of the way minetest is structured around mods and stuff? |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:19 |
technomancy |
seems like otherwise people are just going to judge it based on minetest_game which kinda misses the point |
| 15:19 |
Calinou |
there's a Tutorial world made by Wuzzy |
| 15:19 |
ElectronLibre |
Maybe not VanessaE, but its admins ight be on it. |
| 15:19 |
Thron |
Electronic im new to this, can you direct me there? |
| 15:20 |
VanessaE |
true enough |
| 15:20 |
technomancy |
Calinou: right... you kinda need to go digging for it though |
| 15:20 |
ElectronLibre |
For example, I know Miner_48 always connect on Inhcra in the afternoon. |
| 15:20 |
ElectronLibre |
(at evening her in France) |
| 15:21 |
Thron |
thx.. but were and how do i get there. I am really new to this irc stuff :( |
| 15:22 |
ElectronLibre |
Ok. |
| 15:22 |
ElectronLibre |
So, you're using XChat. |
| 15:22 |
Thron |
yes :) |
| 15:22 |
Thron |
is here better than Xchat? |
| 15:23 |
ElectronLibre |
Open the server list first, then click on add. Enter "InchraNet" as name (you may put anything it would be the same), then select it, and click modify. |
| 15:23 |
Thron |
i am on windows |
| 15:23 |
ElectronLibre |
I would say.. HexChat, its maintened OpenSource non-shareware fork. |
| 15:25 |
ElectronLibre |
In the configuration window for InchraNet : address : irc.inchra.net/6667 (or irc.inchra.net:6697 if you enable SSL, don't forget if you do so, to click "Ignore invalid certificates"). |
| 15:27 |
Sokomine |
Thron: how can i help you? |
| 15:28 |
Thron |
ok something happing now :) |
| 15:28 |
Sokomine |
what's up? i don't have much time right now |
| 15:29 |
Sokomine |
ah. that the server is offline...i'm sure lazyj will bring it up again as soon as possible |
| 15:29 |
Thron |
Soko what is going on with Linuxgaming? |
| 15:29 |
Sokomine |
it's some extended maintenance. lazyj wrote about it in the forum post |
| 15:30 |
Thron |
Soko.. really i put in allot in building there.. can i have a backup of my world. just incase :( |
| 15:30 |
Thron |
i browsed forum.. nothing :( |
| 15:31 |
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| 15:32 |
Sokomine |
Thron: have a bit of patience, please. and when it comes back up, remember to enable local map saving in your client. just add "enable_local_map_saving = true", and all you see on servers you join will be saved on your disk |
| 15:32 |
Sokomine |
i can't do anything right now. i'll ask lazyj about the current status later when i have more time |
| 15:32 |
Thron |
Soko, if its just for single player.. just to have a backup of it :) BIG PLEASE :) |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:33 |
WSDguy2014 |
Guys, i can't find mod "Orespawn" by Calinou. Can help me? |
| 15:33 |
Thron |
thx got that message Soko. ill dig into that command line |
| 15:35 |
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| 15:49 |
Thron |
Soko you still online? |
| 16:03 |
TheWild |
I think we need few additional operations for texture manipulation. In some cases modders wish to create same block, though with many different colors (e.g. 20 colors of grass). It is however not very convenient to create 20 different texutres. |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:03 |
TheWild |
Nice thing would be multiplication `*` which multiplies each of the RGB channels from one texture with RGB channels with another, not necessarily texture. |
| 16:03 |
TheWild |
Then one could draw a white/gray grass and make it green by doing "grass.png*([colorize:#80FF80])" |
| 16:04 |
TheWild |
Also, addition `+` and subtraction `-` could help if someone wants to brighten/darken texture without increasing/decreasing its contrast. |
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| 16:36 |
Calinou |
I never made that mod, ws |
| 16:37 |
ElectronLibre |
He might be talking about moreores then. |
| 16:38 |
sfan5 |
TheWild: why not just grass.png^[colorize:#80FF80 |
| 16:39 |
TheWild |
colorize does not do it's job very well because of bringing it's own alpha channel to it. I mean even completely black points become greener what wouldn't happen with multiplication |
| 16:39 |
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| 16:48 |
TheWild |
even without additional parameter [colorize overlays texture completely |
| 16:58 |
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| 17:06 |
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| 17:11 |
TheWild |
Why throwing was made the way it requires more "effort" to throw single item than to throw whole stack. Don't you think this may cause annoying accidents? |
