| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
compunerd |
Haven't worked with them yet though... I thought with containers, they all had to be the same OS... |
| 00:00 |
Megaf |
They all do share the same kernel |
| 00:00 |
compunerd |
Ok... that makes sense |
| 00:01 |
Megaf |
but each container can have its own physical hard disk and NIC for example, if you want maximum performance |
| 00:01 |
Megaf |
or you can use a partition as container disk, or disk disk images |
| 00:02 |
Megaf |
Unfortunately I can't run Windows on a container. (In a Linux host that is) |
| 00:02 |
compunerd |
Ok... I definitely need to check into that... can you direct me to a good resource? |
| 00:03 |
Megaf |
The default container for linux is LXC |
| 00:03 |
Megaf |
wich I dont use and dont like |
| 00:03 |
Megaf |
Im using an outdated solution called OpenVZ |
| 00:03 |
Megaf |
still using kernel 2.6.x |
| 00:03 |
Megaf |
but the management of OpenVZ is amazing |
| 00:03 |
benrob0329 |
Problem, set_node apparently doesnt work for ungenerated chunks |
| 00:03 |
benrob0329 |
even when I force load it |
| 00:04 |
benrob0329 |
is there a way for me to force generation of a chunk? |
| 00:04 |
compunerd |
Why so old of a kernel? is it not compatible with newer ones? |
| 00:04 |
Megaf |
compunerd, but you might want to take a look at OpenVZ 7 |
| 00:04 |
compunerd |
Ok... I definitely will |
| 00:04 |
Megaf |
OpenVZ 7 is the current generation, its a whole OS built to run containers |
| 00:05 |
IhrFussel |
benrob0329, minetest.foreload_block(pos) I think |
| 00:05 |
IhrFussel |
forceload* |
| 00:05 |
Megaf |
its almost like a hypervisor, but with much less overhead because its containers... |
| 00:05 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: even when forceloaded |
| 00:05 |
benrob0329 |
looks like minetest.emerge_area might do it |
| 00:05 |
Megaf |
I'm using OpenVZ 6. And kernel is old beucase it uses a patched Red Hat kernel |
| 00:06 |
Megaf |
these patches are not compatible with newer kernels for some reason, and development switched to OpenVZ 7 and LXC |
| 00:06 |
IhrFussel |
Oh wait...generation is different from loading |
| 00:06 |
Megaf |
compunerd, https://openvz.org/Virt-manager_support_for_Virtuozzo_7 |
| 00:06 |
Calinou |
#OccupyOpenVZ |
| 00:06 |
Calinou |
I had an OpenVZ VPS last year and hated it :( |
| 00:06 |
Calinou |
now I have a KVM one <3 |
| 00:06 |
Megaf |
compunerd, https://openvz.org/Virtuozzo |
| 00:07 |
Megaf |
Calinou, if you are the one hosting the containers then its amazing |
| 00:07 |
Calinou |
I just rent a VPS, not host them :) |
| 00:07 |
Megaf |
if your VPS runs on OpenVZ and its slow. then its just your providers fault |
| 00:07 |
Megaf |
my VPS is KVM, divided in several OpenVZ containers :) |
| 00:08 |
Megaf |
Should I serve myself another glass of wine? |
| 00:08 |
Megaf |
hm |
| 00:08 |
Calinou |
it wasn't slow, it was tiresome to manage |
| 00:09 |
Calinou |
I attempted upgrading to Ubuntu Server 16.04, had to reinstall 14.04 because the kernel was too old and couldn't be upgraded (the new libc didn't like it) |
| 00:09 |
Calinou |
also, you cannot use Docker |
| 00:09 |
Calinou |
Megaf: probably not :P |
| 00:09 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: yup, that worked |
| 00:09 |
benrob0329 |
emergingj that pos seems to have done it |
| 00:12 |
* Megaf |
serves himself another glass of wine |
| 00:12 |
Megaf |
Time to have another sip and call ger |
| 00:12 |
Megaf |
her* |
| 00:17 |
Megaf |
giving ulimited cpu usage to a container compiling software is not the wisest idea |
| 00:17 |
benrob0329 |
is there a way I can wait for emerge_area to finish? |
| 00:18 |
Calinou |
Megaf: works for me |
| 00:18 |
Calinou |
just don't use all CPU threads in the compiler :P |
| 00:18 |
Megaf |
I did that |
| 00:18 |
Megaf |
because single thread VPS... |
| 00:19 |
Megaf |
somehow websites running on other contianers still loading |
| 00:21 |
Megaf |
OK Successfully built LuaJIT |
| 00:21 |
Megaf |
Things are going well |
| 00:26 |
Megaf |
Minetest stuff is deprecated as well! |
| 00:26 |
Megaf |
return removeMember(key.c_str()); |
| 00:26 |
Megaf |
/run/shm/SourceMegafServer/lib/jsoncpp/jsoncpp.cpp: In member function ‘Json::Value Json::Value::removeMember(const string&)’: |
| 00:26 |
Megaf |
return removeMember(key.c_str()); |
| 00:27 |
Megaf |
-- *** Detected Git version 0.4.17-Megaf-7122ec8 *** |
| 00:27 |
Megaf |
I cloned backport-0.4 ^ |
| 00:27 |
Megaf |
is that git tag correct? |
| 00:33 |
* Jordach |
considered the downsides to using textured nodes |
| 00:34 |
Jordach |
not worth it until it's properly engine sideed |
| 00:35 |
Jordach |
s/textured/humid&heat based colouring/g |
| 00:40 |
Megaf |
[100%] Linking CXX executable /run/shm/SourceMegafServer/bin/minetestserver |
| 00:40 |
Megaf |
[100%] Built target minetestserver |
| 00:40 |
Megaf |
Yay |
| 00:40 |
Jordach |
paramat, retextued the snowflakes |
| 00:40 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/yihjhbepsovzehfoei.png |
| 00:42 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: noice |
| 00:43 |
* benrob0329 |
wonders why there doesnt appear to be a way to wait for wait for minetest.emerge_area |
| 00:44 |
paramat |
yeah one of my flakes was ugly |
| 00:47 |
paramat |
"a way to wait for wait for"? |
| 00:47 |
paramat |
but yes use emerge area |
| 00:48 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: its an async function, but I need it to finish before my function return |
| 00:48 |
benrob0329 |
*returns |
| 00:48 |
Jordach |
paramat, better rain particles |
| 00:48 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/oerbdscluotosdhrjc.png |
| 00:49 |
Jordach |
still 9x9 |
| 00:49 |
Jordach |
just 1x4 instead of 1x9 |
| 00:53 |
* IhrFussel |
just had an evil idea... make a command /makemeadmin and anyone who sends it gets kicked with the message "Congratz! You are now admin of your main menu" |
| 00:53 |
* Jordach |
add hailstones to snowdrift |
| 00:57 |
paramat |
ok i see what you mean by 'wait for' |
| 00:58 |
paramat |
erm, i think you can use the lua voxel manipulator to load an area |
| 00:59 |
paramat |
force load that is, worldedit does this |
