| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:30 |
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| 00:36 |
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| 01:26 |
cfnblx |
So how can I apply to join the core dev team? |
| 01:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> read https://dev.minetest.net/Organisation |
| 01:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> tldr: contribute (and get merged) prs to the org, get recommended to c55, get him to actually bring it up here, and then approval/dimissed |
| 01:34 |
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| 02:17 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 06:07 |
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| 07:39 |
nrz_ |
cfnblx You should have some pr merged and trust from coredev, then we will propose you |
| 08:47 |
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| 09:05 |
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| 09:19 |
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| 09:22 |
Zughy[m] |
Talking about core devs, how about NumberZero? |
| 09:23 |
Zughy[m] |
PRs are increasing, MT definitely needs someone else to invert the trend |
| 09:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I don't think the (X, Y) index is wasteful. What's wasteful is that the Y isn't made use of currently. |
| 09:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> It is 100% reasonable to use a (name, attr) index for player meta. What's unreasonable is that we completely flush player meta when we save a player, only to then completely reinsert it, rather than updating only the changed fields. |
| 09:28 |
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| 09:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This is about as bad as using a single text file for each player and rewriting said file every map save interval. |
| 09:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This is database abuse. |
| 09:30 |
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| 09:35 |
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| 09:56 |
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| 10:24 |
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| 11:14 |
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| 11:34 |
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| 13:50 |
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| 13:52 |
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| 14:24 |
Jon[m]1 |
It seems funny to need to trust in someone when it's easy enough to just not give goofy permissions seeing as git is decentralized |
| 14:24 |
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| 14:25 |
Jon[m]1 |
It makes sense to have a fork of Mt that just merges in PRs to test out and have a more experimental build |
| 14:26 |
Jon[m]1 |
I may look into this, but I need to learn how to build Mt from source first |
| 15:35 |
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| 15:47 |
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| 16:10 |
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| 16:31 |
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| 16:32 |
Zughy[m] |
Some dude were telling me that MT is open source and not free software because of what it says in the website. Hence https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io/pull/273 |
| 16:32 |
Zughy[m] |
*was telling |
| 16:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> This is why we use terms like FOSS |
| 16:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ideally it would be nice to have a terms that implies that MT does both but doesn't necessarily require you to align with any particular ideological agenda to use it without issue. |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> GNU/Minetest |
| 16:38 |
Zughy[m] |
however you are aligning in the very moment you choose the words to use. Saying "open source", "FOSS" or "free software" say something about the project anyway |
| 16:39 |
Zughy[m] |
also, fuck IRC, I can't even edit mistakes without annoying people, why are we even using an obsolete technology anyway? |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> we invite you to minetest discord |
| 16:41 |
Zughy[m] |
I'm from Matrix, which allows edits and that, contrary to Discord, is not a hypocrite platform saying "We <3 open source", when it's clear to me that they're just washing their image |
| 16:41 |
Zughy[m] |
the point is, if I edit a message, they receive the whole message again with the edit |
| 16:42 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> That would have to do with the relay software. Do you have an idea for an alternative way for the relay to handle edits? |
| 16:44 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> the solution is to just not use edits in the IRC channel but follow IRC practices for correcting yourself |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I thought matrix natively connected to irc, no relays involved |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Oh, interesting, that could be. |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> It does not |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> However ther is a bridge made by the Martrix organisation |
| 16:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> *Matrix |
| 16:49 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> admittedly chatting from discord won't net you any improvements from matrix since IRC will be the lowest common denominator. edits on discord don't even show up over the bridge and replies won't either |
| 16:51 |
Zughy[m] |
true ROllerozxa, but I don't think it's a valid reason to not upgrade the technology |
| 16:53 |
Zughy[m] |
MT is the only project I know that is still on IRC as the main place where to chat with devs (maybe because I'm not into the linux rabbit hole? Idk) |
| 16:55 |
Zughy[m] |
which, like it or not, acts as a barrier for new players and wannabe devs |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We HAVE upgraded the technology. We have Matrix AND Discord. |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> The IRCs are both bridged to both Matrix and Discord so I don't see how that's a barrier? |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> That just doesn't cause IRC to stop being a thing. |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IRC will probably never die, no matter how much nearly everyone thinks it should. https://xkcd.com/1782/ |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Over on Discord we have an explicit barrier (have to chat in Discord-only channels a bit first) to prevent new people making mess in the IRC channels |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> True. Though clearly it doesn't stop us from having this #minetest conversation in #minetest-dev of course 🤔 |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> heh woops |
| 16:59 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> is that unusual? |
| 16:59 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> whatever channel you are in becoming general+programming+other stuff. |
| 17:02 |
Zughy[m] |
