| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
nekobit |
Oh hell yeah, managed to get a formspec working now |
| 00:03 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> nekobit : what is your goal exactly, like what is the problem you're trying to solve? |
| 00:03 |
nekobit |
Well, got sidetracked, and wanted to add the Settings menu to the pause menu |
| 00:04 |
nekobit |
but to do so, I have to port the current menu to C++, which isn't hard, considering a majority of the lua file is formspec with a bit of core functions sprinkled in (which are literally just barebone wrappers to C++ functions anwyay...) |
| 00:04 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> That does sound interesting, wouldn't that expose mid rendering changes that would require a restart? Does the engine even support reloading textures? Say if you change the transparency of leaves, wouldn't that break something? |
| 00:05 |
nekobit |
I imagine that could be a roadblock, however, if such a thing were to happen i could just say "restart required" given i were lazy, however, I doubt its impossible, I could just reinitialize everything. |
| 00:06 |
nekobit |
But whats more important out of this would be the ability to change the fov, merge the keybinds interface and audio interface |
| 00:07 |
nekobit |
i think this is worth it though |
| 00:07 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> If you do add a way to reinitialize everything, did you also add a key bind you can do it without changing settings or going into the menus? |
| 00:07 |
nekobit |
like a restart engine keybind or something? |
| 00:08 |
nekobit |
dunno what u mean... |
| 00:09 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1255313971074830377/Screenshot_20240625-200859_1.png?ex=667cadbd&is=667b5c3d&hm=371663c0136da3e992680001b75760ba7db7af8d575e99601229e9799223d4b5& |
| 00:09 |
nekobit |
yeah i figured this is what u meant. I guess so, but I don't think it'd be very useful incase glitches were occuring |
| 00:10 |
nekobit |
but adding the settings menu into the pause menu would let me remove the sound and keybinds thing, well, id need to merge the keybinds into the settings, but that would obviously be more consistent |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> That's not the use case, it would make texture pack creation easier that you could see what you were doing as you were saving it to disk without reloading the whole client. |
| 00:11 |
nekobit |
idk if such a thing is even possible in minetest atm |
| 00:11 |
nekobit |
at that point it would just be live mod reloading |
| 00:11 |
nekobit |
which is a separate issue at hand |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> Feature request? |
| 00:11 |
nekobit |
for texture updates that would work (but it depends on if the textures are loaded into memory) |
| 00:11 |
nekobit |
what about a Feature request? |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> I was implying that once you're finished what you're doing, you just keep doing cool things until you hit the end of the possibility space ?😁 |
| 00:13 |
nekobit |
maybe i can do such a thing, but id prefer to stay away from any engine tomfoolery |
| 00:14 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> Bur tom-foolery is the reason why you're on an IRC in the first place, your username gave you the NoIRC tag |
| 00:14 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> I thought you were cool |
| 00:15 |
nekobit |
heh |
| 00:15 |
nekobit |
i mean, its probably not hard to add a button to do it, i think its possible for sure |
| 00:15 |
nekobit |
for now i wanna get this out of the way |
| 00:15 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> K |
| 00:15 |
nekobit |
need to eat thou |
| 00:20 |
nekobit |
https://files.catbox.moe/39u2v4.png |
| 00:29 |
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| 00:43 |
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| 01:03 |
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| 01:37 |
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| 02:09 |
nekobit |
is there a c++ fmt function anywheer so i can avoid using the dreaded stringstream |
| 02:09 |
nekobit |
or like a snprintf function |
| 02:12 |
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| 02:12 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> std::format |
| 02:13 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> But we can’t use it yet. |
| 02:13 |
nekobit |
yeah ik |
| 02:14 |
nekobit |
a portable asprintf-like function would work for me though |
| 02:14 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> A C sprintf type function might work best, although you can’t use it to write to a std::string data buffer directly. |
| 02:14 |
nekobit |
yes, so im asking if such a function exists in the codebase already |
| 02:15 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Ah yeah, that’s clearer now. |
| 02:16 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It’d probably be in our string.h header if we had one. That’s where it should be anyway, unless we have a format.h header but I think we don’t. |
| 02:16 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> To clarify we do have a string.h header. |
| 02:47 |
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| 02:59 |
nekobit |
https://files.catbox.moe/65w9eb.png |
| 02:59 |
nekobit |
:) |
| 02:59 |
nekobit |
All C++ |
| 03:15 |
nekobit |
I'll call it quit for the night as i got work, but I think I will be able to get this finished in 2 days (if i focus) |
| 03:21 |
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| 03:27 |