| 01:02 |
Jordach |
paramat, how does or get numbers |
| 01:02 |
Jordach |
eg |
| 01:02 |
Jordach |
1 or 2 |
| 01:03 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: to load an ungenerated area? |
| 01:03 |
Jordach |
does it pick at random or is it consistent |
| 01:03 |
benrob0329 |
but isnt emerge_area part of voxelmanip..or is that a completely seperate set of functions? |
| 01:04 |
Jordach |
F |
| 01:04 |
sfan5 |
benrob0329: separate set |
| 01:05 |
sfan5 |
but why do you want confirmation of emerging? |
| 01:07 |
benrob0329 |
because all of this is for a timed sequence, and I would like to know if it succeeded or not |
| 01:07 |
sfan5 |
and that timed sequence involves? |
| 01:07 |
benrob0329 |
I suppose I can just assume it emerged fine |
| 01:08 |
benrob0329 |
replacing nodes with other nodes in order using node timers, and only changing the lever used to initiate the sequence if it started correctly |
| 01:09 |
sfan5 |
then use a vmanip? |
| 01:09 |
* benrob0329 |
looks at vmanip |
| 01:25 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:28 |
paramat |
oops i'm not sure if vmanip will generate an ungenerated area |
| 01:29 |
paramat |
lua voxel manipulator == vmanip == LVM |
| 01:29 |
paramat |
Jordach, don't know |
| 01:30 |
paramat |
lvm might just load an empty area of ignore if it's ungenerated |
| 01:37 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: so I can't use vmanip to generate an area? |
| 01:37 |
paramat |
indeed i doubt it |
| 01:38 |
* benrob0329 |
sighs |
| 01:39 |
paramat |
seems there is no way to force-generate an area and be guaranteed it is done before another piece of code |
| 01:39 |
paramat |
however you could code in a wait of a few seconds, see if it's generated, if not, wait a little longer |
| 01:40 |
paramat |
after doing emerge area |
| 01:40 |
|
Flitzpiepe joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:41 |
benrob0329 |
how would I see if it's generated? |
| 01:41 |
paramat |
you'll know it's ungenerated if you get a node with LVM and it's 'ignore' |
| 01:41 |
paramat |
i seem to remember pilzadam's nether mod does or did this |
| 01:42 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: so I have to set up a LVM just to probe a node? isn't that overkill? |
| 01:43 |
paramat |
use minetest.after to do the wait, and cycle it until the desired area is generated |
| 01:43 |
paramat |
a small overkill |
| 01:43 |
paramat |
since you're getting 1 node it's fast |
| 01:44 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:47 |
paramat |
use a 'non mapgen object lvm', just the 6 lines here https://github.com/paramat/catacomb/blob/master/init.lua#L187 |
| 01:48 |
paramat |
with pos1, pos2 defining a small volume or even just 1 node |
| 01:53 |
paramat |
also see https://github.com/PilzAdam/nether/blob/master/init.lua#L270 |
| 01:54 |
paramat |
it uses LVM to forceload a node, then uses 'node or nil' to see if that node is 'ignore', if so, uses 'emerge area' then waits 3s for generation |
| 01:55 |
paramat |
where 'target' is the position of a node |
| 02:29 |
|
compunerd joined #minetest-hub |
| 02:33 |
benrob0329 |
Oh, i give up for tonight |
| 03:05 |
compunerd |
is there anything special I need to do to get my craft recipe to work? I simply copy and pasted a similar recipe. made sure the output string was correct and altered the recipe to fit what I wanted it to be |
| 03:06 |
paramat |
host your code somewhere so we can look at it |
| 03:06 |
compunerd |
ok, hang on... lemme go to pastebin |
| 03:10 |
compunerd |
https://pastebin.com/wnpH4AUF |
| 03:16 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:30 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:45 |
paramat |
looking |
| 03:47 |
paramat |
what's the name of your mod that has this sword? |
| 03:48 |
compunerd |
It's actually added to the default mod |
| 03:49 |
paramat |
you have a custom version of default mod? |
| 03:49 |
compunerd |
And I've tried the recipe with default:silver_ingot instead of moreores:mithril_ingot to keep everything refering to the default mod |
| 03:50 |
compunerd |
Yes... Trying to write a new game altogether but haven't done any modding in a couple of years |
| 03:50 |
paramat |
ah |
| 03:53 |
compunerd |
The register_tool function is called in tools.lua and the register_craft is called in the crafting.lua file |
| 03:53 |
paramat |
hm |
| 03:54 |
paramat |
for this to work your 'default' mod must 'depend' on moreores, did you do this? |
| 03:55 |
paramat |
and check if moreores depends on default |
| 03:55 |
compunerd |
No, but like I said, I tried replacing mithril with default:silver_ingot |
| 03:56 |
compunerd |
Still didn't work |
| 03:56 |
paramat |
yeah that's what's weird |
| 03:56 |
paramat |
however my point stands |
| 03:56 |
compunerd |
The engine is minetest server 0.4 backport |
| 03:57 |
compunerd |
Yes... it does stand and I'll fix that now |
| 03:58 |
paramat |
but still, i can't see any bug, odd |
| 04:02 |
paramat |
so you place the ingredients vertically in the grid and nothing happens? |
| 04:02 |
compunerd |
Changing the depends file in default to include moreores made every node become undefined... That was extremely weird |
| 04:02 |
compunerd |
And yes |
| 04:04 |
compunerd |
I think I'll restructure the code to be a separate mod altogether and try again before troubling you guys with it... That way I can set the depends without breaking the world... lol |
| 04:05 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: is minetest.after also an async function? |
| 04:10 |
paramat |
yeah i was going to suggest making it a separate mod that depends on the other 2 |
| 04:10 |
paramat |
no after is accurate to the wait specified |
| 04:11 |
paramat |
erm if that's what you mean |
| 04:11 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: so I should be able to use it as a sleep function, correct? |
| 04:11 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 04:12 |
paramat |
well, i guess |
| 04:12 |
benrob0329 |
Ok, then something else is piling on requests, or its an async function |
| 04:13 |
paramat |
actually, no |
| 04:13 |
benrob0329 |
