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| 15:22 |
rubenwardy |
@grorp: is #13850 ready to be merged? |
| 15:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13850 -- Notify users that they need to reinstall MTG if they still want it by grorp |
| 15:35 |
MTDiscord |
<grorp> yes! :) |
| 15:36 |
rubenwardy |
merging #13850 and #13739 in 10 then (the particle one seems to be waiting on feedback?) |
| 15:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13850 -- Notify users that they need to reinstall MTG if they still want it by grorp |
| 15:36 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13739 -- Add script to update/generate mod translations by Wuzzy2 |
| 15:48 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> rubenwardy: I was only curious about velartrill's take but if it's only for that I think you can proceed |
| 15:49 |
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| 15:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Anyone against removing the ASCII logo? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13287#issuecomment-1752052646 |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
Zughy: well, I'll wait for what Desour wants to do |
| 15:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Zughy: I'm in favor of removing the ASCII logo, actually. It's just spam in the terminal. |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:24 |
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| 16:25 |
lhofhansl |
Hey all... I would like to bring X2048's "god-rays" to Minetest, behind a proper setting. I have extracted a clean patch from his branch, and had it on for a quite a while. |
| 16:25 |
lhofhansl |
What's the best way to go about it? The easiest for me would be to create a branch from the patch in my fork, and then attribute it all to x2048. |
| 16:27 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> bfs branch? |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
yeah that makes sense, use your fork but keep the author info |
| 16:54 |
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| 17:01 |
grorp |
I'd like to have #13858 (or a different solution) in 5.8.0 so that Android users aren't greeted with an oversized hypertext[] when they open Minetest after the update. What do you think? |
| 17:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13858 -- Make hypertext[] respect font size settings by grorp |
| 17:02 |
grorp |
(The "reinstall MTG" dialog contains a hypertext[].) |
| 17:06 |
rubenwardy |
sounds good to me |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
using (* font_size / 16) makes sense to me |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:09 |
rubenwardy |
but a multiplier could be better, that would be like rem on the web |
| 18:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> maybe make just like ffmpeg --hide-banner, but for minetest? 🤔 |
| 18:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> maybe make just like ffmpeg -hide-banner, but for minetest? 🤔 |
| 18:20 |
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| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
I vote for keeping the ascii art |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
removing it to solve a minor visual bug with an uncommong option is a bad choice |
| 18:27 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> Neutral |
| 18:33 |
Krock |
the ASCII logo is nice. should be fixed instead of removing |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I've rebased #13609. |
| 18:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13609 -- Upgrade client active object mgr tests to Catch2 by JosiahWI |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think it's worth fixing just for --terminal, just close the issue |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
either that or get someone on hacktoberfest to look at it |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
or maybe not, there's so many more important things to be working on |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
the ASCII logo has close to 0 positive user impact |
| 18:48 |
pgimeno |
it helps me distinguish minetest boots visually in the logs quickly |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
the --- is supposed to be for that |
| 18:49 |
pgimeno |
it's bigger and more prominent |
| 18:49 |
pgimeno |
easier to catch if you're paging quickly |
| 19:03 |
sfan5 |
do we want to use catch2 for unittests in the future? |
| 19:03 |
nrz |
lhofhansl wow god rays, that sounds amazing, if we have water reflection after it'll be nice |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> the later is already sorta done |
| 19:04 |
nrz |
sfan5, what do we gain using catch2 instead of current internal framework ? |
| 19:04 |
nrz |
i'd say if it's a popular framework and license compatible with us, go ahead |
| 19:05 |
sfan5 |
I don't know, I am asking due to 13609 |
| 19:05 |
sfan5 |
the PR only makes sense if we are open to using catch2 for everything in the future |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I created an issue #13610 where I presented my case for it. |
| 19:06 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13610 -- Migrate unit tests to Catch2 framework. |
| 19:08 |
nrz |
ah catch2 is already used by MT, i missed that part, then... the gain is just uniformization then |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
for what it's worth i like catch2, i've used it in other projects |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
but i wasn't the one who added it to MT |
| 19:09 |
nrz |
i hope at a moment C++ will have modules & unittesting in the STL but it sound to be lost, C++ commitee is a bit bloated by their interia |
| 19:09 |
nrz |
inertia |
| 19:09 |
nrz |
sfan5, i'd say why not, but we should make a plan to use the same way everywhere after , if we decide to move forward on this |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> GTest is also popular, but I have a feeling maybe the licensing is not as friendly since it's Google. And it would be a completely new dependency, whereas we already use Catch2 for benchmarking. |
