| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:17 |
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| 00:25 |
MTDiscord |
<landarvargan> When I compile with ASAN (Address Sanitizer set to Yes (/fsanitize=address)): |
| 00:25 |
MTDiscord |
<landarvargan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1270538173247918181/errors.txt?ex=66b41061&is=66b2bee1&hm=48843540194a87d9d22f26dd27a743bb4571d23920dbe11c43d2811ba4d12af4& |
| 00:51 |
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| 01:11 |
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| 01:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Huh, think I can reproduce this with MSVC? |
| 01:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I was running a Release build of latest master with MSVC only last Saturday. |
| 01:27 |
MTDiscord |
<landarvargan> I see the words MSVC and Visual Studio together a lot, I think they're the same? |
| 01:28 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> MSVC is the Visual Studio Compiler. But my build setup may be different, I have custom scripts. |
| 01:29 |
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| 01:48 |
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| 02:00 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I thought about this for a while and came up with one idea: corrupted vtable. |
| 02:02 |
MTDiscord |
<landarvargan> Doesn't seem to happen with RUN_IN_PLACE release builds |
| 02:02 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Sweet, that's a good tip. |
| 02:26 |
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| 02:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> @landarvargan |
| 02:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> cmake add_compile_options("/fsanitize=address") add_link_options("/fsanitize=address") |
| 02:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> to compile with ASan. Working for me so far. |
| 02:26 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Stick it in the top of the root CMakeLists.txt sometime after project(). |
| 02:32 |
Noisytoot |
asan is not ubsan |
| 02:32 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Linker flag is unrecognized, and failed with "LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file 'clang_rt.asan_dynamic_runtime_thunk-x86_64.lib'" |
| 02:32 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> We are aware, but it still might show something. |
| 02:32 |
Noisytoot |
ubsan is -fsanitize=undefined |
| 02:32 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Yes, MSVC doesn't have that. |
| 03:01 |
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| 03:12 |
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| 03:12 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> @Lars esp. and others, it would be good to have "global" entities. Such entities always exist until manually removed by the remove method. The server will never put it to sleep. get_staticdata is ignored. All players (well, taking into account the limited observers) can see/know about this entity, regardless of their view range, since part of the entity may still be in view for large entities. This would really simplify the |
| 03:12 |
MTDiscord |
battle royale implementation/workarounds I have to perform where I attempt to achieve the same thing. |
| 03:21 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> if devs agree I can make an issue |
| 03:23 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I agree |
| 03:25 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> https://tenor.com/view/milhouse-simpsons-frisbee-lonely-loneliness-gif-22891693 |
| 03:44 |
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| 04:00 |
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| 04:34 |
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| 06:35 |
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| 08:37 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> I could definitely use that |
| 09:19 |
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| 10:44 |
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| 13:11 |
sfan5 |
it looks like we aren't any closer to a solution to the keybinding issue than before |
| 14:20 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> We are, considering we're more OK than before with not fixing it C: |
| 14:20 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> MisterE: Not yet sure whether this is the best way to go, but sure, open an issue for further discussion. Better than to have the discussion scattered here in chat. |
| 15:04 |
rubenwardy |
is the issue #14545 ? |
| 15:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14545 -- SDL: Some keybinds broken due to missing character lookup |
| 15:08 |
rubenwardy |
this issue was opened over a year ago, that would have been plenty of time for a proper fix |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
naive suggestion, could we add support for bindings based on text value just for this case |
| 15:10 |
rubenwardy |
or hard code something just for slash |
| 15:10 |
rubenwardy |
or does SDL2 fully separate key press and text entry values |
| 15:10 |
sfan5 |
bindings based on text value is literally what we (want to) have and what is causing this issue |
| 15:11 |
sfan5 |