If its an async function, can I request a minetest.sleep(sec) be added? |
| 04:14 |
benrob0329 |
Because otherwise this logic is going to be stupid |
| 04:14 |
paramat |
i mean, a line with 'minetest.after' won't delay the line that comes after it |
| 04:15 |
paramat |
it just says 'run this function after x seconds', starts a timer for that, then goes straight on to the following line of code |
| 04:15 |
benrob0329 |
*sigh* lua doesnt even have a continue statement |
| 04:16 |
benrob0329 |
Or goto |
| 04:16 |
paramat |
any code you want delayed goes into the function that 'after' specifies |
| 04:16 |
benrob0329 |
What if I want to delay the continuation of a loop? |
| 04:17 |
paramat |
that might hang the whole server for the delay you want |
| 04:17 |
benrob0329 |
I cant, I have to duplicate the code I want to run as many times as I want to run it, and nest minetest.after |
| 04:18 |
paramat |
ok, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/binoculars/init.lua#L39 if it's relevant |
| 04:18 |
benrob0329 |
I dont even want a delay, I want to set one block |
| 04:19 |
benrob0329 |
But I can't set the block in an ungenerated mapchunk, so I have to generate the mapchunk. But I cant wait for the mapchunk to generate to see if I can set the block because the emerge function is async and we don't have a wait function. |
| 04:20 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 04:20 |
paramat |
'block'? you mean node? |
| 04:20 |
benrob0329 |
Yees |
| 04:20 |
benrob0329 |
That might work |
| 04:21 |
paramat |
btw, when a mapchunk generates, any node that isn't air or ignore will not be replaced |
| 04:21 |
benrob0329 |
Its less complex than what the nether mod was doing |
| 04:22 |
paramat |
you can assume the mapchunk will generate within x seconds, but this is not guaranteed |
| 04:23 |
paramat |
actually, mapgen doesn't replace air either, only ignore is replaced |
| 04:24 |
paramat |
you can place a node before mapgen and it should remain, as long as it's 'ground content = false' |
| 04:24 |
benrob0329 |
Ohh....ok hold on |
| 04:25 |
benrob0329 |
You might have just solved everything for me |
| 04:27 |
paramat |
worth a try |
| 04:30 |
paramat |
use LVM to load in the node, then 'set node' at that pos |
| 04:31 |
paramat |
hopefully works whether the area is generated or not |
| 04:44 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: so now the node stays there after generation, but the meta doesnt set properly |
| 04:46 |
benrob0329 |
it'll set properly if the chunk is generated, but it seems to wipe if not |
| 05:06 |
paramat |
hm |
| 05:06 |
paramat |
i'm sure you'll succeed somehow |
| 05:08 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: do I need to use voxelmanip to load, or can I just set it? |
| 05:19 |
paramat |
i think you need to load in the node before 'set node' |
| 05:21 |
paramat |
i assume the server loads in the mapblock(s) that contain the requested volume |
| 06:43 |
sofar |
red-001: #6072 needs attention, sadly (no longer compiles, or never did) |
| 06:44 |
sofar |
code move, I bet |
| 06:45 |
sofar |
bummer, was gonna test it |
| 07:30 |
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| 07:53 |
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| 08:41 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:20 |
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Lukc left #minetest-hub |
| 10:02 |
CWz |
The bun said to the hotdog; we have to ketchup with with mustard or the client wont relish the opportunity |
| 10:19 |
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sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:34 |
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Lukc joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:54 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:54 |
Megaf |
Greetings |
| 10:54 |
shivajiva |
salutations |
| 10:56 |
Megaf |
For some weird reason current 0.4 branch uses a lot of memory everytime a player joins the server |
| 10:56 |
nerzhul |
Megaf, mods is the only resposne |
| 10:56 |
Megaf |
2017-11-26 05:55:13: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: OOM error from mod '*builtin*' in callback on_joinplayer(): not enough memory |
| 10:56 |
Megaf |
2017-11-26 05:55:13: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 945 MB |
| 10:57 |
Megaf |
could be some updated mod yes |
| 10:57 |
Megaf |
I was forced to update the mods too, since server wouldnt start with old mods |
| 10:57 |
shivajiva |
just need to find which one |
| 10:58 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, I dont want to even start in finding which mod it is... |
| 11:01 |
shivajiva |
just have to wait till someone reports the same bug in a mod you use then :P |
| 11:05 |
Megaf |
nerzhul, so, with only default + areas mod active. After fresh start, 22 MB used by the server |
| 11:05 |
Megaf |
player joins. spikes to 222 MB |
| 11:05 |
Megaf |
and then it goes to 44 MB |
| 11:06 |
Megaf |
nerzhul, not a mod issue ^ |
| 11:06 |
nerzhul |
it's normal on the first player... you just load mapblocks |
| 11:06 |
Megaf |
How come I never noticed this in 5 years? |
| 11:06 |
nerzhul |
because you never verify ? also verify your mods |
| 11:07 |
Megaf |
How come I used to run this on a Raspberry Pi with 256 MB of RAM not having this issue |
| 11:07 |
nerzhul |
OOM error in lua is not due to map |
| 11:07 |
nerzhul |
just fix your mods |
| 11:07 |
Megaf |
what part of no mods you didnt understand? |
| 11:07 |
nerzhul |
i jsut don't understand why you ask for helping you to understand your problem and never lookup the path we show to you :) |
| 11:08 |
Megaf |
its on player join the memory spikes |
| 11:08 |
nerzhul |
are you serious ? what do you don't understand... player join = memory usage, player data and mapblock around him are loaded, it's... NORMAL |
| 11:08 |
shivajiva |
Megaf: does it do it without areas mod? |
| 11:09 |
Megaf |
good question, areas mod was updated too |
| 11:11 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, Its not connecting from here, can you try to connect please? mt.megaf.info |
| 11:12 |
shivajiva |
timeout :/ |
| 11:12 |
shivajiva |
port 30008? |