| 17:18 |
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| 17:21 |
est31 |
? |
| 17:21 |
est31 |
on android? |
| 17:22 |
TheWild |
no, I meant that Q throws whole stack instead of throwing single item |
| 17:22 |
TheWild |
consider: I want to give some guy single item so I'm intuitively pressing Q and... crap, the guy took whole stack. Grrrr...! |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:26 |
Xack |
aw |
| 17:27 |
Xack |
TIL really big images (32MB) crashes the MT server |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:32 |
Sokomine |
Thron: no, it's not a command line. it's a setting for your minetest.conf and will save all worlds you visit to your local disc. while i'm pretty sure that linuxgaming.us will be up soon again, other servers tend to just vanish with all the buildings on them |
| 17:34 |
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| 17:34 |
Sokomine |
thewild: use an exchange chest. that's usually less trouble. and place your drop command on soemthing you're less likely to press. for me, L is drop (for "loose item") |
| 17:34 |
desvox |
I've updated my OreWood mod, if anyone is interested. Now you can grow and harvest ore too. https://github.com/desvox/orewood |
| 17:35 |
Sokomine |
orewood? :-) sounds funny |
| 17:36 |
desvox |
Sokomine: It is...unusual. |
| 17:36 |
desvox |
I was sick of digging though. |
| 17:38 |
CWz |
is it possible for a mod to turn a player invisible completely |
| 17:38 |
Xack |
hi |
| 17:38 |
Xack |
anybody managed to increase MAX_RELIABLE_WINDOW_SIZE successfully? |
| 17:38 |
TheWild |
Sokomine: the dropping is not only for giving stuff to other player. It's something that I think should be fixed, since it's more intuitive to just press some key to drop single item and use additional modifier key like emphasis to throw whole stack. |
| 17:39 |
TheWild |
Sokomine: modifier key should generally not mean "prevent" |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:41 |
TheWild |
CWz: maybe by overriding its texture to completely transparent or altering its visual_size |
| 17:45 |
TheWild |
desvox: and this is nice idea |
| 17:48 |
desvox |
TheWild: Thanks! This is actually my first mod. I've been brainstorming them for god knows how long, and I'm finally going to start cranking them out. I've been putting this off too long. |
| 17:49 |
TheWild |
finally renewable coal and diamonds |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
CWz, no, name tag will always appear |
| 17:53 |
ElectronLibre |
Remove the player entity. |
| 17:54 |
ElectronLibre |
player:remove() is maybe a bad idea, but will make the player completly invisible. I recall it worked for me with 0.4.9, and the deleted client could still walk/interact. |
| 17:54 |
TheWild |
Calinou: I'm not sure. I played on one server on which skins mod seemed messed up and it sometimes made a player without texture, even without name tag. |
| 17:54 |
TheWild |
I'm testing something related right now |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:01 |
Sokomine |
TheWild: i don't know. whenever i want to drop just a single item, i put that single item into an extra slot first |
| 18:02 |
ElectronLibre |
Sneak + drop <= Drop a single item. |
| 18:03 |
TheWild |
Sokomine: as you can see, it's workaround - still quite impractical |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:09 |
TheWild |
if someone likes to test random scripts at runtime, here is 16-liner: https://github.com/beyondlimits/minetest-console/blob/master/init.lua |
| 18:14 |
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| 18:49 |
Krock |
TheWild, why not tabs? |
| 18:52 |
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| 18:59 |
TheWild |
Krock: tabs? |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:00 |
Krock |
TheWild, the 'dynamic space', mostly written as '\t' |
| 19:02 |
TheWild |
oh, this. I switched my editor to always use spaces, because... well, I don't remember the case right now. |
| 19:02 |
Calinou |
>2015 >tabs |
| 19:02 |
est31 |
minetest uses tabs |
| 19:03 |
Calinou |
my Web projects use 2-spaces now |
| 19:03 |
Calinou |
way more readable than 4 spaces, also spaces are the only kind of indentation that shows universally |
| 19:03 |
exio4 |
tabs fail badly |
| 19:03 |
exio4 |
est31: sadly |
| 19:04 |
est31 |
exio4, explain |
| 19:04 |
exio4 |
they can't be used for alignment |
| 19:04 |
exio4 |
=> you need to rely on spaces |
| 19:04 |
exio4 |
=> you have to mix them |
| 19:04 |
est31 |
or you dont align |
| 19:05 |
