| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
tumeninodes |
hi JordachL |
| 00:00 |
octacian |
enough biomes? No way :P |
| 00:00 |
JordachL |
shhh |
| 00:00 |
elinor |
tumeninodes: I think noore is an improvement over Minetest Game as-is, even not considering that it prevents cheating with client-side mods, texture packs, and modified clients. |
| 00:01 |
tumeninodes |
but that is the thing, no one is ever going to be able to completely prevent cheating |
| 00:02 |
octacian |
elinor: How could it possibly be nicer to have totally bland caves? |
| 00:03 |
tumeninodes |
btw, hi elinor |
| 00:03 |
elinor |
octacian: Maybe not for the caves, but for mines I dig myself? |
| 00:03 |
elinor |
I'm sure you don't prefer underground tunnels with holes and coal everywhere. |
| 00:03 |
elinor |
Hi. :) |
| 00:03 |
octacian |
hmmm, That's true. |
| 00:04 |
octacian |
Gotta agree with that one there. However, you can just fill in the holes as you go. It's not hard |
| 00:04 |
octacian |
One ore related thing that I'd like to see though, is make ores drop stone as well |
| 00:04 |
elinor |
I can't build anything underground without being tempted to dig just this one more shiny diamond cluster... |
| 00:04 |
elinor |
I'd like to see that too. |
| 00:05 |
tumeninodes |
one key, which is something sofar (if I read him right) mentions is not punishing players for using something like ore-detect but, rather making it less of a thrill |
| 00:05 |
paramat |
oh erm .. |
| 00:05 |
tumeninodes |
hi paramat |
| 00:06 |
paramat |
all ores can be limited to certain biomes, and in mtg blob ores already are |
| 00:06 |
octacian |
paramat: According to documentation only vein ores can |
| 00:07 |
octacian |
hmmm, NVM |
| 00:07 |
octacian |
heh, Sorry, apparently they can. Misread the documentation xD |
| 00:08 |
paramat |
for example, dirt blobs are not suitable for biomes with no dirt, etc .. |
| 00:08 |
tumeninodes |
so the question is, is it worth it? and, will it take the thrill out of ore detect? most important will it take mining thrill away from players in general? |
| 00:09 |
tumeninodes |
and it is just a goofy idea anyway atm |
| 00:13 |
paramat |
no ores plus biome distribution, some might like it but for me the no ores idea is one of the worst ideas i have ever seen |
| 00:14 |
octacian |
+1 to that statement |
| 00:14 |
octacian |
paramat: hmmm, Is it possible to make an ore decrease in rarity the lower you get without having to register tons of ore definitions? |
| 00:16 |
tumeninodes |
well, no ores is a mod, biome distribution would be... not a mod :P |
| 00:17 |
paramat |
and the idea of accepting oredetect and radically changing gameplay around it, i feel the same way |
| 00:17 |
tumeninodes |
but if that would take away from game-play that too would be no good |
| 00:17 |
paramat |
but biome distribution for ores is a fine idea :] |
| 00:18 |
tumeninodes |
I don;t think the idea is to "accept" it, more figuring a way to make it less thrilling or sensible to use or need in the first place |
| 00:18 |
tumeninodes |
taking the fun out of it |
| 00:18 |
paramat |
we won't need to accept oredetect anyway, server restrictions are being coded for any potentially harmful CSM function |
| 00:19 |
octacian |
Wait, isn't biome distribution the same as limiting ores to specific biomes? Or do I misunderstand? |
| 00:19 |
tumeninodes |
overall thats a good way to go but, then someone will find a way to bypass that too ;) |
| 00:19 |
elinor |
There's no need to make an oredetect-like tool. I think noore is already good just like that, though the ores could be kept in caves. |
| 00:20 |
paramat |
octacian yeah the same |
| 00:20 |
octacian |
Okay, good. |
| 00:21 |
tumeninodes |
but as mentioned, not all would like no ores, which is understandable |
| 00:21 |
octacian |
elinor: I agree that there's no need for such a tool, but I really dislike the concept of no ores |
| 00:22 |
tumeninodes |
biomes it is then... court adjourned (bang) :D |
| 00:22 |
paramat |
" Is it possible to make an ore decrease in rarity the lower you get without having to register tons of ore definitions?" yes with code changes |
| 00:23 |
elinor |
It would be too controversial to do the same thing as noore in Minetest Game, but noore is a very elegant solution for server owners who want it. |
| 00:24 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 00:24 |
tumeninodes |
and certain ores could start to blend into the next biome as well. |
| 00:24 |
octacian |
paramat: Any chance of such code changes? |
| 00:24 |
octacian |
elinor: That is true |
| 00:25 |
paramat |
i'm actually relocating ores in a PR now and might add a 3rd stage for more ore at an even lower depth |
| 00:25 |
tumeninodes |
always busy : ) |
| 00:25 |
elinor |
The ore depth changes are good... There needs to be a reason to dig lower than Y=-1024. |
| 00:26 |
paramat |
personally i don't think s perfectly smooth increase with depth is worth coding, a few stages is just as good, no-one will notice the difference |
| 00:26 |
tumeninodes |
elinor, that's easy... tell people that insane 700+ kill tool is down there |
| 00:28 |
tumeninodes |
gotta go, see yall later. |
| 00:28 |
garywhite |
what's going on? |
| 00:28 |
tumeninodes |
paramat: left a pm on forum for you if you get a moment |
| 00:28 |
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| 00:32 |
elinor |
paramat: Most players already don't know that there's no reason to dig below Y=-1024. You're right that nobody will notice the difference, there's already nobody noticing it... |
| 00:32 |
elinor |
(Even veteran players.) |
| 01:15 |
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| 01:38 |
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| 02:04 |
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| 02:28 |
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| 02:52 |
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| 02:56 |
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| 04:30 |
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| 04:52 |
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| 05:52 |
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| 06:17 |
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| 07:14 |
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tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:14 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 07:18 |
CWz |
tall Build at spawn are a bad idea, players use them to commit Suduku |
| 07:18 |
tenplus1 |
lol, hi CWz |
| 07:25 |
tenplus1 |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18056&view=unread#unread very interesting |
| 07:52 |
benrob0329 |
tenplus1: https://images.discordapp.net/attachments/243055267942498305/335318942790975488/scp.png |
| 07:52 |
tenplus1 |
hi benrob... also, creepy prison stype corridor :) I like it |
| 07:53 |
benrob0329 |
Idk if your into SCP stuff, but that's my (done on a laptop late at night) take on it |
| 07:53 |
tenplus1 |
scp ?? |
| 07:54 |
benrob0329 |
Like, SCP Foundation |
| 07:54 |
tenplus1 |
had to look up wiki to see what it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCP_Foundation |
| 07:55 |
benrob0329 |
Its a collection of stories and creepypastas that create a fictional world which contains sometimes dangerous anomalies and a foundation to contain them. |
| 07:55 |
tenplus1 |
heh |
| 07:56 |
benrob0329 |
Basically a bunch of internet writers on a wiki with high standards |
| 07:56 |
tenplus1 |
ideas gotta come from somewhere :) maybe get hollywood in on the action and give them ideas for new movies :DD |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
Its supposedly in the works, but ive heard that for years |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