| 11:13 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, still spike to 244 MB of RAM without areas mod |
| 11:13 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, 30000 and 30001, but its off now |
| 11:14 |
Megaf |
30000 and 30003* |
| 11:14 |
shivajiva |
ah last port I had for you was 30008 |
| 11:14 |
Megaf |
[11:08:41] <nerzhul> are you serious ? what do you don't understand... player join = memory usage, player data and mapblock around him are loaded, it's... NORMAL |
| 11:14 |
Megaf |
That would be the case only on the first player join |
| 11:15 |
Megaf |
also, if the block is loaded memory should still be taken while the block is loaded |
| 11:15 |
Megaf |
it doesnt make sense 200MB getting freed immediately after login is completed. |
| 11:15 |
Megaf |
Or does it? |
| 11:19 |
shivajiva |
never broke it down to look at individual player load other than at the auth stage, does it happen with every player or just the first? |
| 11:21 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, lets see, can you please join? mt.megaf.info 30000 and 30003 |
| 11:21 |
Megaf |
spiked to 331 MB when you joined |
| 11:21 |
Megaf |
I will join now |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, spiked to 180 MB when I joined |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
so memory spikes when any player joins |
| 11:24 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
confirmed, 3 player joins, two in the same mapblock. Memory spike when each of them joined |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
nerzhul, ^ |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
no mods loaded |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
just default clean MTG |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
du -ms players/ |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
84 players/ |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
could that be an issue? |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
86 megabytes in the players folder |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
84* |
| 11:33 |
shivajiva |
don't see how, it's only concerned with the records of the players connected |
| 11:36 |
shivajiva |
might be worth swapping to minimal to see if it's caused by mtg |
| 11:38 |
Megaf |
will do. after breakfast |
| 11:38 |
shivajiva |
okay :) |
| 11:42 |
Megaf |
ok, back |
| 11:42 |
Megaf |
I dont have minimal game xP |
| 11:44 |
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| 11:44 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, on minimal now. Join please? |
| 11:45 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, no, wait |
| 11:45 |
Megaf |
the --gameid is ignored when gameid is set in world.mt |
| 11:47 |
shivajiva |
thought the command line options forced the correct world |
| 11:47 |
* Megaf |
will not say anything |
| 11:47 |
* Megaf |
holds itself |
| 11:47 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, anyway, just test. memory spike happens in minimal too |
| 11:47 |
Megaf |
nerzhul, ^ |
| 11:48 |
shivajiva |
excellent, at least you stopped chasing your tail |
| 11:48 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, I new from the beginning it wasnt mods fault... |
| 11:48 |
Megaf |
I've been doing this long enough to know it's a core bug... |
| 11:49 |
shivajiva |
I know but you have to show it's not to have the issue considered |
| 11:49 |
Megaf |
Time to open a github issue then? |
| 11:49 |
shivajiva |
yes I think so |
| 11:50 |
shivajiva |
if it can be reproduced it can be traced |
| 11:52 |
Megaf |
Im not sure it can be reproduced on clean new servers |
| 11:52 |
Megaf |
a lot of these bugs only manifest on large servers |
| 11:54 |
shivajiva |
I can provide large player and auth files if you think that's where it needs to be fleshed out to show the issue |
| 11:55 |
shivajiva |
but the devs will surely have such resources to hand for debugging, no doubt |
| 11:56 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:58 |
Megaf |
no need shivajiva. I will come back later with more info |
| 11:58 |
Megaf |
thanks for you attention and time. |
| 12:36 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:09 |
Shara |
Pretty sure player joins are still my servers' biggest issue as well. |
| 13:10 |
Shara |
I have noticed problems seem to start as soon as they are close enough to the player cap for connections to be refused (and in the past I have reduced the cap and still had the same result, even on player numbers that previously caused no issues) |
| 13:11 |
Shara |
But that's the point where the number of attempted joins goes up, because people are trying over and over. |
| 13:12 |
Shara |
So it seems to be the joins, rather than a high level of players behind it. |
| 13:12 |
Shara |
Might do some more tests when I have a bit more spare time. |
| 13:21 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:22 |
Megaf |
Greetings |
| 13:27 |
Shara |
Hello the Tiger. |
| 13:28 |
Megaf |
Finally finished installing Windows 10 Pro N Creators Edition in VirtualBox... |
| 13:29 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, before me opening an issue on GitHub I still want to be sure the memory peak is not related to a build flag I used |
| 13:30 |
Megaf |
we no is not cause by mods or subgame. But still can be a compiling thing, maybe |
| 13:30 |
Shara |
Megaf: I've always believe player joins to be a problem. |
| 13:30 |
Shara |
believed* |
| 13:31 |
Shara |
But haven't tested enough to give evidence sadly. |
| 13:33 |
|
sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:35 |
Megaf |
I have to retest 0.4.14 too to be sure is something new |
| 13:38 |
Megaf |
I wish the nvidia driver let me choose the amount of RAM I want to use for the GPU |
| 13:40 |
Calinou |
graphics cards have their own VRAM, so there's no point |
| 13:41 |
Calinou |
IGPs are another thing, and they don't let you choose the amount of system RAM to use for a reason |
| 13:41 |
Calinou |
because most people would shoot themselves in the foot if they did :) |
| 13:41 |
Megaf |
its integrated yes |
| 13:41 |
Megaf |
but! In my workstation if a Radeon 4200 I can chose in the BIOS the amount of RAM I want for the IGP |