there's no way with sdl2 to get the character that a key event has produced |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
could the game mode listen for / text entry instead of slash keypress? |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
oh wait |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
I remember - listening for text entry disables IME stuff |
| 15:12 |
rubenwardy |
or something |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
so there's four options: don't fix, short term hack, longer term fix, disable SDL2 for 5.9 |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
indeed |
| 15:15 |
rubenwardy |
if a short term hack doesn't luck possible, we might have to disable SDL2 for 5.9.0 and work on a longer term fix for 5.10 |
| 15:15 |
rubenwardy |
*look |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
though with 4 the question is: what about 5.9? it's not like it magically solve itself |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
5.10* |
| 15:16 |
rubenwardy |
do you know what the longer term fix would be? |
| 15:16 |
rubenwardy |
I guess if you can't get text value, you can't bind to the text of `/`. But with modifier support users could bind to shift+7 |
| 15:17 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 15:17 |
nrz |
What was the issue présent on 5.8 ? Can we move back to this behavior ? |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
5.8 didn't use SDL2 |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
it's a hack, but could we hardcode a case for shift+7 to trigger / |
| 15:19 |
rubenwardy |
ah https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14894/files |
| 15:19 |
sfan5 |
fyi + and - are the next two obvious problems and I don't know if the same workaround applies there |
| 15:26 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> 5th option for /: remove it |
| 15:39 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Likely something like, manually map all the different IME scan codes... |
| 15:40 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Then if a user has a new scan code combo, then we record that in some sort of key mapping input system. |
| 15:46 |
rubenwardy |
could it be worth posting on SDL forums / irc to ask what they recommend? |
| 15:47 |
sfan5 |
i bet the answer is "sdl3" |
| 15:47 |
rubenwardy |
probably one of the answers but hopefully there's others |
| 15:47 |
rubenwardy |
the API says there's `unicode` on keydown only, could that be remembered for keyup? |
| 15:48 |
rubenwardy |
or does that not take modifiers into account |
| 15:50 |
rubenwardy |
great, pausing MT in a debugger causes my cursor to not be visible when in other windows |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<y5nw> rubenwardy: SDL's key events no longer have a unicode field |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
ah great |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
I guess that's what the `unused` field is |
| 15:54 |
rubenwardy |
The SDL docs says that textinput default to ON on desktop. What's the disadvantage of doing this and not calling SDL_StopTextInput on desktop? I guess it messes with IME software? |
| 15:55 |
rubenwardy |
https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL2/SDL_StartTextInput |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
y5nw |
Yes, it messed with IME |
| 15:57 |
y5nw |
Also it seems like I get a constant 0x7026 for the unused field when the key is pressed down and 0x0 when the key is released |
| 15:59 |
y5nw |
Nevermind, the value of the unused field seems to change when you run it again, but stays constant throughout the session |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
is there a way of working around the IME issue? For example, SDL_HINT_IME_SHOW_UI = false |
| 16:00 |
y5nw |
I bet that is for when we handle preedit ourselves (and don't need the candidate window) |
| 16:00 |
rubenwardy |
yeah I was thinking the same |
| 16:01 |
rubenwardy |
Well, certainly a tricky one |
| 16:02 |
rubenwardy |
it's kind of funny how it's the opposite to gamepads. With Irrlicht, we have no idea what gamepad button is what but with SDL we do |
| 16:02 |
Noisytoot |
removing / is the worst possible option |
| 16:03 |
Noisytoot |
I always use / (and .) when typing commands |
| 16:03 |
rubenwardy |
Can we tell if IME is installed? |
| 16:03 |
rubenwardy |
if so, could only SDL_StopTextInput then |
| 16:04 |
y5nw |
You might be able to put in an IME check on X11 by checking the XMODIFIERS variable |
| 16:06 |
rubenwardy |
sorry I'm just throwing ideas at the sink |
| 16:08 |
rubenwardy |
So #14874 makes it possible to bind to shift+7. Could we ship with support for multiple layouts? Either by detecting the layout or including multiple bindings |
| 16:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14874 -- Allow keybindings with modifiers by y5nw |
| 16:08 |
rubenwardy |
Looks like + = shift+= and - = shift+6 on AZERTY |
| 16:08 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Yep that's an option, handle IME ourselves |
| 16:08 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/g2p/8597984 |
| 16:09 |
y5nw |
The problem with my PR is that it doesn't (and IMO: shouldn't) handle layouts, and I'm increasingly leaning toward using scancodes for keybindings |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:11 |
y5nw |