So basically that's my rushed take on a foundation site |
| 07:58 |
tenplus1 |
:P nice texture pack :P coudl almost make it into an adventure escape game |
| 07:59 |
benrob0329 |
Aaand to pull back the curtain: https://images.discordapp.net/attachments/212251522107441152/335321769814523904/Screenshot_from_2017-07-14_03-28-15.png |
| 07:59 |
tenplus1 |
ahahaha, for some reason I thought you textured minetest and made a corridor :P |
| 07:59 |
benrob0329 |
Its legit 2 boxes, 4 textures, and a few spheres for lights |
| 08:00 |
benrob0329 |
The spheres having the most polygons |
| 08:00 |
benrob0329 |
I could, theoretically build such a thing in Minetest |
| 08:00 |
tenplus1 |
:PPP |
| 08:01 |
benrob0329 |
But then I have to convert models, which is a pain |
| 08:01 |
benrob0329 |
And make bumpmaps that arent faked :P |
| 08:02 |
tenplus1 |
too much detail... 1x stone texture for floor, 1x brick texture for walls, 1x door texture at end and VanessaE's lights on top :P done! |
| 08:03 |
Shara |
Morning all |
| 08:03 |
benrob0329 |
And gimp to make it look fancy :PP |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
Hi Shara |
| 08:04 |
tenplus1 |
hi Shara |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
Goodnight all |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
:P |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
I just realised how late it is |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
Sooo... |
| 08:04 |
Shara |
Hehe, night benrob :) |
| 08:04 |
tenplus1 |
nite benrob :P o/ |
| 08:04 |
benrob0329 |
*poof* |
| 08:04 |
Shara |
and hello 11 |
| 08:05 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 08:06 |
Dumbeldor |
Hi |
| 08:07 |
tenplus1 |
hi Dumbeldor |
| 08:15 |
* CWz |
thinks VanessaE might be lurking |
| 08:15 |
* CWz |
scans his surroundings |
| 08:16 |
|
octacian_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:19 |
Shara |
lisac: tol rank mod is nice |
| 08:19 |
Shara |
tool* |
| 08:19 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, I like the idea of upgradable tools :D |
| 08:20 |
Shara |
I might have to play with that one a bit once I get home |
| 08:23 |
tenplus1 |
hrm, only issue is that when wear level goes right down the tool disappears when it breaks instead of being inactive |
| 08:24 |
Shara |
was just thinking about that |
| 08:24 |
Shara |
you will get paranoid... checking on tool health all the time |
| 08:24 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, and how do I repair it ? I can add two tools together but what if one is a level 6 and the other level 1... which level will i get back ? |
| 08:25 |
Shara |
The forum post covered that |
| 08:25 |
Shara |
Order you have them placed in decides it |
| 08:25 |
tenplus1 |
ohhhhhhh |
| 08:25 |
tenplus1 |
missed that bit :D |
| 08:26 |
* Shara |
is wondering what the "original_description " is used for |
| 08:26 |
tenplus1 |
we need a proper repair node that lets us place the tool and items to repair it with to increase wear level |
| 08:27 |
tenplus1 |
also if wear is too low then tool shouldnt work at all, meaning it wont disappear |
| 08:27 |
Shara |
on break, you could get a "broken tool" that preserves the level, instead of it vanishing, maybe |
| 08:28 |
tenplus1 |
a simple if wear < 0 then wear = 1 ; disable_tool = true ; end |
| 08:29 |
Shara |
and all those overrides need to be in a loop really :P |
| 08:31 |
tenplus1 |
some way of overriding the dig speed and level would be good also on upgrade |
| 08:32 |
* Shara |
wants a wooden pickaxe that out performs diamond .... |
| 08:32 |
Shara |
:P |
| 08:32 |
tenplus1 |
but actual digging uses tool definition isntead of meta stats for that |
| 08:33 |
Shara |
yea, was trying to see what actual effect it has |
| 08:33 |
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RichardTheTurd joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:33 |
tenplus1 |
hi richart |
| 08:33 |
tenplus1 |
*d |
| 08:33 |
tenplus1 |
Shara: I think that the more levelled up the tool, the more wear it has |
| 08:33 |
Shara |
Hmmm |
| 08:33 |
Shara |
would be better if it did more than that |
| 08:34 |
Shara |
Hi DI3HARD139 |
| 08:34 |
DI3HARD139 |
Hello |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
hi CWz |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
and all. |
| 08:34 |
tenplus1 |
hi Vanessa |
| 08:34 |
CWz |
Hey |
| 08:35 |
Shara |
Hello Vanessa :) |
| 08:35 |
VanessaE |
hi hi |
| 08:35 |
Shara |
and... okay, too many people showing up and I don't want to be a hi-bot :P |
| 08:36 |
VanessaE |
for _,i in ipairs(usernames) do print("Hello, "..i) end |
| 08:36 |
Shara |
:D |
| 08:36 |
tenplus1 |
ehehh |
| 08:39 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5a41a98ff6ac899038bfc359912ebb021479451b/builtin/game/item.lua#L495 |
| 08:40 |
tenplus1 |
if core.node_dig() could be amended to use tool metadata instead of tol definitions then we could do all sorts inc. digging faster, returning more items, silk touch etc etc etc |
| 08:40 |
tenplus1 |
and coudl have an proper upgradable tool system |
| 08:41 |
Shara |
Would be a nice thing |
| 08:41 |
Shara |
Personally I'd like to see a system where you can't basically switch from the first tier of tools right to the last in one jump |
| 08:42 |
tenplus1 |
it could allow you to use wood tools and only upgrade to stone tier, then you switch to stone tools up to steel tier etc etc |
| 08:42 |
Shara |
Yup |
| 08:43 |
Shara |
Something that makes you upgrade one tier to access another |
| 08:46 |
tenplus1 |
hrm, seems core.node_dig can only handle the node dig itself, not tool speed etc. |
| 08:46 |
tenplus1 |
damn |
| 09:04 |
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Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:04 |
tenplus1 |
hi raven |
| 09:04 |
Raven262 |
Hello tenplus1 |
| 09:06 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 09:21 |
lisac |
Hey Shara, good morning |
| 09:21 |
lisac |
Hi tenplus1 |
| 09:21 |
tenplus1 |
hi lisac |
| 09:22 |
Shara |
Hi lisac |
| 09:22 |
Raven262 |
Hello Shara |
| 09:23 |
Shara |
hi Raven262 :) |
| 09:23 |
Shara |
How's it going? |
| 09:23 |
Raven262 |
Nice i guess, you? :D |
| 09:23 |
Raven262 |
I'm trying to make a plantlife mod that uses the decoration api, currently just testing. |
| 09:24 |
Shara |
Ohhh... new plant types? |
| 09:24 |
Shara |
and good thanks |
| 09:24 |
Raven262 |
Eventually, yes |
| 09:24 |
Shara |
I am still trying to think of uses for all the plants already on my server |
| 09:24 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 09:25 |
tenplus1 |
Q. explosion sound distance... how does radius * 15 sound ? |
| 09:25 |
Raven262 |
15 nodes? |
| 09:25 |
tenplus1 |
yeh |
| 09:25 |
Shara |
Hmm, maybe it depends how big the explosion is :P |
| 09:26 |
tenplus1 |
radius = explosion size |
| 09:26 |
tenplus1 |
tnt kinds defaults to 64 |
| 09:26 |
Shara |
Hmm |
| 09:26 |
Raven262 |
64 radius of the explosion, but 15 of the sound? |
| 09:26 |
tenplus1 |
I wanna at least have mobs control the distance a little better |
| 09:26 |
Shara |
For someone who never plays with sound.... I guess it seems okay |
| 09:29 |
lisac |
Shara, You might want to start playing with sound. I noticed they started adding a lot of them in the last few months. And with the introduction of CSM, there will probably be even more sounds. |
| 09:29 |
Raven262 |
lol, try IhrFussel's server |
| 09:30 |
Shara |
I do play on there :P |
| 09:30 |
Shara |
I have quite a nice ice castle taking shape up on a glacier somewhere |
| 09:30 |
Raven262 |
I have a dungeon. |
| 09:30 |
tenplus1 |
Mobs Redo API updated to handle explosions and there sounds better |
| 09:31 |
Shara |
Hmm, now I am curious |
| 09:31 |
Shara |