| 13:42 |
Megaf |
in my 2014 Satellite with Radeon R2 it allocates memory dynamically |
| 13:42 |
Megaf |
In this nvidia IGP it just takes a big chunk of memory for nothing |
| 14:00 |
Megaf |
Whos HybridDog on IRC? |
| 14:09 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:28 |
|
Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:50 |
Krock |
Megaf, w_laenger |
| 15:02 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:03 |
Krock |
hi IhrFussel |
| 15:03 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, I cannot confirm that bug in 0.4.16 ... memory usage is constantly at 885 MB right now |
| 15:04 |
Megaf |
Memory use at 800+ MB is a bug in itself |
| 15:04 |
IhrFussel |
Nope, mapblocks are kept in RAM for 20 minutes |
| 15:05 |
IhrFussel |
I will restart in a bit though, can check RAM right after booting up |
| 15:11 |
Megaf |
Thanks IhrFussel |
| 15:14 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, You could try to change server_unload_unused_data_timeout a few times and see if that affects the RAM |
| 15:14 |
Megaf |
Indeed I could. Hold on |
| 15:15 |
IhrFussel |
Or if it at least affects the time before the memory spike is over |
| 15:15 |
Megaf |
!up mt.megaf.info |
| 15:15 |
ShadowBot |
Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30000 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused |
| 15:15 |
Megaf |
!up mt.megaf.info 30003 |
| 15:15 |
ShadowBot |
Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30003 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
try minetestbot instead |
| 15:16 |
sfan5 |
shadowbot is doing something wrong |
| 15:16 |
ShadowBot |
sfan5: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 15:16 |
Megaf |
I am actually having connectivity issues to my VPS... |
| 15:16 |
sfan5 |
can't even have shadowbot be the first word in a sentence without it spouting errors at me, who thought this shit was a good idea |
| 15:16 |
IhrFussel |
!up ihrfussels-server.tk |
| 15:16 |
ShadowBot |
IhrFussel: ihrfussels-server.tk port 30000 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused |
| 15:17 |
IhrFussel |
Oops forgot port |
| 15:17 |
Megaf |
problem is, minetestbot isnt here |
| 15:17 |
IhrFussel |
!up ihrfussels-server.tk 25000 |
| 15:17 |
ShadowBot |
IhrFussel: ihrfussels-server.tk port 25000 is up (29477us) |
| 15:17 |
Megaf |
Weird, I cant ssh my VPS but the websites running in its contatiners are still working |
| 15:18 |
Megaf |
apache container is up, git server container is up and sql container is up too |
| 15:18 |
Megaf |
and now ssh decided to work again, lol |
| 15:20 |
Krock |
!up ente.kak.si 34617 |
| 15:20 |
ShadowBot |
Krock: Resolving ente.kak.si failed: [Errno -5] No address associated with hostname |
| 15:21 |
Krock |
MTB can do that just fine.. |
| 15:23 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel, even with the mapblocks still in memory, that is confirmed by 150 MB of RAM used versus 40 MB, RAM still pikes soon after join and then comes back to normal |
| 15:24 |
Megaf |
spiked to around 333 MB this time |
| 15:24 |
Megaf |
!up mt.megaf.info |
| 15:24 |
ShadowBot |
Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30000 is up (9527us) |
| 15:24 |
IhrFussel |
Try a timeout of 5 or 10 and check if the spike is over after 5-10 secs |
| 15:25 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel, the default was 10 seconds |
| 15:26 |
Megaf |
then I put 1800 seconds, 30 min |
| 15:26 |
Megaf |
very same behavior |
| 15:26 |
Megaf |
I'm clearing objects now |
| 15:26 |
IhrFussel |
What's your block send distance? |
| 15:27 |
IhrFussel |
Set it to something low and try again |
| 15:34 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:41 |
lisac |
nerzhul, any idea how to set z level of a formspec element? |
| 15:41 |
lisac |
I want my text to be infront of an image |
| 16:02 |
Krock |
the draw order can not be altered AFAIK |
| 16:08 |
benrob0329 |
Who owns MTB? |
| 16:09 |
sfan5 |
I do |
| 16:10 |
benrob0329 |
sfan5: mind adding it here? Everyone seems to want it rather than ShadowBot |
| 16:10 |
benrob0329 |
Shara: what's your opinion? |
| 16:12 |
Shara |
sfan5: Is there any reason not to add it? |
| 16:12 |
sfan5 |
not really |
| 16:12 |
Shara |
benrob0329: then I'd say it's fine and maybe useful, but up to sfan5 either way :) |
| 16:12 |
sfan5 |
ShadowBot will just need to be reconfigured to ignore conflicting commands or use a different command prefix |
| 16:13 |
Shara |
They both seem to be in #minetest anyway, so I assumed there weren't conflicts |
| 16:13 |
benrob0329 |
ShadowNinja: ^^ |
| 16:14 |
sfan5 |
i don't think ShadowBot will respond to !up in #minetest, that must be manual configuration |
| 16:14 |
benrob0329 |
We could kick shadowbot for now |
| 16:14 |
Shara |
Well, it's not really responding to it that well here either |
| 16:14 |
Shara |
I'd rather not kick it, since I think it's also set up to kick on spam |
| 16:15 |
Shara |
At least I think that's why c55 said he gave it op |
| 16:15 |
sfan5 |
yeah it has that functionality indeed |
| 16:16 |
benrob0329 |
Can MTB be set up to kick on spam? |
| 16:22 |
sfan5 |
that's not the point |
| 16:26 |
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MinetestBot joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:27 |
sfan5 |
^ Shara voice it please |
| 16:27 |
sfan5 |
(setting perm voice on the hostmask should work) |
| 16:27 |
Shara |
Will fix +V in a moment |
| 16:30 |
sfan5 |
!up ente.kak.si 34617 |
| 16:30 |
ShadowBot |
sfan5: ente.kak.si port 34617 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused |
| 16:30 |
MinetestBot |
ente.kak.si:34617 seems to be down |
| 17:02 |
Roger9 |
apparently minecraft has a quantum computing mod |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
...why? |
| 17:02 |
* Roger9 |
shrugs |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
Also, how? |
| 17:03 |
* Roger9 |
shrugs again |
| 17:03 |
Roger9 |
it's probably just a simulation, not on actual quantum hardware |
| 17:03 |
benrob0329 |
I dont know which is more insane |
| 17:04 |
Roger9 |
I'm trying to find an online quantum logic simulator, but can't seem to find a good one |