nekobit |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14781 |
| 03:37 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> seems it would be easier and more sensible to just move the pause menu to lua anyways, and call the settings menu |
| 03:38 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> iirc didnt you hack the setting menu into the pause menu already @rollerozxa ? |
| 03:47 |
nekobit |
wsor4035: Yes, we already talked about that |
| 03:47 |
nekobit |
tbh im not rewriting much, so i figured it wouldnt be hard |
| 03:56 |
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| 08:03 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah moving any of this that's in lua back into C++ is completely the wrong approach, I thought I could steer you in the right direction |
| 08:09 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> you don't need to rewrite the entire pause menu into lua to make it possible though, but just add a button in the pause menu that calls a lua callback in C++ that you then implement in builtin. but once the politics of always enabling client modding for builtin regardless of what stuck-up server admins think gets sorted out I'd have both a pause menu rewritten in lua as well as a password change dialog waiting to be merged |
| 08:31 |
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| 12:33 |
nekobit |
Okay, thankyou gusy. |
| 12:33 |
nekobit |
I did not sleep well, so will not w9rk on anything today |
| 12:36 |
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| 13:04 |
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| 13:21 |
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| 13:22 |
grorp |
sfan5: can I merge #14772? |
| 13:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14772 -- Make button sprites (scrollbar arrows) DPI-aware by grorp |
| 13:22 |
sfan5 |
yews |
| 13:22 |
sfan5 |
-w |
| 13:23 |
grorp |
nice, merging then |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:42 |
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| 14:13 |
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| 15:08 |
nekobit |
rollerozxa, rubenwardy: How exactly would I go about bring Lua to game.cpp? In my past attempt, it would segfault when i attempted to do lua_getglobal |
| 15:09 |
nekobit |
game.cpp houses the pause menu and such |
| 15:09 |
nekobit |
Ofc, id need a separate lua environment I think, one that exposes more client-side functions |
| 15:09 |
nekobit |
but I am not sure how to do this, and I cant find any examples of such besides s_base.cpp (?) |
| 15:10 |
nekobit |
rubenwardy |
| 15:10 |
nekobit |
idk why thats not pinging |
| 15:11 |
nekobit |
The most that game.cpp already does is call a lua function when a modded death screen is displayed, but thats barebones and only works with a precondition |
| 15:20 |
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| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
I suggest not doing that, the implications are far too wide |
| 15:25 |
nekobit |
sfan5: See the GitHub issue. I was asked to not port my settings in pause to C++ |
| 15:28 |
nekobit |
unless youre implying to just remove the c++ and implement pausing client side |
| 15:30 |
nekobit |
but then i couldnt use the main menu stuff... |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
We want two client side environments - trusted and untrusted. Trusted would contain pause menu settings and always be loaded |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
That's the eventual state |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
Untrusted would be for SSCSM |
| 15:32 |
rubenwardy |
Which doesn't exist yet |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:33 |
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| 15:34 |
nekobit |
thats what i was intending by that. |
| 15:35 |
nekobit |
i want to expose setting and such in its own lua environment |
| 15:36 |
nekobit |
My only issue is, how do i do it? Create a new lua stack in game.cpp? |
| 15:38 |
nekobit |
I think itd be a good opportunity to redesign the pause menu anyway. The current one is pretty barebones.. |
| 15:55 |
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| 16:30 |
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| 16:38 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Start by giving modders the chance to override it |
| 16:38 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> That would be a great feature to have |
| 17:04 |
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| 17:11 |
nekobit |
That sounds like a good idea, kinda like sfinv |
| 17:11 |
nekobit |
Something to add buttons |
| 17:13 |
nekobit |
Actually, overriding isnt a good idea... servers could be ugly and remove the ability to quit or something |
| 17:14 |
nekobit |
But adding buttons could work |
| 17:19 |
pgimeno |
I'd suggest keeping feature creep to the minimum, lest the PR stays there forever and a day |
| 17:20 |
nekobit |
Its cool. Adding buttons is probably all ill do, which isnt necessarily a big feature |
| 17:20 |
nekobit |
i.e. a server could add an admin menu or login history |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> RE "servers could be ugly and remove the ability to quit": that's not engine's responsibility. I can already do pretty nasty stuff without the custom pause menu |
| 17:56 |
Mantar |
I think it makes sense to not allow removing (or altering) the exit button |
| 17:57 |
ROllerozxa |
you can already destroy the ability to exit through the pause menu by repeatedly sending a formspec on every step or by setting a formspec prepend that will put the entire pause menu in an off-screen formspec container |