But sounds annoy me because... footstep noise annoys me |
| 09:31 |
Raven262 |
Yeah me too |
| 09:31 |
tenplus1 |
we need a limit for footstep sounds |
| 09:31 |
Shara |
And even when I have fly, I foten like to walk around |
| 09:31 |
tenplus1 |
can hear a cow running around on the other side of a mountain |
| 09:31 |
Shara |
often* |
| 09:32 |
tenplus1 |
would help if the sounds were more realistic |
| 09:32 |
* Raven262 |
hears a cow running on the other side of the mountain. |
| 09:32 |
* Raven262 |
gets his bow. |
| 09:32 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 09:33 |
Raven262 |
"You can run, but you can not hide!", with these sounds that is. |
| 09:33 |
Raven262 |
Seriously , does anybody even know what do the noise_params mean? |
| 09:34 |
Raven262 |
In the decoration registration. |
| 09:34 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6131 |
| 09:37 |
tenplus1 |
raven, noise_params are used to set how many decorations in a certain area size using a specific seed to calculate |
| 09:38 |
Raven262 |
So basically, i don't need it? |
| 09:38 |
tenplus1 |
noise_params = {offset = 0,scale = 0.01,spread = {x = 100, y = 100, z = 100},seed = 7135,octaves = 3,persist = 0.6}, |
| 09:38 |
Raven262 |
yea that |
| 09:38 |
tenplus1 |
depends how specific you want your decoration |
| 09:39 |
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| 09:39 |
tenplus1 |
instead you could remove that and simply use: fill_ratio = <value> |
| 09:42 |
tenplus1 |
paramat uses noise_params for flowers and grass so they are spread out and appear in clumps in areas, whereas fill_ratio would have the decorations appear constantly over a set biome |
| 09:44 |
Raven262 |
Ah |
| 09:44 |
Raven262 |
Well, i'll be using fill ratio then |
| 09:44 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 10:09 |
Raven262 |
Well, the minetest decoration mod is gonna have to wait. |
| 10:10 |
Raven262 |
Does anybodfy know how to move the root dir on linux to a different drive? |
| 10:10 |
Raven262 |
*Anybody |
| 10:11 |
tenplus1 |
you just wanting to copy files across or do you want it to boot on new drive ? |
| 10:11 |
Raven262 |
To boot on the new drive too |
| 10:11 |
Raven262 |
I have to install windows and it requires a full drive, so i need to empty the smaller drive |
| 10:11 |
tenplus1 |
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/drive-and-partition-backups-with-dd/ |
| 10:14 |
Raven262 |
But i could use cp too |
| 10:14 |
Raven262 |
to copy |
| 10:15 |
tenplus1 |
cp lets you copy induvidual files with permissions, but... it wont make it bootable on the other side |
| 10:15 |
Raven262 |
Ah |
| 10:15 |
Raven262 |
Well, so i need dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/sdb2 |
| 10:15 |
Raven262 |
If i want to copy it to sdb2 |
| 10:16 |
Raven262 |
I wonder if that'll work |
| 10:16 |
Raven262 |
I'm sure that there is enough place,i just checked |
| 10:16 |
tenplus1 |
dd copies the disk image itself, so moving the boot partition to another drive allows it to become bootable |
| 10:17 |
tenplus1 |
and once finished you can resize partition or add more to suit |
| 10:17 |
Raven262 |
Great i just copied the linux-swap partition :/ |
| 10:19 |
Raven262 |
I have 111 gb total on /dev/sda2, on /dev/sdb2 i have 512gb, but some 150 is used |
| 10:20 |
tenplus1 |
it'll copy the whole partition even if half is empty |
| 10:22 |
Raven262 |
Yes, i know, i just read it |
| 10:22 |
Raven262 |
So, will i need to boot reapir after this? |
| 10:22 |
Raven262 |
*repair |
| 10:24 |
tenplus1 |
if it doesnt boot then you'd be easier installing a fresh distro |
| 10:27 |
Raven262 |
Something went wrong |
| 10:27 |
Raven262 |
damn |
| 10:27 |
Raven262 |
my system is behaving very odd |
| 10:27 |
Raven262 |
well then |
| 10:27 |
Raven262 |
I'm off to installing windows |
| 10:28 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 10:28 |
Raven262 |
I'll install a new linux afterwards |
| 10:31 |
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| 10:35 |
tenplus1 |
hi nrz |
| 11:01 |
CWz |
Pokemon; the only universe that a goat get's stuck in fence and is assigned godhood |
| 11:01 |
CWz |
Hmm |
| 11:01 |
tenplus1 |
??? |
| 11:02 |
CWz |
I mean... flying spaghetti monster mobs! |
| 11:03 |
CWz |
Yeah |
| 11:03 |
tenplus1 |
strange |
| 11:04 |
tenplus1 |
would be kewl though, could shoot lasers from it's eyes |
| 11:10 |
CWz |
or an energyball that shoots dungeonmasters |
| 11:10 |
tenplus1 |
how about meatballs :PPPP |
| 11:11 |
tenplus1 |
which reminds me, I gotta sort mob arrow rotation so it can fire from a specific spot on the mob itself... |
| 11:16 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:16 |
tenplus1 |
hi fixer |
| 11:17 |
Fixer |
hi |
| 11:36 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:36 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:36 |
tenplus1 |
hi thomas |
| 11:37 |
ThomasMonroe |
hi ten |
| 11:44 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:44 |
tenplus1 |
hi Jordach |
| 11:50 |
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DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:50 |
tenplus1 |
hi dS |
| 11:50 |
DS-minetest |
hi |
| 12:07 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey DS |
| 12:11 |
DS-minetest |
hey |
| 12:12 |
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| 12:13 |
tenplus1 |
hi nathan |
| 12:13 |
NathanS21 |
hi tenplus1 |
| 12:29 |
Fixer |
please stop this |
| 12:29 |
Fixer |
insanity |
| 12:29 |
tenplus1 |
??? |
| 12:29 |
Fixer |
one hi is enough |
| 12:29 |
NathanS21 |
there was only one hi |
| 12:29 |
Fixer |
i have literally 10 lines of "hi" |
| 12:30 |
NathanS21 |
odd, tenplus1 said hi to me, and I said hi back, that's all I see here. |
| 12:30 |
* tenplus1 |
wonders if fixer has a vi-hirus |
| 12:35 |
Fixer |
NathanS21: there were 8 hi's just before you |
| 12:40 |
* Shara |
comes back, checks log, and... resists the urge to say something |
| 12:41 |
tenplus1 |
wb |
| 12:41 |
Shara |
Thanks Ten :) |
| 12:48 |
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| 12:48 |
tenplus1 |
hey robbie :) hows you ? |
| 13:02 |
RobbieF |
tenplus |
| 13:02 |
RobbieF |
is good and you? |
| 13:02 |
RobbieF |
:D |
| 13:02 |
tenplus1 |
slow day :)) I've updated mobs redo api with a few fixes, just so ya know :PPP |
| 13:02 |
RobbieF |
wooo! |
| 13:02 |
RobbieF |
you're a maniac! |
| 13:03 |
RobbieF |
every week it seems you do something awesome. |
| 13:03 |
tenplus1 |
it uses tnt mod explosions to make life easier :) |
| 13:03 |
tenplus1 |
so creepers and dungeon masters go boom boom a lot more violently :D |
| 13:03 |
RobbieF |
woh |
| 13:03 |
ThomasMonroe |
O.O |
| 13:03 |
tenplus1 |
but still respects protected areas :D |
| 13:08 |
RobbieF |
OH! |
| 13:08 |
RobbieF |
I LOVE that! |
| 13:08 |
RobbieF |
when did dungeon masters start respecting protected areas?! |
| 13:08 |
RobbieF |
I had a DM destroy part of my parkour course! |
| 13:09 |
tenplus1 |
best thing is, if a fireball hits a chest it drops the items inside (unless it'sprotected) |
| 13:09 |
RobbieF |
wow |
| 13:10 |
tenplus1 |
the old routines worked but had a few issues I didnt like... lucky blocks mod uses tnt's boom as well now :D |
| 13:15 |
* tenplus1 |
is so tired today... *yawns* |
| 13:22 |
tenplus1 |
RobbieF: did you enable the old-style sneak code for parkour ???? |
| 13:37 |
CWz |
DM gets a gold medel from me for doing that |
| 13:39 |
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| 13:39 |
tenplus1 |
wb octacian :P also CWz, you want DM to destroy thigns :PPP |
| 13:39 |
octacian |
Thanks tenplus1 :D |
| 13:41 |
CWz |
Super Dungeon Masters |
| 13:41 |
tenplus1 |
xanadu has Dungeon Masters and Dungeon Lords :D |
| 13:41 |
tenplus1 |
depending how deep you are :)) |