I'll rephrase, you're right: the community is more scattered than it should. I'm on Matrix and I know that if I want to talk with people on IRC and Discord, I have to write either in here or in #minetest. I understand you can't merge Discord and Matrix together if you want to leave some room isolated, but you could merge at least Matrix and IRC, dropping the latter. On IRC you can't post pictures, react, answer to a previous message, is |
| 17:02 |
Zughy[m] |
UX wise more limited. My two cents |
| 17:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IRC is natively more limited, if you stick to a classic client, but there are clients like TheLounge that add a lot of the modern UX stuff on top, like previews/embeds (from posted URLs), good mobile and multi-device support, etc. For accessing MT IRC, TheLounge is actually pretty comparable for me to Discord, and I only happen to use Discord more because I tend to use Discord to access the Discord-only stuff already. |
| 17:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Sticking with least-common-denominator feature sets is also not bad because it makes it easier to connect arbitrary future things without worrying about feature parity issues, and to some degree, it helps keep focused on discussion and avoids the temptation of playing silly games using those features. |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't like the community scatteredness either, but a lot of that is social/political issues rather than technological, i.e. people sticking their nose up at some protocol or platform and thinking themselves better than the people who use it. The proprietary nature of Discord is actually made worse by people excluding its users from full participation in the more-free parts of the community. |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
"free software" isn't as commonly used as "open source" |
| 17:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I kind of like the term FOSS because it sort of discourages you from taking any of its component words at face value. |
| 17:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Also, I think that while Free and Open have significant overlap, there are some fringe areas that don't overlap, and it's worth pointing out the value of being in that overlap area. |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
I'd suggest "free and open source". The text could also be rephrased to put other benefits first, like easy Lua scripting or the platform-ness |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
this needs to be some dense text, Minetest refuses to be described in two short sentences |
| 17:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Tbh I'd really ideally like to say something like "100% free and open source", to differentiate it from projects that like to claim that but are actually freemium and you only get a "community edition" that lacks a lot of features that are buried in proprietary extensions. Unfortunately whether stuff on CDB count as part of that 100% may make a difference... |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
I think Minetest is best described using Interpretive dance |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's fair to say the engine, and most/all first-party projects, are 100% free and open source, in substance and in spirit. Stuff you can find on CDB though can sometimes be rather un-free. |
| 17:16 |
Zughy[m] |
<rubenwardy> ""free software" isn't as..." <- I know ruben, it's the term used in the industry. However it's not a reason to not use the other |
| 17:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The biggest problem with term Free Software has always been people who confuse it with "freeware" and use the terms interchangeably. |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
with open source software, people confuse it with source available |
| 17:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A lot of effort has gone into "reclaiming" the term but it never seemed like it got results. |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
both are shitty terms, it's just that 'open source' is more common and the misunderstood version is closer to the actual meaning |
| 17:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's also that source-available masquerading as open source is not nearly as pervasive as the freeware / free software confusion. |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The confusion doesn't run in the same direction. If you say "open source", people are more likely to understand correctly what you mean, and just confuse other source-available software as being open-source. If you say "free software" then people are more likely to confuse it with freeware. |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:24 |
nrz_ |
discord allow message edition, it's IRC which doesn't allow |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Frankly I think IRC got it right, by requiring you to own up to your mistakes as compensation for ensuring that nobody can pull dependencies out from you. When you reply to a message on IRC, you can be sure that your reply will always be in the context of the message against which it was written. |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> matrix shows edit history |
| 17:29 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> This is way off topic, but I don't think IRC ever should go away |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> Nothing in life is free. Why is Discord free? Don't tell me all their expenses are paid by Nitro subscriptions. They have to be sellling users out one way or another. Either way, I will forever avoid dependence on any "big brother" entity. |
| 17:32 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> I can fire up an IRC server at-will and go about my totally uncensored business as I see fit without anyone monitoring my chat, selling my data, or whatever. "But, features, features, features!" -- Features cost money. Why are we getting it for free? Nothing is free. If you're not paying for it, it's because you're not the consumer, you're the product. |
| 18:01 |
lhofhansl |
Reminder: #13250 |
| 18:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13250 -- Scale culler steps proportionally to the mesh sizes by x2048 |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> @ROllerozxa for MariaDB could you add this to wiki: https://mariadb.com/downloads/connectors/ |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> Also, asking again -- MariaDB Connector C++ is licensed LGPL v2.1 same as Minetest. Can I just include it in the project so people don't have to go hunt it down? |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:37 |
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| 18:39 |
Krock |
objectively speaking there's no reason against the inclusion |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<caffeinatedblocks> It would be nice not only for that reason, but also to lock it in at a specific version. Any future updates which may depend on a newer version could therefore include that specific version. |
| 18:40 |
Krock |
but it's not uncommon for PRs to stall or get abandoned due to suboptimal implementation or unsolved issues |
| 18:41 |
Krock |
"good" examples for that are such that have "Adoption needed" labels (closed ones) |
| 18:53 |
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