est31 |
source code isnt ascii art |
| 19:05 |
exio4 |
sounds like a nice solution to a problem |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
pls4 4 space-long tabs. |
| 19:06 |
Calinou |
yeah, use spaces to align, good practice |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
so yes if you want to align you have to use spaces |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
we have this problem in the android makefile |
| 19:08 |
est31 |
because there we have tabs at the left, and spaces at the right |
| 19:08 |
est31 |
horrible |
| 19:08 |
est31 |
if just git wouldnt complain when you mixed them |
| 19:09 |
est31 |
spaces are bad because they are illocical |
| 19:10 |
est31 |
tabs are logical |
| 19:10 |
est31 |
you just state "this is indented" |
| 19:10 |
est31 |
not "here are two spaces" |
| 19:10 |
est31 |
or three |
| 19:11 |
est31 |
so basically its not tabs vs spaces |
| 19:11 |
est31 |
but tabs vs 1 space, vs 2 spaces, vs 3 spaces and so on |
| 19:12 |
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| 19:14 |
TheWild |
I can't even ask google about why I switched to spaces long time ago |
| 19:14 |
TheWild |
normally at work I'm using tabs |
| 19:14 |
exio4 |
I got tired of not being able to make my look nice :p |
| 19:15 |
exio4 |
and switching to languages which pretty much disallow using tabs nicely.. |
| 19:15 |
exio4 |
made me fully convert |
| 19:15 |
est31 |
? |
| 19:15 |
exio4 |
est31: F# disallows tabs, GHC considers tab as 8 spaces |
| 19:16 |
est31 |
what the hell |
| 19:16 |
est31 |
why does f# do that |
| 19:17 |
exio4 |
one of the sane things of the language 8) |
| 19:17 |
hmmmm |
tabs vs. spaces is a very political issue |
| 19:18 |
hmmmm |
tabs ultimately win out for me because of one simple reason: you have choice. |
| 19:18 |
est31 |
^ |
| 19:18 |
est31 |
(^ for the political part) |
| 19:18 |
exio4 |
hmmmm: it's a false sense of choice |
| 19:18 |
hmmmm |
i have pretty bad eyesight. 2 space indents are simply too hard for me to visually differentiate. i prefer 4 space indentations, but that might be too much for somebody else |
| 19:18 |
est31 |
I have ported csrp to tabs because the space identation differed from level to level |
| 19:19 |
hmmmm |
they don't like 4 spaces? |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
so the first level was idented by 4 spaces |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
err 3 |
| 19:19 |
hmmmm |
that's okay, they can just reduce it |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
all folowing levels were idented by 4 spaces |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
this is where I said, no thank you |
| 19:20 |
hmmmm |
all of my projects will always be tabs |
| 19:20 |
hmmmm |
i will never consider spaces. |
| 19:20 |
hmmmm |
i will never work on projects with spaces either. |
| 19:20 |
Calinou |
haters gonna hate |
| 19:21 |
est31 |
I can understand hmmmm. |
| 19:24 |
exio4 |
sure |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:25 |
est31 |
the issue with tabs is the tabstop |
| 19:26 |
est31 |
if tabs just were simple "ident with a constant number of spaces", you could safely mix tabs with spaces |
| 19:26 |
est31 |
and then get alignment |
| 19:27 |
hmmmm |
that's the way they almost always work with code editors |
| 19:27 |
est31 |
it hasn't been the original way |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
besides, mixing spaces with tabs just can't be done by principle |
| 19:28 |
est31 |
why |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
"a disadvantage of tabs is that you can't mix it with spaces" |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
well what about spaces |
| 19:28 |
hmmmm |
"a disadvantage with spaces is that you can't mix it with tabs" |
| 19:28 |
exio4 |
no, it's just that tabs only do one thing decently, and that's identation |
| 19:29 |
exio4 |
spaces can be used for that and alignment |
| 19:29 |
exio4 |
it's more like that if you want to align your code, you'll need to mix or give up the reality of being able to switch the tab size |
| 19:29 |
est31 |
true |
| 19:31 |
est31 |
you can't mix tabs with spaces because of the tabstop |
| 19:31 |
est31 |
even this admits it: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TabsAreEvil#BadStyle |
| 19:31 |
exio4 |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elastictabstops_animation.gif |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
about ^: https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 19:32 |
exio4 |
est31: that's what I thought too :> |