| 13:41 |
CWz |
fire homing energy balls |
| 13:45 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 old style sneak code is enabled on all our servers, yes. |
| 13:45 |
tenplus1 |
sweet, tonight's update will add it to Xanadu... just wish the fall damage would get fixed |
| 13:55 |
CWz |
it won't |
| 13:56 |
CWz |
It's part of the old style |
| 13:56 |
CWz |
a feature if you will |
| 13:56 |
tenplus1 |
hrm... |
| 13:57 |
CWz |
we do need a sneaking animation, but when that doesn't look like the player is about to lay a fart or something |
| 13:57 |
tenplus1 |
that adds to the fun of it though :D |
| 13:57 |
Shara |
It's not like the fall damage avoidance is 100% anyway |
| 13:58 |
CWz |
the MC sneaking animation is abysmal |
| 13:58 |
octacian |
CWz: And something to cause the nametag to be hidden when sneakng |
| 13:58 |
tenplus1 |
if you fall onto a solid node it's fine, but fall onto slabs holding sneak then fall damage is nil |
| 13:59 |
CWz |
that should be easy octacian, in fact i might be able to make a mod that works 90% of the time |
| 13:59 |
octacian |
only 90%? |
| 13:59 |
CWz |
the 10% are outdated clients |
| 13:59 |
tenplus1 |
good point |
| 13:59 |
octacian |
I implemented such a feature for my subgame a while back, haven't gotten around to a sneaking animation though |
| 13:59 |
octacian |
True |
| 14:17 |
tenplus1 |
Lucky Block mod updated with a few fixes and tweaks |
| 14:44 |
tenplus1 |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4696276/The-100-000-flat-packed-house-unfolds-10-minutes.html |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:19 |
tenplus1 |
wb dudes |
| 16:03 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 did you get a chance to see the VR shows? Enjoy? |
| 16:03 |
tenplus1 |
yeah I watched it, was pretty kewl dude :))) |
| 16:04 |
RobbieF |
Wouldn't it be AMAZING to integrate an open source rendition of this kind of tech directly into Minetest? https://category5.tv/shows/clips_tech/episode/512-artificial-intelligence-orb-composer/ |
| 16:04 |
RobbieF |
at the end we talk about video game usage!!!!! UNREAL |
| 16:05 |
tenplus1 |
yeah I saw something like that last year... select levels for bass, instrumental etc. etc. and it composes it's own music |
| 16:05 |
tenplus1 |
old concept but nciely done for music in games :)))) |
| 16:06 |
tenplus1 |
e.g. deep in caverns search stone/ores and play deep dark theme... lava play thunderous theme... tree's is light hearted and airy high pitched etc |
| 16:06 |
tenplus1 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiziVsuzZnA |
| 16:07 |
tenplus1 |
that's from 2 years ago and it was pretty kewl :D |
| 16:07 |
tenplus1 |
imagine that in minetest :D |
| 16:09 |
RobbieF |
Nice, though that sample sounds very random |
| 16:09 |
RobbieF |
Eg., it doesn't have the AI component |
| 16:10 |
RobbieF |
so it sounds sloppy to me |
| 16:10 |
RobbieF |
The Orb stuff sounds like it was composed by a human |
| 16:10 |
tenplus1 |
:PP |
| 16:10 |
RobbieF |
makes me want to write something similar. |
| 16:10 |
RobbieF |
an API or something |
| 16:11 |
tenplus1 |
sounds good... give it lua compatibility so we can use it in game :DDD |
| 16:12 |
tenplus1 |
I still wish that irrlicht could handle .mod/.xm music... that'd be awesome |
| 16:13 |
RobbieF |
me too |
| 16:13 |
RobbieF |
have requested that forever |
| 16:14 |
RobbieF |
:( |
| 16:14 |
RobbieF |
could minetest play mid? |
| 16:14 |
RobbieF |
eg If I build an api that outputs mid files based on provided specs? |
| 16:14 |
tenplus1 |
no midi either... would save a lot of media space having those formats though |
| 16:14 |
RobbieF |
ooh ,idea! We make a mod that plays mid based on blocks |
| 16:14 |
RobbieF |
it pulls the mid files from the api |
| 16:15 |
RobbieF |
and the block specifies 1) radius of where the music will play, 2) the style of music (eg., haunting, happy, ambient) and 3) the volume |
| 16:15 |
tenplus1 |
yaaay! |
| 16:15 |
RobbieF |
it'll then query the server for a mid file conforming to those specs |
| 16:15 |
RobbieF |
because mid is just a couple bytes, it'll be instant load |
| 16:16 |
RobbieF |
because it'd be api driven, I /community can also build other interfaces for it |
| 16:16 |
RobbieF |
I'm certain this can be done! |
| 16:16 |
tenplus1 |
we doneed something to handle smaller music files in-game... this sounds about right :D |
| 16:17 |
tenplus1 |
all I have so far is local (client) loading of .ogg files for ambience music |
| 16:18 |
RobbieF |
it'll be perfect! wanna look at mid playback in lua and I'll start on the api? |
| 16:18 |
RobbieF |
to generate the mid files |
| 16:18 |
RobbieF |
I have named it "MIDI Magician" |
| 16:18 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/OpenPrograms/Sangar-Programs/blob/master/midi.lua |
| 16:19 |
RobbieF |
there you go! |
| 16:19 |
RobbieF |
I'll setup the midi output for you within 30 mintues. |
| 16:19 |
RobbieF |
gonna add a subdomain for the api |
| 16:21 |
RobbieF |
domain registered, ssl cert requested |
| 16:21 |
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| 16:21 |
tenplus1 |
wb raven |
| 16:21 |
Raven262 |
thanks tenplus1 |
| 16:21 |
Raven262 |
Guess i now have a broken hdd |
| 16:22 |
tenplus1 |
coudlnt recover anything ? |
| 16:22 |
Raven262 |
well, my files went missing from that dd command |
| 16:23 |
tenplus1 |
on the original drive ???? |
| 16:23 |
Raven262 |
on the drive that i have pasted to |
| 16:23 |
tenplus1 |
it was reading that part and writing to a different drive, wasnt it ??? |
| 16:24 |
Raven262 |
it crashed in the middle of pasting, leaving the part of the data on the one drive and part on the other |
| 16:24 |
tenplus1 |
oucccchhhh!!! |
| 16:24 |
benrob0329 |
Raven262: ouch, I think we all do that at least once |
| 16:24 |
Raven262 |
lol |
| 16:24 |
tenplus1 |
hi benrob..... |
| 16:24 |
tenplus1 |
did you have a backup on flash drive of your files ? |
| 16:24 |
benrob0329 |
Then you learn to grippier check commands like that |
| 16:24 |
Raven262 |
nope |
| 16:24 |
benrob0329 |
*triple |
| 16:25 |
Raven262 |
I will try to recover my Documents folder, or just a part of it that i need |
| 16:25 |
tenplus1 |
agree'd benrob |
| 16:25 |
Raven262 |
everything else is basically downloaded from the web |
| 16:26 |
RobbieF |
I work at a data recovery lab |
| 16:28 |
tenplus1 |
that's why I have my linux system on '/' and files/settings on '/home' just incase |
| 16:28 |
Raven262 |
Well, i am using the testdisk right now |
| 16:28 |
Raven262 |
i hope it will work |
| 16:29 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 with the mod, can it be made so minetest does not cache the midi file? |
| 16:29 |
tenplus1 |
am not sure... |
| 16:31 |
RobbieF |
k will generate a random filename each time for now |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:33 |
tenplus1 |
am testing to make sure it actually plays midi files using that code :P |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:36 |
tenplus1 |
hi krock |
| 16:36 |
tenplus1 |
robbie, it doesnt work, needs full lua instaleld on system to play midi |
| 16:37 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 https://midi.baldnerd.com/ |
| 16:38 |
RobbieF |
oh it won't work? |
| 16:38 |
tenplus1 |
minetest uses lua library, I think midi.lua needs full lua install and components |
| 16:39 |
tenplus1 |
.mid file doesnt have sound... |
| 16:39 |
tenplus1 |
is playing ok but no sound |
| 16:41 |
tenplus1 |
oh wait, need soundfont file containint instrument set |
| 16:43 |
tenplus1 |
they have MOD playback in garys mod using lua... wonder how easy that is to setup |
| 16:43 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 16:43 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:45 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/wyozi/gmod-medialib |