| 19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> The C++ commitee is considering adding unittesting support to the STL? Interesting. |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Bing can't find anything about that. Is there a proposol for it somewhere? |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> proposal* |
| 20:43 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> #13875 |
| 20:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13875 -- Remove Minetest ASCII art at launch by Zughy |
| 20:45 |
ROllerozxa |
heh brilliant, controversial label |
| 20:46 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Looks like I'm a living magnet for drama |
| 20:46 |
erle |
it can be both trivial and controversial though |
| 20:48 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> and of course I worked on the PR missing the discussion after localhost ffmpeg suggestion |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Consider: Make the ASCII art a configuration option |
| 20:50 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> enum: none, one line, expanded, one line colorised and expanded colorised |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Theres a colored version? |
| 20:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> oh no, what have I done |
| 20:51 |
ROllerozxa |
oh my god please do not add a configuration option for something as miniscule as console ASCII art, either keep it or remove |
| 20:51 |
ROllerozxa |
it |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> who cares |
| 20:51 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> (I think they were ironic) |
| 20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> I just think a simple on or off would be faster than bikeshedding this |
| 20:52 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> ..oh, you were serious. |
| 20:52 |
ROllerozxa |
the fastest would be to keep it and consider the fact it messes up in particular terminals to be wontfix |
| 20:52 |
erle |
better features have been axed for less |
| 20:53 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> but you should also consider that, if we change name, someone will have to redo it |
| 20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> It was generated |
| 20:53 |
ROllerozxa |
oh no, someone has to go onto patorjk and regenerate it... |
| 20:54 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> that I didn't know, there's no need to use sarcasm |
| 20:54 |
ROllerozxa |
well I'm unsure what ASCII font it uses, though, so that would need to be figured out |
| 20:54 |
erle |
zughy do you know about figlet(1)? you can use it to make such logos. http://www.figlet.org/ |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Apparently people exist that like the ascii art, so a simple config option to disable it to fix the --terminal render issue would be the best of both worlds |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> and trivial |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> https://patorjk.com/software/taag/#p=display&f=Graffiti&t=minetest |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Mind, the default generated version has some stupidities that I fixed, but that is trivial |
| 20:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Well, you know what? I've spent 30 minutes on that PR (20 minutes just to understand how to make the text fancy/useful). Considering the debate is already creating, I'm just gonna close the PR so people can focus on more important things |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> haha |
| 20:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> done, please back to discuss on godrays, lagging particles, MTG ruining the user first impression and the like. I'm not sarcastic |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> closing the PR over a debate? thats a first :^) |
| 20:57 |
erle |
what is a godray? |
| 20:57 |
erle |
PR? |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> sunshine through dust |
| 20:57 |
erle |
does the thing have a PR and screenshot? |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> no idea |
| 20:58 |
erle |
well lhofhansl is not here rn |
| 20:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> actually, since we're so talkative. Thoughts on #13874? |
| 20:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13874 -- Too many open issues |
| 20:59 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> >some projects with over 10k issues be like |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> It is worth noting that over a third of the open bugs are audiovisual issues. And we just lost our graphics dev (again) |
| 21:02 |
ROllerozxa |
I hope legitimate issues won't be closed just to deflate the issue count |
| 21:02 |
erle |
zughy there are a number of approaches to reduce open issues. some projects (like GNOME) go through all issues of a component after it has been refactored and close all issues related to it. some projects have stale bots. both lead to more work, not less. for example, microsoft's stale bot has closed at least 3 isses asking for ed25519 support (the standard key algorithm for openssh) that users opened since 2019. |
| 21:02 |
ROllerozxa |
the issue is not that there are a lot of open issues, the issue is that realistically there's not enough persons working on the engine to fix them all |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> ^ |
| 21:03 |
erle |
what ROllerozxa says |
| 21:03 |
sfan5 |
I PR'd a better fix |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> sweet |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
I unfortunately don't have a good suggestion how to deal with so many open issues |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
closing valid problems is obviously not a workable solution |
| 21:10 |
sfan5 |
Minetest could be very good if it had lots of man hours thrown at it |
| 21:10 |
sfan5 |
but alas that's not where we are |