"doesn't" in that the behavior for keycodes remains the same in terms of letting the Irrlicht device handle keyboard layout switching. "Shouldn't" in the sense that this can get weird with IMEs |
| 16:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> a problem to consider is that we'll probably break user keybinding configurations twice: one time in 5.9 by switching to SDL and another time in a later release by switching to scancodes |
| 16:13 |
y5nw |
("Shouldn't" less in terms of IMEs actually. More in terms of not adding unnecessary complexity IMO) |
| 16:13 |
rubenwardy |
So with scancodes, you'd bind to the key that is / in a QWERTY keyboard but may be something else in other keyboards? |
| 16:13 |
y5nw |
rubenwardy: exactly |
| 16:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> but it's obviously more useful for WASD than for / |
| 16:14 |
y5nw |
so the / key is then always the key left of the Right Shift key regardless of the keyboard layout |
| 16:14 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 16:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> if we actually want to switch to scancodes (do we?), maybe it would make sense to bundle the breakage |
| 16:17 |
rubenwardy |
does playing on other keyboard layouts already require rebinding the layout? I assume so as WASD would be broken |
| 16:17 |
y5nw |
A thing to note for scancodes is that it will also be applied to modifier keys, so it breaks e.g. ctrl:swapcaps. I would assume that is easy/easier to work around though |
| 16:33 |
rubenwardy |
ok so we're no closer after all that |
| 16:34 |
y5nw |
It seems like you can work around that problem by using keycodes for modifier keys and scancodes for other keys (the .mod field is based on keycodes apparently) |
| 16:35 |
rubenwardy |
sounds good |
| 16:35 |
rubenwardy |
how much work is scancode support? |
| 16:36 |
MTDiscord |
<nrz0> if they ask for SDL3, is this a big change for us ? what would be the blocker ? (appart we are in freeze, but we can imagine put efforts in it ?) |
| 16:36 |
y5nw |
That's the hard part. We would still need keycodes for e.g. ^C and ^V so we would need to extend the KeyPress class to include both scancodes and keycodes (and the associated complications from that, e.g. comparison and matching) |
| 16:37 |
rubenwardy |
@nrz0: SDL3 isn't even released yet |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<nrz0> then they should not tell us to use it 😄 |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<nrz0> isn't there is other games using SDL2 we can check code ? |
| 16:37 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> The KeyPress class is a MT thing and not involved in GUI shortcuts at all afaik |
| 16:38 |
y5nw |
Oops. I meant SKeyEvent from Irrlicht |
| 16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> There must be something, and I bet they rely on scancodes |
| 16:39 |
y5nw |
(That would be easier though. KeyPress would then be fully based on scancodes with the exception of modifier keys using keycodes) |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Wait, is there a problem at all? Haven't tested yet, but don't situations that could require ^C or ^V for copy/paste also enable text input which then sends it properly? |
| 16:40 |
y5nw |
^C and ^V are apparently sent by SDL even with text input enabled |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Yeah, and? |
| 16:41 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> They aren't when it is disabled, and should when it is enabled, right? |
| 16:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> ^C and ^V do not depend on textinput. keycodes are enough for them. |
| 16:43 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> I mean keycodes suffice to implement them |
| 16:43 |
rubenwardy |
Next week, we will have been in feature freeze for 2 months. Which feels like a record |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
If there's no end in sight, my vote is for releasing 5.9 without SDL2 and working on scancodes/modifiers for 5.10 |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
we could disable SDL2 on desktop platforms and keep it for Android |
| 16:50 |
celeron55 |
that seems like an ok option to me as long as it seems there's a viable feature set that can be added that will make sdl2 keybinds acceptable for 5.10 |
| 16:53 |
celeron55 |
the things to add would probably be modifiers and trying to migrate the old default keys for multiple common keyboard layouts |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
It doesn't look like it's possible to use text entry here, so we'll have to switch to scancodes and always use the key next to the right shift |
| 16:53 |
jonadab |
I expect it may always be possible for an IME to much things up for games, especially if it's the kind that's intended to require multiple keypresses for anything at all to happen (e.g, Anthy). |
| 16:54 |
rubenwardy |
the user can always rebind it to their actual / key |
| 16:56 |
celeron55 |
i'm doubtful of users appreciating just getting it to that point where it's possible to rebind / as modifier+scancode but not to automatically migrate old keybinds to that, but at least it's on the same path |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
well better to break bindings once than multiple releases in a row |
| 16:57 |
celeron55 |