| 16:50 |
tenplus1 |
lol, grilo-plugins-0.3-base has lua api's for music services like (acoustis, itunes, last.fm, spotify) |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:56 |
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| 16:57 |
tenplus1 |
RobbieF: http://www.ambiera.com/irrklang/ seems to allow irrlicht engine to handle all formats (midi and mod included) |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:08 |
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| 17:09 |
DS-minetest |
my csm waypoints mod is now on forum https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18092&p=283468#p283468 |
| 17:09 |
tenplus1 |
kewl |
| 17:11 |
sofar |
what? there's a csm API for player.setpos() ? |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:11 |
tenplus1 |
no way ??? |
| 17:12 |
DS-minetest |
sofar: ehm, i don't think so |
| 17:12 |
sofar |
oh, it calls a chatcommand |
| 17:12 |
DS-minetest |
yeah |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:13 |
sofar |
ok, that's perfectly fine of course :0 |
| 17:13 |
tenplus1 |
*phew* false alarm :PPP also hi sofar, hi cx384 |
| 17:13 |
cx384 |
hello all |
| 17:18 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 wanna try going that route? |
| 17:18 |
RobbieF |
I could make the system output mod instead! |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
though mod is only 4 track |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
does it support s3m or xm? |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
midi I can do 16 |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
s3m IIRC is unlimited. |
| 17:19 |
tenplus1 |
that's fine... 4 tracks is more than enough for simple music for server... and we have a HUUUUUUUUUGE library to choose from |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 I'd still wanna design AI for music generation |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
MOD is VERY different though |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
much larger files |
| 17:19 |
RobbieF |
as the samples are built into the file |
| 17:20 |
RobbieF |
not synthesis |
| 17:20 |
tenplus1 |
dependson the samples you supply with mod :D |
| 17:20 |
benrob0329 |
RobbieF: generally still very small |
| 17:20 |
tenplus1 |
and they CAN be synthesis as well remember, doesnt rely on samples |
| 17:20 |
RobbieF |
I could see building sample packs around entire themes. |
| 17:20 |
RobbieF |
Eg., the "ambient" sample pack in the AI would allow it to choose from a selection of pads |
| 17:21 |
RobbieF |
mod does not typically contain midi synthesis, no. Some trackers may have had the feature, but it's not part of the format. |
| 17:21 |
RobbieF |
mod would be even easier than midi |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
never going to get released, but: https://pasteboard.co/GAVud65.jpg |
| 17:21 |
RobbieF |
so mod magician it is! LOL |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest Mods for iOS |
| 17:22 |
RobbieF |
so tenplus1 should I scrap midi? |
| 17:23 |
RobbieF |
focus on mod instead? |
| 17:23 |
tenplus1 |
personally I prefer mod/xm :) but dont give up on midi if you wanna use it |
| 17:23 |
RobbieF |
yeah me too - mod would be great |
| 17:23 |
RobbieF |
what formats are supported though? Can we focus on one specific format? |
| 17:24 |
benrob0329 |
Probabily not with mod files |
| 17:25 |
RobbieF |
huh? |
| 17:25 |
benrob0329 |
Mod/F |
| 17:25 |
RobbieF |
? |
| 17:26 |
benrob0329 |
Mod/xm/s3m/it |
| 17:26 |
RobbieF |
tenplus1 posted above support for it |
| 17:26 |
tenplus1 |
quite a few libraries will handle most mod formats |
| 17:26 |
tenplus1 |
http://www.un4seen.com/mo3.html |
| 17:26 |
benrob0329 |
Id rather not use irrklang, its nonfree |
| 17:27 |
benrob0329 |
http://xmp.sourceforge.net/ |
| 17:28 |
tenplus1 |
wow, that one handles many formats :) I like it... and mods arent limited to samples only, most can do synth sounds |
| 17:29 |
RobbieF |
so do I just pick any format? |
| 17:30 |
tenplus1 |
if you are using the library it can play many, but if you are writing the music itself then yeah, simple format to start with |
| 17:30 |
benrob0329 |
https://modarchive.org/ |
| 17:31 |
tenplus1 |
I love how ppl are still making MOD music... :)) I grew up with that format and made a few myself |
| 17:32 |
RobbieF |
heh |
| 17:32 |
RobbieF |
yeah me too |
| 17:32 |
RobbieF |
Mick Rippon is a good friend of mine |
| 17:32 |
RobbieF |
(mickrip) |
| 17:32 |
tenplus1 |
and it only needs a few measly Mhz to play them... way less than ogg vorbis music :P |
| 17:33 |
benrob0329 |
And only a few kilobytes of space! |
| 17:33 |
tenplus1 |
yeah... perfect for server music :)))) |
| 17:34 |
benrob0329 |
So you can have hours and hours of music take up very little space |
| 17:34 |
tenplus1 |
exactly :) |
| 17:36 |
RobbieF |
yeah we've had this talk many times. Now, let's make it happen. |
| 17:37 |
RobbieF |
NO space tenplus1 - let's api it |
| 17:37 |
tenplus1 |
? |
| 17:38 |
RobbieF |
The Minetest mod gets the music mod served from the backend api (hosted online) |
| 17:38 |
RobbieF |
that way NOBODY needs to create or get license for music. |
| 17:39 |
RobbieF |
All music generated by the API is licensed freely |
| 17:39 |
tenplus1 |
ah kewl :) |
| 17:39 |
RobbieF |
and generated automatically based on environmental elements (eg., if in a cave, the music will be ambient/eerie) |
| 17:39 |
sofar |
RobbieF: not sure that that technically doesn't constitute "not distributing" |
| 17:40 |
RobbieF |
what do you mean sofar? |
| 17:40 |
sofar |
RobbieF: since the music is played to a third party, not the server owner |
| 17:40 |
tenplus1 |
streaming from online shoudl be fine, no ? |
| 17:40 |
RobbieF |
sofar, the mod says to the api "desert sand" and the api says "here's a mod" |
| 17:40 |
RobbieF |
(gonna get confusing to have a mod mod) :D |
| 17:40 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
so the client gets the music from a free online service directly? |
| 17:41 |
RobbieF |
sofar; Artificial Intelligence creates the music automatically based on the environmental variables the mod tells it |
| 17:41 |
RobbieF |
correct |
| 17:41 |
RobbieF |
that's my vision, anyways. |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
does the service allow access to the music irregardless of client software used? |
| 17:41 |
RobbieF |
Good way for me to give back since I'm an api dev not a lua dev :D |
| 17:42 |
RobbieF |
Yes, sofar. I would keep it open. |
| 17:42 |
RobbieF |
It'd be built for any to utilize. |
| 17:42 |
sofar |
that seems entirely reasonable |
| 17:42 |
RobbieF |
and licensed in such a way that the music is 100% free for use, distribution, etc. |
| 17:42 |
sofar |
but you'd pose a security risk to players |
| 17:42 |
tenplus1 |
that way we can have many titles available for whichever biome the player is in :PPP |
| 17:42 |
RobbieF |
sofar, it would be done through an api call only, via ssl |
| 17:43 |
sofar |
yes but could I contribute music to your music archive? |
| 17:43 |
RobbieF |
eg., the player's mod sends a string, the api responds with a mod audio file |
| 17:43 |
RobbieF |
sofar, that's a neat idea; yes, that could be implemented as a setting in the mod "use ai, use provided music, use both" |
| 17:43 |
sofar |
that's not my point |
| 17:44 |
RobbieF |
you mean could a player place their own files? |
| 17:44 |
RobbieF |
for their own gameplay? |
| 17:44 |
sofar |
you are talking about making minetest clients capable of playing mod files |
| 17:44 |
RobbieF |
that'd be tenplus1's end of it, my end would be the api to send over the mod files |
| 17:44 |
RobbieF |