| 17:10 |
Jordach |
gah |
| 17:10 |
Jordach |
paramat isn't here |
| 17:10 |
Roger9 |
parameter |
| 17:10 |
Roger9 |
paramater... argumant |
| 17:10 |
Roger9 |
paramat and arguman |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
paramat and arguman - together united! Coming soon. |
| 17:16 |
Roger9 |
Lol. |
| 17:17 |
Roger9 |
I want to create a mod, but I don't have any ideas. |
| 17:17 |
Roger9 |
No way I'm creating a quantum computing mod, despite how awesome it might be. |
| 17:19 |
Krock |
why not? you could create yet another technic alternative |
| 17:19 |
Roger9 |
yes, one that's infinitely more confusing than technic |
| 17:19 |
Krock |
that'd be nice, yeah. |
| 17:19 |
Roger9 |
lol |
| 17:20 |
Roger9 |
I have some idea of how quantum computing works, but I'm trying to find a good quantum logic simulator that I can't remember the name of. it was online and stuff. |
| 17:20 |
Roger9 |
nvm, found it |
| 17:20 |
Roger9 |
http://algassert.com/quirk |
| 17:21 |
Krock |
you could try to make a mod that allows gravity changing in a specific area or over a specific node |
| 17:21 |
Roger9 |
um. |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
or a tower defense modpack with automatic guns + upgrades |
| 17:24 |
Roger9 |
meh |
| 17:25 |
Krock |
or a mod that gives all players a few infinite items plus PvP disabled for a few minutes to give them time to build castles and team bases. once the time is up, they shall kill the enemies |
| 17:25 |
Krock |
see? there are already plenty of ideas |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
of course, a mod that would do some machine learning would be somewhat amazing ;) |
| 17:26 |
Roger9 |
ooh |
| 17:26 |
Roger9 |
a mod which allows you to create neural networks |
| 17:27 |
Krock |
or simply one that uses a neural network |
| 17:27 |
Krock |
otherwise you could end up with a neural-network-ception |
| 17:29 |
benrob0329 |
Roger9: a rocket ship mod? |
| 17:29 |
Roger9 |
maybe a mob AI mod which gives each mob a neural network...? |
| 17:30 |
benrob0329 |
FPS: 0.5 |
| 17:30 |
Roger9 |
lol |
| 17:33 |
Roger9 |
or what about a mod that actually lets you create programs... |
| 17:34 |
Roger9 |
I mean |
| 17:34 |
Roger9 |
how about a brainfuck interpreter? |
| 17:37 |
Calinou |
FiM++ or bust |
| 17:38 |
Roger9 |
I pick bust |
| 18:04 |
Roger9 |
a mod that makes uninsulated mesecons electrocute yo |
| 18:04 |
Roger9 |
u |
| 18:04 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:04 |
|
rubenwardy left #minetest-hub |
| 18:05 |
Roger9 |
'Ello. |
| 18:05 |
Roger9 |
...Bye. |
| 18:12 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
hi all |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
!help |
| 18:12 |
MinetestBot |
https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md |
| 18:12 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: help [<plugin>] [<command>] |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
yay |
| 18:12 |
|
ShadowBot was kicked by rubenwardy: ShadowBot |
| 18:12 |
Roger9 |
hm |
| 18:12 |
Roger9 |
I should make it interface with digilines |
| 18:13 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: you should just tell SN that he needs to config the bot to act in a non-conflicting way (like in #minetest) |
| 18:13 |
Roger9 |
digiline_send("channel", {code = "insert bf code here", input = "insert input stream here"}) |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
once that's done that bot can come back in |
| 18:14 |
rubenwardy |
if MTB could support github (#issue) then it could take over in #-dev too |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
poor ShadowBot, always getting replaced |
| 18:22 |
rubenwardy |
it just never works |
| 18:30 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:36 |
Megaf |
[15:26:54] <IhrFussel> What's your block send distance? |
| 18:36 |
Megaf |
1 |
| 18:37 |
Megaf |
my server is highly efficient and optimized IhrFussel. Again, back in version < 0.4.14 I could run it on a Raspberry Pi with 256 MB of ram |
| 18:37 |
Jordach |
!git sfan5 |
| 18:37 |
Jordach |
:^) |
| 18:37 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5, someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Git, please go to: http://git-scm.com/book/ |
| 18:38 |
Megaf |
Oh, hi MinetestBot |
| 18:40 |
|
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| 18:41 |
Roger9 |
:D |
| 18:41 |
Roger9 |
yay |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
hailstorms confirmed |
| 18:42 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/mxlihayzjnrfruhlsz.png |
| 18:43 |
Jordach |
thunder and snowing in the plains area is based on months of the year |
| 18:43 |
Jordach |
they are month dependant ;) |
| 18:44 |
Roger9 |
Concept: A ray gun node that shoots a ray when triggered by mesecons or digilines. If one block receives more than one ray at once, that block gets removed (and dropped as an item entity). |
| 18:47 |
|
compunerd joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:52 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, 30 secs after restart 230 MB RAM with 3 connected players |
| 18:54 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:56 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, did you check if the high memory usage stays high the higher you set the unload data timeout? |
| 19:10 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:15 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel, its just a spike that lasts around 5 seconds |
| 19:15 |
Megaf |
memory use is not high at all |
| 19:16 |
Megaf |
memory climbs 200~300MB for around 5 seconds and then it goes down to normal |
| 19:16 |
Krock |
benrob0329, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=TARDIS+curve |
| 19:20 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, I don't think I see that then... which flags did you use when compiling? |
| 19:21 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel, http://git.megaf.info/MegafServer |
| 19:22 |
Jordach |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6688 *yes* |
| 19:22 |
Jordach |
*yesssss* |
| 19:22 |
Jordach |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6686 |
