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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2022-07-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:44 MTDiscord <Jordach> made an interesting discovery related to perlin noise in the engine
02:53 MTDiscord <Jordach> 2d noise has near zero impact on speed
02:54 MTDiscord <Jordach> the Z/X/Y loop to write to the C++ LVM takes approximately 4ms
02:56 MTDiscord <Jordach> in my own mapgen
02:57 MTDiscord <Jordach> 6 2d noise sources takes about ~6ms on my system
02:57 MTDiscord <Jordach> adding 2-3 3d sources whacks that up nearly tenfold
02:57 MTDiscord <Jordach> as in it has the effective weight of 6 2d noise sources
02:59 MTDiscord <Jordach> taking closer to 20ms for just two of them
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04:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> could you get a pseudo 3d noise by lerp - ing 3 2d noises, one for each plane? That would be 1/2 as expensinve then.
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14:07 sfan5 how are the chances for a second approval on #7629?
14:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7629 -- Run Minetest update checker on startup by SmallJoker
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14:28 kilbith if MT makes it to Steam someday, this update checker might conflict with their own I guess
14:35 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> it's completely disabled on Android right?
14:36 rubenwardy it's pretty much only useful on Windows
14:36 rubenwardy and MacOS. Forgot that existed
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14:59 MTDiscord <MisterE> The benefit of c++ mapgen is that it is a separate thread, right? So, would it be useful to have a c++ mapgen called ”script” which runs calls a mapscript.lua which provides the mapgen logic? It would be passed the voxelmanip and would return the map data. Would that be faster than runtime lua mapgen, since it is being called from the c++ thread? sfan5 , @grug brained modder
15:00 MTDiscord <Jordach> no, that'd still have data type conversion latency worse than native datatypes
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15:04 rubenwardy MisterE: sfan5 is working on a multithreaded mapgen API. You wouldn't need a separate file, it would copy the function into the mapgen thread like the async API
15:04 MTDiscord <MisterE> Oh, we need that
15:07 MTDiscord <MisterE> That would still be slower than c++ because of the datatype conversions, right?
15:07 erle rubenwardy could it improve the case that kay27 calls the “chunk-in-shell-grinder” where you gave to emerge a gigantic area to be sure that mapgen does not overwrite it later on?
15:08 erle s/gave/have/
15:08 rubenwardy no
15:08 MTDiscord <MisterE> No to who
15:08 erle hehe
15:08 rubenwardy erle
15:08 rubenwardy MisterE: it will be slower than C++ more because of the copying than the conversions
15:09 MTDiscord <MisterE> Could the lua be compiled first, and be as fart a c++?
15:09 erle MisterE[m] to be fair, all the lua mapgen stuff i have seen that was really slow so far was doing something stupid, e.g. going accidentally quadratic or so
15:09 rubenwardy erle: overgeneration means that mapgen will write into unloaded neighbour mapblocks for things like caves. Pretty sure it only does this to not use map generated areas
15:09 rubenwardy MisterE: no, it can't
15:09 rubenwardy MisterE: but the speed of Lua matters a lot less when it's in another thread
15:10 MTDiscord <MisterE> Blah, we need fart landscapes
15:10 erle MisterE[m] even if it could, the amount of reasoning you'd have to do on lua to get it fast is already contained in luajit AFAIK
15:10 MTDiscord <MisterE> Good to know ruben
15:12 erle and last i checked, luaJIT was the kind of software where you have only a handful of people that are experts on it and some companies have difficulties paying them large sums of money to meaningfully improve luaJIT because other companies are already paying those people comparable or more money
15:13 erle MisterE[m] if you have excessively slow mapgen code, putting it on a separate thread is basically giving up on it. not saying threads are not useful, but with synchronous code it really hurts if it is slow, because you notice it a lot.
15:16 MTDiscord <MisterE> erle. #minetest
15:40 sfan5 copying memory isn't all that slow
15:40 sfan5 if done correctly I wouldn't say lua is too slow for mapgen, the main issue is just right now it blocks the main thread
15:41 rubenwardy slower but not slow
15:41 rubenwardy but yeah
15:41 rubenwardy you know what's slow? O(n^2) object collision and movement
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16:08 erle rubenwardy “dynamic shadows for every point light source and i put a lot of torches down” too maybe? ;)
16:09 erle though that may “only” be a linear increase
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19:02 sfan5 the reason I asked about #7629 earlier is because it'd take about 5 minutes to fix the problems that are left with it
19:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7629 -- Run Minetest update checker on startup by SmallJoker
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19:12 Krock the formspec scaling sucks. making it wider and taller shrinks it back again for some reason
19:12 Krock either that or I made a mistake when I tried last time
19:14 sfan5 something with real_coordinates?
19:23 Krock rebuilding to figure that out...
19:28 Krock I don't know what happened last time. resizing it works fine now. will update the PR
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19:49 Krock sfan5: am I seeing it correctly that HTTP fetch_sync is undocumented?
19:49 sfan5 could be
19:49 sfan5 but if it's a main menu api 🤷
19:50 Krock oh right! missed that point. it's indeed documented in the right file...
19:50 Krock I saw there's a timeout setting which could be used to avoid disturbing the clients on laggy connections
19:51 Krock s/clients/users/
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19:51 Krock so with a timeout of perhaps 2 seconds (fixed), this should be okay for a version checker?
19:52 Krock asking because I cannot figure out how `if not ui.childlist["maintab"].hidden then` is supposed to work. the main menu is already shown by the time the updater kicks in
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19:58 rubenwardy the main menu may be hidden by a dialog
19:58 erle Krock which timeout is this? i vaguely remember that you have a bunch of timeouts for HTTP: at the very least: DNS, TCP, HTTP and for each of them the timeout until a connection has to be established and the timeout until it is deemed stale
19:59 rubenwardy he's referring to a blocking request when starting up minetest
19:59 sfan5 it's about putting it in the result callback
19:59 sfan5 if the mainmenu is hidden by a dialog at that point, don't attempt to show the update message
19:59 Krock oh I see
20:00 erle how are TLS errors handled in the updater? think captive portal WLAN (hotel or airport). it better not crash.
20:01 erle i remember actually having been in a hotel where minetest crashed when connecting to cdb while connected to the wifi, but i did not have the clarity of mind to save the debug output :/
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20:40 sfan5 fyi macos CI is currently unavailable because github is sunsetting that https://github.blog/changelog/2022-07-20-github-actions-the-macos-10-15-actions-runner-image-is-being-deprecated-and-will-be-removed-by-8-30-22/
20:40 sfan5 it work again in time for release
20:40 sfan5 +will
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21:14 MisterE[m] <sfan5> "fyi macos CI is currently..." <- And gitlab's ci won't handle it?
21:14 MisterE[m] Oh
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