But I don't see why the mod couldn't support both, either, or. |
| 17:44 |
sofar |
and second, those mod files are downloaded from a third-party site |
| 17:44 |
RobbieF |
the ones from the api? |
| 17:45 |
sofar |
you didn't state that there was a different location from where mod files are downloaded |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
aren't midi/mod files tiny? |
| 17:46 |
benrob0329 |
Yes, kilobytes |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
(comparably) |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
then why even bother fetching them from a third-party ? |
| 17:47 |
benrob0329 |
Because then you can get a massive collection that is constantly updating? |
| 17:47 |
RobbieF |
sofar, because an artificial intelligence will be used to generate the mod file based on a series of data request sent to the API |
| 17:47 |
RobbieF |
it's not pre-composed music |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:47 |
RobbieF |
it's generated realtime based on game environment |
| 17:47 |
RobbieF |
there is no mod collection needed |
| 17:48 |
benrob0329 |
The output table of minetest.get_used_nodes :PP |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
this raises even more questions |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
the client and the server already have this information |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
why would you create a third "server" that needs this information? |
| 17:48 |
RobbieF |
? |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
this would be more efficient inside the client directly, or even on the server directly |
| 17:48 |
RobbieF |
because it has an ai driven api |
| 17:49 |
tenplus1 |
wb fussel |
| 17:49 |
benrob0329 |
Why would you want to stress MT servers more? |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
just put the AI inside the client |
| 17:49 |
RobbieF |
Again, I do not know how to do such a thing in lua. The only way I can contribute something this huge would be through a well built api |
| 17:49 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, hello there^^ ... I decided to buy a used PC for now...it's an older one for $80 |
| 17:49 |
tenplus1 |
what spec ya got dude ??? |
| 17:49 |
RobbieF |
and I wouldn't want to make it MT only. |
| 17:49 |
RobbieF |
this is something that anyone can use |
| 17:49 |
RobbieF |
the AI will be HUGE |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
I can't see adding it to MT |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
let alone the power it would take |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
NOT something for the client if you ask me |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
:D |
| 17:50 |
sofar |
can it handle thousands of MT clients connected to it? |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
Yes. |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
with room to grow |
| 17:50 |
RobbieF |
We stream more than that in HD video. |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
perhaps I can't assess the scope of the data that it will process |
| 17:51 |
benrob0329 |
I can see uses for video editing :D |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
but node data can be an insane amount of data |
| 17:51 |
benrob0329 |
doesn't need full node data I wouldn't think |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
you are essentially making all the block data take another trip |
| 17:52 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, Intel Dou E5200, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD |
| 17:52 |
benrob0329 |
Just what exists and how much of it |
| 17:52 |
tenplus1 |
nice spec fussel, what gfx / |
| 17:52 |
benrob0329 |
Along with biom info |
| 17:52 |
RobbieF |
benrob0329 yeah that's part of it too, but I'm thinking specific for gaming |
| 17:52 |
RobbieF |
no absolutely not sofar |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
RobbieF: gaming videos are a huge market, don't underestimate that :P |
| 17:53 |
RobbieF |
an example request would consist of the biome type, light level, and a bit of other data we want to know. It doesn't send the blocks |
| 17:54 |
RobbieF |
when I talk about a "block" i mean, there can be a PLACEABLE node (invisible?) that allows the developer/builder to customize what style the music can be |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
perhaps I'd like to review your architectural design plan |
| 17:54 |
RobbieF |
sure |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
:) |
| 17:54 |
RobbieF |
Midi was gonna be easy... now i have to figure out how to create an API around MOD :D |
| 17:54 |
RobbieF |
shouldn't take too long |
| 17:55 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, can't tell yet cause it will be here tomorrow...still using my USB stick on my old PC right now xP ... but 4 GB RAM is definitely not the stock spec right? |
| 17:55 |
tenplus1 |
that's perfect :) I would recommend installing Xubuntu 16.04 on it |
| 17:56 |
IhrFussel |
Yes it's a lot but I mean PCs in 2009 (I think that's the release year) didn't have 4 GB RAM right? |
| 17:56 |
tenplus1 |
2009 usually came with 1/2gb |
| 17:57 |
tenplus1 |
I still have 2gb in my net-top pc and it's running perfectly |
| 17:57 |
* VanessaE |
wanders back in |
| 17:57 |
tenplus1 |
wb Vanessa |
| 17:57 |
RobbieF |
hey VE |
| 17:57 |
IhrFussel |
I'm buying the used PC from an electronic service shop so I hope they refurbished it completely |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE |
afternoon all. |
| 17:58 |
tenplus1 |
hopefully so, and you should get a 6 months warranty with a refurb |
| 17:58 |
IhrFussel |
I always feel safer when I buy from a shop compared to someone private xP |
| 17:58 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, you have a fallback of sorts with a store |
| 17:59 |
IhrFussel |
They told me they will let it run overnight (I guess that's what you do to test a PC?) |
| 18:00 |
tenplus1 |
not really run overnight, just install a good Os and test all features if possible |
| 18:00 |
tenplus1 |
since it's a 64-bit dual core chrome browser will do most of thast for you :) |
| 18:01 |
IhrFussel |
It comes with Win 7 I think which can be upgraded to 10 for free but I'll install Xubuntu on it...if Xubuntu is already pretty responsive on this machine with <1 GB then I think it will be extremely fast with 4 |
| 18:01 |
IhrFussel |
Is it 100% 64-bit? |
| 18:02 |
benrob0329 |
*sigh* I really need to just sit down, and learn C++ |
| 18:02 |
benrob0329 |
But there are so many other things I need to get to as well |
| 18:03 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, that processor is 64-bit... |
| 18:03 |
garywhite |
IhrFussel: I think the free Windows 10 upgrade ended already |
| 18:03 |
tenplus1 |
also win10 is crap |
| 18:04 |
benrob0329 |
I hear its better than 8 |
| 18:04 |
benrob0329 |
Which isn't saying much |
| 18:04 |
IhrFussel |
garywhite, oh doesn't matter anyway cause my stick with Xubuntu is ready to get plugged into it |
| 18:04 |
* tenplus1 |
wouldn't trust Windows as far as I can throw it |
| 18:05 |
garywhite |
I hear it's worse than 8 |
| 18:05 |
tenplus1 |
fussel, is that the stick with xubuntu 14.04 ??? or have you got a 16.04 one ? |
| 18:05 |
benrob0329 |
That'd be pretty far for a CD :PP |
| 18:05 |
IhrFussel |
It's 14.04 but it shouldn't be a problem to upgrade from that |
| 18:06 |
tenplus1 |
true, run the update manager and it'll give you the option to upgrade to 16.04.3 LTS |
| 18:08 |
tenplus1 |
once you have that done lemmie know and I'll give you a few system tweaks to improve performance |
| 18:08 |
IhrFussel |
Will do :D I imagine the machine must be at least 2x as fast as my Celeron cause of 64-bit vs 32-bit + 2 cores |