| 19:26 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, that's a lot of flags...I didn't use any flags for make, just cmake ... you could check which thread of MT requires more memory for 5 secs |
| 19:27 |
IhrFussel |
Wait...threads share the RAM so that's nonsense |
| 19:28 |
IhrFussel |
You could maybe compile it once without any make flags to see if it still happens |
| 19:51 |
|
CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:05 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: wot |
| 20:09 |
Krock |
it's the tardis plot |
| 20:12 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:25 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:38 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:51 |
|
oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:52 |
Jordach |
so i hacked in bloom |
| 20:52 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/hreierpvkghmlupq.png |
| 20:52 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/tahiorxrdwtwncbvwq.png |
| 20:52 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/mdpcwvxthyxfzukrsn.png |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
minetest is an AAA game now |
| 20:53 |
benrob0329 |
*shields eyes* its too bright! |
| 20:53 |
Jordach |
*needs tweaking* |
| 20:55 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: hack in AO next for meshnodes :^) |
| 20:56 |
Calinou |
[SweetFX intensifies] |
| 20:56 |
Calinou |
also, nice animated favicon |
| 21:00 |
Jordach |
fun fact |
| 21:00 |
Jordach |
MT has no depth buffer |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
any game has one, it's just accessible, I guess |
| 21:03 |
Jordach |
nono |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
without a depth buffer, you couldn't sort things at all, it'd look all broken |
| 21:03 |
Jordach |
minetest does *not* have one |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
it does |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
but Irrlicht uses a traditional forward renderere |
| 21:03 |
Jordach |
any depth buffer editors like DoF does *not* work and kills opengl |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
so you can't access it directly like in a deferred renderer, I guess |
| 21:03 |
Jordach |
this also occurs under D3D |
| 21:03 |
sfan5 |
sorting is pretty broken so that sounds plausible |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
see what I said about renderers |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
sfan5: if there was no depth buffer, even opaque blocks would appear in front of each other! |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
transparent objects are a whole different issue, not related to the depth buffer. |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
the solution is order-independent transparency, which is computationally expensive |
| 21:13 |
Fixer |
Arch help needed: pacman search package |
| 21:14 |
Fixer |
found it |
| 21:16 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:28 |
Fixer |
everything is blue |
| 21:41 |
Fixer |
current mood: Mo-Do - 1 2 Polizei / updating list at https://github.com/minetest-tools/mcresconvert/issues/24 |
| 22:25 |
Fixer |
checking out old minetests - xxxx xxxx it lags/stutter as hell |
| 22:39 |
Fixer |
paramat: that RTT bug is from 0.4.9-0.4.10 era, i've listed few suspects (noob guesses) |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
!tell tenplus1 is it possible to render that info intelligently (no tags if not directly visible), example https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10539&start=900#p301594 |
| 22:42 |
MinetestBot |
Fixer: I'll pass that on when tenplus1 is around |
| 22:50 |
paramat |
ok |
| 22:53 |
paramat |
Fixer yes there is an occasional unexplained failing of leafdecay, hopefully rare |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
and everyone forgot about rebalancing those bronze tools .-. |
| 22:56 |
* benrob0329 |
continues work on the tardis remat |
| 23:03 |
* Shara |
thinks all tools need balancing |
| 23:04 |
Shara |
Mainly because you can simply skip... how many tiers of tools? |
| 23:04 |
Shara |
Most of them? |
| 23:05 |
Fixer |
our tools are booooring |
| 23:06 |
Jordach |
Fixer, tools in my subgame level up and get better the more you use them |
| 23:06 |
Jordach |
:^) |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
wooden/stone/iron/bronze/diamond/mese x pickaxe/shovel/axe/hoe - quite insane list |
| 23:06 |
Jordach |
the damage bar is inverted |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
i'm more inclined to make bronze as powerful as diamond, but only iron durability |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
and make mese tools with special abilities |
| 23:07 |
Fixer |
remember - mese is special |
| 23:07 |
Fixer |
so tools are special |
| 23:07 |
Fixer |
pickaxe/shovel will pickup original blocks and axe will chop entire trunk? |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
Fixer, my diamond tools have the odd chance to not consume durability |
| 23:08 |
Jordach |
they have the same amount of usage as mese, except that mese eventually reaches max level and never wears out |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
can either level the slow mese tools to max speed, or just use diamonds which eventually break |
| 23:09 |
paramat |
Shara you'd be the person for tool balancing, if you want to, maybe we can discuss in an issue |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
more and more I look into Tools list, it gets ridiculous |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
SIX tiers of tools |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
with confusion added about bronze and mese |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
what is better: mese or diamond? why mese is not special? |
| 23:12 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/qhO79IA.png |
| 23:16 |
Shara |
paramat: my worry is that we'd need to make sure you can't simply skip so many tools, or at least that there is motivation not to skip them even if possible |
| 23:17 |
Shara |
But can think about it a bit |
| 23:17 |
Shara |