| 19:33 |
TheWild |
there are cases when tabs fail unfortunately: http://pastebin.com/V7r1Jt0D |
| 19:33 |
Calinou |
why would you use tabs in 2015? that's the real question |
| 19:34 |
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| 19:34 |
exio4 |
TheWild: that's alignment |
| 19:34 |
exio4 |
it doesn't help if your language cares about the layout |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
the only sensible reason is using it on existing projects |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
I'll keep using 4-tabs on my Minetest mods as it's the standard |
| 19:35 |
est31 |
Calinou, whats your reason why you prefer spaces? |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
spaces force my editor to do smart things for me |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
or I type 4 times backspace when I remove a tab level |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
ok thats a shit argument |
| 19:36 |
est31 |
disregard that |
| 19:37 |
exio4 |
I think even nano handles that? |
| 19:37 |
exio4 |
maybe not, I am not sure |
| 19:40 |
Calinou |
yeah, all good editors handle them as “soft tabs†|
| 19:41 |
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| 19:42 |
TenPlus1 |
Hi folks... any devs available to help me with a constant std:bad_alloc error ? |
| 19:43 |
Calinou |
they're in #minetest-dev |
| 19:43 |
Calinou |
but make an issue on GitHub or forum first |
| 19:43 |
TenPlus1 |
I have done that already and no joy... |
| 19:43 |
TenPlus1 |
and minetest-dev wont let me post to the room |
| 19:44 |
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| 19:45 |
est31 |
TenPlus1, in order to post on minetest-dev, you have to get a "proper" chat client |
| 19:45 |
TenPlus1 |
oh, so the forum link wont let me chat there... would xchat do ? |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
yes |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
or hexchat |
| 19:46 |
* est31 |
uses hexchat |
| 19:46 |
TenPlus1 |
is that the java one ? |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
no, its based on xchat |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
because oss development on xchat stopped |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
(dead client) |
| 19:47 |
TenPlus1 |
ah kewl, will check that one... thanks |
| 19:47 |
ElectronLibre |
It's a maintened fork basically. |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
yes |
| 19:47 |
TenPlus1 |
lol, all this to find out what's causing an error... *adventure!!!* |
| 19:48 |
est31 |
you said the error were "constant". This usually means its fixable. |
| 19:50 |
TenPlus1 |
I hope so, the players on the server are getting very annoyed... if it were a mod then I could at least find it myself... |
| 19:53 |
TenPlus1 |
ahh, hexchat :) bye |
| 19:53 |
exio4 |
est31: lol |
| 19:55 |
TheWild |
I was testing hexchat for a while today but it seems it does not allow me to connect to two servers simultaneously |
| 19:57 |
exio4 |
it does |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:07 |
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TheWild_ joined #minetest |
| 20:08 |
TheWild_ |
hexchat: what a great piece of software. My identification failed because it spammed me about #hexchat channel. Now I have to wait 15 minutes to have my nickname available again. |
| 20:11 |
Amaz |
TheWild_, try /msg nickserv regain TheWild password |
| 20:12 |
desvox |
I'm actually using thunderbird's IRC client =P |
| 20:12 |
desvox |
I usually use Irssi but figured why the fuck not. |
| 20:16 |
TheWild_ |
is "chat.freenode.net" correct address or should I left only "irc.freenode.net"? |
| 20:16 |
ElectronLibre |
It's the same; |
| 20:17 |
ElectronLibre |
irc.freenode.net sends you to the original address (chat.freenode.net). |
| 20:18 |
TheWild_ |
" No Ident response", "TheWild is already in use. Retrying with ...", "No nickname given" |
| 20:18 |
ElectronLibre |
No ident response : Don't care, it's not that useful. |
| 20:19 |
ElectronLibre |
TheWild is already in use : Impossible. |
| 20:19 |
ElectronLibre |
See with /whois TheWild |
| 20:21 |
TheWild |
oh good, I brought back myself on webchat |
| 20:24 |
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| 21:06 |
paigegirl |
hi :)\ |
| 21:07 |
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| 22:45 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Schematics: Add per-node force placement option 2b99d90 http://git.io/vUsFP (2015-05-09T18:44:00-04:00) |
| 22:50 |
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