| 18:11 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 18:12 |
IhrFussel |
My first option was a VERY OLD notebook for $55 ... Asus EEepc |
| 18:12 |
tenplus1 |
aww, those were cute :)) a tad on the low-res side with 1024x600 screen res |
| 18:12 |
IhrFussel |
And I'd expect a bit more than 1 GB in 2017 |
| 18:13 |
tenplus1 |
depends what you use it for in the end :) |
| 18:13 |
tenplus1 |
1gb is more than enough for web surfing, movies and music |
| 18:14 |
IhrFussel |
True but to have as much RAM in your notebook/PC as you have in your smartphone...is kinda silly |
| 18:15 |
tenplus1 |
lol yeah, my mobile is a higher spec than my net-top pc :DDDDD |
| 18:16 |
IhrFussel |
My smartphone has also better specs than this old machine except for the CPU...but not sure if quad core 1.3 Ghz is really better than Single core 2.6 Ghz |
| 18:17 |
IhrFussel |
Do you think the cores make up for the 50% clock loss? |
| 18:18 |
tenplus1 |
depends what you are running... phones mostly do small processes and many of them so the quad core is better |
| 18:18 |
tenplus1 |
unless you are into gaming :PP |
| 18:18 |
tenplus1 |
but even then the gpu will take over most of tht |
| 18:22 |
IhrFussel |
Minetest definitely needs more clock power than cores...when I connect to my server via phone it stays ~ 25 secs at "media..." WITHOUT download |
| 18:23 |
tenplus1 |
never tried it on my mobile, prefer the power of my desky :P |
| 18:24 |
tenplus1 |
and with 17.04 it runs smoother than before with new drivers :D |
| 18:24 |
IhrFussel |
All the client does at "media..." is comparing the cached files to the server versions correct? That takes so much CPU? |
| 18:24 |
tenplus1 |
its loading/comparing many files using slow memory storage |
| 18:25 |
tenplus1 |
so yeah, can be quiet sloooow |
| 18:25 |
tenplus1 |
*quite |
| 18:26 |
IhrFussel |
My mind was blown when I first connected via my machine and could barely see the "media..." stage after first connect ... so even an a$$ old HDD from 2005 beats flash in phones? |
| 18:26 |
tenplus1 |
heh |
| 18:28 |
IhrFussel |
I think the (now dead) HDD had a max speed of 12 MB/s ... that is slow! |
| 18:28 |
tenplus1 |
I suppose the faster transfer speeds = more battery drain |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:29 |
IhrFussel |
Oh so you mean the manufacturers lowered the bandwith on purpose? |
| 18:30 |
IhrFussel |
In phones* |
| 18:30 |
tenplus1 |
not bandwidth but memory speed prolly |
| 18:31 |
tenplus1 |
you can get class 10 and 12 sd cards that load.save quicker |
| 18:32 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel, that's because it's basically singlethreaded |
| 18:32 |
rubenwardy |
the majority of the work is on the main/server thread, depending on which side you're on |
| 18:32 |
rubenwardy |
would be nice to have a more distributed server |
| 18:33 |
rubenwardy |
I know that nerzhul was planning to work on packet consumer threads on the server |
| 18:33 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, Yeah so to Minetest the phones only has 1 core @ 1.3 Ghz? |
| 18:33 |
IhrFussel |
phone* |
| 18:33 |
tenplus1 |
eek |
| 18:36 |
sofar |
slow loading on phones ... I doubt that has anything to do with the phone CPU power |
| 18:37 |
sofar |
more like bandwidth issues |
| 18:37 |
tenplus1 |
many things that can be improved on :D |
| 18:38 |
IhrFussel |
BTW do Android phones these days still have 32-bit CPUs? |
| 18:39 |
sofar |
think of it this way: if you can play a local game on a phone with the same mods and media and it loads quickly |
| 18:39 |
sofar |
why would remote media be a CPU issue? |
| 18:39 |
tenplus1 |
64-bit arm phones are available |
| 18:40 |
IhrFussel |
sofar, makes sense =P ... tenplus1 but does Samsung dfor example use those yet? |
| 18:41 |
tenplus1 |
oh yes, those are 64-bit |
| 18:41 |
tenplus1 |
cortex a72 is 64-bit 8 core :D |
| 18:41 |
tenplus1 |
they are definitely powerful |
| 18:42 |
IhrFussel |
Ok well I remember a discussion somewhere where Apple users feel cocky cause iPhones have 64-bit CPUs now and Android phones don't..but that was over 1 year ago |
| 18:42 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe |
| 18:43 |
rubenwardy |
it's quite rare to find a phone without a 64bit processors |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
technically speaking samsung has better spec hardware than iphone... |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
hi ruben |
| 18:43 |
rubenwardy |
that's reasonably new, that is |
| 18:43 |
rubenwardy |
hi |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
software is compiled to run specifically for ios, whereas android uses java-based |
| 18:43 |
tenplus1 |
that's where the difference in speed lies |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not sure about that |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
for one, Minetest is NDK |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
so it's running as C++ natively, and not in a VM |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
and Java is pretty fast |
| 18:44 |
tenplus1 |
it can be, yes... |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
not quite C fast, but as fast as C++ for the most part |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
well, it depends what you're doing |
| 18:44 |
tenplus1 |
always room for improvement though :DDD |
| 18:45 |
IhrFussel |
Wait so Android apps do NOT require to be run in some form of Java code? I thought the MT c++ code is just "embedded" in Java |
| 18:45 |
tenplus1 |
I woudl so love to remove android and run a native linux on my mobile with phone apps to handle calls.texts |
| 18:45 |
rubenwardy |
mobile phones need to have a good battery, which is why they tend to be lower spec-d than computers |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel, the Java app runs the C++ code, the C++ is not simulated in JAva |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
so it's embedded as in the Java starts it |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
and interacts with it using the ABI |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
and vise-versa |
| 18:47 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, but it still requires Java to access system functions etc |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
depends what you define as system functions |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
this is what android looks like: https://i.stack.imgur.com/jXSwN.png |
| 18:48 |
IhrFussel |
The calls the Java API does...AFAIK only the Java code has true access to the Android core...or not? |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
the blue bits are Java |
| 18:48 |
tenplus1 |
another reason I'd love to run native linux |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
well yes, the Android API is Java, but system functions such as files etc don't need to go through Java as they're implemented in the Linux kernel |
| 18:50 |
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| 18:50 |
rubenwardy |
even if Java was very slow, it wouldn't slow the NDK down as it interacts with OpenGL and the filesystem without touching Java. This is assuming that the Java in other apps / services isn't taking up all the CPU |
| 18:50 |
rubenwardy |
also, this is AFAIK, I haven't contributed to Android (yet) |
| 18:50 |
tenplus1 |
heh |
| 18:51 |
IhrFussel |
You plan to develop for Android? |
| 18:51 |
IhrFussel |
I mean in general not necessarily the MT app :P |
| 18:52 |
rubenwardy |
I'm already a professional Android dev |
| 18:52 |
rubenwardy |
but I'd like to do some form of kernel/OS dev |
| 18:52 |
rubenwardy |
potentially Android |