| 21:11 |
erle |
in my opinion mozilla conclusively proved that merely having open issues is not a problem, unless people are afraid of big numbers. mozilla has bugs that get fixed after 8 or 13 or 18 years. |
| 21:12 |
erle |
zughy is there an underlying issue, does having many open issues the triaging more difficult maybe? |
| 21:21 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Nah, you just label new things and ignote the rest, mostly |
| 21:21 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> *ignore |
| 21:22 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> As for attracting more contributors, if more people could dig up content for the blog, that would be helpful |
| 21:22 |
sfan5 |
that may be correct but what's your point? |
| 21:23 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> Then from time to time you check "possible close" issues and the like, hoping you can actually close something |
| 21:24 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> greenxenith: the blog is kinda dead at the moment, even there we need more contributors |
| 21:24 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> People other than MisterE can write posts (myself, rubenwardy), its just a matter of finding content |
| 21:26 |
erle |
greenxenith i did submit content for the blog and i have no idea, do you need more? i thought it was a monthly thing. no longer? |
| 21:26 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> MisterE is the main one writing posts, so if he doesnt get to it, it extends to encompass however many months get missed |
| 21:26 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> I think we have enough stuff from august, mostly just need stuff for september |
| 21:31 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Ive sent MisterE a message about current progress, if he cant get to it ill try writing the post |
| 21:32 |
[MTMatrix] |
<Zughy> pretty sure rubenwardy should not be involved in the blog, as he's already busy in many other engine aspects, and I don't want to see the guy burning out |
| 21:32 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> I just said he can, not that he does |
| 21:36 |
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| 21:42 |
ROllerozxa |
throwing a thought out there, since a comment on the issue tracker reminded me that minetest's updating UX is still awful on windows because it's distributed as a RUN_IN_PLACE=1 build in a .zip archive. I know there is the WIX installer, but it requires MSVC and the official builds use MinGW, so could we compromise by shipping official RUN_IN_PLACE=0 builds in a .zip file that save user data in AppData instead? separating user |
| 21:42 |
ROllerozxa |
and share data would make it easier to update by just throwing away the old install while the user data stays intact in AppData, even if it's not distributed as an installer |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> sfan5, I appreciate your recognition of the reality that we just don't have enough man hours to do everything we want to. Thank you for everything you do even with your limited time. |
| 21:44 |
erle |
ROllerozxa you would need an update strategy as well for that. does an issue exist? |
| 21:45 |
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| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Zughy, if you're running out of things to triage, you could always remove the Rebase Needed label from my Catch2 PR. 😉 |
| 21:46 |
sfan5 |
ROllerozxa: i agree in principle but that has the chance to confuse people more |
| 21:46 |
sfan5 |
if we're changing this anyway we should also get rid of the need to extract the ZIP, find 'bin' and click on some random executable |
| 21:47 |
ROllerozxa |
yes that's fair |
| 21:48 |
sfan5 |
I was thinking perhaps instead of an installer we could NIH some sort of self-extracting executable that 1) uses RUN_IN_PLACE=0 and 2) also hides the actual files somewhere else in %appdata% where people don't see them |
| 21:48 |
sfan5 |
alternatively we could see if WIX can me made to work on Linux/MinGW |
| 21:49 |
sfan5 |
[NIH solution] that way you'd get 1) upgradeability 2) one-click launch 3) bare files are hidden from users |
| 21:51 |
sfan5 |
(the distributed files would go to e.g. %appdata%/minetest-bin/5.8.0/ while path_user is %appdata%/minetest as usual) |
| 21:52 |
erle |
i wonder, does anyone here use windows and this package manager? https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/minetest |
| 21:53 |
ROllerozxa |
I believe CPack supports generating NSIS installers, which would work when building with MinGW |
| 22:02 |
ROllerozxa |
erle: chocolatey is neat but rather niche. Microsoft even has their own "package manager" (glorified installer executable downloader) for windows called winget |
| 22:04 |
ROllerozxa |
it can't exactly perform magic with the windows environment but it's a slightly more ergonomic way of installing things without going out and searching for downloads yourself |
| 22:04 |
erle |
ROllerozxa oh yeah i remember lol https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/28/21272964/microsoft-winget-windows-package-manager-appget-copied |
| 22:05 |
ROllerozxa |
haha yeah |
| 22:05 |
erle |
well the question would be if they have figured out the “keep your worlds and savegames” issue |
| 22:07 |
ROllerozxa |
well choco's minetest install script just downloads the official portable minetest builds, unzips it and makes a start menu shortcut for it |
| 22:08 |
ROllerozxa |
(I think you can tell it's generally designed for proprietary software only shipped in binary form hehe) |
| 22:10 |
ROllerozxa |
anyways, bit derailed from the original topic. CPack's NSIS generator is worth looking into as an alternative to WIX |
| 22:11 |
erle |
ROllerozxa that sounds like something you could write into an issue |
| 22:16 |
ROllerozxa |
yes. maybe someone does it while I'm asleep or I do it tomorrow. either way I'm willing to look into it myself to see if it would work |
| 22:32 |
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