i definitely agree with that |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
we could add support for modifiers now and ask users to rebind / if needed |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
but then bindings would break again with scancodes |
| 17:05 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> So scan codes only and force rebinds in 5.10? |
| 17:07 |
Mantar |
What all does SDL get us on desktop that you'd need to break keybinds on 5.9.0 release instead of disable it until it's fixed? |
| 17:08 |
celeron55 |
(unrelated: i invited cx384 to the core team on github now) |
| 17:08 |
celeron55 |
maybe if better controller support also got into 5.10 (or whatever the "SDL2 release" ends up being), it would make people allow some keybinding hurdle |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
Too much to do, too little time |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
that's life in a nutshell |
| 17:55 |
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| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<nrz0> rubenwardy the link on the announcement on the forum (https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#5.8.0_.E2.86.92_5.9.0) doesn't load |
| 17:58 |
rubenwardy |
Not sure why you're pinging me about celeron55's machine being slow 😂 |
| 17:59 |
rubenwardy |
It loads after a while for me |
| 18:01 |
celeron55 |
it loaded fast previously |
| 18:01 |
celeron55 |
let's see if it fixes itself 8) |
| 18:02 |
celeron55 |
looks like the forum works fine-ish, but both wikis are essentially down |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<nrz0> sorry ruben, it's because i read your announcement , but yeah it was for c55 😄 |
| 18:49 |
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| 19:38 |
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| 20:13 |
sfan5 |
sooo |
| 20:13 |
sfan5 |
what will be the solution for 5.9.0? |
| 20:16 |
Mantar |
Is there any reason not to just disable SDL on desktop and only enable it for Android? |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
(that link does work now) |
| 20:17 |
sfan5 |
Mantar: possible |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
is the only practical downside that touchscreen input isn't available on desktop builds without SDL? |
| 20:19 |
sfan5 |
we also lose native wayland support on linux |
| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
touchscreen support on desktop is definitely something a few people have been asking, but it's a minority |
| 20:19 |
sfan5 |
(but neither of those were in 5.8 so it's not actually a downgrade) |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
the reasons for sdl will continue building up, but so far the list is not long |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
the biggest risk is that not making releases with SDL will make people wary of making contributions using SDL, so the features will never build up like they could |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
that's why it's not wise to hold on to irrlicht for long |
| 20:21 |
Mantar |
Disabling it on desktop until 5.10 was rubenwardy's suggestion, and it seems like the sensible choice to me |
| 20:22 |
Mantar |
anybody who wants to work on/test SDL stuff can enable it in their compile for the time being, and deal with any busted keys |
| 20:23 |
sfan5 |
small note that with the "release train" methodology we're looking at "delay it until the next release" is not valid |
| 20:23 |
sfan5 |
because we won't be wanting to delay 5.10 due to this |
| 20:23 |
sfan5 |
it becomes more of a "delay it until ready" |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
yes it's not wise to set it for 5.10. if it's not now, then it's just some unknown future release |
| 20:23 |
rubenwardy |
yeah ofc |
| 20:24 |
Mantar |
true, I was not suggesting putting it into a 5.10 milestone, just saying it sounds like people have ideas on how to fix it that will probably be ready by then |
| 21:44 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> IMHO test in production and collect actual regressions and use cases |
| 22:00 |
MTDiscord |
<single_digit_iq> when minetest will be renamed into excavation experiment already?😕 |
| 22:00 |
sfan5 |
soon |
| 22:00 |
MTDiscord |
<single_digit_iq> 🔥 |
| 22:01 |
MTDiscord |
<single_digit_iq> digging trial is also good, but excavation experiment is more elaborate :> |
| 22:02 |
Mantar |
call it gnu/minecraft |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> call it Antelope Excavation Tinkering |
| 22:03 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> (the above but more elaborate) |
| 22:33 |
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| 23:05 |
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| 23:29 |
pgimeno |
I don't know what the decision on workflow was, but if the one I proposed is adopted, I wanted to note that you have to think two versions ahead. With that workflow, the scancodes patch can't go into 5.10 unless it's ready by the time 5.9 is released, which seems extremely unlikely. It would be for 5.11. |
| 23:31 |
pgimeno |
I'm mentioning it because rubenwardy put much emphasis on getting scancodes on 5.10, and because I'm in the dark about what the decision about workflow is. |
| 23:54 |
Mantar |
way I see it, you can fast-track bugfixes in any workflow |