Won't open an issue unless I come up with an ideas that seems to work for MTG |
| 23:18 |
Shara |
idea* |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
ok |
| 23:18 |
paramat |
bronze was a mistake we're only supporting to not break stuff |
| 23:18 |
Shara |
A mistake? |
| 23:21 |
Fixer |
Shara: there is already issue opened long ago for bronze, i've renamed it, move here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1681 |
| 23:22 |
Fixer |
find a mission for BRONZE/MESE tools or REMOVE |
| 23:25 |
paramat |
well, many feel it was a mistake, unnecessary |
| 23:26 |
paramat |
doesn't really fit into the progression |
| 23:27 |
paramat |
or rather, there wasn't a hole in the progression that needed filling |
| 23:28 |
Shara |
Fixer: issues seems more about bronze and tools in general |
| 23:28 |
Shara |
issue* |
| 23:28 |
Fixer |
Shara: main part https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1681#issuecomment-347047311 |
| 23:30 |
Shara |
Fixer: I doubt many people would agree with you on removing mese tools |
| 23:30 |
Fixer |
Shara: they are pretty much equal for diamond tool, then add special ability to mese |
| 23:30 |
Shara |
Special abilities like what? |
| 23:31 |
Fixer |
*cough* "pickaxe/shovel will pickup original blocks and axe will chop wood in bigger chunks" |
| 23:32 |
Fixer |
sorry I've realised we had shitshow with tools since very beginning only 6 years later :D |
| 23:32 |
Fixer |
but it is evident |
| 23:35 |
Fixer |
extracted 0.4.17, will sit on it |
| 23:36 |
Shara |
I don't really like those as special abilities myself |
| 23:36 |
Shara |
Feels like a great way to mess up some very nice mods |
| 23:36 |
Fixer |
thats admin problem |
| 23:36 |
Shara |
We'll just agree to disagree on that one |
| 23:36 |
Fixer |
then just remove mese tools |
| 23:37 |
Fixer |
and rebalance bronze |
| 23:37 |
Fixer |
another way is to remove both, have fun :D |
| 23:37 |
Shara |
paramat: I suspect if I try and do anything with tools you'll be slapping a controversial label on it within 24 hours :P |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
MTG should not be restricted by mods in any way, it should be free to evolve even if it conflicts with some mod initially |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
nothing controversial |
| 23:38 |
Shara |
Fixer: not really the point |
| 23:39 |
Fixer |
PROBLEM: Six tears of tools with doublicates and confusion, how we simplify that? ;) |
| 23:39 |
Shara |
Saw many games with many more tiers |
| 23:40 |
Shara |
Problem in MTG is progression doesn't flow |
| 23:40 |
Shara |
wood/stone are just used to get metal, then discarded |
| 23:40 |
Fixer |
ok, lets add tin tools too and some progression %) |
| 23:40 |
Shara |
then you can jump straight to diamond |
| 23:40 |
Fixer |
make it worse |
| 23:40 |
Fixer |
right |
| 23:40 |
Fixer |
so you get iron tools now |
| 23:40 |
Shara |
So two tiers are basically useless placeholders used only for a moment |
| 23:41 |
Fixer |
and you mine for diamond and if you find mese - it is good too and you craft whatever is abundant |
| 23:41 |
Fixer |
bronze is omitted and mese = diamond |
| 23:41 |
Shara |
I don't care about bronze at all. |
| 23:41 |
paramat |
Shara depends on the idea, and we can discuss, but indeed there may not be much room for alteration |
| 23:41 |
Shara |
But I think removing mese tools would be stupid |
| 23:42 |
Fixer |
in game mese = diamond pretty much (roughly) |
| 23:42 |
Fixer |
bronze is cumbersome to make, much longer crafting time and more resources -> nobody uses it |
| 23:43 |
Fixer |
you just craft iron and find (mese|diamond) = profit |
| 23:43 |
paramat |
not trivial to remove tools, breaks a lot of stuff |
| 23:43 |
Fixer |
make them hidden or alias |
| 23:43 |
Shara |
It's not like their inclusion damages anything |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
it does, it confuses players |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
iron vs bronze and diamond vs mese |
| 23:44 |
Shara |
Never seen any sign of that |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
like no signs of bronze tools ;) |
| 23:44 |
Shara |
Lack of doesn't mean they do damage. They are just pointless. |
| 23:45 |
Shara |
But if you want to remove them, make a PR. |
| 23:45 |
paramat |
no confusion, just a lot of choice, some of it unnecessary |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
so I'm simple player, what is better: mese or diamond tools? how do i know, they function in a same way pretty much |
| 23:46 |
Shara |
SImple players don't seem to much care |
| 23:46 |
Shara |
Or seem to enjoy puzzling it out |
| 23:46 |
paramat |
mods depend on tools, no point breaking stuff. we just won't add new tools |
| 23:47 |
* Shara |
sighs and opens default/tools.lua to stare at |
| 23:48 |
Fixer |
then make them special make good progression, whatever |
| 23:48 |
Fixer |
bronze should not suck |
| 23:48 |
Fixer |
and mese should not be equal to diamond tools |
| 23:48 |
Fixer |
don't throw out gameplay into trash bin |
| 23:49 |
Fixer |
just rising awereness |
| 23:49 |
* Shara |
sighs |
| 23:49 |
Shara |
I already agreed with you |
| 23:49 |
Shara |
Just not on how you'd fix it |
| 23:50 |
Shara |
If you think your way is the only way to fix it, make a PR? |
| 23:50 |
paramat |
Fixer do open an issue with intelligent ideas, vague complaints are not much helpflu |
| 23:50 |
paramat |
*helpful |
| 23:50 |
Fixer |
paramat: it was opened like year ago, I just added more remarks in it today |
| 23:50 |
Shara |
At least now MTG does concept approvals, you can spell out an idea in full to see if it would get support |
| 23:51 |
Fixer |
paramat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1681 |
| 23:51 |
Shara |
I am even watching concept approvals myself to see if there are any I can make PRs for |
| 23:51 |
paramat |
ah ok |
| 23:51 |
Shara |
(did one PR for a concept approval issue last nighit) |
| 23:57 |
benrob0329 |
Shara: you can get a wood pickaxe, mine steel, then get iron in a half hour |
| 23:57 |
benrob0329 |
*get diamond |
| 23:58 |
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Xio joined #minetest-hub |