| 18:53 |
IhrFussel |
Trying to create your own OS huh? xP RubenOS |
| 18:53 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/a6c70449397a2e4624a84a0c7907d07f |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
already done :D |
| 18:54 |
tenplus1 |
sweet, what's the diff between yours and stock ? |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
-100,000,000 lines +7000 lines |
| 18:55 |
tenplus1 |
with same features ?? |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
obviously not |
| 18:55 |
rubenwardy |
it's a kernel from scratch and it only works on arm7 chips |
| 18:55 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, so you removed the chaff for older arm versions |
| 18:55 |
IhrFussel |
Kernels have 100 MILLION+ lines code? |
| 18:55 |
rubenwardy |
supports a basic file system with no directories |
| 18:55 |
rubenwardy |
see document :P |
| 18:56 |
sofar |
IhrFussel: linux kernel is ~20 million LOC or so |
| 18:56 |
IhrFussel |
And I thought writing a script with 5,000 lines ia already a lot |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
slight over estimate on my behalf |
| 18:58 |
IhrFussel |
Are Linux kernels C? Or do they also use some machine code directly? |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
C with ASM |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
not a lot of ASM by comparison compared to C, obviously |
| 18:58 |
rubenwardy |
most of it is in C |
| 18:58 |
rubenwardy |
snap |
| 18:59 |
rubenwardy |
the ASM is usually to load the C |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
maybe 1% asm or so total |
| 18:59 |
IhrFussel |
Isn't ASM CPU-specific? |
| 18:59 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
obviously |
| 18:59 |
rubenwardy |
which is why mine only works on arm7 |
| 19:00 |
IhrFussel |
So ASM for each CPU type? So no guarantee that Linux works with every CPU |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
one of my aims is to get it running on an RPi |
| 19:01 |
tenplus1 |
so many Pi alternatives out there now :) arm is taking over |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
IhrFussel: the ASM code is only ever in parts that would only work with one specific CPU |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
e.g. the boot code has many different versions to boot various platforms |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
also, there's a lot of ASM code in drivers for hardware that only ever exists on a single platform |
| 19:03 |
sofar |
e.g. imagine the Intel GFX chipset - it can only ever exist on x86, so there's no need to avoid ASM code |
| 19:03 |
IhrFussel |
I see so if a new CPU type gets introduced Linux first needs to make new code for it ... Does every Android OS have built-in mouse/keyboard support? Originally it was only made for touchscreens no? |
| 19:04 |
sofar |
older android don't support mouse/kbd afaik |
| 19:04 |
tenplus1 |
you can use bluetooth/wireless keyboard.mouse with android :) |
| 19:04 |
IhrFussel |
But could you just say install Android 4+ on your PC with ARM CPU and it would run? |
| 19:05 |
tenplus1 |
most Pi boards can run android and arm linux |
| 19:06 |
IhrFussel |
Cause I saw "mini pcs" at my electronic shop and when I asked what OS they have "Android" |
| 19:06 |
rubenwardy |
they likely use a modified version |
| 19:07 |
IhrFussel |
Ok so stock Android is most likely not compatible with desktop PCs |
| 19:07 |
tenplus1 |
you can get x86 android versions to install on desktops |
| 19:07 |
tenplus1 |
but not all hardware is supported |
| 19:07 |
IhrFussel |
I did once in Virtual Box...but are those versions official? |
| 19:08 |
tenplus1 |
http://www.android-x86.org/ |
| 19:09 |
tenplus1 |
it's like linux... uses the main kernel and a distro built from that |
| 19:09 |
IhrFussel |
But no official support from Google right? |
| 19:10 |
tenplus1 |
google helps the kernel along and android stuff in it's own way :) |
| 19:10 |
tenplus1 |
and you already get chromebooks from google |
| 19:11 |
IhrFussel |
So the project always works on the newest Android version? Not like Ubuntu that's locked with 1 Linux version? |
| 19:11 |
tenplus1 |
ubuntu has kernel updates all the time :P |
| 19:12 |
IhrFussel |
I mean 14.04 used 3.13 Linux until 16.04 |
| 19:12 |
tenplus1 |
especially when security updates available |
| 19:12 |
tenplus1 |
they use the stable version of the kernel that was tested with that version, yes... |
| 19:12 |
IhrFussel |
And 16.04 is stuck with 4.4 |
| 19:13 |
tenplus1 |
which is why it's usually best to update ubuntu/linux when a new LTS is available |
| 19:13 |
tenplus1 |
you can also go onto ubuntu kernel page and download.install latest if you really want it :DD |
| 19:13 |
tenplus1 |
am using 4.10 |
| 19:13 |
IhrFussel |
But those aren't tested I'm pretty sure...so own risk |
| 19:14 |
tenplus1 |
http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ |
| 19:14 |
tenplus1 |
can install up to 4.12 kernel on ubuntu from there :P |
| 19:14 |
tenplus1 |
and yes, ubuntu tend to use tested kernels... |
| 19:15 |
IhrFussel |
I mean if I use a custom kernel version there is no guarantee that it will be compatible with future Ubuntu updates |
| 19:16 |
tenplus1 |
they usually do, but always worth testing :) |
| 19:17 |
rubenwardy |
brb, 17.04 upgrade |
| 19:17 |
tenplus1 |
nice :P |
| 19:21 |
IhrFussel |
What would you do if you would have an OS that deletes everything after reboot again xD Which software would you bother to install or which games would you play |
| 19:21 |
tenplus1 |
you mean booting from flash drive ? |
| 19:22 |
IhrFussel |
Live USB Drive is what I'm using yep...and I didn't make it persistent |
| 19:22 |
tenplus1 |
gotta install it properly to get full usage |
| 19:23 |
tenplus1 |
live usb is good for testing and quick access to internet or files... |
| 19:24 |
tenplus1 |
I always have an 8gb flash drive in my wallet with Xubuntu 16.04.3 64-bit live on it just incase I need it :) |
| 19:24 |
IhrFussel |
Well I only had 1 HDD and that one is dead now...I'm happy that I even found this sold stick |
| 19:24 |
tenplus1 |
heh, good to have a backup handy... |
| 19:24 |
IhrFussel |
old* |
| 19:27 |
tenplus1 |
when you get the chance I would make a new flash drive with 16.06.3 on it... |
| 19:28 |
tenplus1 |
er... 16.04.3 even hah |
| 19:36 |
IhrFussel |
You saved me joining the ubuntu channel tomorrow and asking where to download 16.06.3 haha xD |
| 19:37 |
tenplus1 |
distrowatch.org has many .iso files for all sorts of linux distro's :D |
| 19:42 |
sofar |
euh, they link to a website that attempts to make money for physical media |
| 19:42 |
tenplus1 |
ignore the sales pitch, the .iso files and downloads are free :P |
| 19:42 |
sofar |
I wouldn't go through distrowatch for a download image, who knows what you'll actually get? |
| 19:43 |
tenplus1 |
never had an issue with images from there before sofar |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
yeah those bots are difficult to detect |
| 19:49 |
tenplus1 |
bots ? |
| 19:56 |
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| 19:57 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 20:20 |
tenplus1 |
nite folks :P |
| 20:20 |
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| 20:36 |
RobbieF |
have a great weekend all! |
| 20:36 |
Jordach |
lol |
| 20:36 |
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| 20:49 |
Fixer |
wth, many pages of discussions today |
| 20:52 |
* Fixer |
sips some wine |
| 20:53 |
paramat |
unfortunately not in dev channel :] |
| 20:55 |
Fixer |
right |
| 20:56 |
Fixer |
time to also sing usual motto: JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY~~` |
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