| 17:57 |
Mantar |
that's rude |
| 17:58 |
Mantar |
seems like a misfeature to me |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> That's how you perma unban people, make it so they can't leave |
| 17:59 |
Mantar |
lol |
| 18:00 |
Mantar |
yeah let me reskin the other bits of the pause menu, shuffle buttons around, that's all fine, but the quit button should remain no matter what |
| 18:01 |
Mantar |
then if people hate my game at least they don't have the extra irritation of finding what I've turned the quit button into |
| 18:05 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> If we remove this feature we'll end up in a situation where people are making massive hacks to reimplement it |
| 18:07 |
Mantar |
maybe, who all is using it though? |
| 18:07 |
Mantar |
I don't think I've seen anything do more than reskin the exit button |
| 18:08 |
Mantar |
doubt it'd be even remotely as big a deal than the sneak glitch was |
| 18:08 |
nekobit |
,/qiut |
| 18:09 |
nekobit |
whoops |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You can move the menu around to make it fancy like hug the left side of the window |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The quit button is not a major issue. It's super rude to hide it, but there aren't really any comsumer-level OSs that don't offer some kind of "kill the misbehaving application" for stuff that livelocks and doesn't let you quit. We shouldn't be treating it like it's some kind of security risk. |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> There's really no need to be able to hide or remove it, but if somebody figures out a way to do so, it's still not the end of the world. |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:13 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> And not being a dick to the user is the responsibility of game creators / server owners, not necessarily the engine. |
| 18:16 |
Mantar |
I don't think anybody's saying it's a security risk, just that it would be totally reasonable to have the quit button be immutable |
| 18:25 |
nekobit |
literally why would anyone override the pause menu |
| 18:25 |
nekobit |
just let them add buttons, which is likely what they want to do anyway |
| 18:29 |
Mantar |
reskinning can be nice, but otherwise yeah, adding buttons is the thing I'd want. I don't see much value in altering the quit button in particular vs the likely nuisance factor it holds |
| 18:30 |
Mantar |
on the subject of adding buttons, Exile could also really stand to add extra buttons on the "create new world" page |
| 18:31 |
nekobit |
I can only imagine a mod improperly hooking the pause menu to add some extra thing which only makes it inconsistent or harder for other mods to override |
| 18:31 |
nekobit |
so im against the idea, unless someone else says its harmless |
| 18:32 |
nekobit |
i care less about people being an ass with it and more about how modders would even utilize it |
| 18:33 |
nekobit |
And honestly, itd be weird joining a server only for it to change up the pause menu which imo would just make things less consistent. This is already the case with the inventory |
| 18:34 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> I highly disagree, especially when the current standard is, professionaly speaking, pure shit |
| 18:35 |
nekobit |
current standard of what? |
| 18:35 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Game creators should be able to customise basically everything |
| 18:35 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Inventory and pause menu |
| 18:35 |
Mantar |
mostly agree |
| 18:36 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> The former is Minecraft done worse, the latter is "dev designing interfaces" |
| 18:36 |
nekobit |
i guess it could be useful for minigame-type mods, maybe to add a built-in game list |
| 18:37 |
nekobit |
i feel like pause menu customization should be limited to games only, not mods |
| 18:37 |
Mantar |
but I don't think customizing the quit button is necessary, or even worth it |
| 18:38 |
Mantar |
and "games not mods" sounds reasonable, too. mods fighting over the pause menu sounds like a bad time |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> nekobit: don't overthink it IMHO |
| 18:39 |
nekobit |
mods can still add pause menu buttons btw, its not the end of the world. Games would just offer full control |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> games are composed of mods |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> how do you tell a game apart from a mod? it would require whole new APIs, probably |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> not worth it, random mods aren't going to alter the pause menu, like most mods aren't touching inventory |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> anyway |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> If you wanted games to have a privilege that add-on mods don't, the closest you'd do that wouldn't feel weird in our paradigm might be to offer an API that lets you disable certain types of further changes from being made. Which, I guess, you could probably already do by just patching out the API methods for them. |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It's also possible that a game might choose NOT to alter the pause menu specifically because they WANT an external mod to make that decision. |
