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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2024-01-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:28 lhofhansl joined #minetest-dev
00:29 lhofhansl Should I be able to take the APKs generated by our Github build workflows and install them on (say) a Pixel 8?
00:30 lhofhansl I can install other downloaded APKs, but the Minetest ones fail to install. Has anybody tried that? (I tried both of the ARM flavors)
00:38 rubenwardy they're unsigned
00:38 rubenwardy you need sign them first
01:08 ShadowBot joined #minetest-dev
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02:25 sfan5 tip: .../android-sdk-linux/build-tools/30.0.3/apksigner sign --ks ~/.android/debug.keystore *.apk
02:30 sfan5 ah and the password for it is 'android'
05:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest-dev
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05:50 lhofhansl rubenwardy: I see. Thanks.
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08:24 calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev
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14:22 sfan5 merging #14220, #14207 in 5 to 10 m
14:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14220 -- Add "--needed" to Arch command to avoid reinstalling packages by Sovenok-Hacker
14:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14207 -- [no squash] Windows stuff by sfan5
14:22 sfan5 (m = minutes)
14:27 Krock wouldn't it be more intuitive to have --needed in front?
14:28 Krock if that's an option
14:29 sfan5 can do
14:31 Krock I hope it works ­čĄ×
14:31 Krock thanks for the change
14:32 MTDiscord <luatic> by the way, would core devs mind backporting Lua 5.2 features to our vendored Lua 5.1?
14:33 MTDiscord <luatic> the goal would be to remove the difference between LuaJIT / PUC builds. currently modders can write code that relies on JIT features (like goto) and hence won't run on PUC builds.
14:33 Krock by the way would it be possible to somehow add our MT modifications into an official Lua package? this way we could offload the maintenance burden
14:34 Krock your points are valid, though. would be nice if there was already such library out there. we cannot possibly be the only ones in this situation
14:34 Krock unless we'd entirely switch to LuaJIT?
14:37 sfan5 I am against maintaining a "real" Lua fork
14:37 sfan5 "real" = feature backports or so; not just some security / fix patches
14:38 sfan5 if you want lua 5.2 features the best approach is to revive the PR we had that added 5.2 support
14:38 sfan5 though I don't know if that then results in the opposite problem where code works on 5.2 but not luajit
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5: it would, 5.2 replaces setfenv with the weaker _ENV for example
14:39 sfan5 then that's off the table
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> ok
14:39 sfan5 maybe we should be looking at embedding JS? ;)
14:39 MTDiscord <luatic> oh no
14:40 MTDiscord <luatic> may I suggest our own lisp dialect instead ;)
14:40 sfan5 there are actually some good embeddable js libraries, not V8
14:41 Krock or switch to Chromium Embedded Framework. Features: JS scripting, formspec rendering, HTML5 + CSS3 support
14:41 MTDiscord <luatic> those embeddable libraries probably don't achieve V8 / LuaJIT performance though
14:41 Krock needless to say that's about 20 times the entire Minetest source code
14:42 MTDiscord <luatic> the gltf PR will probably end up somewhere at 2k+ loc btw. more than half of that will be a custom gltf loader, tinygltf is a hot mess.
14:42 MTDiscord <luatic> (speaking of bloat)
14:43 Krock what were again the reasons against Lua 5.4? I've heard there were quite some improvements in terms of performances compared to older versions
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> Lua 5.4 is not compatible with LuaJIT for one
14:43 MTDiscord <luatic> (LuaJIT lacks 5.4 features like integers)
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> also 5.4 features like integers are likely to break mods
14:44 Krock I mentioned this to check whether LuaJIT could be superseded
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> Lua 5.4 has quite some improvements, but it's still not as good as JIT
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> performance-wise
14:44 Krock alright
14:44 MTDiscord <luatic> well, I can live with 5.1
14:45 MTDiscord <luatic> "somewhere around 5.1 / JIT" is probably the most popular Lua version
14:46 MTDiscord <luatic> I believe we could remove 5.2+ features from JIT btw just by setting some defines, so stuff like goto wouldn't work anymore. Not sure whether that's a good idea, some modders might want to write JIT-only mods (like jitprofiler).
14:46 MTDiscord <wsor4035> Quickjs ng and rmlui
14:46 MTDiscord <wsor4035> Would give you chromium much smaller
14:48 MTDiscord <luatic> if i interpret that table correctly, it's 30x slower than V8. that's awfully slow.
14:48 MTDiscord <luatic> swapping LuaJIT for that would be like swapping a racing horse for a disabled mule.
14:49 nrz Krock it's CEL you search. Like skyrim
14:50 MTDiscord <luatic> CEL?
14:50 MTDiscord <warr1024> Locking JIT-only features behind a barrier like the way we do insecure environment might be a decent compromise, letting us have jitprofiler while still discouraging modders strongly from locking us in
14:50 nrz CEF, it's a good idea for a major but badly documented
14:51 MTDiscord <luatic> major release?
14:51 MTDiscord <luatic> computer science major?
14:51 MTDiscord <wsor4035> Chromium embedded framework I think
14:51 Krock nrz: my mention of CEF was not to be taken seriously. unfortunately I forgot to mark that
14:53 nrz Remember that switch scripting engine means big break, but we could rework pour bindings at least on callbacks to have generic plugable engine
14:56 Krock at this point it's nonsense to even try to build up a new scripting language. Just look at lua_api.md which has grown to insane lengths already. In the long run it's probably best to use a  maintained version of Lua 5.1 if we don't want to make LuaJIT a hard dependency
16:06 nrz 5.1 is Not maintained no.
16:07 nrz ?
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18:10 zarac joined #minetest-dev
18:14 zarac anyone know if sfence / appgurueu hang around here? (got a question / comment regarding this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14129/commits/1badd1dd60fda8d1ef4417b3ad6f46ca69d57abf )
18:16 zarac It'd be nice if it reconnects back to original host upon transfer failure. It's not obvious to me from the commit that this is done.
18:16 zarac (so i think it doesn't) : ) .. seems like it maybe silently fails?
18:28 MTDiscord <luatic> I'm appgurueu and I hang around here, but I'm not a PR author, just a voluntary reviewer :)
18:28 MTDiscord <luatic> Why not just voice your concern on GitHub? sfence can address it there.
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