| 18:41 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Mantar: you mentioned altering the world creation window, or just adding game-specific settings to it, and that sounds even more important than custom pause window to me |
| 18:42 |
nekobit |
cant the world creation window already do some things like that? |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> no, it can't |
| 18:42 |
nekobit |
also, there is the settings page for mods, but ofc thats limited to every mod |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> unless you repurpose existing feature toggles, which is... |
| 18:42 |
nekobit |
i think some mods that poke world generation have settings |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> no |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> If you can just add buttons to the pause menu that have a simple text label, and can either show a formspec (instant client-side) or trigger an event like a formspec send (allowing server-side control but with latency) that would probably be plenty to enable a lot of stuff. |
| 18:43 |
nekobit |
thats what i wanted to do initially, like how sfinv tabs work |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> well, currently you technically can put in-game game-specific settings in the inventory formspec, or such |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> what you can't do is changing (or at least adding to) the world creation settings |
| 18:44 |
Mantar |
yeah I'm stoked for that feature, I can add my player settings button to the pause menu. it's currently stuck in the character tab for lack of a better place |
| 18:45 |
nekobit |
Mantar: I think the idea would be useful for an admin menu tbh |
| 18:45 |
nekobit |
the current method is adding inventory tabs or a command |
| 18:45 |
Mantar |
neko: yeah, that too |
| 18:45 |
nekobit |
Then Ill start to work on it in a little, i just got off work. |
| 18:47 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The inventory screen is currently the way we often handle per-game/mod settings and such, it just sucks that users need to know to access a separate menu with a separate hotkey. Often they'll see the main pause menu and assume that's the only menu. |
| 18:47 |
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| 19:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<grorp> I think it doesn't make much sense to assume that servers/games/mods will abuse customisation opportunities to make the user experience worse. Of course they could, but it's in their best interest not to do that if they want to be played/installed. |
| 19:15 |
Mantar |
if I hate a game and want to quit, having to figure out that they've moved the exit button into this pink cube labeled "Fin" on the bottom right is just unnecessary irritation |
| 19:16 |
Mantar |
I'd prefer if it was like fire exits. you can design your store logos and signage any way you like, but not the fire exit signs, those have legal requirements |
| 19:16 |
celeron55_ |
my rule of thumb would be, make everything customizable that's possible to do in a future proof and secure way. the ones making the customizations will have user experience in their best interest so it will be taken care of automatically |
| 19:16 |
celeron55_ |
there's a chance of some mobile vs. desktop "fights" there though. that's part of future proofness, in a way |
| 19:18 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> It's already better than the way fire exits are designed, because you have to follow different signs for each building you're in, you can't just hit Alt+F4 from anywhere. |
| 19:18 |
Mantar |
I can attest that some of our younger mobile users already have trouble exiting as-is, which I admit colors my perception of the idea of potentially raising the bar for them |
| 19:20 |
nekobit |
I think i should pull a GNOME and just not let people customize it. Plus, there's a chance people just wont test things on mobile too |
| 19:20 |
nekobit |
Mods can add buttons if they want |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> nekobit: mobile doesn't bring problems with any designs I'm aware of and the button customization |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> there are two problems on mobile |
| 19:53 |
nekobit |
one of those is playing minetest on mobile |
| 19:54 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> firstly, mobile needs to expand the bottom panel (to access the "back" button) or the left-hand in-game menu to access the new (in MTE 5.8) in-game "back" button |
| 19:54 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> (the button shows the pause menu on mobile) |
| 19:56 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> secondly, if somebody does mess up the pause screen, mobile users need to expand the bottom panel to force quitting the app, because that's their Alt+F4 |
| 19:56 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> IMHO if somebody doesn't know how to do that, it's not our fault though |
| 19:56 |
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| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> it's on par with not knowing Alt+F4, which some people don't know too |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> hence the "Press Alt+F4 to get free <insert something here>" jokes on various in-game chats |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> they sometimes actually work |
| 19:58 |
nekobit |
does anyone know where the client-side lua is initialized? |
| 20:30 |
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| 20:52 |
nekobit |
so if im understanding correctly, absolutely zero Lua runs on the client (outside of the main menu), right? |
| 20:52 |
nekobit |
Which means if i want to make a pause menu in Lua, i'd need to initialize a new Lua stack? |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nekobit: there is the client mod environment. i believe it would make sense to introduce a "builtin" client mod as a counterpart to our "builtin" serverside mod, and to make the client mod environment mandatory rather than gating it via a setting. |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you will want to take a look at src/script/scripting_client.(h|cpp) |
| 20:58 |
nekobit |
luatic: I've already looked at scripting_client. My issue though is around src/client/game.cpp. The pause stuff is already implemented there. |
| 20:58 |
nekobit |
But there is no lua there, besides the scripting_client, which only works if modsLoaded() is true (which isn't in my case as an example) |
| 20:59 |
nekobit |
is there a client-side Lua stack I can use? |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nekobit: the plan is to always make "modsLoaded" be true. |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> by having a mandatory clientside builtin mod which is always loaded, akin to the serverside builtin mod. |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> this also makes sense for implementing some other things, such as chat autocompletion, in lua. |
| 21:01 |
nekobit |
Does the main menu not already do this? |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the main menu uses a different environment than clientside mods |
| 21:03 |
nekobit |
Well.. how should i accomplish this "client mod environment"? |
| 21:03 |
nekobit |
I don't even see a setting you are talking about regarding client side mods |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nekobit: enable_client_modding. |
| 21:07 |
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| 21:07 |
nekobit |
I see. Alright, now client->modsLoaded() is returning true. |
| 21:08 |
nekobit |
Wait. So the custom death formspec which is called via lua is a client side thing? |
| 21:08 |
nekobit |
I think things are starting to make sense then... |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> fwiw, making that return true was meant figuratively :P |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (of course it should then be refactored to entirely remove that function) |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (and any related checks, which should now assume that the client environment is present) |
| 21:41 |
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| 22:18 |
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| 22:34 |
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| 22:38 |
nekobit |
luatic Thank you buddy i got it working now |
| 22:39 |
nekobit |
I'm calling client->getScript()->show_pause_menu() now which i'll move all the formspec to Lua |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> Where does devtest define the modification to the world creation screen that allows it to say this game is intended for developers go download a different one here? |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1255655056498364548/Screenshot_20240626-184412.png?ex=667deb66&is=667c99e6&hm=43cfed0c8484b02f698b0afba6dec5ed02797408e60fae88f1c7a4bb463f198a& |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> I already looked in the game configuration files I can't find it |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> I'm pretty sure it's engine having it hardcoded. |
| 22:45 |
nekobit |
builtin/mainmenu/dlg_create_world.lua |
| 22:46 |
nekobit |
line 311 |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> Can we have a flag in the engine that does the same thing but isn't hard coding? |
| 22:46 |
nekobit |
From what i've picked up today, the world creation screen could use a revamp |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> It would be nice for things like void game, and other similar games that aren't intended for playing but more for testing. |
| 22:48 |
nekobit |
is y++ possible in Lua? something like (y = y+1) that gives me the original value of y |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> My to do list just keeps getting longer and longer. |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> there's no increment operator in Lua |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> and I'm not sure if assignment returns anything |
| 22:49 |
nekobit |
domb |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<redundantcc> I don't think there's a short hand, you could probably operate or overload but I don't think they would appreciate it |
| 22:51 |
nekobit |
is there a strgettext like function I can use in Lua? Trying to convert the c++ formspec to Lua and i need translation |
| 22:52 |
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| 23:05 |
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| 23:09 |
nekobit |
So uh, how exactly do I just "show" a formspec to the client? minetest.show_formspec doesn't seem like it's going to suffice since it expects a username (putting "singleplayer" does work though) |
| 23:11 |
nekobit |
Ah, the client api is different |
| 23:24 |
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| 23:42 |
nekobit |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14785 |
| 23:42 |
nekobit |
Alright, still need to move settings and a few other things in Lua, but seems to be working. |
| 23:42 |
nekobit |
Only thing I'm not sure about is what to do with the `enable_client_modding` setting. Remove it? |
| 23:50 |
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